Chalkhills Digest Volume 8, Issue 65
Date: Friday, 6 December 2002
Chalkhills Digest, Volume 8, Number 65
Friday, 6 December 2002
Topics:
What I've Been Listening To
Aches to See
Just for the Sake of Argument
Pickety Gurning Dennis Partridge List
1984
Don Kirshner
What are we listening to, you ask?
XTC sighting
Re: (not) going APE
paper and iron
Mummer a Stunner
Dutch 'news'
Olof's POV and carrots
Who Will Buy?
Bootlegs and Beatles
The price of love
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Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7d (John Relph <relph@tmbg.org>).
Big money selling you stuff that you really do not need.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:13:49 -0500 From: "Molly, the New Wave Queen" <mollyfa0000@worldnet.att.net> Subject: What I've Been Listening To Message-ID: <000d01c29b3a$cb437780$5304590c@vogmudet> Organization: AT&T Worldnet I've been mainly listening to a lot of compilation albums (Sounds of the Seventies and Modern Rock), but I've gotten into this wonderful female singer, Beth Gibbons. She's the lead singer of the techno group, Portishead. It's hard to describe her voice, but it has a Billie Holideayesque quality to it. Her music is very haunting and beautiful. Her album with Rustin' Man (AKA Paul Webb of the 80s band Talk Talk) "Out of Season" would be a very good Christmas gift for those who love interesting sounding music. Molly
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 00:06:55 -0500 From: Don & Sue <DonSueP@attbi.com> Subject: Aches to See Message-ID: <3DED8D6F.C821D05D@attbi.com> Been saving this one for a long time, now it's yours free . . . "Aches to See" has to be the best XTC tribute band name, right? It's awkward, perfect poetry. I too still get chills from Easter Theatre, but not as powerfully as I've been getting them from Church of Women. That "pathetic" guitar intro - as Andy described - feels like someone strumming on my solar plexus. How can such a simple sound affect me so? From there the lyrics take over which have meaning on at least three levels, and all of them resonate. Move over Waterloo Sunset . . . Travis Schulz is desperate for some 'hills music recommendations, and I can relate. For four years almost all I've done is take, take, take. I swear I've picked up close to a hundred albums based solely on the say-so of you crazy mo-fo's. It's time I gave something back to the community! Well, Travis, I doubt I can help you much on the Jazz front; the 'hills say Miles Davis 'Kind of Blue' is all that, but I was driven nearly insane by that relentless high-hat going tish...ti-ti-tish...ti-ti-tish... for the first half an hour. It so happens I played this the same day as another recommendation: Richard Thompson "Shoot out the Lights" which I loved until sudddenly his wife, *Linda McCartney*, started singing! OK, so now that I've stirred up a hornets nest, and lost any credibility I may have had, let me describe a few of the gems for which I'm especially grateful: Guided by Voices hardest rocking album ever "Universal Truths and Cycles", Power-Pop-Punk's glorious return in A's "Hi-Fi Serious", The Strokes "Is this it?" proving an album that was overhyped can somehow end up underrated, The Flaming Lips' "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots" is every bit as good as advertised, many here pushed Elliott Smith's "XO" and I put it off as long as I could until o-my-god it's gorgeous, Super Furry Animals proved with last year's "Rings Around the World" that the second best pop band in the world is still improving! Other/deeper/older bands that my fellow XTC geeks here helped me 'discover' include: Captain Beefheart, The Buzzcocks, Pere Ubu, Can, Big Star, Cardiacs, Belle and Sebastian, Supergrass and Ween. OK that's enough, long lists are dull. But these are all important to me, and I never got a chance to thank you all!! "Like us men, Like us men, Will they ever like us men? Men have thorns around their minds." (Get it? As in crown of thorns from that other patriarchical religion? Ah, never mind.) Later, Don Parker
