Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #8-65

          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 8, Number 65

                 Friday, 6 December 2002


               What I've Been Listening To
                       Aches to See
              Just for the Sake of Argument
          Pickety Gurning Dennis Partridge List
                       Don Kirshner
            What are we listening to, you ask?
                       XTC sighting
                   Re: (not) going APE
                      paper and iron
                     Mummer a Stunner
                       Dutch 'news'
                  Olof's POV and carrots
                      Who Will Buy?
                   Bootlegs and Beatles
                    The price of love


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7d (John Relph <>).

Big money selling you stuff that you really do not need.


Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:13:49 -0500
From: "Molly, the New Wave Queen" <>
Subject: What I've Been Listening To
Message-ID: <000d01c29b3a$cb437780$5304590c@vogmudet>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet

I've been mainly listening to a lot of compilation albums (Sounds of the
Seventies and Modern Rock), but I've gotten into this wonderful female
singer, Beth Gibbons.  She's the lead singer of the techno group,
Portishead.  It's hard to describe her voice, but it has a Billie
Holideayesque quality to it.  Her music is very haunting and beautiful.  Her
album with Rustin' Man (AKA Paul Webb of the 80s band Talk Talk) "Out of
Season" would be a very good Christmas gift for those who love interesting
sounding music.



Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 00:06:55 -0500
From: Don & Sue <>
Subject: Aches to See
Message-ID: <>

Been saving this one for a long time, now it's yours free . . . "Aches
to See" has to be the best XTC tribute band name, right?  It's awkward,
perfect poetry.

I too still get chills from Easter Theatre, but not as powerfully as
I've been getting them from Church of Women.  That "pathetic" guitar
intro - as Andy described - feels like someone strumming on my solar
plexus.  How can such a simple sound affect me so?  From there the
lyrics take over which have meaning on at least three levels, and all of
them resonate.  Move over Waterloo Sunset . . .

Travis Schulz is desperate for some 'hills music recommendations, and I
can relate.  For four years almost all I've done is take, take, take.  I
swear I've picked up close to a hundred albums based solely on the
say-so of you crazy mo-fo's.  It's time I gave something back to the

Well, Travis, I doubt I can help you much on the Jazz front; the 'hills
say Miles Davis 'Kind of Blue' is all that, but I was driven nearly
insane by that relentless high-hat going
tish...ti-ti-tish...ti-ti-tish... for the first half an hour.  It so
happens I played this the same day as another recommendation: Richard
Thompson "Shoot out the Lights" which I loved until sudddenly his wife,
*Linda McCartney*, started singing!

OK, so now that I've stirred up a hornets nest, and lost any credibility
I may have had, let me describe a few of the gems for which I'm
especially grateful:  Guided by Voices hardest rocking album ever
"Universal Truths and Cycles", Power-Pop-Punk's glorious return in A's
"Hi-Fi Serious", The Strokes "Is this it?" proving an album that was
overhyped can somehow end up underrated, The Flaming Lips' "Yoshimi
Battles the Pink Robots" is every bit as good as advertised, many here
pushed Elliott Smith's "XO" and I put it off as long as I could until
o-my-god it's gorgeous, Super Furry Animals proved with last year's
"Rings Around the World" that the second best pop band in the world is
still improving!  Other/deeper/older bands that my fellow XTC geeks here
helped me 'discover' include: Captain Beefheart, The Buzzcocks, Pere
Ubu, Can, Big Star, Cardiacs, Belle and Sebastian, Supergrass and Ween.
OK that's enough, long lists are dull.  But these are all important to
me, and I never got a chance to thank you all!!

"Like us men, Like us men, Will they ever like us men?  Men have thorns
around their minds." (Get it?  As in crown of thorns from that other
patriarchical religion?  Ah, never mind.)

Don Parker


Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 01:46:12 EST
Subject: Just for the Sake of Argument
Message-ID: <>

>Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 14:56:45 +0000 (GMT)
>From: Bert Millichip <>
>Subject: Humbug!

