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Subject: Chalkhills Digest #8-5


          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 8, Number 5

                 Friday, 11 January 2002

Topics:

                      policing Phil
                        2001 Faves
                   Re: Stuart Copeland
                      New Radicalism
        Copyrights, Beatles, Jacko and what not...
                       Vocals etc.
                       Free Willie
                         Britney
                 The Lowe-Down on Genesis
                      Answer me this
The Consequences of Love and a bit of XTC thrown in for good measure
               Re: XTC best-of list ranking
                         The dBs
                      Giant-spotting
                       Go, Yazbek!

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:17:02 -0500
From: "Ted Harms" <tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: policing Phil
Message-ID: <NDBBKGMDOKBCFDLBMPGOOEFGDCAA.tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca>

Ben Gott wrote:

*	So does the chronology of Hugh Padgham early '80s production go
*	"Face Value" --> "Ghost in the Machine" --> "English
*	Settlement"?  There wouldn't have been much time for him to do much
*	else in there, I'd imagine, although he has proven
*	to be a very prolific producer since then...

From Allmusic.com, here are Hughs' credits as producer or engineering up to
1985.  (Not sure of the chronology within each year and I can't be bothered
to put them in alphabetical order.)

1978	Split Enz "Frenzy"
1980	xTc "Black Sea"
	Yes "Drama"
1981	Phil Collins "Face Value"
	Police "Ghost In The Machine"
	Spandu Ballet "Journeys to Glory"
	Genesis "Abacab"
1982	Kate Bush "Dreaming"
	Genesis "Three Sides Live"
	The Call "Call
	XTc "English Settlement"
	Split Enz "Time & Tide"
	Frida "Something's Going On"
	Phil Collins "Hello, I Must Be Going"
1983	Adam Ant "Strip"
	Police "Syncronicity"
	Split Enz "Conflicting Emotions"
	Genesis "Genesis"
	Peter Gabriel "Peter Gabriel [3]"
1984	David Bowie "Tonight"
	Human League "Hysteria"
1985	Phil Collins "No Jacket Required"
	Phil Collins "White Nights"
	Tangerine Dream "Risky Business"

Ted Harms | Library, Univ. of Waterloo | tmharms@uwaterloo.ca
"I don't use the accident, because I deny the accident."  Jackson Pollock

[application/ms-tnef attachment removed]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:27:44 -0700
From: Phil Corless <pkmeco@yahoo.com>
Subject: 2001 Faves
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108231619.021426a0@pop.mindspring.com>

Here's another list of favorite CDs of 2001 (maybe some are from another
year, but I only discovered them recently, yadda yadda):

In no particular order......

1.  Steve Ward - Opening Night
2.  David Mead - Mine and Yours
3.  Ben Folds - Rockin' The Suburbs
4.  Cotton Mather - Kontiki
5.  Brad Jones - Gilt-Flake
6.  Anne Sofie von Otter/Elvis Costello - For The Stars
7.  Pernice Brothers - World Won't End
8.  Yazbek - Damascus
9.  Wondermints - Wondermints
10.  George Harrison - All Things Must Pass (remastered)
11.  The Hang Ups - So We Go
12.  The Spongetones - Odd Fellows
13.  Paul Kelly - Nothing But A Dream
14.  The Section - Strung Out on OK Computer
15.  Glenn Tilbrook - The Incomplete Glenn Tilbrook
16.  Neil Finn - One Nil
17.  The Busboys - Minimum Wage Rock n Roll

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 03:08:18 EST
From: ROBMSTEEN@cs.com
Subject: Re: Stuart Copeland
Message-ID: <f.20d6639b.296d5472@cs.com>

Damn well put Jim S! Stuart Copeland is, in my humble view, the most
innovative drummer to work in the rock idiom since...well, no-one. The
soundtrack to Rumblefish was a monument to a neglected art.

Dook

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:00:13 -0500
From: Ben Gott <bgott@rectoryschool.org>
Subject: New Radicalism
Message-ID: <B861A90D.5D20%bgott@rectoryschool.org>

Gang,

Dunks wrote:

> On the other hand we have the case of New Radicals, whose sole hit single
> "You Onlt Get What You Give" ( I think that's the title) was recently
> bludged on by an Australian car advert. Despite the rather considerable
> exposure, and the fact that commercial radio almost immediately picked it
> up again, the record company couldn't be bothered re-releasing it.

