Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #6-67

          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 67

                   Friday, 7 April 2000


                Thanks Guys Oh so much!!!
                      Let it all out
                      Sad, sad Carl
       Big Takeover, liking music again & the Kinks
                All over but the shouting
                 Francis and LONG fiction
   And now for something completely different, Homestar
                        PET SOUNDS
                     Taking a Napster
            St Catherine & her wheels of fire
                    this week's winner
              The Man Who Murdered WASP STAR
           I Done Got Stung By A Dang Ole Wasp
  Napster meets Waspstar: The truth about XTC and MP3's
                        Wasp Star


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Cause it's Buzzcity talking.


Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 15:47:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Molly Fanton <>
Subject: Thanks Guys Oh so much!!!
Message-ID: <>

I just got an e-mail telling me that some of you did the listening
party last night WITHOUT ME.  Why?  Couldn't you wait until next week?
I just forgot, and that made me really ticked off.  I spent my money
and got The Dukes just for this party, and NOW you go behind my back
and do it anyway.  I won't watch TV on Wednesdays ever again or I
might just forget the pary.  I guess we'll have to do Skylarking now,
and I'll just give away my Dukes album.  Sorry for sounding like a
Spoiled Sport, but I was the one who organized these parties, and I
like being there.  Thanks a whole bunch guys.

Next week, I guess we'll do Skylarking.  It's the same time.  Now I
have to go and change my web site all over again.  It's at the same
time, and I won't even put on the TV then.

Molly, who knows she shouldn't feel and act this way, but hey

Molly's Pages


Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:38:39 -0700
From: Ed Kedzierski <>
Subject: Let it all out
Message-ID: <>

Just wanted to say, I'm delighted (can I say "chuffed"?) by the way people
have taken to the "overrated/sacred cows" thing (and of course the support
on the "album" issue). I was beginning to wonder if I'd ever come up with
something that would get a good debate going. Lest anyone think that the
whole exercise is mean-spirited or negative, I think it's more a matter of
letting out pent-up resentment. I know that my failure to enjoy "Exile" to
the degree that its reputation seemed to demand just made me more and more
frustrated the longer its standing in the pantheon remained undisputed.
Really enjoyed reading about what others had gotten tired of hearing praised
to the stars over the years, even if one or two of my own dearly-held faves
came in for a downdgrade, but isn't that's what it's all about? Especially
great how rational and flame-free the whole thing has been.
Just a few comments on some of the things that have come up on this topic:

