Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #8-1

          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 8, Number 1

                Wednesday, 2 January 2002


           Seagulls Screaming, Lurk-er, Lurk-er
                       Snared again
                     Re: The pain...
       where we're going in this verdant spiral...
                        Pink Floyd
                    XTC in commercials
                    happy new year...
              brand spanking ;>)New Year...
        Phil Collins, advertising and all the rest
           Might I add my ramblings to the mix?
             Generals and Majors on Letterman
                       Big Country
                    "Commercial" Music
           Jumping out of hiding into Gomorrah
                    Just to remember..
                  Selling Out and Music
                  Phil/Gabriel (no XTC)


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7d (John Relph <>).

Now the son has died, the father can be born.


Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 19:53:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "J. Randles" <>
Subject: Seagulls Screaming, Lurk-er, Lurk-er
Message-ID: <>

I'm coming out of de-lurk for one brief shining
moment, if anyone will hear...

Well said, Steve (Johnson, that is)... on the subject
of commercialism, commercials, commerciality, and
commerce. Or whatever the hell that post was about. ;)

and Kyla, with whom I share many things, mainly:

"a hearty love of both volumes of Apple Venus, many
more of XTC's cds/records and a tad too much of
lurkingabout this list, I suppose."

Speaking of lurking, I'm enjoying Das XTC-Forum
immensely. Almost too much to keep up with, though.
Any thoughts on the Forum?

as well as:
"Speaking of genius, miss George Harrysong immensely."

I can't express much more than that (being a long-time
Hari collector), except a couple things. For once I
feel quite alone in the world.
I miss him, too... as many others do. Although I hear
rumours that he may be knighted posthumously in June.
Perhaps it is "just a rumour", but it would be nice,
although a bit too late, IMO.

and my favorite subject, ;):
"Ever happy to smith those words for ya, I'll close
here by pointingout that it's 'fellate', not
'fallate'.  From 'fellatio',donchaknow..."

and I'm sure we all know the female practicioner of
the verb is "fellatrix", which was my word of the week
back in the household many weeks ago.(This is what you
get when you have too many books on sexual vocabulary
and a roommate who works by educating people on sexual
health... lol) I've forgotten one of the more
'colorful' phrases I chose later... too bad, they make
for interesting conversation starters. ;)

and a big Happy New Year to my fellow 'Hillers, with a
special shout-out to the ones in Atlanta (so proud, so
few, so enviable)... it was a treat meeting you all.
Let's do it again next year. :)

Jennifer *back to lurk-mode*
--Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are
starving to death!


Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 00:29:51 EST
Subject: Snared again
Message-ID: <>

In a message dated 12/31/01 6:48:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
J. D. writes:

> > The song writing is pretty strong. I don't hold the fact that he
> > ripped off the sound of In The Air from Steve Lilywhite/Peter Gabriel and
> > the melting face album.
> I know that I'm going to be one of 50 people to post this, but what the
> heck.
> The drummer on the Peter Gabriel III is none other than Mr. Collins.  So
> essentially, he ripped off himself.

Actually that was my point (although I didn't mention it) Collins didn't
develop the gated snare (or whatever Lilywhite decided to call it) sound. It
came about due to Lilywhite's production. I'm sure that Collins had some
input as well but since Peter Gabriel is usually the big boss when it comes
to PG records I don't doubt that he had a key role as well. It sounds like
something Eno might do.

>From the mouth of Steve Johnson

>>>Point Number Four:  And this will be my last [applause].  Let's not treat
pop songs like Rembrandts (oops, maybe I should say "Renoirs," unless some
pop group is also using that moniker).  No artist is forced to sign away
rights to songs.  If McLennon and McCartney sign away their rights, they are
forever doomed to listen to "Revolution" on McNike ads.  But it's their
choice.  Our choice is whether or not to buy that those shiny, shiny shoes<<

I've decided that even though I disagree with point  4, I like Steve Johnson.
His reasoned, well thought out and articulate points are pretty darn good.
About as good as Dunks earlier comments. Damn, how do I get in that club (and
would I want me in there if I was a member).

