Chalkhills Digest Volume 8, Issue 2
Date: Thursday, 3 January 2002
Chalkhills Digest, Volume 8, Number 2
Thursday, 3 January 2002
Topics:
You say fellate, and I say fallate...
Piper at the Gates of Yawn
car commercial and ranking stuff as if you care
Power Pop
patorkman.com
DM
Re: Pink Floyd
POPularity
You can't get the buttons these days....
Oh By the Way, Which One's Pink?
Phil And Pete (NO XTC)
Knights in glaring pun~mour
Rights and Wrongs
Supertramp apologia
Answers
XTC, The Jazz Band
Prambling
Easy does it
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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:36:59 -0500 From: William Loring <bloring@TIRERACK.COM> Subject: You say fellate, and I say fallate... Message-ID: <B858BD7B.1701E%bloring@tirerack.com> Kyla wrote: > Ever happy to smith those words for ya, I'll close here by pointing > out that it's 'fellate', not 'fallate'. From 'fellatio', > donchaknow... It was that damn Microsoft's fault. Stupid corporate monopoly, they are. And they don't put any of the good words in the spell checker, either. Welcome to Chalkhills! Regards, William (I'm buying flowers for everyone, thanks Iggy!) Loring
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:42:16 EST From: WTDK@aol.com Subject: Piper at the Gates of Yawn Message-ID: <bf.191da7a0.2964e6c8@aol.com> A long post for which I apologize--- Interesting tread from Clifford-- > How many people agree? I most certainly do not. > Comparing Syd Barrett Pink Floyd and post Ummagumma Floyd is like comparing > chalk to cheese. Both styles are terrific and I enjoy listening to Piper 1. Roger or Dave? Why? Well I disagree with Andy on this one. It reminds me about the debate on Fleetwood Mac. I prefer Peter Green's FM but, depending on who was the dominant songwriter, you could argue that they are really different bands just sharing the same name. Although in PF's case, Wright, Waters & Mason had more of an impact on the band's overall sound. Who's to say whether Waters would have emerged out of Syd's shadow and become a major contributor. I really do feel that the major change in the band was with the introduction of Gilmour. His guitar playing helped to redefine the sound of the band just as much as Wright's experimentalism and Waters' sharp edged lyrics. Roger certainly provided the bite to Floyd but I've found his solo career uninteresting. His songs also tend to all sound the same to me (which tends to support my theory about Dave as being the musical arranger in the band). I felt MLOR could have used Waters' lyrical touch but felt that the music captured the essence of "classic" Floyd. I also have always preferred Dave's singing to Roger's. 2. Syd or Post Syd? Why? Both. The two don't compare at all. When Syd left the band took a completely different direction. I've always felt that Syd (if he had managed to hold on to his grip on reality) had he stayed with the band would have ended up in the direction favored by Robyn Hitchcock musically (and since Hitchcock owes a huge debt to Syd and early Floyd it's certainly possible). 3. What is your opinion of the two post Roger albums (Momentary lapse of reason and The Division Bell)? I like them both. Really, though, MLOR is a Dave Gilmour solo album. It's quite a good solo album but it's clearly not a "band" effort. Again, Gilmour isn't as strong a lyricist as Waters but he also isn't as morbid. There's an element of hope in a lot of Gilmour's post-Waters compositions that was missing towards the end with PF. I suppose a Watersless PF would be similar to a Partridgeless Xtc. I personally was hoping that Colin would take Dave Gilmour up on his offer and had played with PF on a temporary basis. Would have been interesting. The Division Bell (I've always thought) demonstrated what PF was a viable option without Waters. It's truly more of a band effort and has much of the lyrical bite that was missing from MLOR. It also has a sense of compassion which was missing from a lot of Waters' later stuff. 4. What is your opinion of the Wall Movie? Hated it. Horrible movie. Captures the essence of the album but I didn't really need to see it. Waters mined what happened to Syd for far too long. Granted, he came up with some truly powerful material as a result but, again, I felt the results were morbid and depressing at the end. Ironic as it may seem I actually like The Final Cut quite a bit. It's a bit heavy handed but some of Waters' most affecting material appears on the album. Yes, it's pretty much a Waters' solo album but still some powerful moments. Gilmour's guitar needed to be used much more though. 