Chalkhills Digest Volume 6, Issue 217
Date: Tuesday, 1 August 2000
Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 217
Tuesday, 1 August 2000
Topics:
"Give the singer some!"
bleeeeeeeeecccccccchhhhhhhhhh!!!!! newage music
(c)rap and other music
We're All Light(the video)
unsub
Neil Young
Young - A Road to Self Actualization
OK.
Annoying the 'rents; An XTC Spotting
Will this finish the argument?
As another new thread unravels..
Pop, torch, and twang
Paul Simon's Graceland
Late In The Evening
Other (Good) Bands
Administrivia:
To UNSUBSCRIBE from the Chalkhills mailing list, send a message to
<chalkhills-request@chalkhills.org> with the following command:
unsubscribe
For all other administrative issues, send a message to:
<chalkhills-request@chalkhills.org>
Please remember to send your Chalkhills postings to:
<chalkhills@chalkhills.org>
World Wide Web: <http://chalkhills.org/>
The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.
Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7b (John Relph <relph@tmbg.org>).
If we listen quietly we can hear them shooting from grave to grave.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 02:53:09 GMT From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@hotmail.com> Subject: "Give the singer some!" Message-ID: <F2113RErtQQJuwNDnCw000011f5@hotmail.com> "Give the singer some" Sorry folks - another bitsy post. I'm still catching up because my home computer has died (*sob!*) and the Brain Police don't like us using work computers for Fun, let alone Self-Expression. Before I go any further: Way to go: Victor Rocha!! The revolution may not be televised, but there's still an outside chance you can catch it on streaming video. * * * re: The Doors From: rnv@mac.com >It may just be that Jim Morrison (as opposed to the Doors) is simply >an >easy target for ridicule and that the Doors got dragged into it. Why? Because he dared to recite poetry? Because he got a bit fat later on? >Yes: Jim and Phil and Gordy are Andy Partridge with the humor glands > >forcibly removed by their adoring fanbase or crushed under the weight >of >their ponderous, bloated egos. No offence to Phil or Sting, but I don't place them in the same league as Jim at all! And I just can't buy the argument that Morrison had no sense of humour. I think a lot of his stuff was loaded with humour and irony. What about that "...petition the Lord with prayer.." bit on "Absolutely Live"? Hilarious! Or the way he was always bunging on that Southern accent for effect. The guy had his tongue firmly planted in his cheek a lot of the time, but nobody seems to notice. I'm not saying the guy wasn't in need of a little reality check now and then, but in his position, who wouldn't be? As for the value of otherwise of his poetry ... well, I am not a big poetry reader, to be honest -- I like what I like, but I don't read poetry widely and have never found it all that compelling to me as an art form. But for some people, like Jim, it's a very important form of expression, and I respect that. I also know people who are poets and writers themslves (professional, not self-professed) who have always liked and admired Jim's lyrics, at least. I don't know what they think of his poetry, but personally I've read a lot worse. It's easy to make jibes these days, and equally it's easy to forget (or not know) how utterly different American culture was when Morrison was growing up. Wanting to be a Poet in early 1960s America was seen as totally deviant desire by the Establishment. It would have been a pretty challenging, mysterious, alluringly dangerous thing to be - especially if your dad was a high-ranking US Navy officer. Being a pop-star AND a poet? Heresy in extremis. >Now, there are a few parallels between each of these guys and Andy... >Jim recited his (often meaningless and always pompous and > >pseudointellectual) poetry to music <snip> >But Jim was such a ramrod Amurican with as much a sense of humor as a >wet >cat, that he just puffed up into a great Hindenburg of >self-importance >and burst. Sorry "rnv" but, for mine, that doesn't come under the heading "reasoned and reasonable". That's just mean-spirited invective. Try again. He was anything BUT a ramrod American. And now ... Dom - you know I love you -- in a purely platonic, blokey way of course -- but I can't let your anti-Jim tirade pass without comment: >I also think The Doors were, and are, vastly overrated. And I smoke >pot. >Go figure. I know what you're saying about Break On Through and >so on... >they certainly produced some classic tunes & I wouldn't >pretend