Chalkhills Digest Volume 6, Issue 247
Date: Sunday, 20 August 2000
Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 247
Sunday, 20 August 2000
Topics:
XTC for Beginners?
Re: Concerts
Re: Optigan
Concerts & Codas
My concerts
pro & concerts
Re: blah blah blah
5,000 fingers of Andy Partridge
Re: My concerts
A night at the Opera
Concerts I saw, WS after some weeks
More Concerts
Concert Faves
Open ideas....closed minds.
Re: misc
Re: Samples, schmamples
While my guitar gently plays 32nd note runs
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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 09:44:31 +1000 From: "Clifford Smith" <dracon@worldreform.net> Subject: XTC for Beginners? Message-ID: <001101c0096e$47a62fe0$290ffea9@dracon> If you wanted to make a CD introducing XTC to the unenlightened, what would the Tracklisting be?
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:40:31 -0500 From: Dave Hughes <dhughes5@unl.edu> Subject: Re: Concerts Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.20000818193645.592f705e@unlnotes01.unl.edu> First Concert: Bread (Pershing Auditorium, Lincoln, NE, 1971?) Best Concert: Any Richard Thompson concert - solo, duo, or with electric band! Most Disappointing Concert: John Entwistle Band (Lincoln, NE 1998) - too short! Why Did I Go?: KC and the Sunshine Band (Springfield, MO late '70s early '80s) Dream Concert: XTC (duh!) or The Who with Keith Moon ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dave Hughes Host of "Late in the Evening" on Nebraska Public Radio Saturday evenings 11 pm to 1 am Central Live stream available at http://net.unl.edu/
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:07:39 +1000 (EST) From: Mark <mwot4794@mail.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: Optigan Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.93.1000819100332.26653G-100000@extro.ucc.usyd.edu.au> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:00:08 CDT From: "Megan Heller" <hellerm@hotmail.com> Subject: Optiganlly Mine Message-ID: <F224zUXihG8KZkXtQTp00002de1@hotmail.com> >>Kevin Diamond has is on the same wavelength as myself-- >>Here's a question. I've been getting into this group called Optiganally Yours which, oddly enough, makes all it's music with Optigans, (Optical Organs) which basically, from what I've read, are exactly like what you guys are calling Mellotrons. What is the difference between the two? The only thing I can think of is that I know that the Optigan wasn't very well made, because it was made mostly using Mechanics, as opposed to Electronics. Are Mellotrongs just Electronically made Optigans?<< Wow! I just heard Optiganally Yours for the first time last night, on a compilation I'm reviewing (I almost posted asking people about them, but chose instead to ask about Self, also on the comp). From what I heard excellent stuff. Anyway, as for your question, I'm not sure, although I know that the Optigan was actually a children's toy (as is the Talentmaker, their instrument of choice for their second album, apparently). Have you been on www.optigan.com ? If not, there's lots of information, both about the Optigan and Optiganally Yours. coincidences abound! << Sorry to post twice... I'll remember to read the whole thing next time. Anyway, here's a URL: http://redwood.northcoast.com/~shojo/Optigan/optigan.html Also, a free (shameless) plug for one of my favourite bands: Rob Crow from Heavy Vegetable plays with one of these with Optiganally Yours. (Heavy Vegetable is now defunct, but if you can get a copy of "frisbie", clasp it to your bosom with both hands and don't let go. He's now in "thingy", which is also cool, but a bit more depressing.) He's great. mrak -- sex sleep eat drink dream -- king crimson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:16:03 -0700
From: Ed Kedzierski <ed.kedzierski@blvdmedia.com>
Subject: Concerts & Codas
Message-ID: <08B5DDC2BABCD311BFC6005004A884B013B7D5@mgcservices.com>
Oh, why not...
First Concert: Queen, Pacific Colliseum, Vancouver, 1980 (?) - a friend won
a radio contest for tickets and took me, we weren't fans, but as a first
glance at a big stadium excess-fest, it was a good choice in retrospect.
Most Satisfying (least disappointing): Elvis Costello & the Attractions,
1996 at Bumbershoot in Seattle. Left me emotionally drained & testy, but it
was worth it. He played for what seemed like hours, played more things that
I wanted to hear than I've ever felt the right to expect at any concert, and
closed with a rendition of "I Want You" that made me feel like I'd been
beaten up (but in a good way).
