Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #6-69

          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 69

                  Saturday, 8 April 2000


               Andy, Martin, and technology
                  I'll answer you anyway
Record Industry Needs To Embrace Technology: Message to TVT
                        Book Book
RE: Napster meets Waspstar: The truth about XTC and MP3's
                    Launch Party Chat
                 High Fidelity: The Movie
            Is your journey really necassary?
Spector did not "save" the "Get Back" sessions / Weird music redux
                      martin newell
                      Taking a turn
                     Catherine wheel
             Delurking, Napster, and whatnot
                 a science book for Kevin
                      Pet Sound Off
                    Re: Sad, sad Carl
               Re: Francis and LONG fiction


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And I can't defend myself till we turn the lights off.


Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 14:01:11 -0500
From: "Paul Averitt" <>
Subject: Andy, Martin, and technology
Message-ID: <001b01bfa0c3$ae26aba0$59292cd1@louie>

Martin told me last month about that article he wrote about his non-tech
status, and he's rather proud and smug about it. he has no desire to get
into it. he HAS recently aquired an email address (thanks to his quite
intelligent girlfriend) and is starting to get the knack of it, but still
shies away as much as possible.
And Andy's not really "online", but he is very proficient at recording and
sound editing software, which is what he has used for recording for some
time now. He has a digital eight track that he controls through his
Hope that helps.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Visit the doublepluspop website at
and the Volares website, found at
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 12:39:01 -0700
From: Ed Kedzierski <>
Subject: I'll answer you anyway
Message-ID: <>

In 6-66 (ooh, scary, kids!) Jim Smart said:
Which reminds me that Phil Spector is the guy whose high esteem I just don't
get.  What's the big deal here? He seems a strange and unpleasant character,
and his work is crap. ("Captain! Photon torpedos from Quadrant Lovin'
Feeling! Shall we put up the shields??") And the awful work he did with the
Beatles and the ex Beatles (All Things Must Pass is great, but could have
been 12 times better with George Martin, or even my grandmother at the
helm). Brian Wilson worships Phil.  Why?  Wait, don't answer that. I think
we've all had our fill of Phils here for awhile.

I think that regardless of what you think of the end result, or whether you
actually like the music that he produces, Spector was the first "star
producer" the first producer to be famous AS a producer, and to really have
a public image. Also, he was the first to (publicly) have anything
resembling a theory of production in those early days beyond just getting it
down on tape. I admit that I was a much bigger fan of Spector just reading
about him before I actually heard his career-making early work. The idea
that making a record enjoyable to listen to outweighed any "hi-fi" concerns
(and that the idea of "realism" in recording pop music is a load of crap)
was one that I found very appealing. However, the only record that I really
enjoy that he produced (and that can be said to have a "Spector sound") is
probably "Instant Karma" - one case where the famous use of doubled, tripled
and more of the same instrument (what was it, 4 pianos, 2 basses, drum kits
etc., something like that?) drenched in echo really works for me. The other
early Lennon solo stuff is pretty good as far as I'm concerned, though
Lennon famously kept him on a relatively short leash for much of that stuff.
It certainly beats the sterile production of Double Fantasy (an album whose
production has probably disappointed me more than any other by anybody
ever). As far as being a strange and unpleasant character, obviously his
eccentricity is a major part of the whole Spector myth. By now, any band
that would actually still go into a studio with him would have to think "I
wonder if we'll come out of this with any stories about him pulling a gun on
By the way does anyone know the name of a movie from the early to mid 60s
featuring Roddy McDowell as a very obvious Spector-parody svengali-producer
type character (acted weird, wore dark suits & sunglasses)? I saw it on late
night TV some years ago - the songs were terrible, the story moronic, and I
enjoyed it immensely.

Ed K.


Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 13:35:53 -0700
From: "Digitalmaster" <>
Subject: Record Industry Needs To Embrace Technology: Message to TVT
Message-ID: <000b01bfa0d0$debf8b80$0200a8c0@digitalpc>

This is different than my last message.  This is regarding the record
industry, particularly, TVT Records.  One thing that turns music fans off in
my opinion is going to a site and clicking on the "news" section and the
newest news they have is that XTC will be finishing up mixing in January?!