1.	Kevin, I wouldn't totally write off the Stones whole career just
yet. (also have to say that I'd never include Santana and Chicago in a list
of greats along with the Beatles, Kinks, etc, but to each his own...) Check
out "Satanic Majesties Request", maybe "Aftermath" or anything from when
Brian Jones was still alive, with the exception of the
overly-blues-cover-heavy first album or two. Try a compilation from the mid
to late sixties period, especially anything that includes "Dandelion" "We
Love You", etc. (the singles from their too-brief psychedelic period that
aren't on "Majesties") For me, "Exile" (as well as being overrated on its
own) also marks the point in time where the Stones begin to lose their
appeal for me (having lost the tension-between-rivals when the Beatles split
perhaps?). The fact that a lot of critics and fans mark this period as their
peak (when people started seriously using the term "world's greatest rock n'
roll band" in reference to them, and when they started taking the idea too
seriously as well), and tends to be where many overplayed radio hits come
from, has been a source of frustration. I'm not saying that Jones made the
band, but even if it's a coincidence, their best stuff happened while he was
still there. Also "More Hot Rocks" is better than "Hot Rocks"; it includes
the more "psychedelic" singles, and a smattering of the more tolerable
blues-cover stuff. And I'd rather hear "We Love You" than that wanky live
"Midnight Rambler" any day of the week. There is no way in hell that I would
pay money to see them as they are now. I really get the impression that the
only reason they still crank out albums is "well, we're Mick and Keith -
therefore we must continue to produce Stones product - besides we get paid
big bucks". There are plenty of older musicians who continue to produce
great stuff for the right reasons, but the Stones are not among them.
2.	Pearl Jam. I've got into more arguments over these twits, especially
with (now ex-) girlfriends (no, we split up for other reasons). Can't stand
them. At all. Eddie Vedder's voice is almost everything I dislike in a
singing style. (and Jon Anderson is everything else I dislike in a singing
3.	Grateful Dead. Couldn't stand them for years, finally was forced to
build up a tolerance as some of my best friends became deadheads, and I
lived with them in hippy-houses (sorry, hippie-houses) off and on at various
points. Just didn't have the energy to sustain the role of being "Mr. Harsh
Guy Who Bitches About the Music all the Time", and finally got one friend to
do a comp tape with a strict rule of "NO NOODLY JAM CRAP!" He had a hard
time of it, especially as I said that yes, edits were mandatory if he
thought that I might like the "proper song" part of something that contained
noodly jam crap. So I learned to get used to it, but I'm not likely to put
anything of theirs on when by myself... My insistence on preferring British
psychedelia over American despite my friends' attempts to convert me took a
while to just be accepted as the way things were...
4.	Syd Barret Pink Floyd. My idea comes back to bite me on the ass!
Sorry, but that early stuff is still their best, and Syd Barret (including
the solo stuff) can't be rated highly enough. Still I'll take what's coming
to me for putting down the dearly loved faves of others...
5.	Peter Green Fleetwood Mac. Never heard it. I've known for years
about the evolution of this band, how it's not all "Rumours" stuff like your
average rube thinks, etc., but I've got a dirty little secret... Purist
blues rock is one critics-darling genre that has never really appealed to
me. Whether fair or not, I always identified PGFM with that whole vector of
Brit blues rock that includes John Mayal, Spencer Davis, early purist
Yardbirds, etc., and has just never held all that much appeal for me. When
someone replied to this(sorry, but there were so many digests for a while
there it's too much work to go fishing for exact sources) to the effect of
"ask any blues rock guitarist who his influences are, he'll say Peter
Green", my response is basically "ask me who I'm least influenced by, and
I'l say blues rock guitarists". (note: I'm not a musician, so I don't mean
influence in that sense)
6.	Lou Reed. Complaining that Lou Reed is not a good singer is like
complaining that your cat can't fly. Who cares? If I wanted to hear
technically proficient voices all the time, I'd become an opera buff. He's
had a dud album or two, but don't write off his whole career.
7.	I remove myself from all arguments regarding the Beach Boys and
Brian Wilson. Why? Another dirty little secret: despite having known for
years (whether through critics or people whose opinions I respect) about
their supposed greatness, I've never actually heard the legendary Pet
Sounds/Smiley Smile/make your own version of what "Smile" shouldawouldabeen
out of boxed set stuff/etc. material that everyone is talking about. Maybe
someday, but I'll need to be hanging out with someone who'll play it to me
before I buy it. No offence to devotees of this stuff, I just haven't got to
it yet.
8.	The Doors. Anyone who knows me from "real life" would think that I'd
jump at this chance, but I actually find that I've finally run out of
Doors-slagging energy. Putting the Doors down just to get in big yelling
arm-waving arguments with devoted Doors/Jim fans used to be one of my
favourite sports, but I just don't have the passion for it that I used to. I
started off having no problem with them until I was subjected to an
over-insistent "hey listen to this" session by an obsessive Doors fan. How
many times have we all been turned off a band by such an incident? How many
of us have turned someone off XTC by being over-eager? "This next one's
great, you HAVE to listen! Pretty great, huh? Huh?" etc... One of the low
points (and major turn-offs) was, funnily enough, that damn "petition the
lord with prayer" thing. Why he thought I'd like that, I'll never know. Feh!
(actually even before this, I remember seeing "American Prayer" in the store
and thinking "there's an album that I will never buy as long as I live.")
Their turgid version of "Gloria" did nothing to win me over, either.
Favourite moments from my Doors-slagging career include: pissing a bunch of
friends off by laughing through all the "poetry-reciting/vision sequences"
of the Doors movie, the look on one guy's face when I said "Yeah, yeah, Jim
Morrison, the great grunting shirtless American poet of a generation,
whatever...", and the look on another guy's face when I suggested that if
Jim were alive today he'd be in Vegas singing "Touch Me" with his gut
hanging out.
9.	Replacements and Big Star. Much like the guy who said something  to
the effect of "people whose opinions I respect love these guys, but it just
never clicked for me", I've had people just be stunned to learn that I was
into more or less "alternative" stuff in the 80s & that I have a sweet tooth
for guitar pop but just never got into the Replacements. I'd always hear
that their stuff was hooky & fun, I'd try playing some & it would just sound
like sludge. Maybe they were just too drunk. Mind you, I haven't entirely
closed the door on them, & I'm still willing to be converted by a fan who
wants to play me stuff (just don't maintain eye contact the whole time while
going "See? See?"). Same goes for Big Star.
10.	Not to pick scabs, but I do not consider listening to the music of
Phil Collins to be a pleasurable experience. At all. And yes, I had a friend
who had good taste (loaned me some early XTC in high school before I had any
of my own) who bought Face Value when it first came out. We did have this
ongoing argument though: he actually preferred PC's cover of "Tomorrow Never
Knows" because he found the backwards tape effects in the original
"annoying" (!) Picture me with a red face and steam coming out of my ears...
11.	Peter Gabriel era Genesis (aka "proper" or "good" Genesis). Never
heard it. Just was never in a "proggy" enough circle to be exposed to it
before Mr. Yuck took over, and have never gotten around to checking it out.
Maybe I'll still check it out at some point, until then I'll just take
people's word for it that you can't judge the early stuff by the
Collins-dominated later hit crap.
12.	Nirvana. Well, when I first heard "Nevermind" I though it was a
listenable enough pop album, but since then I've come (fairly or not) to
regard them as "the band that ruined everything". Is that a snotty and
elitist thing to say, does it seem like I'm saying that my little
alternative scene was ruined when they let all the riff-raff in? But that's
an argument for another time, and perhaps another place (mind you, that
whole breakthrough when "alternative" crossed over to the mainstream: mostly
1992. Last XTC album before a 7-year silence: 1992. Hmm...) I do find Foo
Fighters to be tolerable-enough guitar pop, though, even if I haven't been
bothered to actually purchase anything of theirs.
13.	Zappa. I like him. If nothing else, check out "We're Only In It For
The Money" - full of humour and mercifully free of extended jamming (which I
do tend to skip over on much of his other stuff). Do you see a pattern here?
Yes, I have very little patience for jamming instrumental-virtuoso wankery.
It's really what's kept me away from things like prog. If I want to hear
something instrumental played by experts, I'll put on some jazz or classical
(NEVER fusion!). Virtuoso jamming + rock instruments = wank.
14.	Techno. I used to like a lot of proto-techo and industrial type
stuff, when it was still organized into pieces that resembled actual songs.
No patience for the "let's just leave the drum machine and sequencer running
on the same program for 45 minutes and drop in a sample here and there"
stuff that seems to typify techno these days, though. No doubt, there are
exceptions, but not anything that gets played very often, unfortunately.

