Chalkhills Digest Volume 6, Issue 197
Date: Thursday, 20 July 2000
Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 197
Thursday, 20 July 2000
Topics:
Tearing down or just perspective?
Styx and 'Stones may break my Heart
Message from a newbie
How do ya like yer beans? REFRIED
musings
Re: Sloan
Brain Fart
In which I get all reasonable...
ITMWML soundalikes
I know the thread's basically dead, but...
DVDme,TVTsee
Fill 'R Up
Burning Fossil Fuels
Robert Rich and Rick Davies = Amoeba
XTC, French comics and gen gap
Growing old at 25!!
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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:11:38 -0700 From: Ed Kedzierski <ed.kedzierski@blvdmedia.com> Subject: Tearing down or just perspective? Message-ID: <08B5DDC2BABCD311BFC6005004A884B013B759@mgcservices.com> In 6-194, Huw Davies said: I've noticed that people are very anti-Frank Sinatra on this list. He's not all that bad. You shouldn't base your view of him solely on My Way which is probably Sinatra at his worst. You should check out his stuff from the 40's and 50's when he was at his peak. Show me one thing that anyone has said that can be considered "very anti-Frank Sinatra" I don't think that anyone was being anti-Frank here, certainly not "very". It was all just shock that people who had barely hit puberty when he croaked refused to hear anything even remotely resembling a word against him. Add the fact that it was just a matter of saying that one song of his was overplayed, and this was taken as an attack on his "legend". I haven't read a thing on this list that really counts as an attack on Sinatra, just a general attitude that maybe treating him with such reverence is a little silly. Someone said that the current excess of reverence for him was in itself good reason to take a jab or two, which I have to agree with; this says nothing either for or against the man himself or his music. A climate of hushed solemnity where all our knees are getting numb is reason enough for a nice cool refreshing gust of blasphemy to rattle the stained glass. I can't think of a single post on this topic where anyone has actually said that he sucks or anything like that. Even though he does. (How could I resist?) "Jilly loves you more than you will know, whoa, whoa, whoa" Ed K.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:25:31 -0400
From: "Walker, Keith (Imprimis)" <keith.walker-eds@eds.com>
Subject: Styx and 'Stones may break my Heart
Message-ID: <4803DF85761ED211AE9000A02461EBEE087519CB@USPLM202>
>I dare anybody to say ANYTHING good
>about Styx.
Okay. I'll say two good things, then.
1. The packaging of the first pressing of Paradise Theater was, like,
totally righteous! Especially with that "laser etching" on side two!
2. They aren't recording, anymore. That's pretty nice!
Actually, I quite liked "Kilroy Was Here", but, please God, don't ask me why
. . . There is, after all, no logical reason for it. . . Domo Arigato,
Mr. Roboto, in advance . . .
And I must leap to the defense of Heart. Okay, their next to the latest
stuff was lame to the nth degree ("We walked in the garden and planted a
tree"??!!!?? How about a less prosaic "We screwed like two rabbits/Made a
ba-by" It couldn't have hurt the integrity of the song) but that wasn't
their fault. The studio made them record "All I Wanna' Do is Make a Few
Bucks" and then refused to release anything else off of the album. Hence,
they fell into suckydom. However, their latest release (which is, by this
point, a couple of years old), The Road Home, is an excellent live album,
comprised of both old and new stuff, which showcases the "stripped down,
more intimate" direction in which the sisters want to take the band. If you
ever liked Heart, this one should redeem them, to some extent in your eyes.
I even liked the new, acoustic versions of "Straight On", "Crazy on You" and
"Barracuda" to the originals! (Believe it or not. I may simply have no
taste. After my last post, many of you might feel that there is ample proof
to say that I do not.)
And speaking of taste, I can't imagine that I would be interested in
listening to music while enthralled with the cosmic pastoral passing before
my eyes, but, on the cosmic saucer, I would take:
Crowded House: Temple of Low Men
Wendy Carlos: Tales of Heaven and Hell
Men Without Hats: Pop Goes the World
Howard Jones: Cross That Line
Ivan: The Spell
I would have also chosen many of the album previously listed by others, as
well (especially Time and Tide), but I wanted to choose some that won't
already be on the ship. (That is the point, right? The aliens are going to
come and abduct all of us chalkhillians together because, collectively, we
represent the most intelligent form of life on the planet, right?) I mean,
it wouldn't do to have ten copies of Oranges and Lemons when we could have
nine other varieties of music with us!