>I went to (appropriately enough)
>and found the following definition of "sell". The
>emphasis is mine [gee, and here's me thinking the 
>emphasis was Carmen Miranda's]:
>"To exchange or deliver for money ***or its
>equivalent***... To give up or surrender in exchange
>for a price ****or reward***."
>A "trade" is simply a "sale" but using pirated CDs as
>a substitute for legal tender. You are still profiting
>from somebody else's art, and the artist is not
>getting any share of that profit.

Hey Bertie-o:

I've got a few other words you might look up at

Complete (, sense 4)

fucking (

sophistry (, sense 1)

you (

captious (, sense 1)

bunghole (

It's fairly plain that you have a little problem with reading comprehension,
so I've put together an audible version, to help you understand the concept a
little better:

>An even greater piece of humbuggery was perpetrated by
>our "new" friend Dr Pilpy. A person who, I know for a
>fact, happens to work for one of the largest (not to
>mention dodgiest, if recent reports are to be
>believed) music/media mega-conglomerates on the
>planet. Just fancy that!

Why yes, just fancy that! A person capable of containing contradictory ideas
in his head without exploding gooey puerile self-righteousness all over the
landscape, giving everybody a dull, pounding headache and producing a general
desire to throttle him! Fancy, as you say, that!

(And why is that word "new" in quote marks up there? Is that some
super-subtle form of orthographical sarcasm I'm missing?)

>Reluctant though I am to debate business ethics with a
>hypocrite who is a willing whore for corporate pimps,
>I'll quickly demolish your main points:

Astonishing feat, here: hilarious pomposity so huge it generates its own
gravity field, mixed with comical bellicosity and a truly stunning lack of
judgment. Did you attend a school to learn how to do this, or was it
self-taught, in front of one of those funny mirrors that make you look bigger
than you are? You know, strutting around like Benito Mussolini, chin jutting,
nodding approval at all the imagined applause from your admiring crowds?

At any rate, I guarantee you: you would never have said that to Dr. Pilpy's
face. But in the unlikely event I'm wrong, and you actually do possess the
stones to say that in meatspace, no jury in the world would convict Dr. Pilpy
for smashing your fucking face in for you.

So what exactly is the point, Bert? Do you get off on the _frisson_ of
fancying yourself a "rebel"? Does it tickle your pussy to think you've
managed to create such a deeply repellent online persona? Do you, you
cardboard Mephistopheles, sleep better at night knowing you've managed to sew
just a little more discord today, tortured a little more logic, crapped out a
little more specious nonsense, made life just a little bit less pleasant?

>Chalkhills legend Harrison Sherwood once said that
>artists are 100% repsonsible for the contracts that
>they sign, and I totally agree with him.

(Hint for aspiring writers: When employing sarcasm, try to make sure you
don't switch to sincerity halfway through the sentence. It confuses the hell
out of your audience.)

Funny thing, sweetcheeks, but at the time I said that you shrieked like a
ruptured toy poodle for approximately 250 paragraphs trying to absolve Moby
of any responsibility for any contracts he may have signed, ascribing any
apparent malfeasance on his part to the very recording industry you are now
suddenly passionately defending. [And I quote, from Digest 8-38: "I might
expect such ignorance from a complete layman, but not from an XTC fan: you,
of all people, should be well versed in the myriad ways that record companies
shit on their artists." Yes, I suppose I should. How about you?] I accused
Moby of voluntarily becoming more or less exactly what you accuse Dr. Pilpy
of being -- a "willing whore for corporate pimps." At the time, you thought
there could be no higher aspiration in the world.

Funny how you'll latch on to whatever position is handy -- almost as if you
had absolutely no actual convictions of your own, and were just arguing
because it gives you the opportunity to sling crappy little insults at people
from the safety of your own keyboard.

I ask again, Bert: What's the point?

Harrison "Besides the one on top of your head, I mean" Sherwood


Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:26:46 -0000
From: Adrian Ransome <>
Subject: Pickety Gurning Dennis Partridge List
Message-ID: <>

Time for my once-yearly belch.