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:46:12 EST From: Hbsherwood@aol.com Subject: Just for the Sake of Argument Message-ID: <19e.cf4df9b.2b1efeb4@aol.com> >Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:56:45 +0000 (GMT) >From: Bert Millichip <juan_the_man2002@yahoo.co.uk> >Subject: Humbug! >I went to yourdictionary.com (appropriately enough) >and found the following definition of "sell". The >emphasis is mine [gee, and here's me thinking the >emphasis was Carmen Miranda's]: > >"To exchange or deliver for money ***or its >equivalent***... To give up or surrender in exchange >for a price ****or reward***." > >A "trade" is simply a "sale" but using pirated CDs as >a substitute for legal tender. You are still profiting >from somebody else's art, and the artist is not >getting any share of that profit. Hey Bertie-o: I've got a few other words you might look up at YourDictionary.com: Complete (http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/c/c0529400.html, sense 4) fucking (http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/f/f0349500.html) sophistry (http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/s/s0566400.html, sense 1) you (http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/y/y0026500.html) captious (http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/c/c0093700.html, sense 1) bunghole (http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/b/b0551300.html) It's fairly plain that you have a little problem with reading comprehension, so I've put together an audible version, to help you understand the concept a little better: http://members.aol.com/hbsherwood/edit.wav >An even greater piece of humbuggery was perpetrated by >our "new" friend Dr Pilpy. A person who, I know for a >fact, happens to work for one of the largest (not to >mention dodgiest, if recent reports are to be >believed) music/media mega-conglomerates on the >planet. Just fancy that! Why yes, just fancy that! A person capable of containing contradictory ideas in his head without exploding gooey puerile self-righteousness all over the landscape, giving everybody a dull, pounding headache and producing a general desire to throttle him! Fancy, as you say, that! (And why is that word "new" in quote marks up there? Is that some super-subtle form of orthographical sarcasm I'm missing?) >Reluctant though I am to debate business ethics with a >hypocrite who is a willing whore for corporate pimps, >I'll quickly demolish your main points: Astonishing feat, here: hilarious pomposity so huge it generates its own gravity field, mixed with comical bellicosity and a truly stunning lack of judgment. Did you attend a school to learn how to do this, or was it self-taught, in front of one of those funny mirrors that make you look bigger than you are? You know, strutting around like Benito Mussolini, chin jutting, nodding approval at all the imagined applause from your admiring crowds? At any rate, I guarantee you: you would never have said that to Dr. Pilpy's face. But in the unlikely event I'm wrong, and you actually do possess the stones to say that in meatspace, no jury in the world would convict Dr. Pilpy for smashing your fucking face in for you. So what exactly is the point, Bert? Do you get off on the _frisson_ of fancying yourself a "rebel"? Does it tickle your pussy to think you've managed to create such a deeply repellent online persona? Do you, you cardboard Mephistopheles, sleep better at night knowing you've managed to sew just a little more discord today, tortured a little more logic, crapped out a little more specious nonsense, made life just a little bit less pleasant? >Chalkhills legend Harrison Sherwood once said that >artists are 100% repsonsible for the contracts that >they sign, and I totally agree with him. (Hint for aspiring writers: When employing sarcasm, try to make sure you don't switch to sincerity halfway through the sentence. It confuses the hell out of your audience.) Funny thing, sweetcheeks, but at the time I said that you shrieked like a ruptured toy poodle for approximately 250 paragraphs trying to absolve Moby of any responsibility for any contracts he may have signed, ascribing any apparent malfeasance on his part to the very recording industry you are now suddenly passionately defending. [And I quote, from Digest 8-38: "I might expect such ignorance from a complete layman, but not from an XTC fan: you, of all people, should be well versed in the myriad ways that record companies shit on their artists." Yes, I suppose I should. How about you?] I accused Moby of voluntarily becoming more or less exactly what you accuse Dr. Pilpy of being -- a "willing whore for corporate pimps." At the time, you thought there could be no higher aspiration in the world. Funny how you'll latch on to whatever position is handy -- almost as if you had absolutely no actual convictions of your own, and were just arguing because it gives you the opportunity to sling crappy little insults at people from the safety of your own keyboard. I ask again, Bert: What's the point? Harrison "Besides the one on top of your head, I mean" Sherwood