Todd responded to a comment that I made describing Breakfast In America as
power pop--

>>Silly me, I thought that the ingredients of power pop included crunchy
and/or chiming guitars and tight, concise arrangements balanced with catchy
melodies and sweet harmony.

Imagine my surprise to discover that the true recipe requires chirpy
electric pianos, precious, reedy vocals and the least-swinging rhythm
section of the rock era.<<

Your welcome. Damn, those melodies must have been too catchy....they've
destroyed what's left of my brain cells.   I guess if rock doesn't sound like
Chuck Berry, it can't be rock. I thought the strict definitions of what was
"rock" or "power pop" were meant to be pushed a bit. By that definition half
of the stuff the Raspberries and Badfinger did wasn't power pop.  I guess
because Badfinger did ballads like Day After Day they aren't a power pop
band.  Same with the Raspberries and the tune Overnight Sensation.  Any label
that's applied is just that--a label. It's not meant to create limitations
just to give a thumb nail description of something.

The best analogy I can think of is Alfred Hitchcock the "master of suspense".
Hitch's films had elements of horror, suspense, mystery and comedy.
Suspense didn't have all those elements when I last checked.. I suppose it's
easier than describing him as the "master of Suspense with a little bit of
wit, mystery, a dash of comedy, a hint of of horror and terror as a chaser."
Any generic label is by it's own definition somewhat limiting and inaccurate.
Same with power pop. Again, I stand by that definition for the band's
Breakfast in America album and some of their other material as well. I don't
buy that "power pop" is what you've described. You've described a breakfast

Oh and the last time I checked chirpy electric pianos and reedy vocals
prevent The Beatles from being described as a "rock band".  Off to the party

Happy New Year All!



Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 00:30:19 -0500
From: "Brian" <>
Subject: Re: The pain...
Message-ID: <007001c19285$672b9660$214e1b3f@brian>


>I was listening to They Might Be Giants' new album, Mink Car, to escape
>the horror of the Times Square bus terminal Muzak system when suddenly
>my headphones cut out for no reason... and then there it was... the
>legendary Muzak Mayor of Simpleton, coming out over the loudspeakers in
>all of its gory...
>Brain... melting...

Hey, I heard "The Mayor of Simpleton" on the '80's Muzak station that they
had playing at work the other day.
It wasn't very loud and I tried to get them to turn it up, but they
wouldn't, so I stood right under a speaker in the ceiling just to listen,
telling the lot of them what they were missing.
They we're unimpressed. Their loss.

Brian... melting...


Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 01:27:15 -0500
From: Virginia Rosenberg <>
Subject: where we're going in this verdant spiral...
Message-ID: <>

Hi Nathan-

Well, guess I should add a few to the pointless list (hmmm- isn't 'pointless
list' a bit redundant?):

How about the hedgerows & front gardens in "Respectable Street"?
Or the man who grew the money tree in "Mayor of Simpleton"?
The weeds getting sickled in "Reign of Blows"?
The moss growing in the churchyard of "In Loving Memory of a Name"?
The meadow, weeping willow & grass of "Ladybird"?

And there are probably more...

It seems like there should be lots more entries from Mummer & Skylarking- I
think of them as being so... organic? pastoral?- something like that... And
I think of "Wonderland" as being green & leafy, since the video is so green
& leafy...

Happy 2002 to all of you.



Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:36:08 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time)
From: "Clifford Smith" <>
Subject: Pink Floyd
Message-ID: <3C58F3E8.000008.72489@cliffo>

Andy Partridge once said that after the departure of Syd Barrett, Pink Floyd
stopped making good music.
How many people agree? I most certainly do not.
Comparing Syd Barrett Pink Floyd and post Ummagumma Floyd is like comparing
chalk to cheese. Both styles are terrific and I enjoy listening to Piper at
the Gates of Dawn and Saucerful of Secrets (even though it was post-Syd, it
still was a Syd PF album) just as much as I enjoy listening to Meddle, Atom
Heart Mother, Dark Side of the Moon, Animals and the Wall.
Here's a few questions for you all:

