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Subject: Chalkhills Digest #8-3


          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 8, Number 3

                  Sunday, 6 January 2002

Topics:

               Chirp, Chirp, Jangle, Jangle
                  The views expressed...
                          A Poem
                Lists of Lists upon Lists
               it's growing greeeeeeeen...
                  now THAT's Italian...
                      Todds and sods
                  bouquets & nosegays...
                    Two Sheds For Dave
                 www.optimismsflames.com
                    Andy on the Radio
                     Dave's not here
                 PatOrtman dot communist
                  Phil And Pete (NO XTC)
           Own Your Rights = Know Your Rights.
         What's the biggest stinger on Wasp Star?
          Supertramp, singers, and shamelessness
                 Phil Collins [summed up]
                      Policing Phil

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Spokes of the Sun God delay you, spray you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 03:42:13 EST
From: WTDK@aol.com
Subject: Chirp, Chirp, Jangle, Jangle
Message-ID: <163.697f772.2966c4e5@aol.com>

In a message dated 1/3/02 9:43:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
somebody writes:

> By that definition half
> >of the stuff the Raspberries and Badfinger did wasn't power pop.  I guess
> >because Badfinger did ballads like Day After Day they aren't a power pop
> >band.  Same with the Raspberries and the tune Overnight Sensation.>

from Scott (and sorry about the misidentification)

> Perhaps, but "Baby Blue" and "Go All the Way" *are* power pop songs, by any
> reasonable definition (including my intentionally narrow one). I think you'd
> be hard pressed to convince anyone (well, me at least) that anything on
> Breakfast in America truly qualifies as power pop. Your point seems to be
> that Supertramp is power pop because YOU SAY IT IS, but you don't say WHY.
> Well, fine. By that reasoning, if I wanted to say that GWAR is a klezmer
> band then I'd be right too, though I'd be making a right twit of myself in
> the process.
>
> I hear the pop, Wayne, don't get me wrong. I just don't hear the power

You could be right--I suppose my definition of power pop began with classics
like the aforementioned tunes. I also came to the realization that  the power
chords or guitar riffs for a power pop song could be replaced by piano. I
always thought that Oh Darling , Just Another Nervous Wreck, Gone Hollywood
and Child of Vision kind of fit the bill. Replace the power chords with piano
and you've got it (but that's just me).

As to the reedy vocals, well, I was thinking of George on While My Guitar
Gently Weeps, Here Comes The Sun and not John or Paul. There are a number of
Supertramp tunes where their trademark sound reminds me a bit of the Beatles.
It has less to do with how it sounds and more to do with the chord
progressions me thinks.

Nevertheless, these guys were generated some great pop music when at their
peak.

I agree with your comment, Scott, about how a singer's voice can be enough to
turn off a listener. I played English Settlement to my brother one time
thinking he would marvel at Andy's vocals on Snowman and Jason. He looked at
me and said, "how can you listen to this stuff he's flat".  I certainly have
my share of performers I don't care for precisely for this (or other minor
reasons). For example, Jim Morrison's lyrics always and the organ on The
Doors recordings never appealed to me. Which is surprisingly given the fact
that I do like Echo and the Bunnymen (as long as Ian McCulloch doesn't try
and ape Morrison too much).

While I love Martin Newell and the Cleaners from Venus, the really early
stuff has such poor fidelity that it makes it hard for me to listen to. I
know that shouldn't matter but Martin's music deserves much cleaner
production values.

Speaking of Macca (which we weren't) I haven't seen much mention of the
Listen to What the Man Said tribute CD. It has a couple of killer remakes
(including Too Many People by the Finn Brothers and Mathew Sweet's take on
Every night). It just goes to remind you what a great songwriter Macca could
be when in top form.

Skylarking--Any body else notice that the booklet for the English reissue has
an error attributing Big Day to Andy and not Colin? While the sound is great
(I have the album replica reissues from Japan so can't say this about all of
them), the booklets need a magnifying glass to read through! Gee--think it
would have hurt to add a couple of extra pages and make the credits/lyrics
large enough to read?

I was very disappointed by The Dukes reissue as it didn't include the lyrics
(the Geffen version had less pix but the lyrics made up for that).

"And to think--a dime used to be able to buy you a cup of joe"

Hope everyone had a safe and uneventful new year!

Wayne

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 12:56:40
From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@hotmail.com>
Subject: The views expressed...
Message-ID: <F262TZyvINugMbobrbt0001246c@hotmail.com>

>From: Chris Vreeland <CVREELAND@austin.rr.com>
>Subject: Thelonius Partridge, Colin Mingus, and the much balleyhooed death
>of radio

>XTC, the Jazz band.

This I like. About time someone homed in on this. Perhaps we can begin
agitating for Andy to record your actual jazz album? I recall reading
someone here saying they wanted to record Angus Young doing a straight blues
album and I see a similarity of concept.

>and if they're not buying yachts, at least they're not having to watch the
>execs over at Universal buying yachts with THEIR money.
>Radio is dying because it deserves to die.