5. Can you detect Floyd influences in XTC's music? Give examples. I actually hear more of the spirit of Syd's music in the band more than actual influences. Seagulls Screaming Kiss Her Kiss Her and Wake Up both remind me of something that Syd might have done. In fact, The Big Express has the strongest Floyd connection. from Mary-- >And one more thing, risking to get flogged by one and all; as a mother of a four year old who is crazy about Disney's Tarzan, where Phil Collins does the music, I have to say that it is a great soundtrack. (He even sings it in Italian, did the same for French, Spanish and German). The guy was/is a great percussionist, and sometimes even his pop songs reach levels of < I have an 8 yearold and twin 3 year old boys who love the music to Tarzan so you won't get an arguement from me. Again, I always felt that Collins first solo album offered a lot of promise. I felt he slid the role of light entertainer after that. from Sughosh Varadarajan-- >"Ooh, that track they used in the pizza jingle is really cool... I must find out who it's by, and get the CD." But it offers people like you and me, the XTC fans, the Nick Drake fans, that much more chance of being able to popularise the music among those we know.< Very good point. The one advantage ot all this is that an artist is rediscovered by a new generation. That rediscover is what keeps the artist's music alive. The question, I suppose, is how the music is used vs. if it is used at all. The second question is whether or not the artist (or their estate) was consulted. I don't see that much difference between Yoko Ono's John Lennon commerical ventures and a television commerical. On the other hand, I did really resent having to sit through a horrible commerical on a finanical company that used The Beatles' Help!. The performance was pretty poor as well (don't know who they hired to do it). Very sad news about Stuart Adamson. I have very fond memories of Big County. Sounds like his drinking problem and suicide may have been related to bipolar depression based on what I've read. Adamson was a very talented songwriter. He collaborated on a couple of songs with Ray Davies on the band's last album. He was the heart and soul of that band. from Richard -- All this hooey about artistic purity gets annoying. (suggested reading, "Mansion On The Hill" by Fred Goodman - it's all about Dylan, Grossman, Springsteen, Geffen and the improbable blending of bohemia and business) Great book and it does put it all into perspective. Amanda commented-- And on one final, completely un-music related note, is anyone on the list a fan of the sci-fi show Babylon 5? Just curious. I just recently discovered it, having met two of its most talented cast members, Jason Carter & Robin Atkin Downes at a convention in September. A well written show that didn't get the press it deserved. It could have used something else....perhaps Science Friction as it's theme music? >>In 2000, on the italian television, "Frivolous tonight" has been used "to sell" a car (la "Lupo" from Wolkswagen I think).<< I certainly hope he made some money from it as well. It's his tune but, again, there are some songs that are just too sacred to do that with (any suggestions for songs you never, ever want to hear in a television commerical?). Again, it's not a huge diff to me. You could compare it to an inexpensive music video for the band. I still think it's a lazy way to sell a product but, hey, if they're willing to pay a musican well, more power to them! Wayne
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:20:29 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Eby <jeffaeb@yahoo.com> Subject: car commercial and ranking stuff as if you care Message-ID: <20020102232029.58400.qmail@web11606.mail.yahoo.com> I mentioned this on the idea records XTC forum about the italian VW car commercial with Frivolous Tonight in it and didn't get any feedback. Do you think it's significant that it's a Colin song selling a car, considering Andy's outspoken views on cars (roads girdle the globe, River of Orchids) --- Okay, albums I listened to this year and would recommend with no hesitation: 2001 Kristin Hersh, Sunny Border Blue (Best of 2001) TMBG, Mink Car Albums I bought and liked but can find some tiny bad moments in: Tool, Lautalus Bjork, Vespertine Tori Amos, Strange Little Girls (hideous Hapiness is a warm gun) Erykah Badu: Mama's Gun Afro Celt Sound System V. 3:Further In Time Kate Rusby: Little Lights I also got and loved older stuff from Apples in Stereo, Rage agasinst the Machine, Wyclef Jean, OutKast, Portishead, Soul Coughing. my current XTC rankings( the middle changes constantly, I'll probably change my mind by the time I see it posted 1. Skylarking 2. A.V. 1 3. Nonsuch 4. Chips From the Chocolate Fireball 5. Black Sea 6. English Settlement 7. Oranges and Lemons 8. Wasp Star 9. Big Express 10. Mummer 11. Drums and Wires 12. White Music 13. Go2 And finally, my christams mix CD for the uninitated XTC101 1. This is Pop (Transitor Blast 4) 2. Statue of Liberty 3. Making Plans for Nigel 4. Respectable Street 5. Senses Working Overtime 6. No Thugs in our House (Transistor Blast 2) 7. Love on a Farmboys Wages 8. Wake Up 9. Dear God 10. You're My Drug 11. Mayor of Simpleton 12. Collidescope 13. Earn For Us 14. 1000 Umbrellas 15. The Ballad of Peter Pumpkinhead 16. Wounded Horse 17. Your Dictionary 18. Then She Appeared 19. Easter Theatre ===== The DUKES say it's time... it's time to visit the planet smile... it's time the love bomb was dropped... it's time to kiss the sun... -The Dukes of Stratosphear