otherwise >(well, unless there was some cheap joke to be made >at someone's expense), >but come on! Morrison was a fat, drunk idiot >whose lyrics sucked harder >than an industrial Dyson, and whose >poetry was even worse. The rest of the >band looked like a bunch of >history teachers Ooooh, give him a bowl of milk! Actually, they looked like a bunch of arts students ... which of course they were. >and rhyming "fire" with "pyre" and "desire" is only one step away >from the >old "sky", "why", >"fly", "pie" routine so beloved of Cast >and fuck-wits >around the world. Come on baby, run my bath more >like... *sigh* ... here we go again. For starters: "Light My Fire" was written by Robby Krieger, not Morrison (although Morrison always praised Robby as a great pop songwriter, which he was, and often regretted that Robby's contributions to The Doors'songwriting were overlooked because people thought Jim wrote all the lyrics, which he didn't.) Second: I'm not a poet, but anyone who can come up with lines like "Your fingers weave quick minarets" is a pretty fair writer IMHO. Personally, I think it's nifty. Call me a fool - I know you will anyway. And what the hell else are you going to rhyme "Fire" with anyway, smartypants? I've always found Morrison a compelling and intruiging figure, simply because you can't pigeonhole him - he's full of contradictions. People selectively focus on one aspect of his personality or behaviour -- the Fat Drunk Jim is usually the choice -- and write him off because he lost control for a bit. Well I'm sorry but that's an easy target for a cheap shot. The guy made an amazing transformation, from the chubby, unpopular, unhappy loner son of a conservative military family, to college druggo dropout, to svelte, articulate rock god, sex-idol of millions, terror of the Establishment, poet, singer, songwriter, filmaker and performance artist of international repute. Yes, he was also overblown, grandiose, egotistical and perhaps pompous at times -- but do you think the role he chose called for less? Actually he played it to perfection if you ask me. Who would remember him if had given it anything other than than the maximum? If you think for a second that Morrison was not aware of the extent to which he was playing out a part, you're fooling yourself. I don't doubt he got caught up in it to some degree, but I also don't doubt that the tremendous irony of his own stardom was ever-present in his mind. Let's not forget that he deliberately chose to walk away from it all, once he felt that he had taken it as far as he could. Imagine how bonecrushingly, Stonesishly, stadium HUUUGE they *could* have become if he had stayed with them to tour after "L.A. Woman" came out? But no - he saw that it was time to go and he graciously, quietly went. I also think it's pretty hypocritical to simultaneously bag Morrison while leaping to the rabid defence of The Sex Pistols, when in fact they have a lot more in common than most people would care to admit. Morrison and Lydon were both classic outsiders, both were articulate, cynical and media-savvy, and both used the forum of rock music to (A) reinvent themselves and (B) stage an ongoing Situationist-style theatre of confrontation in and around the relationship between rock music and the mass-media. The only major difference was that rock itself was still new and threatening when Morrison started out. When Lydon arrived it was old and fat. Lydon merely took his confrontation one logical step further by *publicly* repudiating the previous generation and the ethos that Morrison belonged to, or at least was seen to represent -- which had become the orthodoxy. (But ONLY publicly, mind -- in private of course they cheerfully admitted to loving The Monkees and The Small Faces and The Who as much as anyone else with sense and taste). I also point to the fact that the Pistols self-destructed after only one album (more or less), whereas the Doors managed to survive five years, produce six studio albums (all of which are at least good and most of which are great) plus a terrific live double album, which effectively set the benchmark for all subsequent efforts in this genre, and remains a testament to what a superb live act they really were. Another point: Morrison, as the sole public focus of the group, deliberately played out both the Apollonian and Dionysiac elements of this 'theatre' himself. (I for one tend to believe that he was *deliberately* destroying his own image in the last couple of years, pushing as far as it could go in all directions. Like Hendrix, he realised very