Keith "Too much time on my hands" Walker
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:34:16 EDT From: Jxnsmom@aol.com Subject: Message from a newbie Message-ID: <aa.80197e1.26a74ea8@aol.com> I just read my first Chalkhills Digest, so forgive me if I repeat something that's already been discussed. For the formerly great bands who now suck, has anyone mentioned U2? Mr. Ferrell, can't say I agree with you on the Roches peaking on their first release. Some of their most amazing songwriting happened on "Nurds," and certainly their later releases are full of the lushest harmonies (if not the most creative songs). I bought Wasp Star three days ago and am on, I'm guessing, my 25th listen at this point. Nobody can turn a lyric like Andy. His thinly-veiled sexual references are always so charming. Finally, I have a tape my brother made me called "Drums & Wireless." It begins with a British radio announcer and is followed by slightly remade versions of songs from all stages of XTC's career. Was this originally an album, or just a radio show? Forgive me if I'm sounding stupid here. I've actually been an XTC fan since the first albums, but I lost touch for a while around "Big Express," and then came back to the fold. Maybe I missed something in there. Even worse, my brother cannot remember where he got the material (sad, I know). Thanks! Amy
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:16:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Brown <mb2@deltanet.com> Subject: How do ya like yer beans? REFRIED Message-ID: <200007191816.LAA12831@mail2.deltanet.com> I had a lovely chat with another chalker regarding Aerosmith, and he brought up a good point..namely that where else could a band like 'smith have gone but down, down, down... Perhaps I should have added this to my Aerosmith-good band gone bad spiel.. Badass rock is a game for the young man/woman... there's only a narrow window of opportunity to 'hump yer guitar', as my chalker pal put it.. no one over 35ish should be performing any thing that resembles this genre (that's not to say geezers don't enjoy LISTENING to it, I do).. nope, it's a seat of the pants affair.. If an artist possesses true creative brilliance (like those Swindon jewels), then they can expect to be around long after their tight pants period is over.. putting out GOOD music, every bit as vital as the youngun's.. but reflective of their life's experience, etc.. from el capee-tain- <<chowder party?>> Manhattan or New England? Pay no attention to the woman behind the shower curtain... (And the dust STILL blows forward-) Debora Brown p.s.- I was only half kidding when I asked if Bambino was a male or female.. (many of you responded).. ..it's either my rapid segue into senility, or it was those paint chips I ate, as a child.. but damn! they sure tasted good with dip.. do I have time for a nap before lunch?-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:52:13 EDT
From: Fenboy7282@aol.com
Subject: musings
Message-ID: <be.6d2b00e.26a752dd@aol.com>
Dear Chalkies,
Here are a few unrelated bits and bobs.
Firstly, did anyone read the wasp star review in Chalkhills where Andy is
quoted as saying that he doesnt listen to anyone else's music
anymore. Dont know if it is true but if it is then im afraid it's the most
arrogant, ignorant and pompous thing to say. What do you others think?
Secondly, albums to take to alien do da's.
The Lilac Time - The Lilac Time
The Mutton Birds - Envy of Angels
XTC - Skylarking
Eric Matthews - It's Heavy in Here
Cleaners from Venus - Best of the Cleaners.
Thirdly, bands I cant stand.....dum de dum
Beck - So he fuses oh so many different styles and influences.. Not much
fucking good if you cant write tunes.
Belle and Sebastian - 'Satchel music'. So twee, smug and wet it's
unbelievable. The above mentioned Lilac Time carry it off with soul and
humour. B&S are simply annoying.
Oasis - Slightly easy target I know but I've always hated em. Pub rock band
tossers.
There are tons more but Im tired.
Questions I want answers to..............
1. Why does everyone dribble over Pet Sounds while Sunflower is a far
better album?
2. Am I the only one who doesnt 'get' Nick zzzzzzzz Drake?
3. Am I going to get spat open for saying i quite like Pearl Jam. esp Ten
and V's?