Remember when this album -- "Maybe You've Been Brainwashed Too" -- came out?
And remember how much we loved it?  If Australian radio programmers won't
reintroduce it, I sure as hell will.  You probably recall the lone single
("Don't let go / You've got the music in you") as being slightly daft and
overproduced, but that's the thrill of the album, really: it's all daft and
overproduced.  Gregg Alexander (whatever happened to him?) writes songs with
names like "Mother We Just Can't Get Enough," "Crying Like a Church on
Monday," "Jehovah Made This Whole Joint For You," and my personal favourite,
"I Hope I Didn't Just Give Away the Ending" (a song in which the main
character and his honey put cocaine in her father's coffee -- "He fell down
on the floor / He thought the coke was Sweet 'n' Low" -- in order to sell
his body parts to buy more cocaine).  You can probably still snag a copy at
your local record store.  It's keen.

Favourite albums of 2001 include Pete Yorn's "musicforthemorningafter,"
Death Cab for Cutie's "The Photo Album," Bjork's "Vespertine," Glen
Phillips's "Abulum," Guided by Voices' "Isolation Drills," and Freedy
Johnston's "Right Between the Promises."  I've also enjoyed digital
remasters of albums by The La's, The Smiths, Elvis Costello ("Brutal Youth"
is coming in one month!), Dire Straits, and XTC (of course).  (If anyone's
listening, by the way, I'm waiting for remasters of the Talking Heads'
catalog!)  Anticipated releases include the new B-52's anthology, something
by Peter Gabriel, anything by The Minus 5, XTC box sets galore, and your
mother.

-Ben

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:46:41 -0800
From: "Sughosh Varadarajan" <aqualung@hotpop.com>
Subject: Copyrights, Beatles, Jacko and what not...
Message-ID: <003e01c19981$66710b80$44a9c7cb@SughoshVaradarajan>

I notice everyone's offering loads of sympathy to The Beatles in the whole
copyright debate. And yes, I am personally quite gleeful at the thought of
Wacko Jacko being in the red by about $200million.. which just might cause
him to sell off those rights.

But hey, wait a minute. Aren't we all forgetting that our dear Macca bought
out the rights to the music of the late great Buddy Holly?

So I guess it's a chain reaction........

--
Sughosh Varadarajan,
http://Varadarajan.tripod.com
aqualung@hotpop.com
sugs@phoenixsoftech.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:19:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Todd Bernhardt <beat_town@yahoo.com>
Subject: Vocals etc.
Message-ID: <20020109161912.19907.qmail@web14609.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi:

La belle Marie a dit:

> About M. Partridge voice, I've never thought about the fact it could
> prevent people from getting into XTC... As I think of it, I've always
> love that voice.  It's more significant for someone who is not
> English, so who will automatically at first focus on the music and the
> sound of the voice, long before paying attention to the meaning of the
> lyrics. That's what I did with XTC (as with a lot of English and
> american bands), and what made me love that voice is not perhaps his
> technique (wich is getting better and better in my opinion), but the
> quality of his interpretation, the way he places words on the melody
> to bring rythm, the intensity in the voice, the strong emotions it
> conveys.

Yes, yes, yes. That's a point I didn't bring up -- the timbre of a voice is
one thing, but interpretation and placement of lyrics and melody within and
against the melody, chords, and rhythm of a song are VERY important, and
Andy excels in this (as does Colin, actually).

> Yes it's a little nasal, no Andy is no Pavarotti, but this
> voice is fucking *true*, damnit.

True indeed, but I would never say Andy has a nasal voice. Throaty, perhaps
--especially in his early days, but he's losing the ol' seal bark that used
to be his vocal trademark.

> Flat? Mmmh, I don't think (but I may be wrong).

You're not. I've heard him miss notes on live recordings, but not on studio
stuff.

Parrish, you're yanking our chains about the new GAP commercial ... right?

Dunks said:
> Advertising has almost NO effect on me other than to irritate. It does not
> influence my buying patterns -- excpet where I will consciously avoid a
> certain product because the ad shits me so much.

Oh, c'mon now, sir, advertising does influence your buying patterns because
a) it makes you aware of a product's availability, and possibly its features
and (what they say are its) benefits, and 2) even if you react to it
negatively, it's having an effect on you and your buying patterns, if only
to steer you toward another product.

and:
> Van Gogh sold ONE painting in his lifetime. What does that say except what a
> shitty agent he had?

Richard's point, I believe, was that Vincent *wanted* to sell paintings; the
fact that he didn't -- despite his brother Theo's best efforts as an agent
working in Vincent's best interests -- was a source of considerable
emotional pain for him.

and:
> Andy could, if he so chose, cut a new version of "Generals and Majors" and
> sell it for an advertising jingle if he was lucky enough to do so.