Testify, brother, testify!

>I foresee micropayments for MP3 files, purchased directly from bands off of
>their independently produced and owned websites taking as big a bite out of
>the fat hide of the "industry's" ass as Napster.

"For I have seen the Promised Land ..."

>From: WTDK@aol.com
>Subject: The future is in plastics.
>
>Re: The Use of music in commercials. It all comes down to being lazy. Y
<snip> (with the greatest respect)

>Interesting thread here--anybody else have any thoughts?
>
>Wayne

I can't top that. Well said.

>From: "Todd and Jennifer Bernhardt" <toddjenn@erols.com>
>Subject: Just being bitchy

>Dan Wasser listed some faves, and asked:
>
> > XTC - Wasp Star
> > Crimson - Beat
> > Zappa - One Size Fits All
> > Queen - The Miracle
> > Guess Who - Road Food
> > Bowie - Scary Monsters
> > ELO - Out of the Blue
> > Beatles - Abbey Road
> > ELP - Brain Salad Surgery
> > Kate Bush - The Dreaming
> >
> > So, what would you recommend?
>
>I'd recommend you lose the ELO! (And substitute an earlier Queen album,
>such as Sheer Heart Attack or Queen II...)
>
>-Todd

Really? OK, here's mine, based on the idea of albums I keep going back to:

- Dylan: Blonde On Blonde
- Gomez: Bring It On (is this the best album in history?)
- Beach Boys: Disc II of the "Good Vibrations" Boxed Set
- David Bowie: Low
- Roxy Music: Country Life
- Steely Dan: Two Against Nature
- Genesis: Selling England By The Pound
- Yes: Yessongs
- Beatles: Revolver
- Kate Bush: Never For Ever
- Peter Gabriel: (no.3)
- XTC: Black Sea
- Stevie Wonder: Innervisions
- Traffic: Mr Fantasy
- Split Enz: Mental Notes
- Frank Zappa: The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life

I could go on and on ...

* * *

>From: MinerWerks
>Subject:The eternal art vs. commerce dilly-o

>I am not even in the least a sports fan, but ... <snip>
>... those who follow it remember the players in the
>same way many of us remember  musicians.

Well there's no acounting for taste ...

>Why are you more upset with the advertising companies than you are
>with the people who submit to their messages? The advertising agencies are
>made up of people too. Do they possess some superpowers the average person
>is incapable of defeating? You already said the masses are the fools. Then,
>whose fault is it, really, that advertising works?

They poseess access to the media. Isn't that a superpower?

>>The perfect advertisement would render us incapable of anything except
>>buying that product. And don't think they wouldn't try ANYTHING to do
>>that.

>Christ, I think you *are* more cynical than I am.

Oh yeah, Id imagine so.

>And who's fault is THAT? I hate to see people exploited and cheated, but by
>this point in music history, there is a perfectly clear legacy from those
>that have come before. I learned from the mistakes of The
>Beatles and XTC. I knew before I was 20 the pitfalls of the "music
>business" from reading about them. If someone is really interested in
>protecting their music, then they should avoid the agents, managers,
>promoters and publishers and learn for themselves how it's done. Do
>the work usually done by the army of parasites yourself, or at least
>hire someone you trust and don't sign your life away to someone with
>big (and usually empty) promises.

Well, you'd think so, but as recently as Robbie Williams it seems that young
men and/or women with tons of talent but little business sense are still
lining up to be exploited.

* * *

>From: "Steve Johnson"
>Subject: We're All (Not) Light

>"Let's all lighten up."  - Joe Jackson

>I'd like to chime in on the debate about using pop songs (even good
>ones) in dog sweater ads.
>
>Point Number One:  Everyone must work.  >While we'd all like to work as
>recording artists, putting out a record every couple of years, and walking
>our sweatered dogs and dreaming up new songs in the interim, let's face it,
>we can't all make a living that way.  So we slog away, as teachers,
>accountants, computer salespeople, food critics, financial advisers,
>janitors, government workers, sandwich makers, astrologers, miners, etc.

Fine by me. Unfortunately this utopian scenario fails to account for racist
police, corrupt jurists, greedy company directors, secret agents, mulllahs,
terrorist cell members, mining company lobbyists, germ warfare researchers,
tobacco company marketing consultants, and the people who invent those
idiotic toys you find in discount stores.

>Point Number Two:  Making music is a job.  Whether you're Dandy Andy or
>Britney Shitney, if you're a recording artist, it's just another job.  It's
>a hell of a lot better job than most, but it's a job.

No argument there.

>Point Number Three:  If you don't like it, don't buy it.  Cut the umbilical
>(pronounced "um-bi-LIKE-al") cord on your TV.  Walk right past Burger Queen
>and McWendy's.  Stay the hell out of the Gap and the big fat mall that
>surrounds it.  Only read the articles in Playgirl.

Bwahahaha. *That* also I like.