Well, sorry this was so damned long, & I hope that I haven't overly pissed
off those of you who actually made it through the whole thing. Did feel very
good to get out of my system though, and I hope that others have felt the
same about their own choices. Maybe soon I'll mention a few things that
deserve their high placement, and various underrated or unjustly forgotten
bands/albums (when you're talking underrated, what could be a better place
than an XTC list?).

Ed K.


Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:03:47 -0700
From: Richard Pedretti-Allen <>
Subject: Sad, sad Carl
Message-ID: <l0313030db512d4e19c56@[]>


You really are very, very sad.

I'm glad that you dislike Wasp Star for the simple reason that you are
selfish and don't respect XTC enough to contact to alert them
to copyright infringement (which is something that they ask of everyone to

Beyond that, you clearly don't understand that there is a NEED for XTC to
have a hit record.  I think they achieved what they set out to do.

While you are entitled to your opinion of the music, your sense of decency
(or lack thereof) will not be missed.

Goodbye Carlosaurus.

Richard "Make mine the biggest pouch!" Pedretti-Allen


Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:21:32 -0700
From: Ed Kedzierski <>
Subject: Big Takeover, liking music again & the Kinks
Message-ID: <>

Back in 6-61 (digests coming too fast to respond to anything in a timely
fashion) Herne reccomended the Big Takeover. I have to totally agree: I
haven't enjoyed a music publication this much in years. Discovered it,
naturally enough, with the big Andy & Colin interview they did last year.
Actually the whole thing was part of a process that rekindled my almost-dead
interest in music. Towards the end of 1998, I just didn't care; none of my
close friends were really into anything new & exciting (my hippy friends
listened to Dead, Phish, some reggae, etc. my girlfriend was into jazz & the
occasional bit of really dirgy stuff), I wasn't really going out
much, I really felt like the "scene" that I'd been a part of had died,
there's hardly any decent radio in this town (the university station's too
low powered & I only really bother with radio in the car). Basically all my
channels for exposure to new and interesting music had dried up. Sure, maybe
I was lazy, I could have investigated, discovered, made myself new channels.
But I didn't, and felt totally discouraged about getting enthusiastic about
music ever again. The only fun I had with music was the old "buy crappy
stuff to laugh ironically at it" kind of thing (which I know a lot of people
frown on; wasn't there a thread on that some time ago?) Finally got sick of
that, and really began to yearn for some honest musical enjoyment. Wondering
"now who would I buy an album by, totally unheard, just because of who it
is?" resulted in the answer "XTC! Shouldn't there be something new by now?"
A web search brought me chalkhills, and the rest is in the big post I made
when I first de-lurked. Months later, that issue of the Big Takeover had me
looking at the rest of the magazine going "I don't believe it! This thing is
full of reviews of stuff that actually sound like I might enjoy listening
to!" (I'd grown used to the typical mainstream record review that leaves you
thinking "why does everything in the entire world of music have to suck so
much these days?".) So, with that, and the reccomendations here on
Chalkhills, my list of "to buy" albums actually exists again. It was a sad,
sad time, folks.