1. Roger or Dave? Why?

2. Syd or Post Syd? Why?

3. What is your opinion of the two post Roger albums (Momentary lapse of
reason and The Division Bell)?

4. What is your opinion of the Wall Movie?

5. Can you detect Floyd influences in XTC's music? Give examples.



Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 12:12:16 +0100
From: "Mary" <>
Subject: XTC in commercials
Message-ID: <002401c192b5$51544e60$ad921b97@mary>

Hello to all. I've never published here before, as I spend my XTC glomming
on the Italian site or on the official site, where there is a
great forum. But I've been reading this for ages and feel like I must pitch
in on this one. In Italy, "Frivolous Tonight" was the music for the
qVolkswagen Lupo. No, "if" they did an advert, they already are in one. And I
have no problems with that. Just hope they get their royalties.

And one more thing, risking to get flogged by one and all; as a mother of a
four year old who is crazy about Disney's Tarzan, where Phil Collins does
the music, I have to say that it is a great soundtrack.  (He even sings it
in Italian, did the same for French, Spanish and German). The guy was/is a
great percussionist, and sometimes even his pop songs reach levels of

happy new year to everyone.


Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 06:09:59 -0500
From: "Danny Phipps" <>
Subject: happy new year...
Message-ID: <>

happy new year, everyone!

may 2002 be designated as "the year of world peace" and be
filled with lots and lots and lots of xtc-music!!

"do what you will, but harm none..."

/danny phipps

"We are all part of the same soul..."
                        (Billy Sherwood)


Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 11:47:01 -0500
From: Virginia Rosenberg <>
Subject: brand spanking ;>)New Year...
Message-ID: <>

Well I wasn't thinking about it at the time, but managed to ring in the new
year while listening to English Settlement (good music for making Hoppin'
John to- well, good music for almost any occasion, really).

There are many New Year's traditions around the world which are intended to
bring good luck. Obviously, listening to XTC should be a universal
tradition, but in an imperfect world, such is not the case. Anyone care to
share what their local New Year traditions/ foodstuffs are in the interests
of global understanding?

Here in South Carolina, we eat a version of what they call 'peas and rice'
in the Caribbean- called Hoppin' John. Collard greens or some other kind of
green vegetable (speaking of green, growing things) are also traditional. I
hear cabbage- kraut or slaw- is traditional in Wisconsin...

No need to volunteer reports of intoxicating beverage intake- any good
fortune such may bring rarely last s more than a few hours...

Hoping all Hillions have a happy & healthy 2002,


Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:50:38 -0800
From: "Sughosh Varadarajan" <>
Subject: Phil Collins, advertising and all the rest
Message-ID: <003b01c19362$91bac8a0$7a38c5cb@SughoshVaradarajan>

Hello people,

We've had some interesting viewpoints on the quality of Phil Collins'
music, the definition of pop, and the cold calculating minds of the
advertising chappies. So here's my take.

Why don't we leave poor old Phil be? I'll be the first to admit that he's
gone down the drain, especially with 'Dance into the light' and the Disney
soundtrack, but then, which artist has been consistent throughout his
career? Even Dylan did a "Wiggle wiggle", amongst several other similar
embarrassments. So what's the big deal? And if you're really among those
who didn't like any of Phil's work, then, well, as someone pointed out,
probably best to drop it and stick to what you like. I admit, though that I
don't personally have the maturity to do that. With Phil Collins, I can,
but there are so many other artists who seem to wave that red handkerchief
at me......  never mind. I guess I'm just extending an argument that most
have already forgotten about, or are trying to forget.

As for the advertising bit, well, I have to say that it does cheapen a song
to use it to sell frozen pizzas or whatever. And of course we're all way
too sensitive about anyone cheapening the magnificient efforts of
Andy,Colin, the Beatles, the late, great Nick Drake, and whoever else might
be subjected to it. But the fact is, it does help popularise the music in
some way. Maybe not directly, in the sense that no one's really gonna say
"Ooh, that track they used in the pizza jingle is really cool... I must
find out who it's by, and get the CD." But it offers people like you and
me, the XTC fans, the Nick Drake fans, that much more chance of being able
to popularise the music among those we know.