>Whatever.  The only reason ad agencies, middlemen, public relations firms,
>and record companies exist is because people buy the stuff that they sell.
>And unless you live in a country where you're only allowed to buy
>government-issue thongs,
>nobody's making you buy it.

True, but this is not a "value free" activity. And admitting the reality of
a situation does not one agrees with it.

And would that our government issued thongs, since they are known to be the
national footwear hereabouts.

>Point Number Four:  And this will be my last [applause].  Let's not treat
>pop songs like Rembrandts (oops, maybe I should say "Renoirs," unless some
>pop group is also using that moniker).  No >artist is forced to sign away
>rights to songs.

Wanna bet? And some never get the (informed) choice. Ask John Fogerty. I
daresay most of the fortune Saul Zaentz invested in Lord Of The Rings
stemmed from the nice little earner he has enjoyed thanks to his control of
the Creedence Songbook.

Dunks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:05:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Steve Johnson <simpleton_01@yahoo.com>
Subject: A Poem
Message-ID: <20020104190541.83973.qmail@web20608.mail.yahoo.com>

"Fellate"
"Fellated"
"Did Fellate"
The verb that makes me conjugate!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:28:51 -0800 (PST)
From: <ringostr@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Lists of Lists upon Lists
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201041528510.10133@hymn03.u.washington.edu>

Top 50 Albums of 2001 according to my sorry ass:
 1. Let the War against Music Begin - The Minus 5
 2. Days of Speed - Paul Weller
 3. Love and Theft - Bob Dylan
 4. The Convincer - Nick Lowe
 5. One Nil - Neil Finn
 6. Vespertine - Bjork
 7. The World Won't End - Pernice Brothers
 8. Mink Car - They Might Be Giants
 9. Blue Boy - Ron Sexsmith
10. New American Language - Dan Bern
11. We Love Life - Pulp
12. Rockin' the Suburbs - Ben Folds
13. Because We Hate You - Young Fresh Fellows
14. Worlds Collide: Live at the St. James - Neil Finn and Friends
15. Why That Doesn't Surprise Me - The Lucksmiths
16. The Incomplete Glenn Tilbrook - Glenn Tilbrook
17. Look Into the Eyeball - David Byrne
18. Meaningless - Jon Brion
19. Her Majesty of High Heels and Eye Shadow - Jonathan Richman
20. Amnesiac- Radiohead
21. I'm Waking Up To Us - Belle & Sebastian
22. Dog in the Sand - Frank Black and the Catholics
23. Ten New Songs - Leonard Cohen
24. Reveal - R.E.M
25. Stephen Malkmus - Stephen Malkmus
26. The Invisible Band - Travis
27. Tenacious D - Tenacious D
28. Ryan Adams - Gold
29. Oh, Inverted World - The Shins
30. Is This It - The Strokes
31. Necessity: the 4-Track years - Jason Falkner
32. Damascus - Yazbek
33. Daft Punk - Discovery
34. Poses - Rufus Wainwright
35. Jonathan David - Belle & Sebastian
36. Gorrillaz - Gorrillaz
37. The Gunman and Other Stories - Prefab Sprout
38. Air - 10,000 Hz Legend
39. Satellite Rides - Old 97s
40. White Blood Cells - The White Stripes
41. I Might Be Wrong (Live Recordings) - Radiohead
42. Feeding the Gods - Tim Finn
43. Driving Rain - Paul McCartney
44. Ancient Melodies of the Future - Built To Spill
45. Pneumonia - Whiskeytown
46. Hot Shots II - The Beta Band
47. Essence - Lucinda Williams
48. Isolation Drills - Guided By Voices
49. God Bless the Go-Go's - Go-Go's
50. For the Stars - Anne Sophie von Otter and Elvis Costello

Most Disappointing Releases of 2001:
1. Paul McCartney - Driving Rain
2. Ancient Melodies of the Future - Built to Spill
3. The Gunman and Other Stories - Prefab Sprout
4. Damascus - Yazbek
5. Feeding the Gods - Tim Finn
6. God Bless the Go-Go's - Go-Go's

Best Reissues of 2001:
1. Underwater Moonlight- The Soft Boys
2. Los Angeles - X
3. Homegrown- XTC
4. Spike- Elvis Costello
5. Under The Big Black Sun - X
Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA
"Life boring when you no can die" -Solomon Grundy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:38:56 -0500
From: Virginia Rosenberg <vmr423@earthlink.net>
Subject: it's growing greeeeeeeen...
Message-ID: <B85BA740.891%vmr423@earthlink.net>

Hi Richard-

Thanks for your attempt to save me from American chauvinism. It hadn't
really occurred to me that money trees elsewhere might not be green since
the ones I have in my yard all have lovely green foliage (on at least a
part-time basis). Naturally, I'm hoping once the trees have matured & the
currency finally blooms, that I'll be harvesting greenbacks so I don't have
to fiddle about with exchange rates, etc.