In reference to "Kinks essentials" lists, I just want to say:
1 yes, Kronikles. Get, get, good, good.
2 People are leaving off Face to Face and Arthur! For shame. Either one can
easily replace "lola", in my opinion.

The list should be: Face to Face, Something Else, Village Green, Arthur,
sometimes "Muswell Hillbillies"
(eat your spinach, you rotten children!)

Ed K.


Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:40:34 EDT
Subject: All over but the shouting
Message-ID: <>

In a message dated 4/6/00 9:34:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
(Moore's Code)writes:



Mmmmmmmmmmm... a bit.


Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:46:17 EDT
Subject: Francis and LONG fiction
Message-ID: <>

Day Trippers:

I spoke of TMW Murdered Love and said:  As the song goes into its middle
eight Andy screams "IT'S THE MIDDLE OF THE SONG!"

Francis took exception to this, saying:
Gosh, thanks for ruining the surprise for the rest of us.

Perhaps Francis is right here....I promise to wait until everyone on the list
has listened to WASP STAR at least 5 times before I post any more info on the
disc.  Please everyone, let me know when it's safe to post!

Uhhhh, but if I disappointed anyone, I do apologize.  I'm not attempting to
spoil any of the fun....just to release some of my joy.  Sorry folks.  I'm
just elated at the moment.

NOW...a little fictional drama from the Long household:

The scene opens with my wife, Leslie, entering the room and eyeing me:

LESLIE:  "What the that what I think it is?"

ME:  "Uh, I'm afraid it is"

LESLIE:  "Why? I mean, there's just so much of it.  What happened here?"

ME:  "I, uh, listened to the last three songs on WASP STAR in sequence"

LESLIE:  "And that was enough to make you (pause)"

ME: "Uh, yes."

LESLIE: "I just don't understand you sometimes"

ME:  "Uh, Les?  Would you mind getting me a towel?"

LESLIE: (silently obtains a towel and hands it to me, saying) "Here"

ME: "Uh, we got anything bigger than that beach towel?"



Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:44:57 -0500
From: maggie jungwirth <>
Subject: And now for something completely different, Homestar
Message-ID: <v04003a04b512eacf5177@[]>

I was thinking back during the Wasp Star title discussion, you know how it
was mentioned that they named it "Wasp Star" to *distance* it from Apple
Venus 1, because maybe some radio stations thought AV1 was too orchestral,
and they might not be interested in more of the same, a.k.a. Apple Venus 2,
that they should call it something else - so but if you think of that then
why was there enough demand to warrant Homespun, and if it was successful
(!?) enough to have this demo of it released, then why would TVT (?) not
want to associate it with the first half?

under mats of flower lava


Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:03:40 EDT
Message-ID: <>

Dear Disappointed:

Todd Bernhardt sayeth:
"As for killing off sacred cows, IMO you can't do much better than "Pet
Sounds." I bought it about two years ago because so many artists I like have
cited it as an influence. I listened to it. A lot. I *tried* to like it --
really, I did. But I didn't. I ended up giving it to my brother, who's a fan."

Okay, I not only sat still for the "Down With The Stones" hour, I dug down
deep in the muck, picked up some crap and helped hurl it at Mick & Co.  But I
will not sit still for someone attempting to coat the thick luster of Pet
Sounds with gray primer.  When my daughter was born, I had been at the
hospital for a couple of days, the time came for me to return home to shower
and shave (basically clean myself up because I was so mental it appeared as
if I were the one who'd just given birth, I WAS A WRECK!) When I arrived
home, after showering, I poured myself a tall glass of Whitbread (an
exceptional English ale) and sat down in the middle of my living room, took a
deep breath and attempted to fathom what the future held for this new father.
 I had little time, and being that music is at least 75% of my so called
life, I decided that this situation demanded that I listen to ONE perfect
song.  But which one?  The answer was simple, and the song fit my emotional
state like a pill fit in Elvis' mouth.  The song was "God Only Knows."  Pet
Sounds is pure magic.