I live in a country where really good Western music is hard to find. We
have a vast musical heritage of our own, and pop and rock account for a
ridiculously small percentage of our huge population. The few who do listen
to English music are more likely victims of fashion than discerning
music-lovers. Hence the stuff that sells most is whatever shows up on MTV
(the same Mariah Carey, Britney Spears etc. that some people on this list
believe shouldn't be called pop). To get anyone of my age group (I'm 24) to
lend an ear to any album that hasn't had a video out is quite an
achievement.  In such a situation, I'll take any excuse I can get to grab
the attention of the people around me. I speak from experience... so many
of my acquaintances know about Cat Stevens only because I told them 'Father
and son' wasn't Boyzone's song, and explained to them how badly they had
screwed up the idea behind the song.

In conclusion, I'd like to say, if XTC songs selling pizza and burgers, or
XTC covers by Britney Spears or Nsync, get my friends a bit more interested
in (what I think is) good music, then so be it!

To all those who miss George Harrison - I'm with you, folks. Here's to the
man who was in one of the greatest rock'n'roll bands, yet so far from being
a rock'n'roll star.

And to Danny Phipps, yes 'Wasp Star' is a lovely album.


  "Some might say they don't believe in Heaven
   Go and tell it to the man who lives in Hell."
    - Noel Gallagher


Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 13:47:18 -0500
From: "Purrsia Kat" <>
Subject: Might I add my ramblings to the mix?
Message-ID: <>

And a fine "howdy-do" to the folks on the 'hill.
First of all, I wanna wish everyone the best in this upcoming palindrome of
a New Year.

That out of the way, I guess I gotta jump into the fray on the Phil Collins
debate, heh heh. I know y'all are prolly sick of hearing about it, so I'll
try to be brief :-p
Well, I still rather fancy some Genesis stuff. I got into Genesis in the
mid-80s when I was 12. I was the only kid my age that dug "old fart" rock,
lol. I still spin "Duke", "Abacab", and "Genesis" with some regularity.
Can't help it, folks. I like what I like. :-)
And I have to admit, I still have Phil's first 3 solo albums lurking in the
bottom of my tape bin. But, hey, ya gotta cut me some slack here...I *was*
12 at the time, and haven't played those tapes since then, lol. I think
Phil's worst solo career crime (well, not considering the recent travesty
that is his solo career),was his take on the Genesis tune, "Behind the
All in all, I still think Phil is one of the best drummers *ever*. His style
is very distinctive and kool, me thinks, even if his overall songwriting
style is akin to moldy cheeze whiz (due to the Holidays, you'll have to
pardon my food comparisons -- all I've been doing the last 2 weeks is
preparing food, eating food, thinking about food, etc etc.)
To recap? Genesis is still kinda nifty. Phil solo never really was good at
all, and I see that now. But to each their own...

I'm not even going to touch the debate on advertising/commercialism, haha.
I'll have enough rotten fruit hurled at me for the Phil Collins comments I
have a feeling...

Well, sorry again for not remembering who mentioned it, but a few digests
ago someone spoke of rediscovering R.E.M.'s Reckoning album....Yes, yes,
that is indeed a fab recording. Bravo to you!

To Sughosh Varadarajan ....Welcome to Chalkhills! I haven't been on the list
long, although I've been officially "into" XTC since I was about 16 (that's
a bit over a decade ago, for those who've been keeping track of how
"ancient" I am, lol). I bought the Waxworks singles collection just because
a friend of mine used to hum "Generals and Majors" all the time, and I've
been hooked ever since.

So I guess I oughta include my list of fave XTC albums. This changes all the
time, so don't go carve this into the side of a mountain or anything, lol.

1. The Big Express
2. English Settlement
3. Skylarking
4. Mummer
5. Wasp Star
6. Go 2
7. Drums and Wires
8. Black Sea
9. Nonsuch
10. Oranges and Lemons
11. AV1
12. White Music

The order of this list is quite striking, given I didn't give The Big
Express or Mummer much of a cursory listen until earlier this year. So I
guess you could say I rediscovered those two, haha.