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:26:46 -0000 From: Adrian Ransome <Adrian.Ransome@tsi-ltd.co.uk> Subject: Pickety Gurning Dennis Partridge List Message-ID: <497FEA72C392D3118AE700508B73117705AE9A4D@nt4server03.tsi-ltd.co.uk> Time for my once-yearly belch. Ted Harms wrote: "Anybody else surprised by the cost of the Fuzzy discs? Given what I assume is the 'demo' quality of the songs, I'm a bit shocked by the 10.21GBP" I'm not sure what sort of price CDs are in the Great White North, but ten quid is a pretty good price round these here parts, matey. Okay, you can go to your local Texaco filling station and pick up Pickety Witch's Greatest Hits for two pounds and maybe you could get the n-n-new G-G-G-Gareth G-G-Gates uh-uh-album from HMV whilst it's on offer for nine smackers, but ten quid is a *very* reasonable price for a new, non-chart CD. One final thought, young Teddington; an album of Andy Partridge demos is worth ten of most artist's complete back catalogues. On the other side of the planet, Jeff Crawford said: "so Robbie Williams gets obscenely rich without ever having written a song" I pains me to defend the gurning 'fat dancer of Take That', but to the best of my knowledge Mr Williams has co-written nearly all of his songs with the recently departed/sacked Guy Chambers. This is not co-wrote, Spice Girls-style where they changed one word of a lyric or one note of a melody in exchange for lucrative songwriting royalties; as I understand it, Robbie did the words and the other Guy did the music. The true extent of Robbie Williams' abilities will be revealed when his next record is released without any input from Chambers at all. Then again, with 80 million quid in the bank, he can hire anyone he likes. I can hear the telephone call now: "Hello? Is that Andy Partridge? This is Robbie Williams. ROBBIE WILLIAMS - Pop star, you may have heard of me? I did that song Angels? Rock DJ? ...Millennium? Er... I was in Take That? No, that's Mark Owen. No, that's Gary Barlow. Anyway, I just signed an eighty million pound record deal with EMI and I need a new co-writer and was wondering if you were interested. I really liked your Making Plans for Nigel single... Hello...? Hello..?". Speaking of co-writing (what a link!! I should be on the GMTV sofa instead of Eamonn Holmes) the Idea website recently reported that Andy was co-writing with Cathy Dennis again, this time the songs would be destined for some of the current boyband/girlband/manufactured "pop idol" style artists. I find this interesting as I'm naturally a huge admirer of Mr Partridge's songwriting abilities, I also quite enjoyed Ms Dennis' contributions to Kylie Minogue's "Fever" album, so the fruits of their collaboration would make for pretty interesting listening. However, would it still be interesting if it was filtered through a spiky-haired, vest-topped, headset-miked band of jerking pop sock puppets? So I ask you, the manifold inhabitants of the Hill - if you knew that Britney, 'N*Sync, Westlife, New Kids on the Block or the Bay City Rollers (whatever the young cats of today are digging) had released an album with some part-Partridge penned tunes on them, would you buy it? Ahhhh... Top ten albums this year: Interpol - Turn On the Bright Lights Alpinestars - White Noise National Velvet - Flesh Under Skin (boot) Future Sound of London - Cascades (thanks Deb!) Apples in Stereo - The Velocity of Sound Apples in Stereo - Sound Effects 92 - 00 xtc - COMC Boards of Canada - Geogaddi Yes - Close to the Edge Kylie - Fever Festive cheer, folks! adrian p.s. Am I the only one foreseeing a huge conflict looming in the not-too-distant future? One which will have massive repercussions on everyday life, maybe threatening life itself? No, I'm not talking Bush & his puppy dog Blair versus Saddam Hussein, I'm talking Bert v Dom. Duck and cover, citizens; protect and survive.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:21:06 EST
From: BessInMoonlight@aol.com
Subject: 1984
Message-ID: <18c.123b4f18.2b1f4d32@aol.com>
Hey Everyone!
I found something interesting a white ago in one of my fav books, 1984.