(Im going to buy a raincoat for this)
4. I am going to get spat at for saying that Wasp Star is average.
(not a question really but who cares)
5. Who else hates Richard E Grant?
will go and lie down.
fenboy
ps. Just discovered Sugarplastic...........yum yum yum!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:36:38 -0700 (PDT) From: The Colonel <captainextraneous@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Sloan Message-ID: <20000719183638.10103.qmail@web2302.mail.yahoo.com> I've been a Sloan fan since the debut album, Smeared. They've become progressively more sixties/classic rock-influenced since then. The first album is more in the Sonic Youth-with-a-structure type of vein. I don't have the second album, but I do also own the limited edition version of One Chord To Another (possibly their best album, in my opinion), which has a special bonus disc spoofing the Beach Boys Party album. The "live" disc is really cool, and in fact I listen to it more than the actual OCTA album! Navy Blues, their follow-up to OCTA is also a really good album, and I would tie it for first place. All in all, a great band worth checking out. Let me know if you get their latest release. I haven't picked it up yet. The Colonel
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:42:06 -0400 From: "Walker, Keith (Imprimis)" <keith.walker-eds@eds.com> Subject: Brain Fart Message-ID: <4803DF85761ED211AE9000A02461EBEE087519CC@USPLM202> And just in case you didn't get it the first two times, I'd like to tell you which discs I'd take on the spaceship . . . Keith "One More Time!"Walker
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:25:06 -0700 From: Ed Kedzierski <ed.kedzierski@blvdmedia.com> Subject: In which I get all reasonable... Message-ID: <08B5DDC2BABCD311BFC6005004A884B013B75A@mgcservices.com> In 6-194, the Mole took me to task regarding Chicago... Specifically, he started by saying: And you and I have traded some pretty decent messages in the past and I hope you think enough of my opinions that I might be able to change yours or at least get you to be more open minded about the subject. But of course. Other than the kindness and generosity you showed me when you welcomed me to the list when I first joined, we've seen eye-to-eye on too many things for me to just dismiss your opinion. And I will admit that I have heard an early track or two that I've had no problem with; however, even the early Chicago fans out there have to admit that it's the Cetera-dominated incarnation that's more well known (not that that's the best excuse, I admit). You also said: Your feelings on Mr Miller aside I feel it is extremely unfair to refer to these gentleman as HACKS. Each is a highly accomplished musician and songwriter, if you don't like thir music, fine but you have to acknowledge that they can play their instruments pretty damn well. However I will also admit that they ain't the Beatles either, but SHIT who is? We can't all be Gahndi either. Perhaps a less than fully-though-out choice of words, though to split hairs the term hack (which means "artist for hire" as opposed to "artist by inspiration", at least as I've always understood it) doesn't rule out being able to play well. Still, it wasn't my intention to ascribe mercenary artistic dishonesty to people I know nothing about. And, truth be told, my negative feelings about this band stem almost entirely from my resentment of things said by Miller (well, there's also Cetera's voice), which I acknowledge is obviously less than fair. I was still in the throes of teenage Beatlemania when I read an interview with him where he stood on his academic musicologist credentials to declare them "not of lasting value" (though I believe that he was actually motivated more by resentment at the damage done to the type of pop he'd based his career on, but that's another argument), while holding Chicago up as an example of what he considered true quality. It's always kind of funny when we look at the roots of our dislikes, and how they can often be more tenuously related to the objects of our scorn than we might think... Oh, and I freely admit that the "pick a damn albumn title already" bit was nothing more than a cheap shot, and that's all it was meant as. "I was just messing around" isn't necessarily a great excuse, I know, but I'd be embarassed if anyone actually thought that I really believed that an album title/cover/whatever really mattered more than the content. I was on a slagging roll, and was enjoying myself at the expense of thinking. So, Mole, I hope that this at least comes close to squaring things peaceably, and I do always appreciate the opportunity to be gentlemen about disagreements, such as you gave me in this case. Also, I realize that I've been on a bit of a slagging tear recently, and if I've really offended anyone that I've got along well with in the past, that was not my intention. I'm sure we all know how much fun slagging can be, and how easy it is to get carried away. That said, I'm not making any promises to stop, just saying that I make no great authoritative claims for my opinions over anyone elses (at least anyone else on this list who has real tastes of their own; I'm not going to pretend to respect the opinions of those who know nothing beyond what they hear on crap radio). If I do say something about an artist that you like that strikes you as wrong or ignorant, by all means, argue with me, do what you can to correct me. You only lose if the only reaction you can come up with is "fuck you". Arguing is fun and educational; I've lost plenty of logical arguments in my time, but I've generally been able to walk away unassisted afterward, usually better for the experience. Ed K.