In response to Chris Vreeland's query about the cover of "Pumpkinhead" on
the Dumb and Dumber soundtrack....that is done by Crash Test Dummies. I
quite fancy the whole soundtrack, although I wish they would have included
XTC performing Pumpkinhead. Ah well.

In closing, I'll leave you with my list of my most-listened-to CDs of 2001.
Bear in mind, I'm stuck in the past, so there won't be too many "new"
releases on here.
No particular order here, btw.

--Reveal - REM
--Document - REM
--Lifes Rich Pageant - REM (I started off last year on a serious REM binge,
and listened to the second 2 cds exclusively for 2 months straight, heehee)
--Scarred But Smarter - Drivin n Cryin
--Wasp Star - XTC (sometimes I just put this in and play it all day.)
--New Day Rising - Husker Du
--Yield - Pearl Jam
--Duke - Genesis
--A Man Called E - E
--Bossanova - Pixies
--Urban Hymns - The Verve
--The Best of I - The Smiths
--The Big Express - XTC
--English Settlement - XTC (this and the preceding album were part of my
end-of-year binge, lol)

That's all I can come up with for now. Sorry about the uber-post, heehee.
Later daze,
Angie Hill


Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 12:31:59 -0700
From: Phil Corless <>
Subject: Generals and Majors on Letterman
Message-ID: <>

Watching Late Show with David Letterman last week.... A comedian named
Eddie Brill came out.... Paul Schaffer and Band played "Generals and
Majors" for Brill's intro.  First time I've ever heard Paul play an XTC song.


Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 12:42:36 -0700
From: Phil Corless <>
Subject: Big Country
Message-ID: <>

I just read that Stuart Adamson, lead singer for Big Country, died on Dec.
16.  Apparently a suicide.  Very sad....

Big Country's debut album remains one of my favorite "perfect from start to
finish" albums.


Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 15:44:34 -0600
From: "Richard" <>
Subject: "Commercial" Music
Message-ID: <009401c1930d$81355ae0$>

(it's a LONG one)


With a few exceptions (Iggy and Nick Drake) most of the songs you are
hearing were already big hits that you naturally like (or can't stand) from
radio exposure. (Although it is quite possible that you were CONDITIONED to
like those songs ...but that's a different subject.)


What do Enya, The Rolling Stones, Miles Davis, Hank Williams, Supertramp,
Smokey Robinson, Boston, Mungo Jerry, Nick Drake, Al Green, The 1910
Fruitgum Company, Iggy and Andy have in common?  They write/wrote songs for
money (or at least with the _intent_ of making money.)  Is there something
definably more sacred about only selling a song as product as opposed to
using a song to sell a product?


For Nick Drake, I believe it actually increased his record sales.  Becki
diGregorio turned me on to Nick Drake a few months before the commercial
came out.  After the commercial I heard a few people talking about it (they
talked about the product to identify the MUSIC). Who can argue with exposure
that brings positive results?


How about artists who have recorded the one "commercial track" to ensure
sales for the rest of their "less than commerical" record?  Is there
exploitation in that sales tactic?  By many measures, yes.  If you bought
10cc's "Original Soundtrack" with the intent on getting 42 minutes of lush
love songs and soft ballads, I have news for you... Life Is A Minestrone!
I'm not saying the rest was bad... but it was distinctly different from "I'm
Not In Love."  It's all about exposure.


How about a song that garners little airplay anymore and the owner is
approached with an offer of money to use the song in a commercial?  The song
was written to make money and when another variant on ways to make that
money is presented, why not?


I do agree with Jason's statement about feeling offended when the original
song is perverted to contain product-relevent lyrics.


What about the actions known as "promotion"?  Tours, signings, visiting
radio stations & talk shows are all about selling more product.  Exposure.