Colin might have a thing or two to say about that!

And now, in other news, the Genesis thread. Chris Coolidge said:
> For me the turning point was when Phil Collins decided he could write
> songs too and put out Face Value, and began contributing to the band's
> material as well.

I agree. When the Collins-penned song "Misunderstanding" from "Duke" hit
big, the band started their rapid descent into the bottomless pit of Pop
Blandness.  The popularity of "Face Value" and its single, "In the Air
Tonight," apparently convinced them that Phil's way was the right way.

and:
> On A Trick Of A Tail and Wind And Wuthering, for example, the
> main difference between them and The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway is the lack
> of Peter Gabriel's voice and lyrical input.

Oh, I disagree in a BIG way. IMO, those two albums are a step back to what
they were doing in their songwriting approach and "format" before "Lamb,"
which was a very adventurous undertaking. PG's departure was in part
precipitated by tension within the band over the direction they took on that
album. When PG left, they went back to what they were comfortable with
... and began to atrophy. TotT is a wonderful, lush album, by far the best
of the post-PG albums. But there was precious little growth after that --
W&W, and even "And Then There Were Three," are pretty much retreads of the
TotT format. I was heartened by "Duke," which seemed to be a bit of a shift,
but as I say above, the success of "Misunderstanding" ultimately proved to
be for the worse.

As for the qualities of the two voices, IMO Collins can only be viewed as
the poor man's Peter Gabriel. PG's voice is far more complex, with a wider
tonal range. Collins can sing higher, but so what? Gabriel can sing lower,
and can do far more with his voice than Collins ever could.

Margaret Quinn pointed out the funny mistake at inkblot magazine at
http://www.inkblotmagazine.com/rev-archive/Stevie_Wonder_Music.htm. I
checked out the review for Wasp Star, just to see if they'd switched
personnel lists, but it's correct there, with a nice little review,
too. Obviously, fan Matt Cibula has a lot of XTC in the Music of his Mind...

For those who care, please note my new e-mail address. Musician.net is about
to go down, so I had to jump ship...

-Todd

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 11:20:54 -0700
From: "Steve Johnson" <sjohnson@co.missoula.mt.us>
Subject: Free Willie
Message-ID: <sc3c27a3.015@mail.co.missoula.mt.us>

In Chalkhills Digest #8-4, Harrison Sherwood quotes me and makes a
passionate argument about artists, publishing rights, and free will.  In his
argument, he makes the following statements, which I will label "point" and
"counterpoint."

Point:

"Lennon and McCartney no more 'chose' to sign away their rights to their
songs than I 'choose' to pay my mortgage. I can 'choose' not to pay, but I
'choose' not to force my children to live under bridge abutments with people
in clashing plaids."

Counterpoint:

"During the great Apple debacle the Beatles experienced in the late '60's,
the lads found themselves losing tremendous amounts of money and needed a
lot of cash fast.  This and other contributing factors (like Dick James
selling his stake in Northern Songs) led to the Beatles selling the
publishing rights to their songs (except for some of the early ones like
'Love Me Do' which were published by various companies and are now owned by
MPL -- Macca's company)."

To Summarize:

I see.  Because they had a good reason to sell their publishing rights
(i.e., needed lots of cash fast), they had no choice in the matter.

Anybody else smell a contradiction?

I BET they needed lots of cash to pay for those limousines, Twiggy-style
babes, personal maharishis, plush accommodations, and not to mention the
really, really good Norwegian wood.  But regardless of the reason, the
apparently still-undisputed fact remains that they pushed the evil pen with
their own hands!

Look, don't get me wrong--the fab four are my musical heroes just as much as
they are anybody else's (second only to the drab duo, of course).  I'm sure
they got screwed up one side of Abbey Road and down the other.  And if
Virgin ever had any virginity, they certainly lost it with our boys from
Swindon.  But the real lesson to be learned here is that, just like in any
other biz, you and you alone are responsible for navigating your boat
through the shark-filled waters.  Even if the sharks in your harbor are the
biggest, meanest, and ugliest.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 11:48:48 -0700
From: "Steve Johnson" <sjohnson@co.missoula.mt.us>
Subject: Britney
Message-ID: <sc3c2e2d.040@mail.co.missoula.mt.us>

Kyla commented that she was "ever grateful to whomever used the name,
'Britney Shitney,' and doubted that she would ever refer to Britney by any
other name.  I must give credit where credit is due.