Ted Harms wrote:

"Anybody else surprised by the cost of the Fuzzy discs?
Given what I assume is the 'demo' quality of the songs, I'm a bit shocked by
the 10.21GBP"

I'm not sure what sort of price CDs are in the Great White North, but ten
quid is a pretty good price round these here parts, matey. Okay, you can go
to your local Texaco filling station and pick up Pickety Witch's Greatest
Hits for two pounds and maybe you could get the n-n-new G-G-G-Gareth
G-G-Gates uh-uh-album from HMV whilst it's on offer for nine smackers, but
ten quid is a *very* reasonable price for a new, non-chart CD.

One final thought, young Teddington; an album of Andy Partridge demos is
worth ten of most artist's complete back catalogues.

On the other side of the planet, Jeff Crawford said:
"so Robbie Williams gets obscenely rich without ever having written a song"

I pains me to defend the gurning 'fat dancer of Take That', but to the best
of my knowledge Mr Williams has co-written nearly all of his songs with the
recently departed/sacked Guy Chambers. This is not co-wrote, Spice
Girls-style where they changed one word of a lyric or one note of a melody
in exchange for lucrative songwriting royalties; as I understand it, Robbie
did the words and the other Guy did the music. The true extent of Robbie
Williams' abilities will be revealed when his next record is released
without any input from Chambers at all. Then again, with 80 million quid in
the bank, he can hire anyone he likes. I can hear the telephone call now:
"Hello? Is that Andy Partridge? This is Robbie Williams. ROBBIE WILLIAMS -
Pop star, you may have heard of me? I did that song Angels? Rock DJ?
...Millennium? Er... I was in Take That? No, that's Mark Owen. No, that's
Gary Barlow. Anyway, I just signed an eighty million pound record deal with
EMI and I need a new co-writer and was wondering if you were interested. I
really liked your Making Plans for Nigel single... Hello...? Hello..?".

Speaking of co-writing (what a link!! I should be on the GMTV sofa instead
of Eamonn Holmes) the Idea website recently reported that Andy was
co-writing with Cathy Dennis again, this time the songs would be destined
for some of the current boyband/girlband/manufactured "pop idol" style
artists. I find this interesting as I'm naturally a huge admirer of Mr
Partridge's songwriting abilities, I also quite enjoyed Ms Dennis'
contributions to Kylie Minogue's "Fever" album, so the fruits of their
collaboration would make for pretty interesting listening. However, would it
still be interesting if it was filtered through a spiky-haired, vest-topped,
headset-miked band of jerking pop sock puppets?

So I ask you, the manifold inhabitants of the Hill - if you knew that
Britney, 'N*Sync, Westlife, New Kids on the Block or the Bay City Rollers
(whatever the young cats of today are digging) had released an album with
some part-Partridge penned tunes on them, would you buy it?

Ahhhh... Top ten albums this year:
Interpol - Turn On the Bright Lights
Alpinestars - White Noise
National Velvet - Flesh Under Skin (boot)
Future Sound of London - Cascades (thanks Deb!)
Apples in Stereo - The Velocity of Sound
Apples in Stereo - Sound Effects 92 - 00
xtc - COMC
Boards of Canada - Geogaddi
Yes - Close to the Edge
Kylie - Fever

Festive cheer, folks!

p.s. Am I the only one foreseeing a huge conflict looming in the
not-too-distant future? One which will have massive repercussions on
everyday life, maybe threatening life itself?

No, I'm not talking Bush & his puppy dog Blair versus Saddam Hussein, I'm
talking Bert v Dom.
Duck and cover, citizens; protect and survive.


Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 07:21:06 EST
Subject: 1984
Message-ID: <>

Hey Everyone!
    I found something interesting a white ago in one of my fav books, 1984.
Although, this fact may already be widely known. There's a poem in the book
that goes, " Oranges and Lemons go the bells of St. Clemens, you owe me three
farthings say the bells of St. Martins..." (or something, the book is not in
my physical presence, so I'm wingin' it here). Oranges and Lemons ...  that's
an XTC album! Now, I don't know if its named after the poem or the poem in
the book. However, I found this just as nice as the "Things Fall to Bits" and
"The Second Coming" connection. I like that XTC reads... (Or Andy Partridge
specifically.) Hurrah for books!



Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 07:48:14 -0500
From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <>
Subject: Don Kirshner
Message-ID: <>

on 12/2/02 2:42 PM, the unknown soldier wrote:

> 2) Of course the producers of music are responsible
> for its quality. However, by "producers" I tend to
> mean musicians and songwriters rather than suits in
> boardrooms. The suits can nurture good music, they can
> also bury it if they want to, but they sure as hell
> can't create it.

  Exhibit A: Don Kirshner. Unable to control the flesh and blood Monkees,
who wanted to play their own instruments and write/choose their own songs,
he went off in a huff and gave the song The Monkees had turned down
flat("Sugar Sugar") to an entirely fictional band that existed only in a
cartoon, The Archies. Guess he figured cartoon characters couldn't get
uppity on him. Unfortunately The Monkees got some of their credibility as
musicians and creative control, but sales suffered after that, and they were
under the more direct control and creative whim of the show's producer,
which basically killed them as a band.(Exhibit B- Head- a fascinating
psychedelic mess with no commercial potential)Don Kirshner may have been a
philistine, creatively speaking, but he knew how to sell stuff.


Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 08:46:30 -0500
From: "Michael Otero" <>
Subject: What are we listening to, you ask?
Message-ID: <>

Hi, hi, hi

	I thought I'd de-lurk to reply to this one: Two categories for
me, the first half being the newest releases by obvious, well-known
sorts, in no particular order. I'm with you, Travis on 1 -
Brainwashed. I find it a lovely parting gift from George. How 'bout
Stuck Inside A Cloud? 2- Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers "The Last DJ."
More of a stretch musically than TP  has taken in a while, with a
little ukelele lovingly thrown in in memory of the afore-mentioned
Traveling Wilbury. Favorite track is Dreamville, with Have Love, Will
Travel close behind. 3- The Pretenders "Loose Screw." I'm working on
this one... several notches below, say, Last Of The Independents, but
I've got a big soft spot for Ms. Hynde. 4- Springsteen's "The Rising."
(is that screaming I hear?) As an ex-New Yorker, I really appreciate
the attempt to put individual human faces on the events of that day
last September. And, damn, what an incredible concert, by the way. My
4th Bruce show, and it completely blew the others (all fine shows)
away. But I digress. 5- Santana "Shaman." I, for one, could do without
all the guest stars of this album, as well as Supernatural. It's an
effective marketing ploy, and gets him heard by many younger listeners
who otherwise might miss out, but... But any Carlos is good
Carlos. With apologies to the old "Clapton is God" school, I think if
there's a supreme being wielding a guitar, it's Senor Santana. I
especially like Foo Foo and Victory Is Won.