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:17:32 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <cauldron@together.net> Subject: Power Pop Message-ID: <B8586792.1D10%cauldron@together.net> on 12/31/01 9:34 PM, a power pop connoisseur wrote: > <<As to Supertramp....well they were basically a power pop band that made it > very big>> > > Thanks for setting us straight on that one. > > Silly me, I thought that the ingredients of power pop included crunchy > and/or chiming guitars and tight, concise arrangements balanced with catchy > melodies and sweet harmony. > > Imagine my surprise to discover that the true recipe requires chirpy > electric pianos, precious, reedy vocals and the least-swinging rhythm > section of the rock era. Couldn't help noticing, in the Behind The Music on Genesis on VH1(they were doing a Behind The Music marathon, every single one they'd ever produced, ending yesterday), they referred to the later 80's/early 90's Genesis as "power pop." Depends on how broad your definition of power pop is, I suppose; if Genesis is power pop, then it's not too much of a stretch to call Supertramp power pop as well.
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:18:15 -0600 From: "vee tube" <veetube@hotmail.com> Subject: patorkman.com Message-ID: <F240qmprYFqlsyUdHCQ00010d47@hotmail.com> PartOrtham.com sayeth, "My music does pretty well- this year I got a #1 bestseller on Amazon's Indie Alternative Rock chart with my CD "Pat *rtman", and the previous year my all-MP3 album got to #1 on MP3's rock chart. <snip> Certainly, Moby's the biggest success out of commercials. Sting's done a few, too. The point is, I don't think you need to be soft or irrelevant to be in commercials in this century. I think there's a difference between selling and selling -out." xtc4u.org Sayeth; "we think your point is *quite* obvious, thank you very much!" xtc4u.org Also sayeth; FK! 2001! 2002! Is HERE! }---:) P.S. Sell!Sell!Sell!PatMork.com!
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 13:33:24 +0900 From: "jazzbo" <aso1@mocha.ocn.ne.jp> Subject: DM Message-ID: <007901c1940f$c88d5390$06247ad3@FM2B25C593258D> Lotsa mention about Nick Drake recently ... Might interest you to know that Dave Mattacks ( Nonsuch ) played drums on Drake's " Bryter Layter " ... Sushiman John
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 04:37:25 +0000 From: "Roger Blass" <rogerblass@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Pink Floyd Message-ID: <F19F3cMnA0VYqMhmhVH00001ac0@hotmail.com> >Andy Partridge once said that after the departure of Syd Barrett, Pink >Floyd stopped making good music. >How many people agree? I most certainly do not. I agree with Mr. Partridge. I picked up a few of the post-Barrett albums in $1 bins, and only in my most generous moments can I consider them worthwhile. I don't dislike them in the manner I dislike '70s corporate rock (eg, Styx, Journey, Toto) - I will grant that they are "artists" - but the post-Barrett band rarely did anything for me. They did have excellent album covers throughout their career. >1. Roger or Dave? Why? Dave. He's a dreamboat! >2. Syd or Post Syd? Why? Syd. Chances that a concise, quirky pop song would result were greatly improved. >3. What is your opinion of the two post Roger albums (Momentary lapse of >reason and The Division Bell)? See my feelings on Journey, Styx, et al. Hope they made the taxman happy. >4. What is your opinion of the Wall Movie? Surprisingly, at the height of my teenage hatred of Pink Floyd, I nearly loved that movie. I have seen it since, and it's still good. >5. Can you detect Floyd influences in XTC's music? Give examples. Not of the post-Barrett era. Dukes of Stratosphear obviously made some nods toward Syd. Roger Blass
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 00:08:20 -0500 From: Virginia Rosenberg <vmr423@earthlink.net> Subject: POPularity Message-ID: <B8595174.87B%vmr423@earthlink.net> Just a few more comments on pop music & commerce. Some art can do with a limited audience- some art is even created solely to provide pleasure or amusement for the artist. By its very definition, however, pop music is created with the goal of gaining popularity. The bigger the audience, the more people who go about whistling the tune, the more of us going crazy because we've got catchy tunes lodging in our crania, the more successful, ipso facto, pop music is. If people hear pop songs via commercials which they had not heard before, then those commercials have given those songs a wider audience: the very thing pop music seeks as its goal. The popularity of music often gets confused with its commercial potential for obvious reasons, but even the most jaded hacks wishing to make big bucks in the