Most Disappointing: the Animals reunion tour, sometime in the 80s. should
have been fun - this was the original line up, Chas Chandler, Alan Price and
all, rather than just the king of the name-droppers with some session hacks,
but it was in the godawful UBC War Memorial gym, one of the worst places to
see a concert in Vancouver. The power kept failing, and after about the
third time that the lights & sound cut out, the king of the name-droppers
refused to come back on stage in spite of the very visible coaxing of the
rest of the band.
Most seen (not including friends/local bands): tie - the Kinks - 5 times,
Robyn Hitchcock 5 times (3 solo, 2 w/Egyptians)
Bad Date Concert: Siouxsie & the Banshees, 1986. the band was fine, but my
date fainted while we were standing there watching, scaring the shit out of
me. (she turned out to be fine, though she did break up with me later on by
the highly charming method of starting to see someone else without being
bothered to mention it to me until I ran into them at a bar one night...)
Most surprisingly memorable: the Cure, 1985. I went knowing nothing of their
stuff except for "Love Cats", and I walked out of the concert able to
recognize every song that I had heard that night, something that has not
happened when seeing a new or unfamiliar band before or since. Picked
through my friend's Cure albums later that night finding all the songs I'd
heard.
Most Obligatory: Paul McCartney ('89, '90, something like that). Had to see
one of the fabs live, and he could certainly be depended upon to give a good
show. I'm glad I went and all, though the slightly rapped-up "PS Love Me Do"
medley thing was a bit of a cringer, as was the point where his piano
platform started rotating during the "round and round" part of "Fool on the
Hill".
Most significant to my social life: Shriekback, Commodore Ballroom, 1985
(Oil & Gold tour). This was the first time that my friends and I went out
while trying to be "cool" in some way, and actually managed to more-or-less
pull it off. In the months since the Cure show mentioned above I'd been
growing, dyeing, crimping, spraying and otherwise goth-ing up my hair and
dressing accordingly. The Shriekback show was the first big public field
test of the new me, and I was stunned when it seemed to work. We drank,
danced, met girls... people forget what a good band Shriekback actually were
- Oil & Gold's a classic. This kicked of a two year period of going out
every night of the week, making up for a teenagerhood of cloistered
geekiness. And I can at least say that I've seen one former XTC member on
stage...
XTC content: well, obviously, I could kick myself, as they came through town
more than once, but I was always a total chickenshit about trying to get
into places when I was underage, and I only recall them playing the
Commodore (I could be wrong, but that's what I seem to remember), which is
generally no minors.
I recall a girl who was a friend of a friend complaining at a party about
the cancelled show (you know, the cancelled ES tour show that every town
had), and she must have met Andy when they'd been here last because the one
thing she kept repeating was how she and her friend kept trying to tell the
bouncer/guard/whatever "but we know Andy Partridge!", which, in light of
what I know now, was useless anyway as he wouldn't even have reached town,
having fled the West Coast after the California incident. Whether they were
yelling at some poor bastard at the closed & quiet venue where the gig was
scheduled, or a desk person at the hotel they'd been the last time, I have
no idea. I would have grilled her more, but for one thing I barely knew and
only mildly liked them then (I wasn't the sad fanboy I am now; in fact, I
think that this conversation might have been where I first learned that Andy
Partridge was the name of "the guy from XTC" in the first place), and I was
drunk.
Oh, and I've come to really love that Wrapped in Grey coda. There's a late
Beatles/early solo ex-Beatles (or as Song Stories says "Badfinger-ish")
quality to it that nicely offsets the (as Dan W. put it) "Beach Boy-ish"
vocals and vaguely Philly-ish strings and piano sound of the rest of the
song. To me, it's no blot - it turns expectations on their heads, it's the
flaw that perfects... It adds a certain balance. Then again, I actually
don't mind the "shave and a haircut at the end of the sonata" idea, so that
probably says something about me... (and that's not a flame, I'm just
disagreeing; it's quite possible to disagree without anger, and it gets
pretty tiresome when people keep referring to mild, non-hostile
disagreements as "flames".)