Come on people.  The web is something you have been seeking for decades.
You can deliver instant buzzes to all us consumers and we will spread the
word.  You will benefit from giving us day to day news.  So, you will lose a
little money because you will have to pay someone to do the work, but
really, don't you think that fans deserve the latest news considering we are
the ones paying your salaries?

Plus, we are likely to show more support to the groups.  People will be
excited about the latest news that Andy will be on "Politically Incorrect"
(I would be the first in line!)  Or that XTC will be on some radio station
giving out promo's.  The news will spread on and off line, believe me, I
know.  What I ask is that you put more effort into updating your news.  Sell
some merchandise.  I will buy a damn glowing apple shirt with XTC on it.  In
fact, I will buy 10 of them!

I want to know when XTC will be in the states.  Will they appear on
Letterman or Leno?  Will they be doing radio spots?  This is your chance to
build up our anticipation even more, rather than wasting our time with news
we new about 3-4 months ago.  Thought I am specifically talking about TVT
here, this goes for the whole entertainment industry.

I mean, I went to the Sixth Sense site (Great damn movie you guys!) about a
week ago and it was announcing the release of the movie "in a theater near
you!"  COME ON!!!  GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK!  You have to have some extra
money to hire someone half intelligent to put the latest info on your site.
You must have spent a bunch to make it all fancy .

Though that does not impress most users in my opinion, in fact, animation
sucks on web sites and I will be the first to say it on here.  As a
developer, Flash and Shockwave are great, but as a user, they suck suck
suck!  Totally shit.  Spend more time and money on content, rather than
flashy shit and you will have more visitors and people buying your

That's all folks...

Just chillin in Joe's Garage...



Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 00:36:35 +0200
From: "Mark Strijbos" <>
Subject: Book Book
Message-ID: <>

Dear Chalkers,

> Thanks Mark for posting that songbook.
entirely my pleasure

> I've heard of it, but never had a chance to see it till now.
it can be quite difficult to get; it took me only 15 years !
Another copy was offered here quite recently

> My favorite misprint is listing Andy as the author of Nigel.
Bingo! I knew this would come up here, but it's weird isn't it?
I mean, you'd expect that _someone_ would proofread such a major
production... guess not.

yours in xtc,

Mark S. @ the Little Lighthouse


Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:01:37 -0700
From: "Eric Foster" <>
Subject: RE: Napster meets Waspstar: The truth about XTC and MP3's
Message-ID: <002801bfa0f5$fe56db40$010a0a0a@bluegreengod>

"Digitalmaster" <> Wrote :

>But when it comes to new releases (available as MP3s), that is a whole
>story.  The first week of sales can make or break an artist.

Well, for whatever it is worth, I will state the following : Yes, I found
Wasp Star on Napster. Yes,  I downloaded it. Yes, I made an audio cdr of the
tracks, which I have been listening to compulsively. Will I still purchase a
store-bought copy of Wasp Star when it is released? Most definitely. My only
sin here is impatience! I am in total agreement with you, Digitalmaster. I
do sample MP3s of commercially available artists, to make purchasing
decisions, just as you might listen to a few tracks of a potential purchase
at Borders. But the only MP3s, cdrs or tapes that I collect permanently are
unreleased/obscure/live. It is a matter of principle that I decided upon,
when I started collecting "bootlegs" about thirteen years ago. The only
people who give a care about these obscurities, have probably already
purchased the artist's entire catalog and spent countless dollars to see
them live whenever possible. I know I have. That is why I think artists like
Richard Thompson and Robert Fripp, who are notorious for busting tapers at
their shows, need to reassess that sort of attitude.

I send out a plea to those of you enjoying the album in MP3 format : Buy the
album when it is released. Support a pair of truly gifted and inspiring
musicians, in a world where N'Sync and the Backstreet Boyz makes millions
selling their vapid, utterly disposable hack. XTC's music is worth far more
than their retail value.


Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:10:51 -0700
From: "Wes Hanks" <>
Subject: Launch Party Chat
Message-ID: <000901bfa0ee$ec14a5e0$3cb59fce@default>

Social ones,
The 'club' - xtcenglandsglory,  will host a Wasp Star - AV2 launch
party chat on Wed May 24 at 9 pm eastern, 8 pm central, 7 pm mountain and 6
pm pacific.  Outside the US, apply the appropriate logarithm to calculate
your local time.

Please note that you have to go through a 'painless' registration process to
"join" the club prior to participating in the chat.

Go to: to pull the chocks away from
the wheels.

Wes "I've Changed My Plea To Guilty" Hanks


Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:56:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Rosenberger <>
Subject: High Fidelity: The Movie
Message-ID: <>

Yes even you there in the back.

I just got home from the movies.

Go see the new Movie High Fidelity. NOW!!!

John Cusack is the lead actor.

If this movie doesn't depict your life perfectly then it depicts one of
your friends lives to a "T" and you are going to laugh your fool ass

i mean it. The funniest thing I have seen in years. And it is totally
about people who define themselves by what they listen to music wise.

Sound familiar to anyone...

Trust me. It will be the best movie any of you see in 2000.

Cheers all

God bless us music freaks one and all.

The Mole


Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:33:12 PDT
From: "Duncan Kimball" <>
Subject: Is your journey really necassary?
Message-ID: <>

Tyler sayeth:

>this weeks winner in the 'it makes me hit the page down button'
>Long, boring posts on how brilliant the Beach Boys were.

What's the one thing MORE boring than a "long boring post" about the Beach
Boys? A short boring post from someone who has nothing better to contribute
to the debate than pointless, churlish complaints.

>Add them to my Musical Spinach list. I just don't get 'em.

Life without the Beach Boys? How sad.

>Their fans do seem to have the ability to write hideously long posts in
>their defence, >however. so they may, in their own way, encourage literacy.

Long? I don't think either Harrsion's or my post were overly long - I've
certainly written longer.

FYI, I actually responded to Todd's observations off-list. I posted it to
the list at his suggestion.

Get over it, Tyler.



Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 01:54:23 -0700
From: "Benjamin Adams" <>
Subject: Spector did not "save" the "Get Back" sessions / Weird music redux
Message-ID: <>

Double posting here, eh wot. . . .

From: "Ralph Simpson DeMarco" <>

<<Phil Spector became a sought-after producer because of the "Wall of Sound"
that he perfected in the early '60s which "opened unlimited possibilities
for arrangements and sound construction in rock and pop, and his brilliant
talents imprinted the discs that he produced with an artistic vision that
was much more attributable to him than the talented performers with whom he
worked" (girl groups like the Crystals and the Ronettes to name but a few).
The Beatles were huge fans. Spector raised the bar for sound in rock-n-roll
recordings. He inspired Brian Wilson, and saved the scraped "Get Back"
sessions and spent months pasting together what we no know as "Let it Be".
John Lennon chose him to produce most of his solo albums. The Ramones became
another band to be squeezed into a Spector sound...


The impression that Spector "saved" the "Get Back" sessions is so absolutely
wrong it's not even funny.  Unfortunately, we have John Lennon's famous
quote that Spector took the most unlistenable batch of s***, and made
something listenable out of it, affecting our hindsight.  But when Lennon
said that, he was pretty much at his most violently anti-Beatles. and much
of what he said he later contradicted.  So his opinion -- though he helped
make the music -- cannot be trusted.

The "Martin mix" of the GET BACK album has been available for years in a
pristine CD bootleg, and one listen shows that it would have been a
perfectly valid version of the material for relase.  Please note that I'm
NOT saying it's BETTER than Spector's version, but that if it had been
released in the George Martin mix, it would likely be viewed just as
positively as the Spector version, and be much less controversial to boot.