Does it really taint their "art" to accept money (from a secondary source or
otherwise) when their original intent was to satisfy a contract for which
they had received a monetary advance?  Did the artist balk when all the
investment by the record company was recovered and a noticable amount of
money started ending up in their bank accounts?  Was some kind of
sublimation achieved through success?  Nah... it's a business.


You don't actually think that Billy Joel wants to sing "Still Rock-n-Roll To
Me" or that the Stones look forward to riffing on "Satisfaction", do you?
They are doing it for their crowd and the crowd's memories.  With any luck,
those memories are tied to feelgood things and that gives them marketing
potential outside of their original use.  It's similar to having a
cross-over hit on a different genre of radio stations.  I doubt any artist
has said, "Oh shit!  Now they're playing my song on Adult Contemporary
stations too!  What will me Goth friends think?!  My career is ruined!"


There can be backlash.  For instance, I will probably NEVER but a Chevy
truck BECAUSE of the frequency of "Like A Rock" but, again, it is all about
exposure.  That is why Motorola Cellular Phones have sponsored a bicycle
racing team.   Nobody condones drinking-and-driving but Anheuser-Busch
sponsors Nascar racer cars.  Exposure.


At a holiday party a few weeks ago, I was talking with a rather talented
painter.  She asked about my latest ... let's just call them "forms of
expression."  I explained what I had been doing.  Her response was to ask
what my goal was in doing the project and was there a real outlet (i.e., $)?


She is very religious and expressed disappointment in the fact that I wasn't
"...sharing my god-given talent" but her concept of "sharing" included
routines involving purchase orders and invoices.


I playfully querried if she felt that there was anything sacriligeous about
exploiting her "god-given talent" for money.


All this hooey about artistic purity gets annoying.  (suggested reading,
"Mansion On The Hill" by Fred Goodman - it's all about Dylan, Grossman,
Springsteen, Geffen and the improbable blending of bohemia and business)


There are other facets to this issue which include providing songs for movie
or television soundtracks, tour financing, product endorsements in concert
and on recordings (like Mitsubishi Pro Audio and fano Guitars) and the
occasional fact of bettering their recording career (not just their wallet)
with the exposure that these opportunities lend.  In the end, it is a
business regardless of how pure you would like to view your favorite artist.


As it has been said so many times... if you don't like something, don't buy
it.  Advertising is done because it works.  If you say it doesn't work with
you, I simply don't believe you.


Van Gogh had an agent.


Richard "Na-na-na-na. Na-na-na-na. Hey-hey-hey. Good Buy." Pedretti-Allen

p.s. EMI owns the rights to XTC's back catalog and can use it to generate
money in virtually any way they would like (reference: XTC remasters - this
was a request from the Japan distributor, not from XTC, Geffen, EMI or me.)


Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 18:57:41 -0600
From: "Amanda Owens" <>
Subject: Jumping out of hiding into Gomorrah
Message-ID: <>

Ahhhh.....a new year, a new beginning, 365 new ways to screw my life up!
Ahem, but anyhoo.

Just skimming my way out of delurk mode to wish everyone a great big sloppy,
sticky Happy new Year!

Chris Vreeland did sayeth:

>So, how come I didn't know until yesterday that Peter Pumpkinhead was
>in Dumb and Dumber?
>(I have multiple nine-year-olds; we just had Christmas)
>It was a cover version. Whose?

*Smiles devilishly* Who better than this little one to hit on that one for
you? That would be Crash Test Dummies, USED to be my favorite band, (Ask any
oldie on this list, they will share some stories!) however I have lost most
of my respect for them musically. *Don't hit me Ben!* Advice to Brad
Roberts: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Sylvan did sayeth:

>I was listening to They Might Be Giants' new album, Mink Car, to escape
>the horror of the Times Square bus terminal Muzak system when suddenly
>my headphones cut out for no reason... and then there it was... the
>legendary Muzak Mayor of Simpleton, coming out over the loudspeakers in
>all of its gory...
>Brain... melting...

Try hearing that AND Greenman AND King For a Day blasted in muzak form at
the hospital I work at. Although it was interesting to hear the REAL Thanks
For Christmas blaring in a local mall recently.