quickly that he was a prisoner of other people's expectations). Fortunately however, Lydon was spared this necessity, since the self-destructive side of this theatre was played out through and on Sid Vicious, who was duly served up as the required ritual sacrifice, and did it pretty damned efficiently. Lydon lived on, and can now happily reinvent history and himself, and do Filthy Lucre tours and cable TV shows to his heart's content. Jim, sadly, had no such luck. * * * >From: Mark <mwot4794@mail.usyd.edu.au> >Subject: A nervous introduction Welcome Mark! Another Aussie Chalker! Woo-hoo! Let's go to the pub! >(quick namecheck: Soul Coughing, Tom Waits, XTC (of course), Jane's >Addiction, Nick Cave, Ben Harper, Radiohead, Primus, Mike Watt, > >Gomez,Elvis Costello, Morphine, Skunkhour, Sly and the Family Stone, > >Living Colour, Massive Attack, Miles Davis, Charles Mingus, and > >Thelonious Monk. >Am I entirely out of place?) You are home and hosed. Anyone who likes Monk is OK by me! I can overlook the Nick Cave :p * * * Favourite comedy albums? I played thoose Python albums SO many times it feels like it's in my DNA, so I vote for anything by the gigantically brilliant and spaced-out Ivor Cutler (e.g. "Life In A Scotch Sitting Room"), whose records were uinlike anythign I had ever heard before, and above all for my sublimely wonderful BBC album of the immortal Gerard Hoffnung/Charles Richardson recordings: CR: "Do you like sport, Mr Hoffnung?" GH: "Oh, yes, I love sport. I rather like that game where everyone is asleep out in a field, and then it's starts raining, and they all wake up and someone says "Oh, well played, sir!" CR: "Oh you mean cricket?" GH: "Yes cricket -- that's it!" * * * >From: SPitts@thesaurus-computers.co.uk >Tallywhacker? Nooo, not exactly. You're close. Think about it. >Nadgers is >plural. Plural? ... or collective? * * * I almost forgot: over the weekend I was driving home and heard -- in stereo for the first time -- that lavish old 70s Beach Boys soundalike/tribute called "Beach Baby" (which was a biggish hit over here ca. ?1974?). Does anyone know the story behind this single and who wrote/performed/produced it? Without doubt it's a massive tribute to Brian, and the production is pretty amazing. Must have cost a bomb. Any clues? And did we all know that Brian is currently touring with group + orchestra, doing the whole "Pet Sounds" album live on stage? Paul Culnane alerted me to this last week; I have not stopped weeping yet. I can only hope that some kindly god will inpsire a TV network to tape at least one performance for posterity. Dunks
------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:27:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt <tahewitt@yahoo.com> Subject: bleeeeeeeeecccccccchhhhhhhhhh!!!!! newage music Message-ID: <20000731032746.10850.qmail@web2102.mail.yahoo.com> RE: Alright, so we've gone past artists that suck and are now listing those bands that make us physically sick... Not a band, but a type of music (if it can be called that). I find that New Age (I use the Penn & Teller description 'newage' to rhyme w/ sewage) music makes me VERY tense. Literally. It has the opposite effect on me that it's supposed to have. All this really tepid, bad, random synth noodling by long-haired guys with blissed-out expresions on their faces makes me want to scream. I feel my back muscles tightening up whenever I hear that crap. Almost as bad but w/o the negative physiological effect is that horrid fusion shit they play during the local forcast on the Weather Channel. Sends me running for the mute button every time!
------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:21:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Tyler Hewitt <tahewitt@yahoo.com> Subject: (c)rap and other music Message-ID: <20000731042133.20816.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> Lots of posts lately about rap, both pro and con, and some accusations that those who dismiss rap dom't have open minds, etc. Thought I'd throw out some opinions, half-truths and rants: 1. Whether or not you admit it, you (the person reading this) and nearly everyone else is opinionated when it comes to musical tastes. Of course we all like some music better than others. Being opinionated is not the same as being narrow minded. 