As a sideline, it's no surprise that LET IT BE is Brian Wilson's favorite
Beatles album; after all, it has the Phil Spector production.  = )


From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <>

>Well.  I kept my mouth shut about favorite bands -- thereby losing one of my
>best topics of conversation -- but it was all moot anyway.  The blind date
>and I didn't hit it off.
>There's no way I'll ever even consider following this advice again.  My
>ex-wife was into off-beat music, which is how we met . . . and we're still
>friendly, and we STILL talk music.  And whoever I hook up with next had
>better be "weird" about music too.  = )
>Benjamin Adams

 <<I can see by your short list your taste is very similar to mine(damn
straight, we're both on this list, aren't we?), so that's not the problem,
obviously. I don't know if this helps, but you didn't hit it off with your
blind date because you didn't hit it off. Music had nothing to do with it.
My wife and I share very little common taste in music, we unite at the more
poppy end of my taste(Blondie, B-52's, Beach Boys, Talking Heads),
otherwise she's big on The Carpenters, Air Supply, Barry Manilow, etc.
Before you express pity and sympathy, when we first met, I was smitten with
her from the getgo, I was one gone cat before I knew a single thing about
her taste in music, and by the time I knew it I didn't care. I like what I
like and she likes what she likes, we needle each other about it, but we
share basic common values and ethics, and that's what's most important.
It's all just notes anyway. There's people I know in my town who share the
same taste in music as me and I can't stand them as people, I can't stand
being around them.
  If you're just dating it can be pretty cool to like the same music, but
if you're going to be settling down(and you shouldn't be in a hurry to
unless you want to)the big picture is more important. Be yourself; ask her
what she likes and tailor your choice of music to her taste at first. If
her taste is more poppy, give her a mix tape with the likes of, say "King
For A Day," "Wrapped In Gry," "I'd Like That," and other gorgeous and
commercial sounding stuff. Once she gets to know you better, you can try
out the weirder stuff on her. Worked for me.>>

Christopher, I appreciate this, and I agree with your points -- this is
pretty much how I always planned on handling things anyway.  Evidently my
friend's wife thought some comp minidiscs I had made for them were kinda
trippy.  So at her urging they had this talk with me prior to the blind
date, because she turned out to be kinda white trashy, which was assiduously
hidden from me before I met her.  So they wanted me to not say I liked the
Cure and Robyn Hitchcock to this girl who they had told not to tell me that
she liked Shania Twain and Tim McGraw.  (Ack, my syntax is horible, but I
hope you get the point.)  It's really fairly hysterical when I think about
it.  The date and I just didn't hit it off.  = )  We didn't talk about music
at all.

Look, what I dream of is how things used to be in the '80's.  (Ha ha, but
this is true.)  I was younger, in high school and then college, and it was
so much easier to hook up with a girl who shared your musical tastes.  Now
the venues for such a thing have pretty much vanished.  I now have a
pipedream of somehow stumbling onto my perfect semi-Gothic punk rock woman
in her early '30's, but most of 'em have been snapped up the same way I
snapped up my ex-wife.  = )

But ultimately it's moot, because right now I'm enjoying my bachelordom
anyway.  But someday hopefully I'll be bouncing a baby on my knee to the
tune of "The Mayor of Simpleton"!

Anyway, I just thought the original post was a funny anecdote, and a good
way to break the ice here.

Benjamin Adams


Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:55:24 +0100
From: "chris browning" <>
Subject: martin newell
Message-ID: <001901bfa142$3b2a3ac0$890f883e@pbncomputer>


to abate the frustration of being so damn close to wasp star, but being so
damn far as well, i needed a quick xtc-esque fix to fill in this long, long
month. so i ordered "the greatest living englishman" from amazon after
hearing continually good things round these parts about it.

and you're not wrong. *amazing* stuff. should more than keep me satisfied
til wasp star is with us.

one thing though, maybe it's because it's after the event, but am i the only
one to hear proto-apple venus in the andy partridge string arrangement for
"before the hurricane"? certainly seems very similar to me.

anway, i'm off




Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 08:32:08 -0400
From: "Todd and Jennifer Bernhardt" <>
Subject: Taking a turn
Message-ID: <>


>From #6-67:
> Cause it's Buzzcity talking.

John, as usual, comes up w/another great quote. Not only did I laugh at the
pun, but it got me thinking that one of the things I like about Chalkhills,
and the digest format, is that *everybody* gets their turn (no matter how
wrong their opinion may be!). Talk about a democracy.