Of course, with my luck, I'll end up with a lovely supply of Confederate
dollars and no-longer-viable European currency... Sigh. Maybe I'll be able
to sell cuttings to horticulturists who are (nostalgic) numismatists as
well?

Optimistically yours,
Virginia

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:23:04 -0500
From: Virginia Rosenberg <vmr423@earthlink.net>
Subject: now THAT's Italian...
Message-ID: <B85BB198.891%vmr423@earthlink.net>

Greetings to ye fair Ms. Brown-

I am all agog to hear that anyone ever thought "Bang a Gong"  might pass as
an  appropriate 'jingle' for hawking Ragu wares of any ilk, but must confess
that the concept of 'microwaveable pasta' is likewise mind-boggling since I
already think of no-nuked pasta as a convenience food...

Still, this has the ring of truth (of the stranger than fiction variety). I
guess I should be relieved I haven't yet reached the stage where nothing
surprises me anymore?

Best regards,
Virginia

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:43:48 -0500
From: "Scott Barnard" <brainiacsdaughter@hotmail.com>
Subject: Todds and sods
Message-ID: <F21nqz9NJshIQXG4DSR00013989@hotmail.com>

Chris said:

>Couldn't help noticing, in the Behind The Music on Genesis on VH1(they were
>doing a Behind The Music marathon, every single one they'd ever produced,
>ending yesterday), they referred to the later 80's/early 90's Genesis as
>"power pop." Depends on how broad your definition of power pop is, I
>suppose; if Genesis is power pop, then it's not too much of a stretch to
>call Supertramp power pop as well.>

I suppose that I'm now sufficiently chastened to admit that my definition is
perhaps too restrictive. That you lived chez nous in the '70's obviously
earns you Supertramp Expert credentials, Chris. But I'm still not convinced
that VH1's opinion is an ideal one upon which to base an argument.

Steve said:

>While I almost always agree with Todd Bernhardt, I must take issue
>with at least part of his comments re Supertramp: "...chirpy electric
>pianos, precious, reedy vocals and the least-swinging rhythm section
>of the rock era">

Come on, Todd! Speak up! Defend yourself, man!

XTC content: I ordered the Dukes CD from the official XTC site and received
my copy signed in groovy silver ink by Sir John Johns and The Red Curtain. I
nearly wet 'em!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:51:16 -0500
From: Virginia Rosenberg <vmr423@earthlink.net>
Subject: bouquets & nosegays...
Message-ID: <B85BB834.892%vmr423@earthlink.net>

Dear Mr. Loring,

    Just a quick note to thank you for the beautiful flowers- the daisies
were so lovely and modest- and the orchids!- goodness, what an extravagant
amount of orchids you sent! They've quite taken over - not only the house,
but all the roads in the neighborhood- we all have to push our Lupo's on the
side of the roads so we can wind our ways home. (Noone really minds,
though.)

    What a lovely and thoughtful gift.

                                                               Many thanks,
                                                                Virginia

Re:

William (I'm buying flowers for everyone, thanks Iggy!) Loring

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:29:06 -0600
From: "Joe Funk" <twosheds@mindspring.com>
Subject: Two Sheds For Dave
Message-ID: <000101c195a2$1ae154a0$93a7343f@user>

Chris Vreeland spoketh:

> And while you're at it, support a couple DIY Chalkies, like
> Duncan Watt, and Two Sheds (Jomama's band) who both have very good
> CD's for sale on their respective websites. Duncan even sent me a
> nice signed poster with the CD, and hey, wasn't that your handwriting
> on the envelope, too? You can order here:
> http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~kanuba/main/index.html  and contact Joe
> at twosheds@mindspring.com.

Thanks, Chris!!

Actually, you can hear (or download) 3 of our songs at:
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/183/two_sheds.html

More info:
http://www.angelfire.com/art/twosheds/index.html

Sorry about the shameless self promotion, but Chris brought
it up...

Steve "Man, this is good coffee!" Oleson sayeth:

>Speaking of "precious reedy vocals" I'm imagine that even Mr Bernhardt
>can overlook Kerry Minnear's vocals on Gentle Giant recordings, and
>concentrate on their extravagent musicianship and compositional
>creativity.

I don't think I would classify Kerry Minnear's voice as "Reedy"..?
Pastoral and bit feminine perhaps, but certainly not "Reedy"....
His vocals on "Aspirations" from "The Power and the Glory"
are about as beautiful as it gets.

XTC content:  Just finished listening to my recently purchased
"Nonsuch" remaster, and it REALLY -  FINALLY dawned on me..

...XTC was a much better band with Dave Gregory....

Don't get me wrong- I think Wasp Star is superb!!  But it
would have been oh so much better with Dave..   Not just
his wonderful guitar playing...  What's really missing is his
textured keyboard antics!!  I'll probably get spanked for
this one, but his solo on "The Smartest Monkeys" is Superb!!
Not to mention his organ work and piano (especially on "Rook")..

He was/is definitely taken for granted IMHO..