	In the department of (possibly) lesser-known stuff, I offer up
five which may not be as new, but have not lost any of their sparkle
to my ears. Probably the best-known, and newest, of this group is 6-
Los Lobos "Good Morning Aztlan." This band is SO underappreciated, and
they're consistantly wonderful. So many styles, all done fantastically
well. Tough for me to select a favorite, but the one-two punch of the
first two tracks, Done Gone Blue and Hearts Of Stone is pretty
fine. 7- Shannon Curfman "Loud Guitars, Big Suspicions." This blues
album is amazing, but it's twice as amazing when you remember Shannon
was thirteen years old when she recorded it. I know she's got school
and all, but I can't wait for her next release (this one came out in
'98 or '99). Check out Playing With Fire. 8- Galactic "Late For The
Future." These guys need to get a new studio album out, but they
appear to be having too much damn fun out on the road doing their fine
live shows. Not quite modern jazz, Travis, but a very funky New
Orleans horn and guitar attack (not to forget the organ), with some
drumming straight outta Mardi Gras. Maybe half a dozen vocal tracks,
the rest instrumentals on which they really jam (in the older sense of
inspired improvisation). 9- Southern Culture On The Skids "Liquored Up
And Lacquered Down." Another band overdue for a studio release,
another live act that's a LOT of fun. To explain SCOTS music, let's
see: take roots rock, surf music, the B-52s, stir in some Grand Ol'
Opry and some Tony Joe White... and maybe transfer the urban irony of
David Byrne to a trailer park, and voila! I'd have to go with I
Learned To Dance In Mississippi as my favorite here. Saving the
absolute best for last, 10- Butterfly Jones "Napalm Springs." Two of
the three members of Dada put this one out in the summer of 2000. The
songs are wonderful, the guitar playing likewise. I truly believe XTC
fans will appreciate this one, so give it a whirl. It's music that
would be all over the radio if radio didn't create a partial vacuum
with t doggedly optimistic lyrics (what ARE all these so-called bands
so damned angry about, anyhow?), vocals in harmony, pretty melodies,
variety in sound... what a concept. As an appetizer, I'd suggest Blue
Roses and The Systematic Dumbing Down Of Terry Constance Jones. And,
yes, I got to see them live, too (three, actually), and I wish I was
back in Key West now at the shows.

	As regards XTC, I enjoy hearing the demos and such, but I
really crave new "product" (what an awful word for music...). My first
listening to Wasp Star was one of the more sublime musical experiences
I've had. I want more moments like that.

	Anyway, I hope I haven't worn out my welcome. We now return
you to your regularly scheduled digest. Take care, and peace.

							Mike Otero
							Fla-la land, US of A


Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 07:36:36 -0800
From: "Damian Wise (Foulger)" <>
Subject: XTC sighting
Message-ID: <3DEDB084.17471.3B42EDA@localhost>

Dear all,

Reporting XTC sightings seems en vogue right now, so here's mine,
which is wrapped up in a band recommendation too.  Jim's Big Ego (to
be found at have
a song "Love everybody", which I'm sure is a tribute to "The Loving".
Buried within are the lyrics:

I get a dopio at the Carberry's
Listen to your love tango and XTC.

JBE are a phenominal band, see them live in Boston, or just download
their music from  They have the wit and catchiness to be
compared with XTC - a marvellous band!

Damian Wise (Foulger) Ph.D.
nLight Photonics


Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 18:47:07 -0000
From: "Pledge" <>
Subject: Re: (not) going APE
Message-ID: <00d701c29bc5$90173da0$8849063e@oemcomputer>

I'm just writing in reply to Ted Harms, who wrote this:

---- begin enclosure ----

Anybody else surprised by the cost of the Fuzzy discs?

Given what I assume is the 'demo' quality of the songs, I'm a bit shocked by
the 10.21GBP (which works out to about $25CDN/$16US).  Not to mention that
there'll be shipping charges and whatever the bank dings me for having the
privilege of asking them to exchange my paper and iron.

Yes, I'm well aware that some may argue that Andy is due great gobs of cash
from getting screwed by Virgin, etc. etc. and I'm not saying he isn't due
fair recompense.  And yes, this is a free-market economy and nobody is
holding a gun to my head forcing me to buy them, but I was hoping that
they'd be a little bit more reasonably priced.

It's just that, if this is the price for all the Fuzzy discs, I think it'll
be for completionists only.

---- end enclosure ----

Asssuming i'm not the only UK based XTC fan left, I have to say I'm
reasonably pleased by the price of the Warbles series. That's not to say i
wouldn't like them to be cheaper, it is just that new release CDs over here
happen to be anything up to 15 quid! In fact to get discs as cheaply as Andy
is selling them I'd either have to hope they were stocked in clearance shops
immmediately, available from an offshore web site or buy 2 CDs for #22
(which is a deal often used by the high street, big name retailers over
here, thus ensuring i usually have to pay out for second Cd i don't
necessarily want to make myself feel i've found a good price over 2 CDs!).

Many times we've been assured the price of CDs isn't fixed, but the reality
is that they are fixed over here. Hopefully Andy will make more from these
discs as he is cutting out the high street stores, but, presumably he will
still need to pay the boutique people.