Wes, who also made a Wasp Star mess in the same issue, said:
> But I will not sit still for someone attempting to coat the thick luster
of Pet Sounds with gray primer. When my daughter was born, I had been at the
hospital for a couple of days, the time came for me to return home to shower
and shave (basically clean myself up because I was so mental it appeared as
if I were the one who'd just given birth, I WAS A WRECK!) When I arrived
home, after showering, I poured myself a tall glass of Whitbread (an
exceptional English ale) and sat down in the middle of my living room, took
a deep breath and attempted to fathom what the future held for this new
I had little time, and being that music is at least 75% of my so called
life, I decided that this situation demanded that I listen to ONE perfect
song.  But which one?  The answer was simple, and the song fit my emotional
state like a pill fit in Elvis' mouth.  The song was "God Only Knows."  Pet
Sounds is pure magic.<

I know what you mean, my friend, though my choices were a bit different: I
pulled a bottle of Stoli out of the freezer, poured it into a small glass
over a  bit of ice and a twist of lemon, and popped "Garden of Earthly
Delights" into the CD player, and sat back to ponder the future of me and my

Jayne Myrone wondered why the anti-Christians didn't figure out the
> "Don't torture the Christians, just behead them.  It's quicker
> and it saves having to get more recruits for the army."

Luckily, in this whole battle-of-Good-and-Evil thing, sometimes the
proponents of Evil are particularly dim when it comes to doing away with the
good guys. Just watch any Batman episode, and you'll see what I mean.



Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 23:17:41 EDT
Subject: Catherine wheel
Message-ID: <>

In a message dated 4/6/0 2:09:00 PM, Jim Smart wrote:

<<...Catherine's Wheel is. The consensus so far is that it is a word
for a spinning wheel type of....*Firework* ...I have this shady
feeling that even naming a pinwheel firecracker got its name (well, in
the UK and Australia and NZ, apparently) from something else, like
mythology or the Bible (well, those are the same thing, I know). Is it
like a Jacob's ladder, or something from a story? Who was Catherine,

Catherine was St. Catherine of Alexandria. The firework was named
after the famed torture device which was used to torture her.

A Crack The Sky quote? I have Animal Notes (I think that's the name)
on LP and another album on cassette (I don't know the name but it has
a song called "Ten Grand" or something like that) from aeons ago. I
haven't listened to either of them for years, but I used to like them
a lot. Where were they from? I was guessing Canada. Were they ever
popular anywhere? Ever heard of Glass Moon? Mr. Wizard?


Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 23:23:55 -0400
From: Keith Hanlon <>
Subject: Delurking, Napster, and whatnot
Message-ID: <>

I don't think I posted anything to Chalkhills since the last album came
out. Hello everyone, hope all is well on the Hill.

I managed to get all the tracks off of Napster. I love the album. I
actually liked "Stupidly Happy." I hated the demo too. Let me just say that
the MP3 files floating around are badly encoded: 96kbps (the standard being
128, and most folks prefer 160/192 kbps) and there are lots of digital
clicks and noises.

To the Napster nay-sayers (particularly Harrison): Mp3, Napster, and
everything else that technology has given us can be a very good thing. I'm
tired of artists getting screwed by record companies. I know it seems as
though the artist is getting screwed by MP3, but this is indeed a new era
for music distribution. Most likely, the RIAA will gain control of the
matter, but I'm hoping the artists gain control first. Music as a commodity
has always bothered me. True, I'm an avid collector, but then I think,
"what price can you put on creativity?" Perhaps artists need to find a
different way to generate income (many artists, although not XTC, make more
money from performance and merchandise than they do from record sales). I'm
interested to see how this will shake out.

With that said, I find it interesting that there's some much to-do about
the availability of MP3 files on Napster. We're all going to buy the
fucking album, right? How many of you MP3-phobes acquired Andy or Colin's
demos over the last 5 years?

You know what pisses me off? The fact that right now, as I am typing this,
there is a promo copy of "Wasp Star" on Ebay going for $103.61. Don't
believe me? Check out

Which is worse? Which is excusable? Probably neither. The person laying
down the cash for the promo is probably a collector... a completist. That
person will buy the record when it comes out next month. The person who
downloads the (badly encoded) MP3 file is a fan... someone who knows what
they're looking for, and will most likely buy the album upon release.