Jomama
Inventor of The Hand-Held Biscuit

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 21:14:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Wes Long <optimismsflames@yahoo.com>
Subject: www.optimismsflames.com
Message-ID: <20020105051443.13590.qmail@web14907.mail.yahoo.com>

Kidz:

We're far from finished, but you gotta launch the damn
thing sometime... right? Gangway, we're coming
through... Jan 6, 2002.

To view us properly you will have to have a fairly
quick connection. 56k will get it done, but allow some
time for downloading. Cable or adsl is ideal.  But
wait, there's more; you will also need to have your
screen resolution set to 1024 x 768 or LARGER.

I realize that some of you will not be able to meet
these requirements and I apologize; however, there are
many great XTC sites online and we wanted to do
something a bit different.

Those of you able to check us out will discover many
images you've not seen before... as well as free
exclusive audio.

Thank you to everyone who has aided me in the last
year with this hobby gone mad.  Very special thanks
to: Andy Partridge for the support, aid & inspiration;
Dave Gregory for putting up with my requests and
placing pen to paper as smoothly as he does pick to
string (sorry 'bout that whole "attachment" thing
Dave); Ian Gregory for working with us and for putting
up with Todd Bernhardt, who did a splendid job of
interviewing Ian (don't take my word for it... drop by
the site and download it for yourself); and lastly I
want to thank a rather brilliant architect who wishes
to remain nameless, impossible to have done anything
resembling this without you my friend.

Thanks to John for keeping us all in touch and for
providing such a Relph, uh.. wealth of information at
Chalkhills.

Happy New Year,

wesLONG

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:41:35 -0000
From: "Belinda" <b.blanchard@btinternet.com>
Subject: Andy on the Radio
Message-ID: <001001c195c4$cacf5ac0$ae7b7bd5@btopenworld.com>

Hi people

OK this is kind of embarrassing.

Here in London we get BBC London local radio station.  On the whole it is
now crap. However between 9am and 12 noon weekdays there is the Robert Elms
show. He also used to be - well, a bit annoying but he has got much better
since he concentrates on how wonderful London is and all things London. It's
a huge education to listen to his guests and listeners who call in.  You can
actually get BBC London through the internet also obviously the world over.

SO - on Tuesdays and Thursday mornings his live show is accompanied by a
chat room which I go in under the nick PeckhamRose.  It's fun and there's
lots of smart witty people in there also. All the regulars in the chatroom
know I am into XTC and a motorcyclist and we all get along grand.
Occasionally when Robert Elms or a guest has a London question the chat room
is looked into for advice and help, which we give and sometimes it's
sensible advice and help too with answers to particular London type
questions.  PeckhamRose - my nickname - has been mentioned on air once or
twice when some thing I have said that is useful in the chat room, gets
quoted on air.

SO - last Thursday 3rd Jan I changed my nick to AndyPartridgeOfXTC for a
giggle and the regulars laffed knowing it was me.  On the radio Robert Elms
was talking about my local beautiful cemetery, Nunhead Cemetery, and I gave
some facts about it and was quoted on air by Robert Elms - he said something
like "AndyPartridgeOfXTC from the chat room has just answered the question
about Nunhead Cemetery, thus..."

This is where it goes downhill.  My best mate rang with a long problem with
her Mum so I turned down the radio and walked away from the computer.

As they say in all the best sports TV shows: What Happened Next?

Yep - what I DIDN'T know till LATER happened next was that some friend of
Andy's was listening to the radio, heard AndyPartridgeofXTC being quoted,
rang up his mate Andy Partridge who HIMSELF rang up Robert Elms.

Meanwhile my mate on the phone was banging on about what a nasty piece of
work her Mum is these days...

... After about ten minutes I glanced at the computer and all my mates were
writing: "COME BACK PECKHAM ROSE" "WHERE ARE YOU?" "ARE YOU LISTENING TO THE
RADIO?" So I turned up the volume.  While my poor mate was talking to me
about her Mum, Andy Partridge was talking about his five years strike with
Virgin and their  albums that had been re-released.  I had no tape
available.  I typed something like "I WAS IN THE DEAR GOD VIDEO - HELLO
ANDY!!!!" and Robert said that out loud on the radio, and Andy Partridge
said "Everybody was in the bloody Dear God video!"  Then I heard him say
goodbye. And he never got to know my real nickname was PeckhamRose or he may
have made some comment about the nickname's source!

My friend finally left. I went back to the chatroom. AP was gone. End of
story.
Life eh?  And don't worry - my mate is OK.  Christmas time is a bitch for
some families huh?
Next Tuesday I am going in as MarkKingFromLevel42, and disconnect the phone.

