Chalkhills Digest Volume 11, Issue 40
Date: Tuesday, 2 August 2005
Chalkhills Digest, Volume 11, Number 40
Tuesday, 2 August 2005
Topics:
Compound Time
Slice My Bars
Simon says
RE: Nonsuch / Nonesuch / Pudenda - John Morrish posting
Mixing pop and politics, he asks me what the use is
FROM RINGO TO ZAPPA IN 4/4 TIME
If anybody's interested...
Re: Heavy
Steve Somerset article - (XTC/Dukes content!)
Announcing: www.PURPLEBURT.com
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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:28:12 -0400 From: Michael Kearns <mikearns@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Compound Time Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050728195501.00aa1210@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> At 06:20 PM 7/28/05 -0400, Dan Schmidt wrote: >In Soundgarden's song "Pretty Noose", there is a measure of five >eighth-note triplets (instead of the six you would expect to make the >beat line up again). In my opinion, the best way to notate this would >be to use a time signature of 5/12 for that measure. The alternative >would be to make a metric modulation into and out of a measure of 5/8, >but to me that makes it less clear what is going on. Hi Dan and Chalksters galore! The muso in me likes to chime in on these things.. with respectfulness towards those with differing ideas (and a plea for tolerance to those who don't know what the hey I'm blabbering on about anyway..) Unfortunately, I do not know the song in question, so I'm kind of winging it in terms of context. I am going to assume that this measure consisting solely of "triplets" is really a measure in compound time. Compound time always has a numerator divisible by three, e.g., 6/8, 6/4, 12/8, 15/8. (Denominators as far as I know need only fall within the range of common note values: 2, 4, 8, 16, 32..) The numerator in compound time conveys the numbers of beats per measure, as is true with simple time (numerator not divisible by three, e.g., 4/4, 5/4, 3/2, 11+5/32..) however in compound time you divide the numerator by three to derive the number of beats. Also, you multiply the denominator by three to determine the note value receiving the beat. Thus, a piece in 6/8 is not, as some may argue, a six beat measure with the eighth-note receiving the beat. (Such a measure might be metered as 4+2/8 or 2+4/8.) No, true 6/8 means that there are two (6 divided by 3) beats per measure, and the dotted eighth note receives the beat. The beat in compound time naturally subdivides back into three, so the term "triplet" would not apply here. (Oxford definition of triplet: "Group of 3 notes, or notes and rests, equal in time-value, written where a group of 2 notes is suggested by time-signature. Usually indicated by adding numeral 3 above each group.") Deep breath(!) So, I hold that your Soundgarden measure is (or may be) a measure of five dotted eight-note beats, thus 15/8. >It is true that I have never seen a non-power-of-2 denominator in any >actual written music. Nor I, thank Ozzy.. this stuff is brutal enough without added nonsense! XTC: Both Andy and Colin are rhythmically superior to this entire posting of mine! And Dave too, bless him! Mike Kearns
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:46:05 -0400 From: Michael Kearns <mikearns@sbcglobal.net> Subject: Slice My Bars Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050728203331.00aa0d40@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> At 06:52 PM 7/24/05 -0400, Ian wrote: >I like chiming in on music theory matters. Ian! Hello old friend. Good to hear your voice out here, and did I not see your name recently in the credits of a particularly excellent musical film on Showtime? >"Optimism's Flames" main riff is an offset phrase that resets every 3 >bars. ... of 4/4, or every 4 bars of 3/4. No matter how ya slice it, it's a cool effect. This is one case where, given the maddening regularity of it all, there is really two time signatures going on at once - polymetric - whereas a supposed "offset" favoring one sig. over the other invites needless complication, in notation and in performance. >I don't think musicians (myself included) think about one time sig >against another, but just notice an offset pattern. I was trying to >find a term for this, but found that polyrhythmic, polymetric, and >hemiola don't exactly apply here. Anyone have a term? Any of these terms might apply adequately depending on the specific context. Ian.. you rock, man! Still playing on your Green Guitar? :-) Mike Kearns mikearns@sbcglobal.net
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:54:01 +0200 From: jeffrey.thomas@bayercropscience.com Subject: Simon says Message-ID: <OFFB37AF80.F8348234-ONC125704D.00261283@bayer.de> Hi people of the collines de la craie, In #38, Simon wrote (in response to Aaron's admission in #36 that he was a "right-wing savage"): >Ah, it's just sweet pop music... I'm sure Andy would be pleased his music can penetrate the ear but his lyrics fail to penetrate the heart. What exactly are these people surmising from 'Dear God', 'Books are Burning', 'Beating Of Hearts', 'This World Over', 'Here Comes President Kill Again' and 'Melt The Guns', to name but a few examples? I would hope that Aaron would, in a case such as this, think along the lines of Voltaire in, while disagreeing with Andy's point of view, being prepared to defend to the death his right to say it. And that Andy would do the same for Aaron. So here, yes, Andy can be pleased that he has earned such respect from his listeners that they are prepared to hear views of his that are diametrically opposed to theirs, yet they retain their love for Andy and his music! I think anyone can respect and even admire another opinion, even if he absolutely disagrees with it. It's more the person presenting the views or the way the views are presented that can cause problems. I myself do not believe in the church in any of its forms, yet in my travels, I find few things more compelling than visiting religious sites, be they Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, "heathen", or whatever. I see no contradiction in that; they are historically interesting. In #39, Simon wrote again: >the logical choice to end the 'Nonsuch' album would have been the glorious 'End Of The Pier', since we were already at the sea-side in the preceding song, 'Bungalow'? It would have made a great 'Strawberry Fields / Penny Lane' combo. (I can almost imagine the view from the window including a pier off in the distance). Funny you should mention that. The book I just finished reading last week was "Last Orders" by Graham Swift. It's an excellent book -- Swift is a fantastic writer -- and the protagonists' "objective" in the story is getting to the end of the pier in Margate, where a bungalow had been bought. I had to think of the exact same two songs. Au revoir, Jeff