That title was coined by none other than Andy Partridge, in his humorous
2000 year-end music review.  (He was, as I recall, listing his mock-favorite
2000 song title by Christina Aguilera.)  I in turn pilfered it from Mr.
Partridge.  I won't re-print his even-more-humorous mock-Britney song-title,
but you can find it within the Chalkhills realm if you look hard enough.

I will take all the credit for "Dandy Andy," however, unless someone else
used it first...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 18:23:04 -0500
From: "Michael Versaci" <mwversaci@att.net>
Subject: The Lowe-Down on Genesis
Message-ID: <000501c19964$97743800$d900a8c0@atl430nb>

Folxtc,

Bob "The Cannon" O'Bannon baffles us with:

>Nick Lowe --<

[Edited For Content - Time Compressed]

>He has mastered the art of brevity and simplicity.
Quite frankly, I think Andy Partridge could learn a few things from guys
like Nick. <

Ok, I really like Nick Lowe, okay?  He has lost some steam over the years,
but back in the late 70's, he made some cool records with Dave Edmunds that
still sound good today.

BUT...

Andy doesn't need to "learn a few things" from anybody when it comes to
writing songs and making records of said songs.   Perhaps Mr. O'Bannon meant
to say:

 "Quite frankly, when compared to Andy Partridge, Nick Lowe is a
double-fisted wanker."

Chris Coolidge, wound me up (again!) with this one:

>On A Trick Of A Tail and Wind And Wuthering, for example, the
main difference between them and The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway is the lack
of Peter Gabriel's voice and lyrical input. Without him and with Phil's more
melodic voice,<

I do not share the opinion that Phil Collins is the bastard love-child of
Adolf and Eva.  "Trick of the Tail" is one of my favorite albums, and I
still think "Take Me Home" (with PG on background vox) is a great record.
Moreover, in his day, he was one of the better drummers in technique and
taste.

Having said that, though, I must confess that I do not understand the
concept of "more melodic" voice. If Mr. Coolidge means "inferior" voice or
"less emotive" voice or "Peter quit the band and someone has to sing so I'll
do my best to imitate the master and bury my part in the mix because I ain't
ever gonna be as good as Peter" voice, then I agree.

Peter was the prototype.  Phil was the gray-market knock-off brand.  Now he
is just an aging sell-out who is probably happy with the decisions he has
made.

Michael Versaci

"I'm waiting for a Renaissance to electrify us all..."
 - Kevin Gilbert

"Facts are stupid things."
 - Ronald Reagan

"Don't You Ever Dare Call Me Chickenhead"
 - Andy Partridge

"Jeff Lynne was never, ever cool."
 - Me

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:10:45 -1000
From: Jim Smart <smart@punahou.edu>
Subject: Answer me this
Message-ID: <a0433010bb8629a20ec40@[10.23.4.7]>

How is it that a really cool frood like Elvis Costello, a fab gear
chap who really knows where his towel is, can make a list of the 500
best albums and not include a single one by XTC?

See for yourself:

http://www.elviscostello.info/articles/t-z/vanity_fair.001101a.html

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:56:51 EST
From: WTDK@aol.com
Subject: The Consequences of Love and a bit of XTC thrown in for good
Message-ID: <199.df63ba.296e6b03@aol.com>

measure
> > Top 50 Albums of 2001 according to my sorry ass:
>

I must be getting old as I had a hard time coming up with more than 10!

As to the comment about Taxman--Dhani and Olivia are making royalties but
everything Harrison wrote prior to 1968 is part of Northern Songs (hence the
ironic title of his last tune for the company It's Only a Northern Song).
Michael Jackson, sadly, owns Taxman. No doubt he cashed in on its timeliness
(thank God Harrison wasn't around to see it exploited)! and, perhaps, to line
his pockets for a visit from the person of the title.

As for Duncan's comments about Consequences, Godley & Creme and 10cc--

L & Freeze Frame are together on CD from One Way Records for a limited time
as they haven't sold well. The same is also true of Consequences. Both have
been lovingly remastered for very good sound including the original artwork.

I've always felt that Consequences was a bit over rated and not G&C's best
work. It's a bit overlong for me although an interesting and, at times,
inspired work. What was Peter Cook taking the day he wrote the bits
in-between the songs?