Happy New Year.
>From Belinda aka PeckhamRose

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 08:42:33 -0500
From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <cauldron@together.net>
Subject: Dave's not here
Message-ID: <B85C6CF9.1D90%cauldron@together.net>

on 1/4/02 12:22 AM, eriC draveS wrote:

> Hmmm... that'd just the Dukes, not XTC. Still, there is one important PF
> influence in XTC, and that is, as time goes on there are fewer members of
> the group. Roger Waters can be seen as a precursor of Dave Gregory,
> especially as I haven't bought any DG solo albums...
> -----
> Hmmm... maybe I should try to find a PF Digest as well, but I really don't
> like them the way I used to. If you look at the later PF albums they lose
> quality, but XTC ones aren't that bad yet (Wasp Star seems to be just
> slightly lower until the last song).

  How DARE you compare Dave Gregory to Roger Waters! :-) No resemblance
whatsoever, though a comparison of Dave Gregory with Dave Gilmour would be
closer, they're both talented guitarists and arrangers who were more
responsible for the sound of their respective bands than both the public and
the respective strongwilled frontmen give them credit for. And both have
limitations in the lyric writing department, Gregory to his credit hasn't
tried to write his own lyrics to my knowledge, while Gilmour has tended to
need help from others on the two post-RW Floyd albums, especially A
Momentary Lapse of Reason. The credits will show as much as five songwriting
credits on some songs, mostly Gilmour and producer Bob Ezrin, but many other
song doctors providing input as well.
  As for solo albums, the only Dave Gregory solo album I know of is
Remoulds, which I think was only available on the Internet and not
officially released in stores, and judging from the three songs I heard,
consists of well-arranged and faithful covers showcasing his capable but
unremarkable voice, a voice that's invaluable for backup vocals but only
adequate on its own. Similar to Elliot Easton of The Cars, whose 1985 solo
album I highly reccommend for its surprisingly good songwriting and prefer
to anything the Cars put out. But as for Roger Waters, his only solo album
that interested me was Radio Kaos, which sounded like he worked a little
harder on it than the others. The rest were like "Hi, I'm Roger Waters; this
is my ego." He should collaborate with Dennis Deyoung of Styx,(assuming they
can be in the same room for more than five minutes) another fevered ego from
the 70's whose own band toured without him last year because he wasn't ready
to tour yet. As Styx guitarist James Young put it on Behind The Music, "It
was his way or the highway, so we chose the highway."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 08:16:30 -0800
From: Pat <pattrex@emptystreet.com>
Subject: PatOrtman dot communist
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020105080045.01242be0@emptystreet.com>

Hey Vee Tube,

Thanks for the personal attack on me on Chalkhills this morning. I got a
few emails from other musicians on Chalkhills who have offered support and
their own experiences with regard to making people aware of your music
without 'selling out'. So, obviously, not everyone feels the way you do. If
I were you I'd find ways to get past the hate you obviously have problems
with as it only makes you sound like a clueless wanker.

Pat Ortman

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 08:20:57 -0800
From: Pat <pattrex@emptystreet.com>
Subject: Phil And Pete (NO XTC)
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020105081729.01241aa0@emptystreet.com>

Edward Said:
>So did I. It was the vertiginous, rollercoaster drop in lyric quality (and,
>frankly, choon quality) that made post-PG Genesis such a pale and dull
>imitation; from the sublime (or at least pretty interesting) to the ...er
>... not sublime at all, actually.

I agree. I was introduced to Genesis via the We Can't Dance CD, and though
I enjoyed it I was far more impressed with Peter Gabriel's solo work
(except for Ovo). It had more depth, right off the bat. It took a while to
delve back into the far back Genesis catalog, but was definitely worth the
trip. Lyrics are paramount, and Peter was it. I'm still hoping his next CD
is decent, though... did not like Ovo at all.

Pat Ortman
"Vee Tube's favorite Chalkhills Musician"!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:20:23 -0700
From: "Brent Dougans" <Brent.Dougans@telus.com>
Subject: Own Your Rights = Know Your Rights.
Message-ID: <3F606F844841D31186D000805F57638703A05014@bce1.ent.agt.ab.ca>

    While the saga of the Beatles and Rolling Stones is sad, back in 1962,
not everybody was getting screwed over in the music industry.

In 1962, recording artist Dean Martin moved from Capitol Records
to Frank Sinatra's label Reprise distributed by Warner Bros. back then.
Dean recorded albums and leased them back to Reprise.
Today, the Dean Martin Family Trust controls his Reprise catalogue.

Dean's Reprise album catalogue has just been released on CD by Collectors
Choice Music in the US and as 2 box sets by Bear Family in Germany.
Bear Family Box Sets are unbelievable. Does anyone do it better?

Undoubtedly, both Dean and Frank learned from previous lousy
recording contracts with Capitol and Frank with Columbia previous.

XTC, The Beatles & The Stones were all young and inexperienced.
Many artists today like Toni Braxton, TLC, LeAnn Rimes all have had contract
problems.
Same record labels, different artists and different times.

First contracts = worst contracts.
Beggars can't be choosers.

Here's hoping Andy and Colin and Dave had some Christmas cheer under the
tree this year.

And folks, please stop stomping on other music to make XTC appear 'better'.
The music of XTC stands up on it's own just fine.