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:05:41 +0100 From: ningless@screaming.net Subject: RE: Nonsuch / Nonesuch / Pudenda - John Morrish posting Message-ID: <42E8ADED00006C70@mk-cpfrontend-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com> Why does everyone have to relate everything by XTC to sex? If Andy meant Nonsuch to mean Vagina, why didn't he just call it Vagina? He could have avoided all the Nonsuch/Nonesuch confusion at the same time. You'll be telling me the peacock feather on the front of Apple Venus Vol 1 is a thinly disguised wide open beaver, next. Regards, Jason Fox
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:54:38 +0100 (BST) From: Huw Davies <huwdavies1@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Mixing pop and politics, he asks me what the use is Message-ID: <20050729215438.95225.qmail@web26002.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > "Wayne Klein" wrote regarding 'I am the Walrus': > Although it was Lennon's idea to add the bit from "Macbeth". I'm going to delurk and be a bit pedantic here, but it was actually a performance of "King Lear" that Lennon added in. The discussion of XTC's politics and the use of their music by that right-wing radio host made me think that English Settlement is possibly XTC's most politicised album. There are a lot of songs with political themes on there: 'Ball and Chain', 'No Thugs in Our House', 'Melt the Guns', 'Leisure' and 'Fly on the Wall'. XTC don't do politics that often and for the most part this is probably a good thing. Mixing pop and politics is extremely difficult to do well. Huw Davies
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 00:19:40 +0100 From: <cornwallis@cwctv.net> Subject: FROM RINGO TO ZAPPA IN 4/4 TIME Message-ID: <0d62a4019231d75DTVMAIL9@smtp.cwctv.net> AS ANDY SAID,WHY PIGEONHOLE EVERYTHING? THIS IS POP.OH AND NONSUCH IS STILL THE BEST ALBUM TO DATE THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL DRUMMING BY DAVE MATTACKS.(TERRY WILL ALWAYS BE MISSED). kind regards, DAVE BANCROFT
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:28:08 -0700 From: "dr. beat" <greg@drbeat.com> Subject: If anybody's interested... Message-ID: <20050731023153.C945B1C84E@mail.sinewave.com> chalkhillians... Cleaning out some of the old stuff lying about, if anyone is interested in these items email me. First come, first served, trades OK. I'm in Northern California... Oranges & Lemons Same running order as U.S. release on 3 mini discs (they play in standard CD drives), with box. Radios In Motion CD of early live recordings from NYC (1980, 16 tracks) and a handful of tracks from British television. dr. beat greg@drbeat.com
------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 22:30:45 -0400 From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <cauldron@together.net> Subject: Re: Heavy Message-ID: <a06110400bf133937ae8a@[165.121.145.251]> At 6:20 PM -0400 7/28/05, Kevin wrote: >Yikes, I'm sorry to the other listers that I've gone on so obsessively >about Zappa material, but hey, I know that Andy Partridge has mentioned >Frank Zappa as one of his musical influences, along with the Bonzo Dog Band >and Judee Sill and Brian Wilson and...hey, wasn't that Iron Butterfly whose >spirit he was dredging up on the extraordinary title tune to 25 O'CLOCK? >Loved the stereophonic noodling with the instrumental break in that track. I don't hear Iron Butterfly at all, it's The Electric Prunes "I Had Too Much To Dream Last Night" sort of sideways, though Andy and co. may have been thinking Iron Butterfly in the instrumental break.
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:29:55 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Culnane <paulculnane@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Steve Somerset article - (XTC/Dukes content!) Message-ID: <20050801072955.63359.qmail@web86904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello folks Steve Somerset is an interesting (and very nice) guy. He has certain XTC connections. He spoke with me and gave some fascinating info of his own free will. Steve provided some great pictures too, to illustrate the piece. John Relph has kindly allowed some bandwith on Chalkhills, so that you, fellow fans, can enjoy this article, and share in Steve's magical odyssey (including some hitherto undisclosed XTC and Dukes Of Stratosphear stuff, yeah!!!). We hope you enjoy it! All you gotta do is follow this link: http://chalkhills.org/articles/PCSteveSomerset05.html Brought to you by ICE Productions. Thanks! Paul
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 19:34:48 -0400 From: Mitch Friedman <mitchf@mindspring.com> Subject: Announcing: www.PURPLEBURT.com Message-ID: <dfaeaac82f833cc9b40605f0e58f4473@mindspring.com> Hi again, I'll keep this one short . . . I've just launched a brand new web site for my brand new family-style cd PURPLE BURT. You can find it at http://www.purpleburt.com For those of you who already have the cd, if you head to this new site you will find some even newer info and characters that aren't on the album. There is also a messageboard which functions as both a guestbook, and a place where kids can ask Purple Burt questions (which he will answer personally!) Another fun thing is a page on which kids can color in a few of the illustrations right on the computer, and also download printable versions of many of the others that they can then color in any way they like. You can also listen to the whole cd while reading the lyrics and looking at the artwork, read the many reviews it has so far received, and buy a copy if you are so inclined. Plus lots more! In the near future I will be adding some new songs and a few other surprises. Sign up on my bio page if you want to be notified when any new material gets posted. I hope you and your kids and your kids' friends enjoy it! ;-) Mitch p.s. If this email has arrived in error, or is simply unwanted, please excuse the interruption.
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