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:41:27 -0700 From: "RoadKill" <csberry@bellsouth.net> Subject: ITMWML soundalikes Message-ID: <200007191840.OAA04594@mail1.bna.bellsouth.net> Sarah wrote: > And to quote Barb, since she won't post it- has anyone noticed the > similarity between ITMWML and The Loving? Try singing "All around the > world..." in time with "I'm the man..." and you'll see... That's not the melodic match that my brain keeps making when listening to ITMWML. I always hear "Statue of Liberty" in the chorus. Substitute: "I-I-I-I-I'm the man who murdered love. Hey!" with "Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh...my Statue of Liberty Whoo-hoo!" I hope I'm not alone w/ this mental distraction. Cory "Every pile of person has a thinking part that wonders what the part that isn't thinking, isn't thinking of." --TMBG
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:33:45 EDT From: "Kevin Diamond" <kev_boy@hotmail.com> Subject: I know the thread's basically dead, but... Message-ID: <LAW-F13i8TywMfgZUr300000acf@hotmail.com> You want band names? Harry Dick and the Stiffs Johnny Capp and the Rubbers John Thomas and the Wankers Penis That's all I can think of for now. Sorry. Kevin "Inappropriate? What do you mean Inappropriate? It's just some band names!" Diamond
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:10:55 EDT
From: Saints3Den@aol.com
Subject: DVDme,TVTsee
Message-ID: <71.50da390.26a7735f@aol.com>
hi folks! Kevin Diamond's comment:
<< . Oh, how I love my Stop Making Sense DVD.... >>
reminds me that I wanted to ask the collective chalkhills group for music
DVD recommendations.
I have Stop Making Sense, and I love it too! (I remember seeing it at the
theater when it first came out. Once people *got it*, there were standing
ovations for each song) I also have King Crimson-Deja Vroom . Love this as
well! (I'm a belew fan, moreso than a crimhead) But that is all I have so
far.
I'm thinking of getting Storefront Hitchcock and Yellow Submarine. Are there
any more recommended ones? I'm looking for "awesome" experiences, not just
ho-hum concert footage.
Speaking of storefront hitchcock, cdnow has 2 of them listed, different
catalog #s.
I'll be damned if I can tell the difference between them. Anyone know if
there is a difference?
I found something funny today. Yahoo Intrenet Life magazine august 2000
issue has 3rd annual internet music awards. Page 114. under "best label
online"
TVT Records----- TVT has the prettiest site- as well as thousands of
free downloads.
Well, theres no accounting for taste! I hate the site too, don't shoot
the messenger!
eddie st.martin
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:12:07 +0200 From: "Mark Strijbos" <mmello@knoware.nl> Subject: Fill 'R Up Message-ID: <20000719210629.E81CCA6CF2@mail.knoware.nl> Dear Chalkers, The habitual xtc fiend Ben Gott said: > "Stupidly Happy" is a superb choice for a single. Many of you here have expressed similar thoughts. A little bird has told me that our prayers have been heard. Be patient, he said, all will be revealed in due course and one single does not make an album. Duly noted ! Meanwhile, in a galaxy far far away, Captain Ed K. took one last long drag from his hookah and said: > Mark S. said that "Fossil Fuel" was actually a good purchase for > the remastered tracks, which I have to say I noticed when I got it > home; made me wish that the rest of the albums that some of them > are from had been given similar treatment for their CD editions. hear hear! somebody else also noted: the F.F. tracks sound much better than _any_ of the older XTC cd's. They all suffer badly from the fact that they were "done" rather early on in the game, when the digital technology was still very much in it's infacy. i've said it before but i'll say it once again: What the world really needs right now is a complete series of properly remastered XTC 'back catalog' cd's. With proper liner notes and extra booklet with the usual historical crap and assorted scrapbook clippings. And a bonus cd just to make sure we all *have* to buy it i know a guy who would love to produce such a project :) Of course it'll never happen; at least not until Andy croaks it. ( i'm sure our friends at Virgin will shower the world with various last albums, retrospectives and gift box sets once he does! mark my words...) But i still dream about a decent English Settlement cd every once in a while... you can always dream. Anyone familiar with the original "wide groove" vinyl edition (The Green Double) already knows how good it *could* be No, i must correct myself: how good it *should* be! yours in xtc, Mark S. @ the Little Lighthouse www.come.to/xtc