music industry need to first create, or acquire at least a percentage of, songs which become popular. And when we find songs that we love, we try to get our friends (& acquaintances & total strangers- anyone, really) to listen to them, we get evangelical about sharing our tastes, because pop music desires an audience- the bigger the better, the more the merrier. Why else do we ask fellow Chalkillions for suggestions about which songs we should include on mix tapes to get our friends hooked on XTC? Or recommend the music of other artists we like? As for the idea that commercials are behavioral conditioning, I s'pose there are some folks out there who respond like Skinner's rats & Pavolov's dogs to the power of suggestion (they must go broke pretty quickly, though). Personally, I believe that free will & freedom of choice are not just pretty phrases- if we take the trouble to learn to think for ourselves, then we really don't need to worry that we'll be helpless to resist the lure of that XTC ad for Lupo's or whatever. And in a way, I think the very prevalence of advertising tends to weaken its effect- we may enjoy a commercial more if it's clever or has good background music, but we've become savvy or cynical enough- through overexposure to all these demands on our attention- that we don't feel compelled to put down our remotes to go buy color copiers just because John Cleese tells us they're fantastic. Now I have to ask- because I'm curious & don't watch TV much, but love Nick Drake- which song- I'm supposing it was just one song- actually got used for the commercial? Curiouser & curiouser, Virginia
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 21:49:36 -0800 (PST) From: Jon Rosenberger <wile1coyote@yahoo.com> Subject: You can't get the buttons these days.... Message-ID: <20020103054936.61637.qmail@web13403.mail.yahoo.com> Cliff did Ponder... Here's a few questions for you all: 1. Roger or Dave? Why? Dave, cause Rog is just such a WANKER! I mean how can anyone take themselves that seriously? 2. Syd or Post Syd? Why? Post actually, Syd stuff is great but I mean come on..Dark Side, Meddle, The Wall, Animals.... Hell have you seen the Video "Floyd Live in Pompei"? MIND BLOWING! And I don't even use those kinds of chemicals anymore! Echoes is still one of my alltime fave tracks to veg out to. And Dark side well we all know what Dark side is used for. 3. What is your opinion of the two post Roger albums (Momentary lapse of reason and The Division Bell)? Not as good but better than what most bands can produce, for a real thrill check out Radio K.A.O.S. by RW, should have been a movie made about this one. Amazing talent that WANKER has. 4. What is your opinion of the Wall Movie? It freaks me out when he shaves his eyelids. 5. Can you detect Floyd influences in XTC's music? Give examples. You mean besides the Dukes? Try Oranges and Lemons and Skylarking. And since I am here I will chip in my euro on another subject. I like Phil Collins, I like post PG Genesis better than Genesis with PG. Frankly I like PG better outside of Genesis too, but back to Phil. I think he is an accomplished musician who has worked his ASS off to get where he is today. His lyrics may be a bit inane but hell at least they are catchy and he is a freaking drummer for gods sake he never claimed to be Marvin Hamlisch. I find his comments to be funny, I am damn grateful that he went and dragged Eric Clapton out of the needle and reminded him how much fun playing music is. I laughed during the movie Buster. Actually his acting reminds me of Bob Hoskins. Again he ain't Alec Guiness but he never claimed to be he just likes goofing around in front of the camera a bit. What the hell, why not! I saw Genesis on the Invisible Touch tour and to say they blew the roof off the place is a vast understatement. Every one of these guys knows their instruments inside and out and they pulled no punchs, I also got the feeling that they didn't really give two spits about the audience, they were playing cause they loved it. Either that or the girls up front were flashing them....I was a ways back on the main floor and it was tough to see. So basically what I am saying is "Sure Sussudio is a crap song, so what?" Lighten up! And take this shit outside, cause this is an XTC list and whether any of us like or dislike PC\Genesis doesn't matter one twit. XTC is a great band. The Dukes Rock! The Colonel likes to go fishing! Mr. Twangy is working a session somewhere. Terry is\was a real beater! Steve Warren had the job I really want. Ian Reid is THE BASTARD! RP-A is gonna finish that thing if it kills him! Mitch are you working on a new release? How about you Becki? Is it done yet? Gott, seriously go read the words to "This is Pop". Have the metalgods finally accepted Dom as a sacrifice? Holy Cow Amanda posted again! We miss you, come back! Dunks is wordy! Where the hell is Harrison? I need satirical, cynical humour dammit! Congrats on the New Job TB! Sorry I didn't