Any 'pop' comparisons between Britney or Mariah and XTC are pointless.
Except both Britney and Mariah fill out a cardigan better than Andy or
Colin.
I won't comment on trousers though...

Brent

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 10:20:06 -0800
From: "Sughosh Varadarajan" <aqualung@hotpop.com>
Subject: What's the biggest stinger on Wasp Star?
Message-ID: <001001c196e0$4aa73f80$7aa9c7cb@SughoshVaradarajan>

Hey folks!

Seems to me there's been a considerable lack of XTC content lately. I'm not
complaining - always nice to hear what people have to say. But anyways, I've
decided to try and bring our Swindon lads back into the spotlight here at
chalkhills. That's after I'm done with my 2 cents on what's been goin' down
lately.

Just when the whole Phil Collins thingie seemed to be dying down, out pops
Pink Floyd to take center stage. Not something I particularly
relish, 'cos I happen to agree with Mr. Partridge - I swear by Piper at the
gates of dawn. While I'm willing to accept that Dark side & co. were all
fairly good albums, I find them a tad over-rated (and yes, in the
new-world's
debate of DSOTM v/s OK Computer, I'd vote for the latter). Pink Floyd were
really a bit too dreary for my taste. If you really want  an intense,
powerful concept album that explores the complexities of characters,
situations and emotions, I think 'Quadrophenia' beats Dark side by a good
bit. As for Waters solos, well, I've heard 'Amused to death' and I found it
positively boring.

Well, that's enough of that. Here's my best of 2001 (some of these albums
are from 2000, but only made it to India last year).

Travis - The invisible band
REM - Reveal
Radiohead - Amnesiac
David Gray - White Ladder / Lost songs 95-98
Coldplay - Parachutes
Suzanne Vega - Songs in red and gray
Clem Snide - The ghost of fashion
Badly Drawn Boy - The hour of bewilderbeast
(plus I've got the new Starsailor album which I've only just started
listening to - sounds quite good so far)

And now, at long last, finally we come to the XTC content. I don't know if
this has been done before, but I'd like to know what everyone's favourite
track on Wasp Star is. Why don't we take a vote ? Everyone mail me at
aqualung@hotpop.com with your choices, and I'll post the results after a
week or so.

Cheerio !!
Sughosh.

--
"Some might say they don't believe in Heaven
   Go and tell it to the man who lives in Hell."
     - Noel Gallagher

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 09:24:26 -0500
From: "Todd and Jennifer Bernhardt" <toddjenn@erols.com>
Subject: Supertramp, singers, and shamelessness
Message-ID: <NABBKDAOLCDJBNEFDNLLKECACJAA.toddjenn@erols.com>

Hi:

Well, I certainly know more about Pink Floyd after issue #8-2 than I did
... as part of that education process, Jon Rosenberger (welcome back,
Mole!) said:

> And Dark side well we all know what Dark side is used for.

As a soundtrack to "The Wizard of Oz"?

And Austin's own Steve Oleson said:
> While I almost always agree with Todd Bernhardt, I must take issue
> with at least part of his comments re Supertramp: "...chirpy electric
> pianos, precious, reedy vocals and the least-swinging rhythm section
> of the rock era"

Ooh, better nip this one in the bud right now, even given Scott
Barnard's acceptance of responsibility in the same issue for that quote.
I'm not a big fan of Supertramp, but I don't hate them, either. I've
have to agree w/Scott in that I think they're pop sans power. But I sure
heard worse things on the radio when they were around.

But Steve-o, you bring up an interesting point about how people focus
on, and react to -- sometimes disproportionately -- the quality of a
vocalist's voice. But I think this is a natural reaction, for a number
of reasons, esp. given the role of the lead singer in pop music as
"deliverer of the main melody." I was thinking about Mike Keneally the
other day, and though I love his music and think he has a fine voice, I
don't think he has a *unique* voice, one that reaches out and demands
your attention (like Jason Falkner, say, or Kevin Gilbert ... of course,
this list could go on -- have at it, folks).

At the same time, I don't think he turns people off, either, like some
of the distinctive voices you mention (funny, some of those groups --
Todd R., Steely Dan, Elvis C. -- are favorites of mine, and the unique
quality of the singer's voice is one of the main reasons why). I agree
that XTC -- Andy, really -- falls into this camp, which is one reason
why I'll often choose a Colin song to introduce neophytes to XTC. Of
course, I love Andy's voice for its unique qualities, and always have --
and, having covered some XTC songs, have a lot of respect for his voice
and its range. Fucker can *sing*.

But I'm also guilty when it comes to being turned off to bands by the
quality of the lead vocal. Just looking at prog bands (which for some
reason often have the most annoying vocalists), I have to be in a
nostalgic mood to listen to Yes nowadays, because Jon Anderson's refusal
to undergo adolescence just plain gets on my nerves sometimes. I skip
songs w/vocals on Happy the Man albums. I find Phil Collins' voice to be
annoyingly nasal and thin, and yes, I'm probably not as big a fan of
Gentle Giant as I'd otherwise be (sorry, Mike) because of the strained,
throaty vocals (IMO) of Mr. Minnear.