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:48:16 -0400 From: MinerWerks <dminer@gte.net> Subject: Burning Fossil Fuels Message-ID: <a04310100b59baba3efbc@[63.25.69.183]> In digest #6-194, Huw Davies observed: >I have also noticed that some of the tracks on Fossil Fuel sound beter than >on the original albums, especially the Big Express tracks. I have noticed >that when I play the Big Express version of This World Over and then the >Fossil Fuel version with the volume at the same level, the former is a lot >quieter. This fact, on its own, is not necessarily a good thing. Someone on this list (darn me for forgetting!!) posted a comment on the dynamic range of compact discs and provided a link which I eagerly perused (http://georgegraham.com/compress.html). I learned a lot from this article. The trend today is to master discs louder at the expense of the range. I found another piece which showed visual representations of the waveforms of three songs. One was a pice of typical "elevator music," the second John Cougar Mellencamp song from the early 1990s, and the third, a track by Ricky Martin. Each track had identical *peak* audio levels, but the loudest, by far, was Ricky Martin. The waveform of this song looked like a RECTANGLE! This is accomplished by compressing the song so that the loudness of the track is almost exactly the same level as the peaks (nearly 0 decibels headroom)! The elevator music looked to be about two-thirds the general volume, but some sounds in there peaked at the same level as the Ricky Martin track. The Mellencamp track was somewhere in between. I was especially intrigued by this because I deal with the trade off between peak levels and average levels on a daily basis, monitoring programs that go out on the air on a TV network. We have nice audio meters which display the average audio level and peak audio levels simultaneously, so I can observe these phenomena easily. The lesson? If you want your audio to sound natural, you have to leave decent headroom. The more technical article estimated a general headroom between average levels and peak levels to be around 13-14 decibels. This is *essential* in the digital realm where the scale has a dead end at the top. If you hit the top level in a digital system with no correction, you get nasty square waveforms (ugh!). <rant> Of course digital equipment manufacturers decided to label this absolute top limit as ZERO, which has completely confused novices out there who think they're using a VU METER. And then they wonder why their tape dubs have such (unrecoverably) distorted audio...</rant> Back to the case of the Fossil Fuel CD, however, I checked out the tracks on the Geffen Big Express CD and the FF compilation, and I thought the original CD was rather muddy, with no bite on the high end and poor stereo separation. Listen to the choral backing on "All You Pretty Girls." This seems more like background noise on the BE CD, but it sounds bright, open and heavenly in the remaster. Also listen to the tambourine (?) hits on the drumbeats when they start the "Bless you, bless you all of you pretty girls" part. You can barely make them out on the original CD, but they stand out clearly on Fossil Fuel. Another great track to compare is "Seagulls Screaming Kiss Her Kiss Her" to the remaster on Upsy Daisy Assortment. WOW! I feel it was worth picking up that (mostly redundant) compilation just to hear that song sound better than it ever has (even though I'm partial to the BBC recording)... = Derek "the levels are barely in the yellow!" Miner =
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 03:48:44 +0900 From: "John Boudreau" <aso1@mocha.ocn.ne.jp> Subject: Robert Rich and Rick Davies = Amoeba Message-ID: <000001bff1b2$14fa8ba0$775791d2@johnboud> Dear All , I recommend that you all check out Robert Rich's website and pick up the album entitled Watchful by Amoeba . The URL is http://www.amoeba.com/ . >When we were making Watchful, we had already been seduced by >such artists >as: Nico (Marble Index) , Legendary Pink Dots (Maria Dimension) Talk Talk (specifically Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock) The Orb , Robert Wyatt , John Martyn , Gong Tom Waits , Blue Nile , Crowded House , Micheal Hedges Hamza El Din , Richard Thompson , Future Sound of London Frank Zappa , Beatles , XTC , Robyn Hitchcock mid-70's Eno (Another Green World & Before & After Science) Wire's 154 , Elvis Costello , Ry Cooder , David Sylvian David Torn , The Telling , >>Now, we recommend you also check out: ORang ,Bark Psychosis , Radiohead , Bjork , Portishead David Yazbek , Eric Matthews (note that he worked with Richard Davies, not Rick) , Finn , Crowded House (yeah, I know we listed them above, too, so sue us!) , The Sundays , Morphine Stewart/Gaskin , Suzanne Vega , Anything produced my Mitchell Froom . Their site includes a link to Chalkhills ! Sushiman