Although, this fact may already be widely known. There's a poem in the book
that goes, " Oranges and Lemons go the bells of St. Clemens, you owe me three
farthings say the bells of St. Martins..." (or something, the book is not in
my physical presence, so I'm wingin' it here). Oranges and Lemons ... that's
an XTC album! Now, I don't know if its named after the poem or the poem in
the book. However, I found this just as nice as the "Things Fall to Bits" and
"The Second Coming" connection. I like that XTC reads... (Or Andy Partridge
specifically.) Hurrah for books!
-B
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 07:48:14 -0500
From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <cauldron@together.net>
Subject: Don Kirshner
Message-ID: <BA1363BE.6593%cauldron@together.net>
on 12/2/02 2:42 PM, the unknown soldier wrote:
> 2) Of course the producers of music are responsible
> for its quality. However, by "producers" I tend to
> mean musicians and songwriters rather than suits in
> boardrooms. The suits can nurture good music, they can
> also bury it if they want to, but they sure as hell
> can't create it.
Exhibit A: Don Kirshner. Unable to control the flesh and blood Monkees,
who wanted to play their own instruments and write/choose their own songs,
he went off in a huff and gave the song The Monkees had turned down
flat("Sugar Sugar") to an entirely fictional band that existed only in a
cartoon, The Archies. Guess he figured cartoon characters couldn't get
uppity on him. Unfortunately The Monkees got some of their credibility as
musicians and creative control, but sales suffered after that, and they were
under the more direct control and creative whim of the show's producer,
which basically killed them as a band.(Exhibit B- Head- a fascinating
psychedelic mess with no commercial potential)Don Kirshner may have been a
philistine, creatively speaking, but he knew how to sell stuff.
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:46:30 -0500 From: "Michael Otero" <motero@cfl.rr.com> Subject: What are we listening to, you ask? Message-ID: <200212040846300340.0071F717@smtp-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, hi, hi I thought I'd de-lurk to reply to this one: Two categories for me, the first half being the newest releases by obvious, well-known sorts, in no particular order. I'm with you, Travis on 1 - Brainwashed. I find it a lovely parting gift from George. How 'bout Stuck Inside A Cloud? 2- Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers "The Last DJ." More of a stretch musically than TP has taken in a while, with a little ukelele lovingly thrown in in memory of the afore-mentioned Traveling Wilbury. Favorite track is Dreamville, with Have Love, Will Travel close behind. 3- The Pretenders "Loose Screw." I'm working on this one... several notches below, say, Last Of The Independents, but I've got a big soft spot for Ms. Hynde. 4- Springsteen's "The Rising." (is that screaming I hear?) As an ex-New Yorker, I really appreciate the attempt to put individual human faces on the events of that day last September. And, damn, what an incredible concert, by the way. My 4th Bruce show, and it completely blew the others (all fine shows) away. But I digress. 5- Santana "Shaman." I, for one, could do without all the guest stars of this album, as well as Supernatural. It's an effective marketing ploy, and gets him heard by many younger listeners who otherwise might miss out, but... But any Carlos is good Carlos. With apologies to the old "Clapton is God" school, I think if there's a supreme being wielding a guitar, it's Senor Santana. I especially like Foo Foo and Victory Is Won. In the department of (possibly) lesser-known stuff, I offer up five which may not be as new, but have not lost any of their sparkle to my ears. Probably the best-known, and newest, of this group is 6- Los Lobos "Good Morning Aztlan." This band is SO underappreciated, and they're consistantly wonderful. So many styles, all done fantastically well. Tough for me to select a favorite, but the one-two punch of the first two tracks, Done Gone Blue and Hearts Of Stone is pretty fine. 7- Shannon Curfman "Loud Guitars, Big Suspicions." This blues album is amazing, but it's twice as amazing when you remember Shannon was thirteen years old when she recorded it. I know she's got school and all, but I can't wait for her next release (this one came out in '98 or '99). Check out Playing With Fire. 8- Galactic "Late For The Future." These guys need to get a new studio album out, but they appear to be having too much damn fun out on the road doing their fine live shows. Not quite modern jazz, Travis, but a very funky New Orleans horn and guitar attack (not to forget the organ), with some drumming straight outta Mardi Gras. Maybe half a dozen vocal tracks, the rest instrumentals on which they really jam (in the older sense of inspired improvisation). 