XTC note:

I'm happy that the Japanese market got the Xtc back catalog remastered. I had
a feeling Virgin didn't do it because they felt they could fleece the public
by  allowing them to buy it again. I was very happily fleeced given the sound
quality. I have to say that the British version of the same titles leave a
lot to be desired. The artwork is tiny and impossible to read. The sound is,
of course, terrific regardless of which version you purchase.  A pity they
couldn't scour the vaults and find some extras to throw on besides the bonus
tracks. I'm happy they finally got back to where they once belonged....after
the albums!

Duncan also stated--

>And if we're talking about exposure, we should rightly ask why the
post-split 10cc album "Deceptive Bends" was a huge hit when Godley and
Creme's "Consequences" (by far the more enduring work IMO) is one of the
great "lost" records of the century?<

More likely they realized it DB was the more commercial of the two and at 1/3
the length, well, consumers were more likely to go for it! Plus it had that
catchy hit single.....I'm Not in Love...oh, I'm sorry, The Things We Do For
Love. Love was all around I guess. I felt that felt that Feel the Benefit
from DB was what Mercury was expecting from G&C. It's G&C lite but still
quite a good tune. That whole album is very good but could have benefited
from G&C's twisted taken on life.

That's all I have to say 'cause I can't say no more

Wayne

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:53:35 -0800 (PST)
From: The Colonel <captainextraneous@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: XTC best-of list ranking
Message-ID: <20020110195335.10971.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com>

All right, I've noticed that a lot of the lists seem
pretty similar. For that reason, I've decided to post
mine...

Apple Venus Vol. 1
Oranges And Lemons
Skylarking
Dukes of Stratosphear - Chips...
Black Sea
Nonsuch
White Music
English Settlement
Wasp Star
Drums And Wires
The Big Express
Rag & Bone Buffet
Mummer
Go 2

-The Colonel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:05:49 -0500
From: Ben Gott <bgott@rectoryschool.org>
Subject: The dBs
Message-ID: <B8636C5C.5D4E%bgott@rectoryschool.org>

Gang,

Could someone tell me (off list) about The dBs?  I just picked up Chris
Stamey's "Fireworks" in the $4.99 bin at Strawberries, and I love it.  So
what's up?

-Ben

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:39:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Pastula <pastula12@yahoo.com>
Subject: Giant-spotting
Message-ID: <20020111013937.98180.qmail@web20203.mail.yahoo.com>

In response...

>Kerry Minnear was *not* the vocalist...he was the
>outrageously talented
>keyboardist.

I tried to look back at this thread, but just to
clairify (for those who care, which might just be me,
but there you go...):

Kerry and Derek Schulman were *both* vocalists in
Gentle Giant, with Kerry taking about 40% of the lead
voice work on the albums, I'm guessing.  In concert,
though, his voice was too soft to be effectively
amplified on stage, so the band would either focus
more on Derek's material or let him sing the Kerry
parts live.

But the author of the above comment is certainly
correct in one aspect -- that Gentle Giant is
fantastic, and I would go so far as to say they are
without a doubt the best progressive rock band ever.
Seriously, if you haven't heard them, check them out;
even if you think you don't like prog, you'll be
amazed at how inviting their music can be despite its
complexity.

Aaron.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:33:08 -0500
From: Ben Gott <bgott@rectoryschool.org>
Subject: Go, Yazbek!
Message-ID: <B863C723.5D5C%bgott@rectoryschool.org>

Goobers,

So I was surfing the web, trying to find out some of the low-down on the
2002 Grammy nominees, when I spotted this category:

Musical Show Album:
The Full Monty--The Broadway Musical
Mamma Mia! The Musical
The Producers
Seussical the Musical
Sweeney Todd: Live at the New York Philharmonic

Go, Yazbek!  Win that Grammy!  That'll feel much better after that shaft at
the Tony Awards, huh?  Kick some "Producers" ass!

In other news, They Might Be Giants were nominated in the "Song Written for
Motion Picture, Television or Other Visual Media" category for "Boss of Me"
(from the terrific show "Malcom in the Middle"), Cliff Martinez's incredible
ambient score for "Traffic" was nominated in the -- duh -- "Score Soundtrack
Album" category, David Byrne's "Look into the Eyeball" was nominated in the
"Recording Package" category, and T-Bone Burnett is up against Dr. Dre,
Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis, and Nigel Godrich in the "Producer of the Year,
Non-Classical" category.

But did you see the crap they nominated for Artist/Song/Record of the Year?
Good God!  Looks like they save the good stuff for the dregs, huh?

In other news, does anyone want to burn a copy of The Feelies' "The Good
Earth" for me?

-Ben

------------------------------

End of Chalkhills Digest #8-5
*****************************

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