I'm also swayed by having a bootleg collection of 3 or maybe 4 live CDs, so
i will be getting a hell of a lot of new material for my 10.21 GBP.

In the meantime, you'll just have to forgive Andy for being based in a
country where CDs are generally priced far too high...




Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 21:58:48 +0000
From: Mark Fisher <>
Subject: paper and iron
Message-ID: <>

> Anybody else surprised by the cost of the Fuzzy discs?
> Given what I assume is the 'demo' quality of the songs, I'm a bit shocked by
> the 10.21GBP (which works out to about $25CDN/$16US).  Not to mention that
> there'll be shipping charges and whatever the bank dings me for having the
> privilege of asking them to exchange my paper and iron.

Ha! I suspect that what you've uncovered is the great disparity between CD
prices in the UK and the rest of the world. Ten quid on this side of the
Atlantic is - believe it or not - actually considered cheap.

With any luck, Fuzzy Warbles will be distributed in Canada and you'll be
able to buy it at a more sensible price.



Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 07:08:04 +0000
From: "Ralph Simpson DeMarco" <>
Subject: Mummer a Stunner
Message-ID: <>

Dear Affiliated Members,

Posting again sooner than I thought. First I must tip my uffington horse cap
to Kerry Chicoine for her fine defense of Mummer and her interesting
comparison to Skylarking and O&L. I was also a recent defender of Mummer
(though not cited by Dom). I must say that folks who slag our boys should
not be taken so seriously - no matter how clever they think they are. And
Dom, I feel sorry for your inability to appreciate EVERY song on Mummer.
Funny how the pain it brings you makes me so stupidly happy.

XTC Cover Band Name? (As sir robin once said of crossing the bridge of
death: "That's easy!")

The Spinning Tops

Brrring on the fuzzies...



Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 08:59:56 +0100
From: "Andre Koning-de" <>
Subject: Dutch 'news'
Message-ID: <>

Hi everyone,

At the moment the dutch newspapers feature adverts from radiostation 3FM.
They are compiling the 'verrukkelijke 715' list, to be broadcast at the
end of the month (you can vote too: go to and search for the
triangle with the yellow chick).
Anyway, they draw attention with slogans like 'Cake or Meatloaf?', 'Bread
or Beef?' and they caught my attention allright. Especially yesterday: the
slogan was 'Chili Peppers or XTC?'. Yes, they mean the band: they have two
songs ready for selection on the website.

Now go vote,



Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:17:49 -0800
From: "Richard" <>
Subject: Olof's POV and carrots
Message-ID: <00b201c29bc9$d598fc20$>

To Olof,

re: Industry "vs." Quality

Nicely stated.  I agree that it is all a matter of perspective and place in

I have plenty of music in my mind and collection that many Chalkhillbillies
might scoff but this music has to do with a placement in time.  Just as an
example, for good or for bad (and I don't seek your opinion), The Allman
Brothers' "Brothers And Sisters" recording takes me back to some wonderful
early high school memories.  I'm not saying it is good stuff (in fact some
may classify it as just the opposite in the shadow of Duane's death) but it
stands as an auditory bookmark in my unwritten biography and I'm comfortable
with that.  Yes, I also have horrific audio counterparts like the summer of
75's(?) dimwit anthem, Sweet's "Ballroom Blitz."


Just so that this posting is not without "XTC" content, I will pass along a
topical joke (at least for those in most of the northern hemisphere)
imparted by Andy last week...


Two snowmen are standing in a field.

One says to the other, "Do you smell carrots?"


As far as XTC cover band names... Brainiac's Daughter!



Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:17:57 -0600
From: "vee tube" <>
Subject: Who Will Buy?
Message-ID: <>

    "Anybody else surprised by the cost of the Fuzzy discs?"


"Given what I assume is the 'demo' quality of the songs, I'm a bit shocked
by the 10.21GBP (which works out to about $25CDN/$16US).  Not to mention
that there'll be shipping charges and whatever the bank dings me for having
the privilege of asking them to exchange my paper and iron."