9- Southern Culture On The Skids "Liquored Up And Lacquered Down." Another band overdue for a studio release, another live act that's a LOT of fun. To explain SCOTS music, let's see: take roots rock, surf music, the B-52s, stir in some Grand Ol' Opry and some Tony Joe White... and maybe transfer the urban irony of David Byrne to a trailer park, and voila! I'd have to go with I Learned To Dance In Mississippi as my favorite here. Saving the absolute best for last, 10- Butterfly Jones "Napalm Springs." Two of the three members of Dada put this one out in the summer of 2000. The songs are wonderful, the guitar playing likewise. I truly believe XTC fans will appreciate this one, so give it a whirl. It's music that would be all over the radio if radio didn't create a partial vacuum with t doggedly optimistic lyrics (what ARE all these so-called bands so damned angry about, anyhow?), vocals in harmony, pretty melodies, variety in sound... what a concept. As an appetizer, I'd suggest Blue Roses and The Systematic Dumbing Down Of Terry Constance Jones. And, yes, I got to see them live, too (three, actually), and I wish I was back in Key West now at the shows. As regards XTC, I enjoy hearing the demos and such, but I really crave new "product" (what an awful word for music...). My first listening to Wasp Star was one of the more sublime musical experiences I've had. I want more moments like that. Anyway, I hope I haven't worn out my welcome. We now return you to your regularly scheduled digest. Take care, and peace. Mike Otero Fla-la land, US of A
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 07:36:36 -0800 From: "Damian Wise (Foulger)" <damian.wise@nlightphotonics.com> Subject: XTC sighting Message-ID: <3DEDB084.17471.3B42EDA@localhost> Dear all, Reporting XTC sightings seems en vogue right now, so here's mine, which is wrapped up in a band recommendation too. Jim's Big Ego (to be found at http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/11/jims_big_ego.html) have a song "Love everybody", which I'm sure is a tribute to "The Loving". Buried within are the lyrics: I get a dopio at the Carberry's Listen to your love tango and XTC. JBE are a phenominal band, see them live in Boston, or just download their music from MP3.com. They have the wit and catchiness to be compared with XTC - a marvellous band! Damian -- Damian Wise (Foulger) Ph.D. nLight Photonics
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:47:07 -0000 From: "Pledge" <Pledge7@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: (not) going APE Message-ID: <00d701c29bc5$90173da0$8849063e@oemcomputer> I'm just writing in reply to Ted Harms, who wrote this: ---- begin enclosure ---- Anybody else surprised by the cost of the Fuzzy discs? Given what I assume is the 'demo' quality of the songs, I'm a bit shocked by the 10.21GBP (which works out to about $25CDN/$16US). Not to mention that there'll be shipping charges and whatever the bank dings me for having the privilege of asking them to exchange my paper and iron. Yes, I'm well aware that some may argue that Andy is due great gobs of cash from getting screwed by Virgin, etc. etc. and I'm not saying he isn't due fair recompense. And yes, this is a free-market economy and nobody is holding a gun to my head forcing me to buy them, but I was hoping that they'd be a little bit more reasonably priced. It's just that, if this is the price for all the Fuzzy discs, I think it'll be for completionists only. ---- end enclosure ---- Asssuming i'm not the only UK based XTC fan left, I have to say I'm reasonably pleased by the price of the Warbles series. That's not to say i wouldn't like them to be cheaper, it is just that new release CDs over here happen to be anything up to 15 quid! In fact to get discs as cheaply as Andy is selling them I'd either have to hope they were stocked in clearance shops immmediately, available from an offshore web site or buy 2 CDs for #22 (which is a deal often used by the high street, big name retailers over here, thus ensuring i usually have to pay out for second Cd i don't necessarily want to make myself feel i've found a good price over 2 CDs!). Many times we've been assured the price of CDs isn't fixed, but the reality is that they are fixed over here. Hopefully Andy will make more from these discs as he is cutting out the high street stores, but, presumably he will still need to pay the boutique people. I'm also swayed by having a bootleg collection of 3 or maybe 4 live CDs, so i will be getting a hell of a lot of new material for my 10.21 GBP. In the meantime, you'll just have to forgive Andy for being based in a country where CDs are generally priced far too high... Cheers. Pledge