send word earlier. Strijbos, just post every once in a while so we know you are alive OK? DB, how do you get so much free time? I'm working on your disc really! Culnane got a home PC, HOORAY! Dom how is the wind downunder these days ? Hello Madam Muller! How is Vancouver Ed? Snow yet? I can't posible say it too many times John thanks for creating this place, and thanks for introducing me to this crazy family. I raise my glass to you and all that you have accomplished here. I say "These things matter, Phil really doesn't". But that's just the way I see it, I could be wrong. Have a Happy New Year everyone. Mole PS: Simon Curtiss please get in touch with me if you see this, I am worried about you. Post here if you can't get a message through to me.
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 01:04:58 -0600 From: "eriC draveS" <zoom98@mindspring.com> Subject: Oh By the Way, Which One's Pink? Message-ID: <001201c19424$f5611b80$0da02a3f@XLZOOM> APPLES AND ORANGES VS. ORANGES AND LEMONS Clifford asks, in regard to Fink Ployd: > 1. Roger or Dave? Why? Roger was willing to stick to his principles when he took offence at PF for taking forever to do new albums, concerts, etc, but is still a willing traitor to the band and we like him less for it. Also bear in mind that some of his stuff seems unlistenable without the rest of PF involved. After "The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking", he did "Radio Kaos", "Amused to Death", etc. and each new album is worse. Of course, you can say the same thing with Dave. The problem with Dave is that when he's the only main singer in PF, all the songs sound more the same. It's like if Andy sung all the XTC songs: but what about the complementing vocals of Colin? I admire Dave as a guitarist now, but beyond that Pink Floyd have no future. But if I had to pick my favorite I'd choose Dave. This despite the great stuff Roger did in the past, especially his contributions to Ummagumma. > 2. Syd or Post Syd? Why? In my cassette days, I never heard Syd because I didn't know about the first two albums except on "A Nice Pair". When I finally got it, I thought, "What the F*** are all these childish songs? I'd be embarrassed to listen to them in public!" Then I learned that the psychedelia of England was somewhat different and involved songs about gnomes, scarecrows, etc. and that PF had it right. And Syd had a mad genius that I really, really like now. The song called "Have You Got it Yet?" which he kept changing the tune of so nobody would ever learn it. The song "Interstellar Overdrive" was a fantastic exercise in freeform guitar work. The time he crushed Mandrax tablets in a jar of hair cream and dumped the gooey mess over his head, BEFORE going out to perform. Performing by not singing or even strumming the guitar. Strumming a guitar with loose strings. I could go on... But, mad genius aside, you can't deny the fantastic power that is "Careful With that Axe, Eugene", "Brain Damage/Eclipse", "Dogs", "Echoes", even "Comfortably Numb" which made #2 of the greatest songs of all time on a local radio station a couple years ago. Therefore, I have to go with Post-Syd. Despite the wonderful things Syd did, he's only one person, and great albums like Dark Side of the Moon put PF on the map. > 3. What is your opinion of the two post Roger albums (Momentary Lapse of Reason and The Division Bell)? Many of the songs are terrible by PF standards, but I still love many of them. Particularly "Dogs of War", "Keep Talking", "What do You Want from Me" and "Learning to Fly". > 4. What is your opinion of the Wall Movie? I loved it. A phantasmagoria of animation and live action. My parents, who hate most rock'n'roll, loved the movie. I only got upset when I found out there were some songs not in the movie, but it's like one big long music video, and very well done. Admittedly the vision was done a little differently by the director and by Gerald Scarfe the animator than the way Roger wanted, but Roger did approve the final cut of it, so to speak. > 5. Can you detect Floyd influences in XTC's music? Give examples. The clocks ticking in "25 O'Clock" reminiscent of PF's "Time" "Bike Ride to the Moon" similar to PF's "Bike" The opening to "My Love Explodes" reminiscent of PF soundtrack work "You're a Good Man Albert Brown (Curse You Red Barrel)" VERY similar to "Corporal Clegg" Hmmm... that'd just the Dukes, not XTC. Still, there is one important PF influence in XTC, and that is, as time goes on there are fewer members of the group. Roger Waters can be seen as a precursor of Dave Gregory, especially as I haven't bought any DG solo albums... ----- Hmmm... maybe I should try to find a PF Digest as well, but I really don't like them the way I used to. If you look at the later PF albums they lose quality, but XTC ones aren't that bad yet (Wasp Star seems to be just slightly lower until the last song). Anyway, time to go... eriC draveS "That is the most obscene... abomination of a song..."