Ed K.
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:47:20 -0700 From: Craig Vreeken <CVreekn@ns.net> Subject: My concerts Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000818173409.00a972d0@mail-1.ns.net> First concert: Van Morrison, Alhambra Theater-Sacramento, 1973 Best concert: Bob Marley & The Wailers, Freeborn Hall, UC Davis, 1979 Runners Up: Pink Floyd, Hughes Stadium, Sacramento, 1988; XTC, The Stone, San Francisco, 1980; Steely Dan, Peter Gabriel, Oakland Colliseum, 1992, Sacramento Valley Ampitheatre, 2000 Most Disappointing Concert: Al Green, Memorial Auditorium, Sacramento, 2000 Dream Concert: XTC and Brian Wilson Craig Vreeken http://www.ns.net/~CVreekn/index.html
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:18:10 EDT From: Poisongold@aol.com Subject: pro & concerts Message-ID: <6b.89f975f.26cf3a52@aol.com> with no further ado First concert: POP 82 (headliner: Squeeze, with Split Enz, Third World, Bush Tetras and, as the absolute opening act, an obscure English band called Duran Duran) Mann Music Center Philadelphia 1982 Best concert: Costello and Nieve, Tower Theater, Philadelphia 1999 Best concert Runner-up: Todd Rundgren/TR-i NWO tour, Park West, Chicago 1993 Best concert 2nd R-u: 10,000 Maniacs/John & Mary, the Tralf, Buffalo 1991 Most disappointing concert: Tears for Fears, Tower Theater 1985 "What the hell was I thinking?" concert: Van Halen, Carrier Dome, Syracuse 1982 Most inexplicable concert: Deanna Kirk, Tin Angel, Philadelphia 1998 "Wish I'd been there" concert: what do you think? MJC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:23:45 EDT
From: CapnEndo@aol.com
Subject: Re: blah blah blah
Message-ID: <73.621727b.26cf49b1@aol.com>
In a message dated 08/14/2000 1:18:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<owner-chalkhills@chalkhills.org> writes:
> Its always strange to me
> the people that believe in "pro life" but also believe in the death penalty.
Or people who believe life for baby birds starts in the egg...but life for
humans start at birth. It goes both ways.
O
/\-^/\^/\-^/\^-/\ Tom </;o) /\-^/\^/\-^/\^-/\
-------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:38:18 EDT From: WTDK@aol.com Subject: 5,000 fingers of Andy Partridge Message-ID: <7f.894bb3b.26cf4d1a@aol.com> > he 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T". [relevance: one of Andy > P's faves, about a monstrous "Dr. T" [Vincent Price?] Actually, it was Hans Conreid who played the role. By the way for those folks that are interested Marshall Crenshaw's first album has been re-released with 10 bonus tracks (demos, live tunes, etc.) by Rhino. Crenshaw is an under rated singer/songwriter looked to break through and didn't. Wayne
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:18:06 -0400 From: "Brian" <mattone@bhip.infi.net> Subject: Re: My concerts Message-ID: <007301c0098c$195a65c0$3e0affd1@Brian> Tschalkgerz! First Concert: The Florida World Music Festival, 1978 Hoochie... Brownsville Station... Frank Marino & Mahogany Rush... Cheap Trick... Aerosmith... Ted Nugent. I hated it. Best Concert: Oingo Boingo at Jannus Landing, St. Pete Florida... I don't remember the date. I was close enough to Elfman to touch him. Best Concert Runner-Up: Either of the other two times I saw Oingo Boingo. What Was I thinking?!: The Rockets and Point Blank, Bayfront Center, St. Pete. Oh! know what I was thinking! I got laid that night... ;-) Wish I'd Been There: Oingo Boingo's farewell Halloween show in Los Angeles. :-( But I do have the video and the CD. :-) -Brian Matthews
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:25:24 -0500 From: "Marcus Padgett" <marcus@nebo.com> Subject: A night at the Opera Message-ID: <NDBBIHDFILGBJJCGKMNNIEIPCGAA.marcus@nebo.com> First concert (almost): The Guess Who - 1974. This was a big deal in Alaska because we only had about one concert per decade. That afternoon I ran 10 miles, scarfed some McDonald's, and ended up spending the whole concert hurling in the parking lot. Best concert: Weather Report - 1977 at the Auditorium in Chicago. Jaco was the man. The only thing better than a creative virtuoso is 5 creative virtuosos. They let people smoke in here? What's that funny smell....just like the one from my sister's room.... Worst concert: Dead or Alive 1986 at the Riviera. (friend is working the door so it's free - otherwise no way). The guy with the patch keeps dropping his microphone - but the vocals keep going. We go to the sound board and see a DAT tape running. And he had these two leather boys dancing with toy guitars