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 21:58:48 +0000 From: Mark Fisher <mark-fisher@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: paper and iron Message-ID: <BA142B17.8A32%mark-fisher@blueyonder.co.uk> > Anybody else surprised by the cost of the Fuzzy discs? > > Given what I assume is the 'demo' quality of the songs, I'm a bit shocked by > the 10.21GBP (which works out to about $25CDN/$16US). Not to mention that > there'll be shipping charges and whatever the bank dings me for having the > privilege of asking them to exchange my paper and iron. Ha! I suspect that what you've uncovered is the great disparity between CD prices in the UK and the rest of the world. Ten quid on this side of the Atlantic is - believe it or not - actually considered cheap. With any luck, Fuzzy Warbles will be distributed in Canada and you'll be able to buy it at a more sensible price. -- Mark
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 07:08:04 +0000 From: "Ralph Simpson DeMarco" <sawpit@hotmail.com> Subject: Mummer a Stunner Message-ID: <F104trgxO3JNgxr6qv800002531@hotmail.com> Dear Affiliated Members, Posting again sooner than I thought. First I must tip my uffington horse cap to Kerry Chicoine for her fine defense of Mummer and her interesting comparison to Skylarking and O&L. I was also a recent defender of Mummer (though not cited by Dom). I must say that folks who slag our boys should not be taken so seriously - no matter how clever they think they are. And Dom, I feel sorry for your inability to appreciate EVERY song on Mummer. Funny how the pain it brings you makes me so stupidly happy. XTC Cover Band Name? (As sir robin once said of crossing the bridge of death: "That's easy!") The Spinning Tops Brrring on the fuzzies... Ralph
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:59:56 +0100 From: "Andre Koning-de" <a.de.koning@bp.vnu.com> Subject: Dutch 'news' Message-ID: <OFB58A0509.35943808-ONC1256C86.002A4F7E@bp.vnu.com> Hi everyone, At the moment the dutch newspapers feature adverts from radiostation 3FM. They are compiling the 'verrukkelijke 715' list, to be broadcast at the end of the month (you can vote too: go to www.3fm.nl and search for the triangle with the yellow chick). Anyway, they draw attention with slogans like 'Cake or Meatloaf?', 'Bread or Beef?' and they caught my attention allright. Especially yesterday: the slogan was 'Chili Peppers or XTC?'. Yes, they mean the band: they have two songs ready for selection on the website. Now go vote, Andre
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:17:49 -0800
From: "Richard" <rjpa1@attbi.com>
Subject: Olof's POV and carrots
Message-ID: <00b201c29bc9$d598fc20$05081fac@verisity.com>
To Olof,
re: Industry "vs." Quality
Nicely stated. I agree that it is all a matter of perspective and place in
time!
I have plenty of music in my mind and collection that many Chalkhillbillies
might scoff but this music has to do with a placement in time. Just as an
example, for good or for bad (and I don't seek your opinion), The Allman
Brothers' "Brothers And Sisters" recording takes me back to some wonderful
early high school memories. I'm not saying it is good stuff (in fact some
may classify it as just the opposite in the shadow of Duane's death) but it
stands as an auditory bookmark in my unwritten biography and I'm comfortable
with that. Yes, I also have horrific audio counterparts like the summer of
75's(?) dimwit anthem, Sweet's "Ballroom Blitz."
========
Just so that this posting is not without "XTC" content, I will pass along a
topical joke (at least for those in most of the northern hemisphere)
imparted by Andy last week...
So...
Two snowmen are standing in a field.
One says to the other, "Do you smell carrots?"
========
As far as XTC cover band names... Brainiac's Daughter!
rpa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:17:57 -0600
From: "vee tube" <veetube@hotmail.com>
Subject: Who Will Buy?
Message-ID: <F127IWXJ9RRLhYyjRYv00012dab@hotmail.com>
"Anybody else surprised by the cost of the Fuzzy discs?"
No.