2. People should be allowed their opinions regarding music without having their integrity questionined. I have been offended on a few occasions when it was suggested that my dislike of rap made me a racist. A claim of this nature only iluminates the microscopic intellect of the person utterting it. I have extremely broad tastes in music, and I do mean extremely. I seem to like nearly every genre of music I can think of, although the list of artists I like within each genre seems to be fairly narrow. I am equally comforatble with XTC, John Coltrane, Gyorgi Ligeti, Doc Watson, Johnny Cash, Otis Redding, Joni Mitchell, mariachi music, gamelan music, Negativland, the Beatles, ec. etc. etc. That said, there are music genres that I for the most part have no use for. Rap, Techno, death metal, contemporary r&b, newage, and celtic are among these. None of this makes me narrow-minded. I have owned cd's in all of the catagories listed above. Still do own a couple of rap cd's, and maybe a couple of things that would be classified as newage (that Partridge/Budd cd, for example). I worked in a record store for three years while preparing for graduate school. Beleive me, I have had wide exposure to a huge variety of music in all genres and varying widely in terms of quality. My tastes are not a result of lack of exposure or narrow-mindedness. I also have no qualms about expressing opinions regarding bands/musicians,etc.that I think suck. I'm not a musician. I have no loyalty to sampled vs. played instruments. I love Andre Segovia, I love John Oswald. they both have their merits. I listen to music for intellectual and/or emotional impact. In fact, I think the issue of played vs. sampled is for the most part pointless. Postmodern artistic practice had (I thought) worked all that out already. It may just be that the IDEA is key, not how that idea is made manifest. The world has experienced John Cage and Marcel Duchamp, it's too late to turn back now! Rap, with its sampling, is valid as music. I don't like it personally, but don't question the validity or worth of the sampling it utilizes. I do think that sampling works better in the hands of people who understand concepts of recontextualization, emergance, and recursion. I have yet to hear ANY rap that uses samples for other than musical texture (well, there might be a little recontextualization on the first De La Soul album). Again, I said it works BETTER when the peformer is knowledgeable in these concepts. I didn't say that sampling in Rap doesn't work. That said, I think that Rap ties with newage for being the most non-musical music I've heard (throw in the first few Swans' lp's and The Gerogeregegege as well). Actually, I've heard some John Cage that sounds pretty non-musical to my untrained, uneducated ears. I guess my point in all of this is to admit to my musical prejudices, and goad everyone else into admitting theirs while accepting others'. And to put and end to the boring rap posts!
------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:48:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Brown <mb2@deltanet.com> Subject: We're All Light(the video) Message-ID: <200007310548.WAA02866@mail2.deltanet.com> Hi there, sugarbeets! <<New thread suggestion:>> <<Has anyone thought about which WS song you'd like to see up on the little screen?>> Great idea, Deb.. (thanks!) I'd like to see a video for We're All Light. I see it filmed in black and white, and it's a heavily scratched print (like an old news reel)- We find ourselves in the home library of German physicist, Max Planck. He sits at a cluttered desk, furiously scribbling out his ideas on the properties of light. I see Colin playing the part of Planck. Distinguished and scholarly in his tweed suit, wouldn't Colin be perfect? (though I can't quite imagine Colin affecting a convincing German accent..but who knows?) Frustrated and exhausted, (Colin)Planck nods off.. Rising up from the pages of notes, Andy appears.. He's wearing tights and a cape, the whole comic book hero costume.. nothing too revealing.. (is there such a thing as 'age appropriate' super hero gear?) Andy Partridge is Photon Boy and he's materialized in this particular form so he can enlighten Herr Planck (wake up, Max.. it's revelation time!), as well as have the kind of adventures that only a particle of light can have! What kind of adventures, you ask? I haven't thought that far ahead, though it does seem ripe with possibilities.. now I ask YOU, who amongst us hasn't imagined our Andy in tights and a cape?.. (oh no! did I just think that or did I say it?) Forget what I just said. Anyway, Andy has always been a frustrated comic book hero of sorts.. he'd soar in this role. (all puns apply)- That's all I have.. looking forward to hearing more of your ideas, Chalkers. Debora Brown *answer- Mr. Tube is one grand fish!