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 11:19:12 -0000 From: Edward Collier <edward.collier@techop.co.uk> Subject: Phil And Pete (NO XTC) Message-ID: <4359BE5CC01DD311886500A0C9D4406922C472@SERVER1> Spake Pat: >... Phil started singing by doubling Peter's vocal parts in concert ... >And I always thought their voices had some striking similarities... So did I. It was the vertiginous, rollercoaster drop in lyric quality (and, frankly, choon quality) that made post-PG Genesis such a pale and dull imitation; from the sublime (or at least pretty interesting) to the ...er ... not sublime at all, actually. Edward
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:37:14 -0000 From: "Pledge" <Pledge7@btinternet.com> Subject: Knights in glaring pun~mour Message-ID: <001401c1946c$8bd8bae0$96aa7ad5@oemcomputer> >I can't express much more than that (being a long-time >Hari collector), except a couple things. For once I >feel quite alone in the world. >I miss him, too... as many others do. Although I hear >rumours that he may be knighted posthumously in June. >Perhaps it is "just a rumour", but it would be nice, >although a bit too late, IMO. Sorry can't resist this: Surely now is about the right time to posthumously knight George Harrison. Any earlier and he'd hasve still been alive. Pledge
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:00:56 -0600 From: "Richard" <rjpa1@attbi.com> Subject: Rights and Wrongs Message-ID: <01f001c1946f$d465b300$02081fac@verisity.com> re: Steve Johnson's thoughtful and timely response (at least much more timely than mine). Steve stated: "No artist is forced to sign away rights to songs." While this might be "technically" true, there is a hell of a lot of bargaining that goes on and things are surrendurred for other gains. Case in point, a band called XTC. They surrendurred their back catalog to Virgin (and a few compilation sets) to be released from their contract. There are also plenty of stories from the "old days" (before musicians had to think of this thing as a business) wherein artists like, say XTC, signed away various rights or settled for meager percentages because they were simply thrilled to be able to record their music in a studio and put out a record. Granted they weren't "forced" to sign away rights but many trade-offs were made and many agreements were signed with naivete. Consider that there are many musicians who have a fair amount of disdain for some or all of their back-catalog. I honestly don't think that Andy cares enough about anything before Black Sea to fight for it. Now the record company innevitably ends up being branded the "bad guy" but the record company KNEW they were in a business and in business you do the best you can. Yes, you could be more diplomatic and nurturing as a company but it has never been listed as a requirement. Artists like Elvis Costello KNEW he was in a business right from the start and played the game accordingly. That is not to say that he hasn't had any losses or made any mistakes, but he knew it was business. For some it took much longer to learn - and some NEVER did. Cheers, Richard p.s. To Virginia (re: ...the man who grew the money tree...) - You wacky American, you! Not all money is green!