        First, your assumption that the "quality" of these songs
     fall into the "demo" bin is woefully incorrect. In fact, many of
     these songs are "A" tunes. Those of us who have been trading boots
     and swapping MP3s can't wait to get these songs from the master

        Secondly, It's not uncommon at all for independent artists
     to sell CDs at 'full retail' price through their websites. I have
     paid these prices before to bands like Sugarplastic and the Bears.
     Your banking problems are, of course, your own.

"Yes, I'm well aware that some may argue that Andy is due great gobs of cash
from getting screwed by Virgin, etc. etc. and I'm not saying he isn't due
fair recompense."

         A Specious argument at best. We fans don't owe Andy anything.
      We buy what we want and as long as we get what we pay for, we are
      quite happy!

"And yes, this is a free-market economy and nobody is holding a gun to my
head forcing me to buy them, but I was hoping that they'd be a little bit
more reasonably priced."

          Your understanding of the "free market economy" seems to be
       tempered by your present pay scale. Hopefully in the near future
       you'll get a raise and then these prices won't seem so high?

          Me? I just went to the XTC website, debit card in hand, only
       to find out that the Warbles were "Pre Order" only. C'mon Andy!
       Let me order, NOW!



Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:16:57 +0000 (GMT)
From: Bert Millichip <>
Subject: Bootlegs and Beatles
Message-ID: <>

"Wes Long" wrote:

>>>Andy Partridge created the music - <<<

What, ALL music?

>>>he's flattered that
*anyone* would want all the crap quality boots
floating around, and doesn't mind folks trading them.
Interestingly - he doesn't like folks selling them.

You can play all the games you want with the word
*trade* - To Andy there is a distinction between
trading for money and trading for other audio.<<<

Care to elaborate?

>>>For me at least - that's the end of this

Come on, surely you are capable of formulating your
own opinion?

Obviously, Andy's opinion is the only one that counts
regarding *his* music - though bootleggers are likely
to feel a tad confused given that Andy has made
comments in the past which seem to give a green light
to their activities. But Todd and I were talking in
more general terms.

I'm quite happy to confess that I have a shitload of
illegally copied stuff in my possession. Anyone around
here who claims they don't is almost certainly lying.
We all know that you have masses of the stuff Wes -
you post macking big lists of it on the web. What I
object to is "traders" smugly claiming some sort of
moral superiority over "sellers", even when the seller
in question is only covering his own costs.

You chalkhillians are an odd bunch - you rant and rail
against a distribution model which you feel gives
insufficient rewards to artists, while at the same
time supporting an alternative model which gives *no*
rewards to artists!!!

Jeffrey Thomas: I wholeheartedly endorse your defence
of Sgt Pepper. Just one or two quibbles about your
take on Beatles history though...

>>>Chris, I think you make a couple of mistakes here
w/ regard to Sgt. Pep. John was cruising, yes, but he
had more compositions (you forgot "Good
Morning, Good Morning") and more co-writes ("Getting
Better" and "She's Leaving Home") than you credited
him with.  Supposedly, he even helped finish that old
Paul tune "When I'm 64", and he was certainly into it
in his own way (despite later comments), or how else
do you explain that fabulous guitar part in the third

John was snoozing rather than cruising. Paul "took
over" the band circa Pepper largely by default. John
was incapable of doing much work since his brain was
so frazzled by LSD at the time. Paul had no choice but
to take on more of a leading role artistically - the
only alternative was for the group to wither and die
by '67/'68, and it's largely Paul we have to thank for
that not happening. John became embittered over Paul's
new prominence, but he was physically and mentally
unable to compete with him at the time.