------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:37:12 -0700 From: Eb <gondola@deltanet.com> Subject: unsub Message-ID: <f04310107b5aacea79234@[206.173.240.165]> This list is best taken in small doses. See ya when the next album's due. Eb
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 06:31:55 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <cauldron@together.net> Subject: Neil Young Message-ID: <l03130300b5ab105afc09@[209.91.2.69]> >Alright, so we've gone past artists that suck and are now listing those >bands that make us physically sick. O.K. It is with much physical hatred >and hostility that I type this "artists" name.... Neil Young! His voice >makes me cringe. His guitar playing sounds as if the guitar is begging to >be euthanized. Back in college my housemates had a band and they would >cover Neil Young songs. Consequently, many of those housemates are heroin >heads now... > >I really don't want my Chalkhill brethren to think that I have a violent >streak, but if we were cave people I would definitely be clubbing old Neil >down to an unrecognizable and silent bundle of fur and stringy hair. I'll go easy with you and restrain violent impulses on this one; though I consider Neil Young one of the great songwriters in rock and roll history who somehow improves with age(most of his work in the 90's was better and more clearheaded than anything else he'd ever done), I'll concede his voice is not for everybody and his guitar playing, though as technically proficient as any other great guitarist, is an acquired taste. Neil does have too much of a penchant for steel wool guitar solos. If he's not to your taste, that's your business, but you can't deny his influence; he wasn't called the Godfather of Grunge for nothing. The likes of Dinosaur Jr and Sonic Youth would have been unimaginable without him, and both bands have covered his material in the past. If you hate heroin so much, you must REALLY hate Lou Reed; Neil himself hasn't touched the stuff since the late 70's at the very latest, he's been too busy raising two kids with cerebral palsy(one's hard enough, but two? I don't know how he does it) and raising money for the school he helped found that they attend with other severely handicapped kids. You can still hate his music if you like; Air Supply's not my cup of tea either, but they're probably nice guys who love their mothers, and my wife loves them. No accounting for taste; my brother could never get into XTC because he doesn't like Andy's voice. He loves the Dukes though. Go figure. Christopher R. Coolidge Homepage at http://homepages.together.net/~cauldron/homepage.html
------------------------------ Date: 31 Jul 2000 07:37:00 -0700 From: unna@worldmailer.com Subject: Young - A Road to Self Actualization Message-ID: <20000731143700.21291.cpmta@c008.sfo.cp.net> In a previous post I revealed my deepest feelings for Neil Young (his music). It was very hard for me to share something so personal, but since I trust you all so much, I took a full breath and opened up.(hug?) Some of those feelings were primal and hostile, but I must own up to them if I am ever to understand them (like, wow). Then, on 7/27 Duncan Watt typed: >Sad to say it, but up until just a few years ago, I'dda gonna lonnga with >you, unna, on that one. Then I realized just what Mr. Young was trying to >do... and I Liked It. He don't need you around, anyhow, so to speak. And then I realize it! I had projected Neil Young onto my very own Ugly Underneath! Neil Young's voice and that guitar note he (always) plays had actually BECOME the physical representation of all that I despise about MYSELF! None of this illumination would have been possible without Neil Young, therefore I NEED HIM! But seriously folks, If I were to start liking Neil Young I wouldn't be at all surprised, I mean, I didn't like olives till last year, so... >ps plus, clubs just bounce right off guys like Neil... I hope so because I felt shame for typing such violence - very harmful to hit with clubs.
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 11:12:17 -0400 From: "Martin, Alan" <Alan.Martin@ncxix.hcg.eds.com> Subject: OK. Message-ID: <B812DC6BF121D411B3FE00508B0B94222E8B66@chowan.ncxix.hcg.eds.com> In #6-212 LawsonD wrote in response: AM>>As for melody, very few "Rap songs" have a melody as such and if they do, they are mundane at best. LD>>A case in point. This statement has no basis in reality. MOST rap songs have melody, it's just that the lyrics are spoken and (generally) not sung. For fuck's sake. AM>>But keep in mind I am referring to "Mainstream Rap" records not "Rap" as a whole or idea. LD>> Oh, well that's alright then. Like you know the difference! Pah!!! Mark Strijbos wrote in response: AM> Go ahead, flame away. I haven't stated anything that you couldn't AM> find proof for yourself given a little time and a sample of AM> mainstream "Rap" recordings. LD>> or in other words: i'm stupid because i haven't noticed this yet Geesh! You guys are vicious! I stand by my words.