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 11:28:21 -0600 From: "Steve Oleson" <Steve.Oleson@oag.state.tx.us> Subject: Supertramp apologia Message-ID: <sc344064.041@oag_mail.oag.state.tx.us> While I almost always agree with Todd Bernhardt, I must take issue with at least part of his comments re Supertramp: "...chirpy electric pianos, precious, reedy vocals and the least-swinging rhythm section of the rock era" OK, I am not a big fan of Supertramp, but they are at times brilliant. Their entire career can be forgiven for the greatness of "Fool's Overture". Maybe I'm just a sucker for Churchill's uttering: "We shall never surrender, no matter the cost." Granted, the precious reedy vocals do get on my nerves sometimes, but I think many bass players will agree that Supertramp's Dougie Thompson was the foundation that made the band have the balls that they did. He does swing! It is interesting how many people can be completely turned off by the quality of a band's lead vocalist's voice, so much so that they "hate the band" on that judgement alone. People have told me that they dont like XTC for that reason! Other bands rejected because of vocalist's voice: Todd Rundgren Steely Dan Neil Young Elvis Costello Gentle Giant etc, etc, etc... Speaking of "precious reedy vocals" I'm imagine that even Mr Bernhardt can overlook Kerry Minnear's vocals on Gentle Giant recordings, and concentrate on their extravagent musicianship and compositional creativity. Later, Steve "Dejected in Texas" Oleson
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 10:46:19 -0800 From: Rando <rando@attbi.com> Subject: Answers Message-ID: <2D494746-007A-11D6-BD98-000A27E3EBC8@attbi.com> Okay, being a longtime Floyd fan, I couldn't resist giving my two cents. 1. Roger or Dave? Why? Roger's music and especially lyrics are much better to my ears. Dave's music is good, but his lyrics are laughable. They were at their best with Roger's lyrics and basic melodic ideas combined with Dave's musical sensibilities and playing ability. Waters' "In the Flesh" tour kicked the hell out of anything the Gilmour-Mason-Wright "Floyd" did in the 80's and 90's. 2. Syd or Post Syd? Why? You can't compare them. I consider them two different bands -- "The Pink Floyd" (Syd's) and "Pink Floyd" (post-Syd). 3. What is your opinion of the two post Roger albums (Momentary lapse of reason and The Division Bell)? MLOR is annoyingly dull. Geez, count how many session men are in the credits. TDB is better because of it's more unified "band" sound, but rambles too long and is in sore need of some good lyrics. "Take It Back" is the worst Floyd song EVER, followed quickly by "Learning to Fly." As a side note, the 3-piece Floyd's live rendition of Syd's "Astronomy Domine" on the 1994 tour was incredibly well done. Since Dave helped to teach Syd to play guitar, he can mimic his style like no one else. 4. What is your opinion of the Wall Movie? Gerald Scarfe's animation is striking. I wish they would have stuck to the original plan of making it a live concert film with extra animation and goodies. I agree with Water's sentiment that it's "better to watch it in 15 minutes chunks." I also find it hilarious that he's thinking of turning it into a Broadway show "with more humor in it." Huh?! 5. Can you detect Floyd influences in XTC's music? Give examples. The most obvious would be "Bike Ride to the Moon" and "Fruit Nut," both of which remind me of Syd's music. Actually, "Mole from the Ministry" reminds me of Syd's "Scream Thy Last Scream" a bit because of the little "chipmunk" voice that's present in both. For some reason, I hear MUCH more musical Floyd influence in Radiohead's later music, but that's another topic altogether. --Rando
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 12:51:11 -0600 (CST) From: Brown <i.sundog@verizon.net> Subject: XTC, The Jazz Band Message-ID: <200201031851.g03IpBQ21061@smtp001pub.verizon.net> Mr. Vreeland's XTC collection as a jazz quartet, err, trio, I mean duo is right on the money *EXCEPT* for one glaring omission- <<<With recent discussions about tailoring a CD's worth of selected XtC songs to a particular prospective listener, it occurred to me that you could build and entire CD's worth of material on which xTC were almost entirely disguised as a Jazz band. Consider an album comprised of the following: Mantis on Parole Ladybird Me and the Wind I Bought Myself a Liarbird You're the Wish You Are I Had I Remember the Sun Mermaid Smiled The Man Who Sailed Around His Soul Cynical Days Rook River of Orchids Knights in Shining Karma The Last Balloon>>> Eegads, lad! Have ya been at the floor wax again? I don't see The World Is Full Of Angry Young Men listed here!! One of Colin's best.. TWIFOAYM has that Steely Danish, minty fresh funk, but with half the calories as the next leading jazzy pop piece! And speaking of the use of pop music in commercial advertising: Dunks, you granola-munching mucker, you.. Love to hear you ga'wan.. The bottom line is that if it gets the artist some exposure then rave on, I say... right? ...RIGHT?? Though I find the use of Bolan's Bang A Gong to sell a Ragu product very hard to swallow. . . Come on, peeps! T. Rex and microwaveable pasta, together at last?!? When the ad drones start dipping into my personal Cool Tunes Bin to find their music they may be taking it a bit too far. . . OK, OK.. I'm *leaving*. Later, love monkeys- Debora Brown RPA, Harvard Blankenship De La Croix III sends his regards!