through the whole show. The highlight of the evening was walking down the stairs to the bathrooms, watching the crowd, and trying to guess if they were going to turn towards the men's or women's when they reached the bottom of the stairs! Most Disgusting concert: The Cramps - 1983 at Tut's. A friend of mine was doing sound, and after the show he threw the singers microphone away and charged the cost of it to the band. I'll leave the details to your imagination. Worst experience at a concert: uh....can't commit this to the public record. Worst concert date: Some local band. My fairly new girlfriend informs me that she is going home with the band's manager, but that I shouldn't take it personally...It's just that her "destiny" is somehow tied to the music business. ooookaaaayyyy.... Concert perseverance award: Peter Gabriel (Womad) - 1994. After a full day of standing in line to get 2nd row center seats and sitting through 6 or 7 bands, my girlfriend offers to make a beer run (yet another beer run). A long time passes and there is no sign of her. Finally, just as Gabriel comes out, she arrives with a large bandage on her face. She appears to be in great pain and bleeding profusely, but insists that she is ok. After the show is over, she tells me that she fell, got treated at the 1st aid tent, and needed to go to the emergency room for stitches. She wasn't about to miss the show... and she even came back with the beer - jumbo size! After that I had to marry her. Now if she just liked XTC...... Before they were famous #1: Red Hot Chili Peppers - 1983 at Medusa's, a local juice bar. They played the entire show with paper bags over their heads. Before they were famous #2: Band-o-rama at the Avalon/Vic. A friend tells me there is a cool band in the other room, so I walk across and watch Smashing Pumpkins with about 20 other people. Most surreal concert experience: Hamer guitar jam 1984 at the Limelight. Stevie Stevens was in the dressing room with an entourage of about 12 people that huddled around him wherever he went. As he walked around, it looked like a rugby scrum with little Stevie as the ball. Before the show Rick Nielson was off in a corner pacing and talking to himself. During the show he started throwing the guitars (provide by Hamer) into the audience while the President of Hamer was fighting his way through the crowd yelling "Nooooooooo!!!" After the show, I hung out with John Mellancamp's band, who totally dissed him, explaining how they would have to show him where to put his fingers on the guitar.
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:56:22 +0200 From: Bergmaier Klaus <klaus.bergmaier@maxonline.at> Subject: Concerts I saw, WS after some weeks Message-ID: <41E0B760C85AD3119BE200E0291B6EE5057C01@NTSRV> Dear all! Here are the big concerts I saw in Vienna/Austria (only some with a comment): 1984: Queen 1987: Genesis (I swore not to go into a stadium again), support: Paul Young (the one still alive) 1988: Level 42 1989: Depeche Mode 1989: Tina Turner (what was I thinking? Someone talked me into it. It was shit because we didn't hear much and it was in a stadium again) 1992: Jazz-Festival with Oregon and Maceo Parker as my personal highlights (Wiesen near Vienna) 1993: Depeche Mode 1993: Jazz-Festival with Lester Bowie and Steve Coleman as my personal highlights (Wiesen near Vienna) 1993: Paul Mc Cartney 1995: Birth Control. I played support with my group at the time "Ozone", a combination of Dream Theater and Uriah Heep. I was allowed to use Birth Control's legendary 1960s Hammond organ plus Leslie. A great night. BC were nice guys. 1998: Yes (I waited for autographs. They all signed with the exeption of thweir new keyboardist. I was pleased to meet a musician eye to eye who played with John Lennon and George Harrison - it is of course their drummer Alan White!) 2000: King Crimson were cancelled! I saw hundreds of other concerts. I ran a jazzclub for a few years. We had "Defunkt", Anthony Braxton, Albert Mangelsdorff, Allan Praskin and others playing. I played more than 100 concerts myself. The last one on August 15th 2000. I wish I had seen (or will see) XTC, the Beatles, John Lennon, George Harrison, Ringo, Squeeze, Primus, King's X, 10CC, Ultravox and Frank Zappa. I listened to WS after some weeks of not doping so. It does even more to me now. Still my favourite track on it: Joe, closely followed by TWATM. My girlfriend asked "Is that Sting?", when she heard "You and the Clouds...". I told her, it was something much better. That was the first time she ever got to like some of the stuff I listen to. Usually she doesn't, although she is a musician herself... Best wishes Klaus