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:24:21 +0200 From: "Emmanuel Marin" <Emmanuel.Marin@wanadoo.fr> Subject: XTC, French comics and gen gap Message-ID: <002e01bff1c7$d7d7e720$42be8aa4@ftictspudr> "Fluide Glacial" is French oldest comics monthly magazine, and several pages are "free-form filling". A bit like Sergio Aragones' little gags in MAD : the artists can write what they want in the margins of the reader's contributions. Well this month, Soli has drawn a big "XTC" full of stars. Someone else wrote "Buddy ad" (the artists often use these margins to promote buddies). Soli followed : "They are not my buddies. But it's too good. And for a long time. Apple Venus II". So Soli is a fan, and if XTC want a CD artwork with "SuperDupont" they can call him I guess :-) Soli has already made CD covers for French comical singer Richard Gotainer. And the gen gap in the subject line ? Well, Soli is the oldest artist of the magazine and the one who wrote the "Buddy ad" comment is probably a young artist who did not know XTC. Even possibly one of Soli's sons, two of them are comics artists in the same magazine... Emmanuel Marin, Paris, France.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:52:12 -0400
From: MinerWerks <dminer@gte.net>
Subject: Growing old at 25!!
Message-ID: <a04310101b59bb64f7198@[63.25.69.183]>
Jon "TheMoleFromTheMinistry" Rosenberger leapt to the defense of
Chicago in digest #6-194:
>Chicago is the longest running Rock\Pop act with more than 4 original
>members in the US. Second only to the Stones worldwide. They have
>recorded and released material in FIVE different decades. They have had
>at least one US pop chart Top 5 single in 4 of those decades, (They
>have yet to do it in the 00's). I'll admit that chart success means
>shit most of the time but I think you can look at the number of times
>and duration of their career and assume that this band is no one-hit
>wonder from Poughkeepsie.
(CAVEAT: I don't hate Chicago, and I don't have any issues with your
taste, Jon. However, I thought this argument could have been
stronger. Feel free to explain how I may have missed the point!)
Okay, so they have longevity on their side. Although he doesn't have
as much chart success, Pat Boone has been around longer, no?
>Of there first 4 LPS, three are double Lps and the fourth is a Live
>4XLP. That is a lot of sides of Wax in a very short time.
Didn't almost every successful band in the sixties put out albums at
an alarming rate?
>Your feelings on Mr Miller aside I feel it is extremely unfair to refer
>to these gentleman as HACKS. Each is a highly accomplished musician and
>songwriter, if you don't like thir music, fine but you have to
>acknowledge that they can play their instruments pretty damn well.
If that was really important to the majority of people here, wouldn't
this be the Rush list instead of the XTC list?
>Point Four: Yep Later-on they issued a lot of crap. I admit it, and as
>a Chicago fan it embarrases me quite a bit cause they could have been
>amazing if they had followed a little bit heavier path. I am just happy
>they left me what they did.
This is essentially why I think a defense of Chicago falls apart. If
they've gone on issuing crap for a majority if their career, can they
really be "great" as opposed to having "great moments"? I mean, I
think the Beach Boys and the Monkees have some brilliant stuff that I
couldn't live without. But could I defend them against "sucking?"
Other than Pet Sounds, I can only semi-recommend two or three other
BB LPs, and I can think of several I would AVOID (even though I own
them). Similar thing with the Monkees. Try listening to "Shorty
Blackwell" by Micky Dolenz and tell me they hadn't gone off their
rockers after two pretty good discs (their third and fourth). Oooh,
and I won't even start on their (first) reunion album "Pool It!" I
wouldn't even consider going to another Monkees reunion concert
unless Mike Nesmith showed up, either.
Just some thoughts, and not an attack on anyone's taste! And I'd just
like to say that of all the circles I run in (yeah, right!), this is
the one with the most DIVERSE tastes - and that's a GOOD thing! I
find it fascinating how we can have such divergent opinions on the
same pieces. I haven't had that experience on such an elevated level
except on this list.