"Given what I assume is the 'demo' quality of the songs, I'm a bit shocked
by the 10.21GBP (which works out to about $25CDN/$16US). Not to mention
that there'll be shipping charges and whatever the bank dings me for having
the privilege of asking them to exchange my paper and iron."
First, your assumption that the "quality" of these songs
fall into the "demo" bin is woefully incorrect. In fact, many of
these songs are "A" tunes. Those of us who have been trading boots
and swapping MP3s can't wait to get these songs from the master
tapes.
Secondly, It's not uncommon at all for independent artists
to sell CDs at 'full retail' price through their websites. I have
paid these prices before to bands like Sugarplastic and the Bears.
Your banking problems are, of course, your own.
"Yes, I'm well aware that some may argue that Andy is due great gobs of cash
from getting screwed by Virgin, etc. etc. and I'm not saying he isn't due
fair recompense."
A Specious argument at best. We fans don't owe Andy anything.
We buy what we want and as long as we get what we pay for, we are
quite happy!
"And yes, this is a free-market economy and nobody is holding a gun to my
head forcing me to buy them, but I was hoping that they'd be a little bit
more reasonably priced."
Your understanding of the "free market economy" seems to be
tempered by your present pay scale. Hopefully in the near future
you'll get a raise and then these prices won't seem so high?
Me? I just went to the XTC website, debit card in hand, only
to find out that the Warbles were "Pre Order" only. C'mon Andy!
Let me order, NOW!
}---:)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:16:57 +0000 (GMT)
From: Bert Millichip <juan_the_man2002@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Bootlegs and Beatles
Message-ID: <20021206151657.24970.qmail@web80305.mail.yahoo.com>
"Wes Long" wrote:
>>>Andy Partridge created the music - <<<
What, ALL music?
>>>he's flattered that
*anyone* would want all the crap quality boots
floating around, and doesn't mind folks trading them.
Interestingly - he doesn't like folks selling them.
You can play all the games you want with the word
*trade* - To Andy there is a distinction between
trading for money and trading for other audio.<<<
Care to elaborate?
>>>For me at least - that's the end of this
discussion.<<<
Come on, surely you are capable of formulating your
own opinion?
Obviously, Andy's opinion is the only one that counts
regarding *his* music - though bootleggers are likely
to feel a tad confused given that Andy has made
comments in the past which seem to give a green light
to their activities. But Todd and I were talking in
more general terms.
I'm quite happy to confess that I have a shitload of
illegally copied stuff in my possession. Anyone around
here who claims they don't is almost certainly lying.
We all know that you have masses of the stuff Wes -
you post macking big lists of it on the web. What I
object to is "traders" smugly claiming some sort of
moral superiority over "sellers", even when the seller
in question is only covering his own costs.
You chalkhillians are an odd bunch - you rant and rail
against a distribution model which you feel gives
insufficient rewards to artists, while at the same
time supporting an alternative model which gives *no*
rewards to artists!!!
Jeffrey Thomas: I wholeheartedly endorse your defence
of Sgt Pepper. Just one or two quibbles about your
take on Beatles history though...
>>>Chris, I think you make a couple of mistakes here
w/ regard to Sgt. Pep. John was cruising, yes, but he
had more compositions (you forgot "Good
Morning, Good Morning") and more co-writes ("Getting
Better" and "She's Leaving Home") than you credited
him with. Supposedly, he even helped finish that old
Paul tune "When I'm 64", and he was certainly into it
in his own way (despite later comments), or how else
do you explain that fabulous guitar part in the third
verse?<<<
John was snoozing rather than cruising. Paul "took
over" the band circa Pepper largely by default. John
was incapable of doing much work since his brain was
so frazzled by LSD at the time. Paul had no choice but
to take on more of a leading role artistically - the
only alternative was for the group to wither and die
by '67/'68, and it's largely Paul we have to thank for
that not happening. John became embittered over Paul's
new prominence, but he was physically and mentally
unable to compete with him at the time.
John vehemently denied any hand in the writing of
"When I'm 64". John was guilty of a lot of BS in his
interviews, but I see no reason to doubt him on this
point.