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:14:58 -0700 From: Kirk.Gill@equifax.com Subject: Prambling Message-ID: <OFA0322E54.18DA679D-ON87256B36.0051AAE3@fin.equifax.com> Pat Ortman says: "I think there's a difference between selling and selling -out." Agreed. While the musicians we hear on the radio or whose music we buy at the record store are at least participating in commerce, the degree to which they've sold out their "artistic integrity" is unknown. But I think it's hard for a listener to tell what the artists intent was just from listening to their music. Seems like people's preconceived notions get in the way of an objective take on where an artist is coming from. Isn't it obvious to all of us that Britney (et. al.), or Phil Collins or Madonna have sold out? But I really have no idea. I don't know enough about them, or their creative process, to know, and judging them seems an act of little worth. Whoever it was that said "If I like it, I'll listen to it, and if I don't, I won't" had it right. And on a related note, one of my favorite bits of music is the version of "Supper's Ready" on the Genesis "Seconds Out" record, where Phil sings, beautifully. A post or two back, Chris Vreeland talked about XTC as a "jazz band." A lot of great jazz tunes, especially "back in the day" were based on "pop" standards that were taken to new heights by the jazz musicians who loved them. I think particularly of Coltrane's take on "My Favorite Things," which was decidedly not a jazz tune until JC made it into one. In that spirit, I think there are many XTC tunes that would benefit from such treatment. Some, as Chris mentioned, could already, in their original form, be considered jazz-Y, if not really outright jazz. But here's my list of songs that I'd love to hear some great jazz musicians take apart and restructure to their own ends: I Remember the Sun Rook Chalkhills and Children Yacht Dance No Language In Our Lungs (Can you imagine what a bunch of horns could do with that one?) Seagulls Screaming Omnibus World Wrapped in Grey Garden of Earthly Delights And there's many more. The chord structures and melodies of Andy and Colin's songs have the kind of complexity and interest that would reward a jazz musician, I think. By the way, congratulations to the aforementioned Pat Ortman for having the #1 bestseller on Amazon.com's indie chart. Nice to hear that a Chalker is doing so well. Wish I could listen to your stuff, but my company's firewall forbids any streaming audio......... k? "Melt the Guns"
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 20:04:46 -0500 From: "Scott Barnard" <brainiacsdaughter@hotmail.com> Subject: Easy does it Message-ID: <F175gzChGIwKDBnTczT00000f70@hotmail.com> >Todd responded to a comment that I made describing Breakfast In America as >power pop--> It wasn't Todd, it was me, though I'm beginning to regret it. >By that definition half >of the stuff the Raspberries and Badfinger did wasn't power pop. I guess >because Badfinger did ballads like Day After Day they aren't a power pop >band. Same with the Raspberries and the tune Overnight Sensation.> Perhaps, but "Baby Blue" and "Go All the Way" *are* power pop songs, by any reasonable definition (including my intentionally narrow one). I think you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone (well, me at least) that anything on Breakfast in America truly qualifies as power pop. Your point seems to be that Supertramp is power pop because YOU SAY IT IS, but you don't say WHY. Well, fine. By that reasoning, if I wanted to say that GWAR is a klezmer band then I'd be right too, though I'd be making a right twit of myself in the process. I hear the pop, Wayne, don't get me wrong. I just don't hear the power. >Oh and the last time I checked chirpy electric pianos and reedy vocals >prevent The Beatles from being described as a "rock band".< The Beatles' electric piano playing was often clumsy, but never chirpy. I don't know what your definition of reedy is (do tell!) but IMHO it's not an adjective that readily applies to the Fabs' vocals. >Off to the party >now....> >Happy New Year All!> Cheers! All the best in the new year and remember that sometimes a smart-ass comment is just that, and nothing more. S. Next time, XTC content, I promise.
------------------------------ End of Chalkhills Digest #8-2 *****************************
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