I'm babbling, but you get the idea. There is so much gray area on this
debate that anyone with an extreme point of view probably hasn't thought it

Let me close by saying that "You and the Clouds" rules!!!!!

Orchestraville: Dark, twisted pop music


Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:38:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tyler Hewitt <>
Subject: a science book for Kevin
Message-ID: <>

I reccomend
Godel, Escher, Bach
by Douglas R.Hofstadter.


Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 23:17:58 EDT
Subject: Pet Sound Off
Message-ID: <>

I would like to thank Hbsherwood for a very insightful analysis of Pet
Sounds and "God Only Knows". Although I've always found Pet Sounds to be a
major disappointment, I do think that his was a good argument for it. I
brought out the CD and gave it another listen. I'm liking it better than
the last time I listened to it. Last time it was in the car. Today it is
through headphones.  I wish the recording production was better and, as
you stated, Freak Out did come out four months later, the technology was
there to make a better recording. Les Paul was making better recordings
too, and a lot earlier than either of these albums. I have a hard time
getting past the overloaded drums, bass and piano. "God Only Knows" is
still a great song, if not a great recording. The whole hook from Archie
Bell and the Drells' "Tighten Up" lays right in the middle of "I Know
There's An Answer". It is an uneven album with a lot of great ideas
between choppy editing and nonsensical sound effects (plus a stupid cover
photo and title), but I do have to give it credit for being an innovative
album for all of your reasons. God help me, though, I'm addicted to sound
production. Keep up this kind of intellectual and music theoretical
discussion, and I'll read every one of my bi-hourly, or so it seems,
Chalkhills newsletter even if it isn't directly about XTC.


Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 09:25:39 -0400
From: "Brian" <>
Subject: Re: Sad, sad Carl
Message-ID: <007c01bfa227$1bd2fe60$ebe49cd1@Brian>


You really are very, very sad.
I'm glad that you dislike Wasp Star for the simple reason that you are
selfish and don't respect XTC enough to contact to alert them
to copyright infringement (which is something that they ask of everyone to

Waitaminnit... maybe I'm missing something here, but why does Napster need
to be told by anyone that they are involved in copyright infringment?
Unless this Napster bunch live in a hole in the ground (and with net
presence I doubt it), they are fully aware of such matters, especially if
they ASK people to tell them if they are doing so... but the whole thing
sounds kind of dumb.

Pick on Carl maybe, but don't drag up this Napster nonsense to do it.

-Brian Matthews


Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 09:30:18 -0400
From: "Brian" <>
Subject: Re: Francis and LONG fiction
Message-ID: <008001bfa227$c06daa60$ebe49cd1@Brian>


>I spoke of TMW Murdered Love and said:  As the song goes into its middle
eight Andy screams "IT'S THE MIDDLE OF THE SONG!"
Francis took exception to this, saying:
Gosh, thanks for ruining the surprise for the rest of us.
Perhaps Francis is right here....I promise to wait until everyone on the
list has listened to WASP STAR at least 5 times before I post any more info
on the disc.  Please everyone, let me know when it's safe to post!
Uhhhh, but if I disappointed anyone, I do apologize.  I'm not attempting to
spoil any of the fun....just to release some of my joy.  Sorry folks.  I'm
just elated at the moment.<

I was also one of the ones who complained.
Your above commentary notwithstanding, you've blown it for a few of us here,
I'm sure..

I ask of everyone - SHUT UP about the new album until it's released.

-Brian Matthews


Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 11:36:27 EDT
From: "garret harkawik" <>
Subject: b-sides
Message-ID: <>

>Which brings me to my next topic: My own Personal 'Wasp Star'. Since I am
>one of the 'dissapointed' here, I've come up with a song list I'd DIE to
>see as an XTC album-
>7.Down A Peg
>8.Living In A Haunted Heart

Weren't these two songs already released as b-sides on some orange and
leamons singles?


End of Chalkhills Digest #6-69

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