* * * * *
Ralph Simpson DeMarco went on to wax poetic on the younger generation
and "The List":
> >This same "younger generation" that you are so quick to dismiss
> >is also capable of making films like "Good Will Hunting"
> >and "Chasing Amy."
>
>OK. You lost me! I thought we were talking about music, not movies. I think
>that you have a panel of people there who are a hell of a lot smarter than
>the idiots on "The List" who didn't even mention that MC Hammer's "Can't
>Touch This" is really a take-off of Rick Jame's "Super Freak". How many on
>that show even knew that? It's pathetic to think that the producers didn't
>list an obvious song like "Celebration" by Kool and the Gang - talk about
>over-played songs!
Good call on "Celebration!" I didn't think of that, but it is
absolutely ubiquitous!
As far as the movies, I think Michael was pointing out that the
younger generation was capable of creating "art" with some very lucid
and humanistic themes. Funnily enough, the movies he chose are two of
my favorites, but also two movies I would have a hard time sharing
with someone older. I'm not easily offended, but I have run into
several people who couldn't stomach "Good Will Hunting" because of
the "foul" language. This is a big generational issue if there ever
was one.
I do think there is a problem with Michael's point, though, cause the
two films he chose were conceived by people who were five to eight
years older (at the time) than the "kids" from That 70s Show who
appeared on The List. Comparing people that far apart in age doesn't
really work for people this young. In my seven years since graduating
high school, I've found myself to be a much changed person. I can't
identify with a lot of people under 20, it seems. Of course, age is
not necessarily an indicator of refined taste. My best pal from work
is 29, and his favorite album of all time is by Mr. Big (!)
And even when I was in college, most people there didn't know "Ice
Ice Baby"'s signature riff was sampled from "Under Pressure" by Queen
and David Bowie.
>And, again, they constantly confused "overplayed" song to
>mean "bad" song - especially with Andy's choices.
Oddly enough, the "kids" followed a double standard on the show. The
host flip flopped on his statement to his co-star - that the songs in
question are to be considered "overplayed" not "bad"... and the girl
defended the artists she chose as not bad but overplayed, but then
complained about Andy choosing Frank Sinatra! Admittedly, I can't
remember how I critiqued music when I was their age, BUT I do know I
have always struggled with trying to analytically defend my opinions.
My last two and a half years of high school, I wrote a movie review
column, and I learned quickly that critical analysis gets stale
*fast* if you can't get past "cool" or "sucked."
Or should I say "wack" or "phat?" No wait, I'm not even sure what I'm
saying then.
I have to agree heavily with eveyrone's complaints about this episode
of "The List." I watched the show a few times when it was new, and
they had some decent panelists on, and the age range was usually a
better match. But the Andy Partridge episode was so bad and
unbalanced, I was shocked.
Incidentally, the best "The List" ever was where Spinal Tap appeared.
Nigel Tufnel claimed the three most important events in rock 'n' roll
history were:
3. King Tut's Tomb
2. King Tut's Tomb
and
1. The Panama Canal
(Can you guess what got the audience vote?)
Either VH1 is fully aware of the skewering their show needed, or they
are even more ignorant than I thought.
>In the 70s at least we had the Midnight Special, American Bandstand and Soul
>Train. What do we have now? MTV is all game shows and "Real World", and VH1
>has rock bios with commerical breaks every two minutes! Rock videos have
>made good looks MUCH more important than music (it used to be about 50-50).
>I saw a song book for Christine Agulara (spell?) and not one song was
>written by her, and all the songs were the same old tired lyrics you have
>heard a million times in a millions songs. At least new-wave was original
>sounding, the new stuff is mostly crap.
See Michael's orginal post referencing Bobby Sherman, Susan Dey,
Donny Osmond and David Cassidy. Let me add in Leif Garret, the Bay
City Rollers, John Travolta and Olivia Newton John. THE VILLAGE
PEOPLE. And anyone else who ever released a disco record.
Superficiality is timeless.
My record collection is *least* made up of 1970s albums. Ignorance? Perhaps...
= Derek "delete key impaired" Miner =
------------------------------ End of Chalkhills Digest #6-197 *******************************
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20 July 2000 / Feedback