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:23:29 -0400 From: "Duncan Watt" <dwatt@fastestmanintheworld.com> Subject: Annoying the 'rents; An XTC Spotting Message-ID: <200007311926.PAA19991@gilgamesh.nh.ultra.net> Some old guy <KINGSTUNES@aol.com> wailed: > It scares me that every time a car of teens pull > up with music blaring, it's fucking rap! They are eschewing one of the >greatest and most joyful elements of human life. No they're not, they're listening to loud, parent-and-old-duffers-who- should-know-better-annoying pop music in the car with friends, which is definitely one of the greatest and most joyful elements of human life, at least if you grew up where I did. What the hell do you *expect* them to try and annoy you with? "The Lemon Song"? "Big Ten Inch"? "Dear God"? "Purple Haze"? "Whole Lotta Rosie"? C'mon, think back, man... SCENE: Family yelling, stomping feet ascending stairs... CUE Little Tom: "You CAN'T tell me what to do! I HATE you!" (slams bedroom door, rushes to sadly anemic Emerson stereo system, stabs at 'On' button while grabbing 'Volume' and *invoking* the sweet blast to the only correct setting: *all the fucking way up*... Bless their criminal little souls, at least the kids are resourceful... long live loud lecherous keep-me-from-killing-my-parents-right-the-fuck-now ROCK! ... *ahem*, give me a moment to compose myself...okay. So, anywho, I was drivin' out towards Concord, Massachusetts last Saturday afternoon and I'm listening to "Only A Game" on NPR(okay sports fans, you can laugh if you want to, but it gets better) and there's a piece on Competitive Wife-Carrying. Seems this is something *real* Finnish People do when the skiing's Gone South... So after much explaining that you don't actually have to be a Wife to be carried(this is, after all, NPR), and that the winners take home their Wife's Weight In Beer, they went on to cover the actual event, which entails some poor sap running up and down a ski run in the summer with the Old Bag on his back, screaming in his ear "Go FASTER, you SACK of...". There's even a Water Obstacle. Mind-bending metaphors aside, why the story, you might ask, hm? Because at the end of the radio piece(and all of you cool Kreidebergers have already gleaned it, ha'n't'cha?), up comes the rockin' strains of what has become my vote for Number One Most Apropos Usage Of A Sadly Obscure Rock Song To Outro A Radio Piece... "Wounded Horse"! Yeah! "Well I stumbled...duh...ne-nuh!... and I fell...duh...ne-nuh!... like a woooo- duh...ne-nuh! ...ooounded horse...duh...ne-nuh!..." Yeah! And they outro-ed the whole show on it, so it was on pretty much in it's entirety, they even edited on the sad little ending. Bravo! Duncan "...we will not let him go/LET HIM GO!" Watt ps okay, that was *me* with the Emerson stereo. pps re: Wife-Carrying... I'm partial to the Estonian Carry, myself... http://www.sonkajarvi.fi:1997/kunta/eukonkanto/english/eukko1.jpg ppps Entrance Form here: http://www.sonkajarvi.fi:1997/kunta/eukonkanto/english/ -- email me: ron@fastestmanintheworld.com surf me: http://www.fastestmanintheworld.com
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:45:29 EDT From: "Kevin Diamond" <kev_boy@hotmail.com> Subject: Will this finish the argument? Message-ID: <LAW-F199C0H4TMyn8B40000b72f@hotmail.com> Look, one of the biggest arguments people have had against rap has been that it only uses samples. But if you use that as an excuse against all rap, you have to realize that rap isn't the only genre that does that. The perfect example hit me today when this particular song was played for the 3rd time today while I was at work (I didn't choose the radio station). The new song by Jessica "Not The Real Killer" Simpson called something like "I Think I'm In Love." The entire song is just a loop of the begining of "Jack and Diane" by John Cugar Melencamp. It's a pop song, but it too is using a sample, and the result is worse then most rap songs I here with samples. Also, I have recorded one or two raps with my band for shits and giggles, and we play all the music ourself, we use no samples. So there. In a future time, children will work together, to build a giant Cy-Boooorg! Kevin "Robot Parade! Robot Parade!" Diamond
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:34:14 EDT From: WTDK@aol.com Subject: As another new thread unravels.. Message-ID: <64.522d979.26b71296@aol.com> In a message dated 7/31/00 9:19:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <owner-chalkhills@chalkhills.org> writes: > With that in mind, I'll suggest a thread: What pop/rock artist, that you > like (almost?) as much as XTC, sounds the most different from XTC? > > I'll start the bidding with Graham Parker. > > regards > MJC I'd nominate Roxy Music (all their stuff between 72-75). On the Paul Simon thread--I'm a little surprised to see so much Paul Simon bashing. The guy is an incredible songwriter when he is at the top of his game. I personally like Graceland quite a bit (although I will admit that the album got more recognition than other artists that had been doing the same thing, i.e., Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel and Xtc). The King commented: Oddly, with the departure of the underrated frontman Gene Clarke, they went on to do what I consider their true classic albums, 5D and nearly faultless Younger Than Yesterday (Their best and their peak, IMHO.) Even Notorious Byrd Brothers was strong. As a longtime fan of the Byrds I have to agree although I do think that when Graham Parsons joined the band they recaptured some of that fire that disappeared later. Untitled (which, by the way, has just been reissued with an additional disc of material) is another fine album. Clarence White was an underrated guitarist. It's sad that he was taken away from us so soon... Duncan observed: Zimmy, however -- and this IS a personal view -- seems to have gradually slipped away from us. I have not heard anything of his (with the solitary exception of "Series of Dreams" or whetever it was) that comes anywhere near the standard he maintained through the 60s and early 70s. It took me a long time to acquire a taste for Bob Dylan. I personally felt he ran out of gas around Nashville Skyline. Nevertheless, he occasionally comes up with an interesting gem. from Minerworks: I'd love to hear some comments from people about the "feel" of the original vinyl LPs versus the CD remasters of albums up through My vinyl version of Skylarking and English Settlement were the best versions until the past couple of years. MFSL's Skylarking sounds amazing. I picked up an overseas version of English Settlement that is almost as good as the vinyl version. My Japanese version of Mummer sounds pretty good (although I have to admit that I've never listened to the Geffen or Virgin UK versions). The new Fossil Fuel sounds better than most of the Virgin albums. Still, I'd love to see someone do what the Japanese did with the Kinks reissues (although with the bonus tracks at the end of the CD). Wayne
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:08:37 EDT From: Jxnsmom@aol.com Subject: Pop, torch, and twang Message-ID: <20.96d2a9d.26b71aa5@aol.com> MJC said: << With that in mind, I'll suggest a thread: What pop/rock artist, that you like (almost?) as much as XTC, sounds the most different from XTC? >> Fun thread idea! For me, that would be k.d. lang. Amy N.
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:09:40 GMT From: "Ralph Simpson DeMarco" <sawpit@hotmail.com> Subject: Paul Simon's Graceland Message-ID: <LAW-F164IN4MmXKCnzN00000b4f@hotmail.com> Dear Affiliated Members: Sorry about attributing the wrong name to someone else's post! Finally! (I hope that) Dunks wrote: >>In closing I also have to defend Paul Simon. I was not an early convert to >>the "Graceland" thing, but it really grew on me, and he did more to >>popularise South African township music around the world than anyone >>before or since. I hardly imagine people like Ladysmith Black Mambazo, >>Miriam Makeba or Hugh Masekela would work with him at all if he was the >>kind of artist he is accused of being. I think the attacks tagging him a >>tokenist and cultural plunderer were stupid and shortsighted, then and >>now. The fact is he has been bringing in elements of other styles >>eversince the Simon & Garfunkel days (remember "El Condor Pasa"?). He has >>consistently striven to broaden his musical palette with styles from all >>over the world. Why is this OK for, say, Peter Gabriel, but not OK for >>Paul Simon? Surely his using elements of township music, gospel or South >>American folk music is no stranger than a Jewish kid from New York singing Anglo-American folk music -- a talent for which he was lionised, and something he evidently should not have progressed beyond, in the minds of some people.>> First off, I am not a rabid fan of Paul Simon's solo music. But I do think that Graceland is his best. The reason why Simon was attacked by many in and out of the music industry was, really, because in 1986, Mandella was still in prison, and Apartheid was alive and well. As you know, many boycotted Sun City concerts and, in effect, drew a line in the sand. Now, I agreed with all the sanctions and the boycotts, but what got lost is that for some, music transcends political debates over international policy. The musicians you mention in your post were not the international stars that they are today. Suggesting that they were "exploited" by Simon implies that they did not benefit from the collaboration - and we all know that they did. OK, I knew about them from listening to Pacifica Radio, but the wider public did not. For some people, music brings people together. I defended Simon then, and I am more adamant about it now. Graceland is a landmark album for Paul Simon as a songwriter AND for South African music (and the interest in world music generally). Whew! XTC Content: "Didn't Hurt A Bit" sounds strangely like a Pete Townsend demo (from say, the Scoop discs). Anyone else hear Townsend in that song? I have heard so many comparisons to ITMWML in the XTC catalogue. So far it seems I'm the only one who mentioned Dear Madam Barnum. Listen to Colin's backing vocals at the end of the ITMWML and then compare it to DMB. Ah hah! The sequel in my mind. Ralph