Lemme shove my 2 pence in on the album ranking front:
1.Oranges & Lemons
2.The Big Express
3.English Settlement
4.Black Sea
6.Drums & Wires
8.Apple Venus
10.Go 2
11.White Music
12.Wasp Star (Sorry about the low ranking on that one, I don't think I need
to go into much detail as to why it wasn't higher up there.)

Aaaaaaaaand on that note it's time to pop back into slight lurk mode whilst
I dive into the bag of British Cadbury treats my sister gave me for
Christmas. (We're talking Flakes, Crunchies, Twirls, Dairy Milk Buttons,
Wispas, Double Deckers, Tasters, Ripples.....I'll shut up now.)

And on one final, completely un-music related note, is anyone on the list a
fan of the sci-fi show Babylon 5? Just curious. I just recently discovered
it, having met two of its most talented cast members, Jason Carter & Robin
Atkin Downes at a convention in September.

Tis all for now,
Amanda C. Owens
XTC song of the day-Jumping in Gomorrah (of course!)
non XTC song of the day-Under the Milky Way-The Church


Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 13:12:51 -0000
Subject: Just to remember..
Message-ID: <>

.. then in 1999 a tv commercial of the new model "Lupo" by
Volksvagen used "Frivolous Tonight" (Yes, no cover, just the
original one)...



Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:19:46 +0100
From: art et affiche <>
Subject: Commerciality
Message-ID: <>

Reading all these posts about ads and music we love, and regarding XTC,
I would... close is pretentious, so let's say enlighten the debate:

In 2000, on the italian television, "Frivolous tonight" has been used
"to sell" a car (la "Lupo" from Wolkswagen I think).

Now, you know.

Do you still love XTC?
Do you feel betrayed?

Personnaly, I just don't care about it....
Hope Colin made some money. And I'm glad for him.



Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:23:48 -0800
From: Pat <>
Subject: Selling Out and Music
Message-ID: <>

At 01:56 PM 12/22/2001 -0800, you wrote:
>The reality in the music business is, to paraphrase a song by
>Tool, that the artists you love sold out long before you ever even heard
>their name. Sorry. Even our lads from XTC.

I'll have to add my 2 rambling cents to that. As a struggling Los Angeles
based musician who puts out a CD pretty much every year on a shoestring
budget, that is.

My music does pretty well- this year I got a #1 bestseller on Amazon's
Indie Alternative Rock chart with my CD "Pat Ortman", and the previous year
my all-MP3 album got to #1 on MP3's rock chart. I bring this up because
there is indeed a lot an indie can do to get the word out. I've really
found a lot of luck with Internet marketing, myself... targeted emails to
people I know would be open to my style of music, a strong web presence,
and encouraging fans to talk about the CD and tell their friends. But you
quickly run into a wall, without commercial radio support and without video
support. I think that XTC themselves are having this problem lately, which
is why I'm thrilled they're embracing the 'net so heavily now.

I joined a service called "Taxi" this year expressly for the reason of
trying to get my music into film and tv, including commercials. So far, no
luck at all... my stuff doesn't appeal to the Taxi people evidently. But
the thing is, even as a staunch indie spirit musician I'd happily have a
song or two of mine used in commercials... any crack in the wall is a
chance, as far as I see it. Any chance to get more people to turn their
heads and say "Hey, what's that? I like that!". Certainly, Moby's the
biggest success out of commercials. Sting's done a few, too. The point is,
I don't think you need to be soft or irrelevant to be in commercials in
this century. I think there's a difference between selling and selling -out.

Pat Ortman


Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:27:54 -0800
From: Pat <>
Subject: Phil/Gabriel (no XTC)
Message-ID: <>

And I know it's probably common knowledge to some of you, but according to
a documentary I saw at a Genesis fan's house, Phil started singing by
doubling Peter's vocal parts in concert because Peter took to wearing
costumes like the giant fruit of the loom man, and couldn't get a
microphone up in there well enough amongst the grapes.

And I always thought their voices had some striking similarities...

Pat Ortman


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