John vehemently denied any hand in the writing of
"When I'm 64". John was guilty of a lot of BS in his
interviews, but I see no reason to doubt him on this

>>>That John wasn't the driving force is correct (he
wasn't on any post-Rubber Soul records), but they were
all "tuned in" at the same time, i.e. regardless of
the music, Sgt.P was their pinnacle in terms of group
effort and, above all, impact and relevance.  No album
in the years before or after had so much group
activity between the two, and indeed between the four.
Okay, a lot of the co-writes were heavily skewed
towards one writer, but it is common that bits &
pieces attributed to one were actually delivered by
the other ("I'd love to turn you on" was Paul; "I used
to be cruel to my woman, I beat her and kept her apart
from the things that she loved" was John, as was "We
gave her everything money could buy" etc.).<<<

Agreed - Pepper was a cultural phenomenon, and its
status as such cannot be understated. More importantly
(I've never been one for cultural phenomena) it's a
fine piece of music. I don't understand why people
should have a problem with Paul contributing more
songs than John. Okay, so Paul later wrote the Frog
Chorus and was uncool enough to live into his 60s, but
if you ignore all that and just look at their work in
the Beatles, Paul was at least the equal of John.

>>>The good part of their cooperation at that time is
that John was *perfectly content* for Paul to take the
lead, it let him trip more and explore himself.  It
led to very peaceful and fruitful cooperation between
the two; once he snapped out of that phase (White
Album), everything became a bit more tense, strained,
vitriolic ... and eventually fatal for the group.<<<

I don't agree with that interpretation at all. John
was consistent in interviews from the late '60s
onwards that he was desperately unhappy about being in
the group once he lost his marbles and Paul took over.
He was content about nothing. Any fruitful cooperation
during this period was between Paul and George Martin,
not Paul and John.

>>>Revolver is also a lot of Paul -- in my opinion his
best album -- but they still tried to keep a 50/50
balance (in terms of individually written [!]
songs) at that point.<<<

Agreed - Paul's songs are amazing on that album.
"Tomorrow Never Knows" and "She Said She Said" apart,
John's contributions to Revolver were pretty modest.
John was in grave danger of being reduced to the third
writer (in terms of quality) at this point - and this
was largely down to his unfortunate drug habits, it
must be said.

Beatle Bert.


Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:26:42 -0000
From: "Darryl W. Bullock" <>
Subject: The price of love
Message-ID: <000901c29d55$0c19e5c0$19a2fea9@Bullock>

Im saddened by the news that Ted Harms (Chalkhills digest #8-64) feels that
at well under a dollar US a track the Fuzzy Warbles discs are too
expensive, but what is he really complaining about?

The discs themselves are cheaper than most UK releases (normally #15), on a
par with chart discounted titles and a couple of quid (at #12.99 when you
include UK tax) above mid price. A bit of a bargain I reckon, especially
with a running time of almost an hour for the first disc (that's less than
22 English pennies a minuite) and fifty minutes for the second.

OK, I admit that I would have paid any price for them, but these two
beautiful (and autographed) things sitting on my coffee table right now are
worth every penny. Remember, this is ANDY PARTRIDGE for chrissake! Isn't he
the whole point of our being here - the whole reason that this forum exists?
And several of the tracks are 'complete' XTC performances...even Terry makes
an appearance. Worth every red cent for the cracking live-in-the-studio
version of 'I Don't Want To Be Here' alone.

But to pick up on Ted's point the discs are only aimed at completists -
they're never going to be seen by casual listeners as they will only be
available through the official Idea site, and surely most of the people that
regularly log on are pretty much dyed in the wool fans aren't they?

And Ted, I really don't think that you can blame Andy for your bank ripping
you off! Get a credit card! What I should say here is that any of you who
have not heard them yet are in for an aural feast. Better by far than any
tape or bootleg disc in circulation the quality is astonishing - with dodgy
speed corrected, no tape hiss to wade through, no drop-outs and a whole
bunch of stuff that has never been circulated before.

As Ted said, no-one is holding a gun to your head (nice metaphor - have you
seen Bowling For Columbine?) to force you to buy them. But you MUST BUY
THEM! They are awesome! Mind you, it looks like we'll have to wait until
Volume 3 for 'All I Dream Of Is A Friend'.

Big money selling you stuff that you really do not need? I don't think



End of Chalkhills Digest #8-65

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