At the same time, I love vocalists who set other people's teeth on
edge -- for example, I have a couple of albums, including Bill Bruford's
first solo effort, that feature a woman named Annette Peacock. Weird,
Greenwich Villagey vocals that most often elicit raised eyebrows and
comments like "Hmmm, interesting" from friends. I think Les Claypool is
a hoot. I love Mark Sandman's low, syrupy, late-night singing. And Liz
Phair ... well, let's just say I like her voice as much as her, uh,
sweater.

And these are just a few people whom I think have good, distinctive
voices, not necessarily technically good voices. Of course, it really
sends me when I find someone who has both. As I said, that list could go
on and on.

As for the "XTC the Jazz Band" discussion, I'll add this little bit of
shameless self-promotion to the thread, from an interview I did w/Andy
waaaay back in the last century ... hell, in the last millennium:

TB: Have you listened to a lot of jazz, and are you influenced by it?
I've always heard that in your music, and I didn't know whether that was
something that you actively pursue or something that you soaked up when
you were younger.

AP: I did listen to a lot of jazz when I was younger. My father had
bebop records around the house -- Charlie Parker, Oscar Peterson,
basically the straighter side of bebop. Then a friend of mind got me
into the more out-there kind of stuff -- Sun Ra, Albert Ayler and
others, which I liked immensely. And then I sort of blundered into stuff
on my own, like Tony Williams' Lifetime. Their album Emergency is one of
my all-time desert-island disks, I think.

TB: It is a great album.

AP: That is so thrilling, that recording. I don't listen to so much jazz
now, because I tend not to listen to much music now. I think what
happens is, when you don't have the facility to make music, you soak it
up. It's like you eat. And then when you have the facility to make
music, you can then crap out all you've eaten. So I'm probably getting
rid of all the musical stuff that went in me when I was younger.

The rest of the interview can be found, thanks to John Relph, at
http://chalkhills.org/articles/TBAndy980517.html

Shameless self-promotion #2:
With all this talk of Pink Floyd and the Dukes, you'll want to check out
Wes Long's newest Labor of Love at http://www.optimismsflames.com,
where -- among numerous and sundry XTC rarities and oddities that Our
Man Wes has begged, borrowed, and stolen (from Andy and others) --
you'll find the first installments of an audio interview I conducted
with Ian Gregory, aka EIEI Owen, drummer of The Dukes. Pull up a comfy
chair, fire up your favorite MP3 player, and download away!

-Todd

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 19:56:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Bob McKnight <bmcknight@primus.ca>
Subject: Phil Collins [summed up]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0201061930420.809-100000@staffshell.primus.ca>

Early Genesis - Behind the kit and getting a nightly view of Gabriel's
arse = good.

Genesis A.G. - As front man [still looking devilishly Mansonesque]= not
bad.

Genesis - and then there were 3 [ mighty fat wallets]. All stripped down
and ready for the eighties = borderline shite.

Phil [solo] - Su Su Sudio - wot???? = complete shite.

    ---------

An album to be appreciated by the 'hillians :

"Let the Music War Begin"  by The Minus Five.

Seek this one out it has the odd "Pet Sounds" touch [especially in the
harmonies] and is steeped in '60s and '70 pop sensibilities.

In case you are unaware of this band [ or ensemble ?] they are lead by REM
guitarist Peter Buck and Young Fresh Fellows Singer/Guitarist Scott Mc
Caughey and as a bonus you get the new YFF album to boot [which is also
quit good]. It's packaged as a 2cd set by Mammoth. It's a little pricey
but one of the best things that came out of 2001. Check it out!!

Bob from the Hammer.

--
Bob McKnight
Team Manager, Technical Support
Primus Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:31:40 -0500
From: Ben Gott <bgott@rectoryschool.org>
Subject: Policing Phil
Message-ID: <B85E8E61.5CE0%bgott@rectoryschool.org>

Gang,

I just (finally) bought the "Message in a Box" 4-CD Police set and found an
interesting little tidbit in the liner notes (amidst a discussion of the
recording of "Ghost in the Machine"):

"With Nigel Gray off the team, [Andy, Stewart, and Gordo] had asked for a
new producer and, on the recommendation of XTC's Andy Partridge, called in
Hugh Padgham (a young, but experienced, engineer whose first co-production
credit had just appeared on Phil Collins's 'Face Value')."

So does the chronology of Hugh Padgham early '80s production go "Face Value"
--> "Ghost in the Machine" --> "English Settlement"?  There wouldn't have
been much time for him to do much else in there, I'd imagine, although he
has proven to be a very prolific producer since then...

By the way, Stewart Copeland is a damn good drummer, don't you think?

-Ben

------------------------------

End of Chalkhills Digest #8-3
*****************************

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