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 23:31:00 +1000 From: "Trevor Matthews" <beebuckle@bigpond.com> Subject: More Concerts Message-ID: <001201c009e1$b7c05260$30bd36cb@trevor> Organization: Grand Order of Beebuckles Hi Chalkhill's children, Just thought I'd tell you about some of the concerts I've seen... 1st concert- The Beatles, in 1964, I was 16 yrs old, they played in Sydney at the old Stadium (where they also had wrestling and boxing - not that night though!). Ringo had tonsilitis and was replaced by the drummer from Georgie Flame's band. I was disappointed they didn't sound real good, maybe it was the sound system or maybe the screaming girls. Anyway just seeing them at that time was enough!! Most enjoyed - The Stones in 1966 in Sydney were just great - They sounded fantastic and there were no screamers. Sorry I missed it- Little Feat were here in 1975 & I didn't go. Been kicking myself ever since. At the time of Black Sea, I saw XTC play at the Family Inn at Rydalmere, Sydney. I was already a fan by then, but seeing them at time made Black Sea my favourite XTC album and still is. Andy was manic and they sounded pretty tight, they did Generals & Majors, Towers of London and Sgt Rock that I particularly recall. Best Concert- The Cure, Early 80's Manly Vale. They just blew me away they were so good I saw them every time they visited Oz ( 3 times in the 80's ). Others I've seen and enjoyed, The Late Ian Dury( talk about manic) and the Blockheads, Elvis C., Kraftwerk, Talking Heads, Split Enz, Devo, Bowie, Neil Young, Beach Boys,Eric Clapton,Mental As Anything, Santana, Echo and the Bunnymen. I saw Simple Minds a couple of times they were good too. There must be others that I've forgotten, that happens when you get older. I like blues as well, but I won't burden you with that list too, except to mention that I saw Buddy Guy (Iain, I think it was earlier than '92) and he was amazing - he did a Hendrix, he played his guitar with his teeth, his dick, his toes and other parts of the body. TTFN, BEEBUCKLE.
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 15:50:55 -0400 From: "Robbie Beck" <rbeck@ec.rr.com> Subject: Concert Faves Message-ID: <000e01c00a16$c994bbe0$56391918@ec.rr.com> Ok, since it seems like no one was lucky enough to have done it yet, I'll add my two cents worth - I am among the profoundly lucky. I saw XTC live at the Agora Ballroom in Atlanta in 1981. Needless to say, it was everything any fan of XTC might have expected it to be - humorous, energetic, intelligent, enlightening, passionate, and a downright blast! I don't claim to have nearly the number of intact brain cells I once had, but that is an experience I'll never forget. Rumors of Andy's stage fright were already circulating and my friends and I knew this might be a rare chance to see him perform - we had no idea it would be our ONLY chance. I'm glad we made the 3.5 hour trip down from Asheville, NC, where we were in college. It was a trip we were to make many more times in various mental states. The Agora was a great place for music - kind of like the House of Blues is now, but with none of the pretense. I was lucky enough to see quite a few shows there - King Crimson (Discipline), Talking Heads (More Songs with just the original 4, and later Remain in Light with Adrian Belew), Black Uhuru, Kid Creole, John McLaughlin (although the best McLaughlin show was at another place in Atlanta called the Great Southeastern Music Hall, with Shakti - 2 times - absolutely religious experience), among others. The only show I have seen to rival Shakti in intensity was a recent show at the Barbican in London by Ravi Shankar. First time I have ever cried during a performance. Purely emotional and spiritual. He is 80 years old and plays this giant sitar with incredible sensitivity, and blazing speed. (George Harrison sat 4 rows in front of us, so I've actually seen a Beatle, too!) But I digress. Needless to say, XTC were right in their element in this intimate and friendly environment, and if Andy Partridge has stage fright, he exhibited none of its symptoms that night. They flat out rocked and seemed to having the times of their lives. So did the audience. I loved the band with Dave Gregory (just think what he might have done with the guitar breaks on Wasp Star!) and Terry Chambers - undoubtedly their best drummer ever. Too bad they couldn't hold it together. Where is Chambers now? Most recent let down was seeing