>>>That John wasn't the driving force is correct (he
wasn't on any post-Rubber Soul records), but they were
all "tuned in" at the same time, i.e. regardless of
the music, Sgt.P was their pinnacle in terms of group
effort and, above all, impact and relevance. No album
in the years before or after had so much group
activity between the two, and indeed between the four.
Okay, a lot of the co-writes were heavily skewed
towards one writer, but it is common that bits &
pieces attributed to one were actually delivered by
the other ("I'd love to turn you on" was Paul; "I used
to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart
from the things that she loved" was John, as was "We
gave her everything money could buy" etc.).<<<
Agreed - Pepper was a cultural phenomenon, and its
status as such cannot be understated. More importantly
(I've never been one for cultural phenomena) it's a
fine piece of music. I don't understand why people
should have a problem with Paul contributing more
songs than John. Okay, so Paul later wrote the Frog
Chorus and was uncool enough to live into his 60s, but
if you ignore all that and just look at their work in
the Beatles, Paul was at least the equal of John.
>>>The good part of their cooperation at that time is
that John was *perfectly content* for Paul to take the
lead, it let him trip more and explore himself. It
led to very peaceful and fruitful cooperation between
the two; once he snapped out of that phase (White
Album), everything became a bit more tense, strained,
vitriolic ... and eventually fatal for the group.<<<
I don't agree with that interpretation at all. John
was consistent in interviews from the late '60s
onwards that he was desperately unhappy about being in
the group once he lost his marbles and Paul took over.
He was content about nothing. Any fruitful cooperation
during this period was between Paul and George Martin,
not Paul and John.
>>>Revolver is also a lot of Paul -- in my opinion his
best album -- but they still tried to keep a 50/50
balance (in terms of individually written [!]
songs) at that point.<<<
Agreed - Paul's songs are amazing on that album.
"Tomorrow Never Knows" and "She Said She Said" apart,
John's contributions to Revolver were pretty modest.
John was in grave danger of being reduced to the third
writer (in terms of quality) at this point - and this
was largely down to his unfortunate drug habits, it
must be said.
Beatle Bert.
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:26:42 -0000 From: "Darryl W. Bullock" <drol@btinternet.com> Subject: The price of love Message-ID: <000901c29d55$0c19e5c0$19a2fea9@Bullock> Im saddened by the news that Ted Harms (Chalkhills digest #8-64) feels that at well under a dollar US a track the Fuzzy Warbles discs are too expensive, but what is he really complaining about? The discs themselves are cheaper than most UK releases (normally #15), on a par with chart discounted titles and a couple of quid (at #12.99 when you include UK tax) above mid price. A bit of a bargain I reckon, especially with a running time of almost an hour for the first disc (that's less than 22 English pennies a minuite) and fifty minutes for the second. OK, I admit that I would have paid any price for them, but these two beautiful (and autographed) things sitting on my coffee table right now are worth every penny. Remember, this is ANDY PARTRIDGE for chrissake! Isn't he the whole point of our being here - the whole reason that this forum exists? And several of the tracks are 'complete' XTC performances...even Terry makes an appearance. Worth every red cent for the cracking live-in-the-studio version of 'I Don't Want To Be Here' alone. But to pick up on Ted's point the discs are only aimed at completists - they're never going to be seen by casual listeners as they will only be available through the official Idea site, and surely most of the people that regularly log on are pretty much dyed in the wool fans aren't they? And Ted, I really don't think that you can blame Andy for your bank ripping you off! Get a credit card! What I should say here is that any of you who have not heard them yet are in for an aural feast. Better by far than any tape or bootleg disc in circulation the quality is astonishing - with dodgy speed corrected, no tape hiss to wade through, no drop-outs and a whole bunch of stuff that has never been circulated before. As Ted said, no-one is holding a gun to your head (nice metaphor - have you seen Bowling For Columbine?) to force you to buy them. But you MUST BUY THEM! They are awesome! Mind you, it looks like we'll have to wait until Volume 3 for 'All I Dream Of Is A Friend'. Big money selling you stuff that you really do not need? I don't think so.... Darryl
------------------------------ End of Chalkhills Digest #8-65 ******************************
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