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:13:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Al LaCarte <allacarte@yahoo.com> Subject: Late In The Evening Message-ID: <20000731211306.2318.qmail@web1606.mail.yahoo.com> All: Smudge reminded me: >For every "Loves me . ." or the execrable "Kodachrome" there's an equally great song like "Train In The Distance" or "Hearts and Bones".< I love his tribute to Lennon off of "Hearts & Bones" - "The Late Great Johnny Ace." Great song and record. Mr. Dunks, in his continuing quest to defend all that is good and decent in the world from the likes of me pointed out: >and [Paul Simon] did more to popularise South African township music around the world than anyone before or since.< Damn him. >I think the attacks tagging him a tokenist and cultural plunderer were stupid and shortsighted, then and now.< You're right. He just made a crap record. Who said anything about him being "tokenist" or "plundering?" He paid the South African musicians well. >Why is this OK for, say, Peter Gabriel, but not OK for >Paul Simon? Because Peter Gabriel's music has integrity. Are you comparing anything off of "Graceland" to songs like "Red Rain" and "In Your Eyes?" Be serious. Gabriel understood the music that he was celebrating, and adjusted his style accordingly. Simon just continued doing the same old thing he had been doing for years, but switched back-up bands. >Surely his using elements of township music, gospel or SouthAmerican folk music is no stranger than a Jewish kid from New York singing Anglo-American folk music -- a talent for which he was lionised, and something he evidently should not have progressed beyond, in the minds of some people.< Where is all of this cultural and ethnic claptrap coming from? I didn't say he wasn't qualified to play African music based on anything except that he did it so poorly. Beyond that, what you see as "progression," I see as a misguided attempt at doing something meaningful and significant, but missing the mark. In his defense I would say that Paul Simon's motives for recording "Graceland" were pure. I know people accused him of all sorts of diabolical things after the record was released, and I think they were reaching. I believe he liked the music and wanted to make a record that was different. The problem was, his melodies didn't mesh with the music. They sounded anachronistic and labored to my ears. >From KINGSTUNES: >I'm so sorry >you are missing the joy of this record. What a shame. A shame is it? As if I'm somehow less qualified than *you* to judge good music? Don't be silly. To paraphrase Clarence Darrow, I'd say, "I hate 'Graceland,' and I'm glad I hate it, because if I liked it, I'd listen to it, and I hate it..." Al "I've been working on a novel, but I'm just about to quit, worrying about the future now, well maybe this is it. It's not all that I thought it would be, what a shame about me..." Becker and Fagen "First thing I remember I was lying in my bed, I couldn't been no more then 1 or 2. I remember there was a radio, coming from the room next store, and my mother laughed the way some ladies do..." Paul Simon
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:37:57 +0100 (BST) From: Rory Wilsher <rory_wilsher@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Other (Good) Bands Message-ID: <20000731223757.12999.qmail@web1502.mail.yahoo.com> Poisongold aka MJC asked: >What pop/rock artist, that you like (almost?) as much as XTC, sounds the most different from XTC? >I'll start the bidding with Graham Parker. As seasoned readers of my posts will have gathered (I flatter myself that such beings exist!) I like a LOT of Eighties bands. So, most of them. In differing from XTC, what should I pick? Bands who write tuneless songs with vapid lyrics? Sorry, my CD collection registers nothing in that genre (IMHO!!! Why would I buy them otherwise?!?). What it does register, however, is a lot of bands who used synthesizers (as they were once quaintly known) instead of "real" instruments. The argument at the time (and now, with the sampling/rap music threads) was that "anyone could pick one up and play them". I contend: original music is in the mind, not the medium. If someone rips off a riff, or an entire song, but adds nothing to it, what's the point? If someone can't play an instrument, but is capable of original composition (whether or not there's a sample in it) he/she scores higher on my personal chart. Whilst I appreciate technical ability (I personally believe Brian May to be one of the most underrated guitarists in the world today), why should the lack of it stop people expressing themselves? OK, ran away with myself a bit there... SO, back to the point, finally: Bands I like, who sound different completely different, in completely different ways: Queen New Order Duran Duran Midnight Oil (That'll do for now. Time for my medication) Rory "Banana chairs out on the concrete" Wilsher
------------------------------ End of Chalkhills Digest #6-217 *******************************
Go back to Volume 6.
2 August 2000 / Feedback