King Crimson at Shepherd's Bush Empire the week after Ravi Shankar. I have seen them several times and have appreciated their music for years, but something about this performance just turned me off completely. They had no soul. Just 4 very good musicians going through the motions - masturbating. It was boring and I left before it was over. Extremely disappointing, and I haven't listened to the new album since. Having been around quite a while, I have been witness to quite a few legends - Led Zeppelin, Clapton (Pete Townsend and Keith Moon made an unscheduled walk-on and they jammed to "Crossroads"), The Who, Yes, (all in their 70's heydays), Iggy Pop, The Replacements, Miles Davis (6 times), The Residents (13th Anniversary Show and Wormwood), Johnny Thunders, Nick Cave, King Sunny Ade, The Dead Kennedys, The Cramps, James Brown (while he was young enough to still do a good split), Roxy Music, Lou Reed, Fripp (on his solo Frippertronics tour at a Peaches Record Store in Atlanta with about 40 people in attendance), Bowie, Peter Tosh - you get the idea. I have been very lucky. I have but two real regrets: I never got to see Bob Marley, and to date I have never seen Brian Eno perform. I'm not giving up on Eno.
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 23:49:24 -0400 From: "Roger Fuller" <fullerfamily@sprintmail.com> Subject: Open ideas....closed minds. Message-ID: <005501c00a59$a2764180$da7fd63f@hp-customer> From: "Michael Versaci" <stormymonday@sprintmail.com> Subject: Do Not Accept Any Checks From The Following People (snip) This can be done at the "post" level, or at the "poster" level.Example I. "Post" Level:Chris Coolidge >When it comes to gun control, you have two realistic choices, disarm everybody or allow everybody concealed weapons.< >While some of his observations are worthy of a response, this one clearly isn't. Why not? I have no idea what this is all about, but I'm open-minded, and everybody is a worth a listen. You have obviously thrown out a red herring by attacking the original poster by attempting to censor him by advocating that others ignore him. Speak up- what's your explanation for your non-position, please? Is the free exchange of ideas, even about XTC and its relationship to the politics that Andy P. injects himself into with his music (although he steadfastly refuses to vote...) something that makes you uncomfortable? It sure doesn't bother Andy to talk about issues..... >No, I won't explain why, because if you can't see it, my explanation >won't help. Obviously your argument is so superior that us poor benighted serfs would not grasp the logic of it, but why don't you run it by us, and see if it survives the light of day. That's part of the exchange of ideas in a free society. Try it- you'll like it! Why am I suddenly reminded of Richard Nixon's secret plan to end the war in Viet Nam "I'm sorry- I can't tell you- it wouldn't be secret anymore" he advocated in his election campaign back when I was a boy? His plan turned out to be a crock..... >Moreover, I would be in violation of my own proposition. And that would be?..... >Example II. "Poster" Level:You *KNOW* who I'm talking about... >Just ignore him. Michael Versaci Yeah... sure, Mike, uh, whatever you say. Well...you (must) know better than us- I guess(?) :^) Ah, yes....it's good to be back. Loving "Wasp Star"- and freedom of speech (void where prohibited by law!). Roger Fuller "Liberty and justice for all... who agree with me" --JOHN HANCOCK
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 20:43:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Radios In Motion <radiosinmotion@iwon.com> Subject: Re: misc Message-ID: <383369578.966732231470.JavaMail.root@web193-iw> Mike Say's: "- Hey "Radios in Motion", did you ever consider that when you say things like another person is "quite ignorant" or they're a "smart-a** little kid", that might just be a little inflammatory and insulting?" Then he say's: "Your posts have fallen into the "automatic page-down" category, friend." I say: Obviously you did not "page down" because you read into my response. Go read his message before bashing me. I responded. He said ignorent things. I have been called out when I said ignorent things and I took it back or learned from a mistake. So, I pointed out that he was acting ignorent. If you read his post, he was acting like a little kid plain and simple. Im not sure how old he is, but I can tell by his response he is under 18. Anyway, that is all I have to say on this subject. Oh, but you did not read it right? You paged down!
------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 21:01:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Radios In Motion <radiosinmotion@iwon.com> Subject: Re: Samples, schmamples Message-ID: <380348541.966733263850.JavaMail.root@web193-iw> I agree 100% JH3 and you must have misread my message. I don't mind loops as much as some of you, but at the same point, I know they are not the same thing as a sampled second of time from an instrument. My point was that most rap groups (80%) do not use loops from other groups. If they do use loops of anything, its something they programmed themselves. The only rap that does get mainstream success however is rap that uses loops of other peoples music. Which is why that is the only stuff you hear. If we are going to blame anyone, blame radio stations. They hear something familiar and put it on the air but when people like "The Roots" (A full live Hip-Hop group that plays Jazz) plays real instruments, they get no airplay on rap/pop radio. As I said, if you investigate it further you will find that most rap groups don't just use loops of other peoples music, only the popular radio played groups do, which are less then 10% of the Hip-Hop community. Out of the 80% that does not use samples only as their music, about 60% of them use little no no sampling on their albums. Most rap artists you don't see with live bands because they tend to be hired musicians. They press the live music onto records and have a DJ spin it. However, a lot of groups like The Roots, De La Soul and many others use live bands at their show. I don't want to be a hypocrite, but one of my favorite songs is "Machines Aint Music" by Mojo Nixon. You can get it on Napster if you have Napigator. I don't think its available anymore. It's mostly talking about Techno though.. Its a funny song. If more country sounds like Mojo Nixon, than I guess I am now a country fan!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:01:54 EDT
From: KINGSTUNES@aol.com
Subject: While my guitar gently plays 32nd note runs
Message-ID: <d0.a03995b.26d0b232@aol.com>
Corrections:
That Jefferson Airplane reunion tour was '89, not '79. Grace and her panda
song,
yeesh!
And I meant Rodriquez when I was dropping Spanish composer names. The piece
of course was the Concerto De Aranjuez. El senor momento.
Also - someone at work believes that the quote I attributed to Casey Stengel,
about
the 90% of the game being half mental, was actually Yogi Berra. Anyone
know for sure? Zen American!
************************
Saddest XTC song for me - Rook
************************
Alright, one more time and I'm outta here on this one. Promise.
>Well, got to disagree Kingstune. George was quite a good guitar player. His
>slide work was always memorable
I never said he wasn't! Re-read my post. I said "I adore George's playing".
Context, please! What I'm saying is that he couldn't play that flamenco
lick. No shame in that.
>Harrison's solo work and later Beatle albums have some marvelous moments on
>them. I don't doubt with enough practice George could pick it up (after all,
>McCartney did on Flaming Pie and a couple of other albums).
First, you have no idea the amount of practice involved. I'm serious! And
even if he was going too, he would have done it and would have continued
displaying that newly achieved ability. He hasn't. Second, I haven't heard
Flaming Pie yet, but I'll bet Paul did not, not like the player on the
sample. I will attempt to hear it, to be fair, but....
>George's early solos are simple because he was told to play what George
>Martin would pluck out on the piano. He had little say as to what he could
>play then. Martin's main concern was making sure the solo was short, sweet
>and melodic. Complexity wasn't the the point. Around Help & Rubber Soul
>George finally got his say as to what he would play (although if Paul wrote
>it or the bulk of it, anyway, he would frequently suggest solos to George as
>well).
Don't tell me you read this somewhere. Good Lord! Your first point is
erroneous, for starters. A lot of George's early stuff was NOT simple.
Listen to 'Till There Was You. I still haven't figured out that dominant.
Very sophisticated. Also, George was a *rock* guitarist, steeped in the
older rockabilly traditions of the fifties. You can hear Chuck, Carl, Scotty
Moore, Gene Vincent and so on in his early solos. George Martin did NOT bang
THAT stuff out on a piano and tell George to play like that! He knew better
to stay out of the way there, my friend. Besides, as proof of the pudding,
just listen to George play on the old live Hamburg recordings and the Decca
tapes, pre Martin. I don't hear much editing in the transition. I think the
Beatles were quite succesful as their own musical editors by the time Martin
started with them. And yes, George did open up more on the later albums, but
the music was changing and their abilities were maturing. As for Paul, truth
be known that he would often play his own leads when he wanted something
specific. George had to bear some dictating, but he got his fair share of
playing in. BTW, I think that the lead on Something is one of the most
beautiful leads ever recorded on a rock record. You can bet Paul didn't tell
him what to play there.
I understand what you good people are trying to say and it's very noble to
stick up for our heros, but to me this is as clear cut as anything I've
gotten into here. George was a rock player. His style morphed a little from
rockabilly to Claptonesque, but it was still rock, based on blues. It
involved hammer-ons, pull-offs, bends, double-stop slides and all sorts of
diddly diddlies involving the *left* hand. It's VERY different from styles
where each note is articulated with the *right* hand, whether with a pick or
with the fingers. That type of playing requires enormous amounts of
practice, and a continued dedication to maintain. Classical and flamenco
players do it with alternating fingertips, while jazz, bluegrass and hot shot
hard rock players do it with a pick. When I said that George did not have
the *kind* of chops to play that lick, I was referring to the two totally
different styles, his and that of the flamenco player on the Bungalow Bill
sample. His right hand was not developed technically enough to do it. His
shortest route there would be with a pick, but that's not what the player on
the sample used. He used his fingers. You have to in flamenco, otherwise
you couldn't perform the rasguedo techniques in the strumming sections of
flamenco dance music. George would have to start from scratch there. He
would still have a long way to go using a pick.
But George is a wonderful player. There is nothing wrong with saying you
can't do something. You can't master everything, and you don't have to. Cut
him some slack!
To bring this full circle to XTC, let's use Andy and Greggsy as an example.
Andy is a very left hand oriented player, while Dave had far better control
with a pick. That made them a good compliment to each other, and I think
that's what people have been missing on the AV albums. If either of them
were to try the Bungalow Bill lick, I think: Andy, no way Jose! Dave, a
shot, but only with a pick.
Now I'm going to say something really outrageous. (Lock & load your
flamethrowers!) Besides George, here are some others I think could *not*
play that flamenco lick at the height of their abilities -
Clapton, Page, Hendrix, Beck, Blackmore, Zappa, Townsend, Lee, Perry, Trower,
Summers, SRV, Walsh, Baxter, Green, Taylor, etc. etc. For the reasons I
gave above. I'd bet $500 at the drop of a hat that they would agree to a
man, as well. With no shame, either. Apples & Oranges & Lemons. (Oh my!)
Who could? well, with a pick, players like DiMeola, McLaughlin, Morse and
fusion players in general; possibly VanHalen, Iommi, and their spawn, the
Paganini's of metal such as Yngwie, Satriani, etc who devoted endless bedroom
hours with tabs and exercises for the right hand.
With the fingers, well, any top notch classical and/or flamenco player (with
years of practice and seasoning). In the sixties rock world, the one who
would have had the best shot would have been Robbie Krieger, because he
studied classical and had a jump on the technique. But he had other things
on his mind, like George did....
Now, after I've babbled on, go listen to it. Pay attention to the speed, the
assurance and the articulation of every note with the right hand. You'll see
the light.
Or better yet, go play an XTC record! 'Cause we're all light! (I heard that
someplace)
Tom "El Llama es un quadroped! " Kingston
"Always remember to look both ways
to please and thank you and curtsey twice
before you gore the sacred dinosaur" - KG
------------------------------ End of Chalkhills Digest #6-247 *******************************
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20 August 2000 / Feedback