Optimsim's Flames, Home of much XTCrap:



Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 21:52:46 -0400
Subject: Taking a Napster
Message-ID: <00d601bfa033$fa0d11c0$acfda4d8@default>

Harrison insisted:
> But I have to insist that announcing an unreleased album's availability on
> Napster is far, far over that line, and any future "announcements" of this
> sort should be summarily deleted before publication.

Actually, announcing an album availability on Napster is kind of moot, since
almost any album will be available on Napster at some point, if you are
logged on in the same group as another person who has it, which there's no
guarantee of.

I use Napster obsessively, but I still disapprove of it in some ways.  I'm
sure there are plenty of users like me who basically use it to track down
demos, live bootlegs, and out-of-print b-sides, but I fall into the Aimee
Mann camp when it comes to her sentiment, "Artists should get paid for their
work."  It's a dilemma.  So I just have to download rare tracks like crazy
just in case the program gets outlawed or something.

Meanwhile, if you haven't taken Vee Tube up on his offer to let you all hear
the Kinks' "Did Ya" EP, man, you people are missing out.  It's their best
late period work, I think; better than everything after "Give the People
What They Want" except maybe "Come Dancing".  "Did Ya" and "Look Through
Every Doorway" should be on their greatest hits CD.  How the hell did this
get lost in the cracks?

-- Francis

"Even though it's nearing torture, I've got my routine."
   -- Aimee Mann


Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 02:56:49 +0000
From: Jayne Myrone <>
Subject: St Catherine & her wheels of fire
Message-ID: <>

Not sure if this XTC-ish or not, but Jim asked about Catherine wheels.

Catherine is St Catherine of Alexandria who probably didn't exist.  Her
feast day is 25th November.  "But what has this to do with fireworks" I
hear you cry impatiently.  Be peaceful all will be revealed.  Catherine was
a high born (it sez here), learned and beautiful maiden of Alexandria, who
publicly protested to the emperor Maxentius, against the worship of idols.
Confronted by 50 philosophers (they must have cleared out the pubs), she
demolished their arguments, and they were burnt alive

for their failure to answer her.  She refused to deny her Christian faith
and marry the emperor.  In her cell she was fed by a dove (please note that
she didn't eat the said dove) and Christ appeared to her in a vision.  An
attempt was made to break her on a spiked wheel (one of the more odd
torture devices) and it's from this that the idea of the catherine wheel
firework is supposed to come.  The wheel allegedly fell in pieces and she
was unhurt, but the flying splinters killed some of the spectators.  She
also apparently converted 200 hundred of the emperors soldiers because of
her unwavering faith.  Unfortunately they were immediately beheaded.
Finally ( and in many of the stories of the Martyrs) she was finally killed
off by being beheaded.  (You would have thought that after a while they
would have twigged this:

"Don't torture the Christians, just behead them.  It's quicker and it saves
having to get more recruits for the army.)"  After the loss of her head,
Catherine's body shed milk not blood.  Her body was carried by angels to
Mount Sinai, where there's an Orthodox monastery that contains her shrine.
The general opinion of theologists is that the above story is so much
twaddle or as the politer ones put it an edifying romance.  The reason I
know is I used to study art history, & in the Renaissance she was a popular
saint, usually portrayed in what was referred to as a mystic marriage with
Christ ( the baby Jesus on his mother's lap places a ring on her finger) or
just standing about with the wheel beside her.  I remember as a kid (quite
some time ago) that there were always catherine wheels in the firework
selection for Bonfire Night in the UK, where they would be attached to the
shed door by a nail & lit gingerly at arms' length.  Don't see them as much
these days.  still waiting impatiently for Wasp Star Jayne

please take a minute & visit the site below.  By clicking on the donate
button money is given to the UN's World Food Programme.

Apples are always inspiring... I have found them so all my life and
always shall.
Mark Gertler


Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 19:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tyler Hewitt <>
Subject: this week's winner
Message-ID: <>

this weeks winner in the 'it makes me hit the pagedown
button' sweepstakes:
Long, boring posts on how brilliant the Beach Boys

Add them to my Musical Spinach list. I just don't get
'em. Their fans do seem to have the ability to write
hideously long posts in their defence, however. so
they may, in their own way, encourage literacy.


Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 20:29:38 -0700
From: Herne <>
Subject: The Man Who Murdered WASP STAR
Message-ID: <>

To the listee who heard the new CD and was bitterly disappointed...try
to remember that XTC is often a band whose new offerings are so
different to the previous ones that it can be shocking.  Rudely so in
fact.  I've often been disappointed by  first listens to what later
bacame favorites.  For example:

Some past negative first listens...

Mummer...hated it.
Big Express...All You Pretty Girls?  What the f*** is this crap?
25 O'Clock...Sounds like s***.  What's all this about?
Skylarking..."Oh great another piece of s*** like Mummer"

Later on of course...

All of course for Mummer which has become somewhat
tolerable with a few bright shiny moments.  That previous sentence is
probably the harshest review I could give an XTC album.  I have yet to
find anything of course much of TAKE AWAY or Go Plus
but that's another story.




Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 22:23:29 -0700
From: "Eric Foster" <>
Subject: I Done Got Stung By A Dang Ole Wasp
Message-ID: <004001bfa051$69114d80$010a0a0a@bluegreengod>

Hey All,

I typically just pleasantly lurk and don't post much, but I scored MP3's of
The New One, and just had to contribute to the endless critiques of Wasp

First the title : At first I think I shared everyone's opinion of the title.
Oh jeez, why not AV2 like planned. However, after stewing on it, and after
reading the actual origins, I like it just fine. You go Andy! Plus I am
plagued by a horrible fear of stinging insects, so it is especially
intriguing to me.

Next, I would like to comment about the "I didn't like it at first but it
grew on me til I loved it" phenom of most XTC records, even among the
hardcore fans myself included. Well, that was VERY much the case with AV1,
however I took to the new one immediately. In fact, I think I was geared for
disappointment by the many negative reviews on this list. I was expecting
something strained and thin. I was pleasantly surprised. However, to me it
struck me as such a radically different record than AV1, that maybe it
should have been JUST "Wasp Star". That is just my impression after the 3
listens I have given it. The standouts in my opinion are "Playground,"
...Murdered Love,"(the radio song indeed!!), "We're All Light," (the
sequencing treatment on the main riff is especially nice, as well as the
Theremin-like sound!),  and "Wounded Horse." I wasn't overly impressed with
Colin's numbers yet, but his tunes are usually the ones that take the
longest to grow on me. Anyway, it is FAR from being a disappointment.



Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 20:39:10 -0700
From: "Digitalmaster" <>
Subject: Napster meets Waspstar: The truth about XTC and MP3's
Message-ID: <001d01bfa042$d695f220$0200a8c0@digitalpc>

I hate to be the voice of reason or debate, but this is in regards to what
Harrison Sherwood  so eloquently said to Carl.  For one, Harrison is right.
I think its pretty fucked up to come on this board and talk about where
people can find bootlegs of XTC's new work.  Especially considering how
screwed they got from Virgin.  However, I see both sides of the argument and
I agree with Carl in that artists need to adapt;  I'm just not sure how

I am for MP3's.  Especially when it comes to out of print, live or rare
material.  But when it comes to new releases, that is a whole different
story.  The first week of sales can make or break an artist.  The sales the
first few weeks effects how much promotion and money that will go into the
release.  So, I wont partake in stealing anything from XTC or any other
artists I have respect for.  I am for trading.  I think most people who do
trading are fans (I prefer admirers) of the group they trade.  Which means
they are likely to promote and buy a lot of the groups stuff.  However, when
it comes to MP3's; fans can just trade stuff randomly and it seams like they
may end up not buying as many albums.

For independent artists, this is fine, they are use to not making money.
But don't punish "major label" or "established" artists because they you
feel its ok to steal music.  I like the idea of Napster, but as an admirer
of music, it scares me.  Will the Zappa estate lose money because all of the
Ryko Reissues are online?  Will groups like XTC and They Might Be Giants
disappear like that group U2 did back in the 80's (they were a good group.
Remember "War" and their last album "The Joshua Tree?"  In all seriousness,
as an admire I question the benefits of MP3, while I embrace them at the
same time.  I don't believe in suppressing the technology however.  I think
we need some type of middle ground.  I think corporations controlling the
networks should govern their network closer before the RIAA pushes for
tougher laws on copyright.

If Geocities would pay more people to watch for illegal MP3's, I think it
would help a great deal.  Then those of us who are honest MP3 traders can
have our fun privately, with rare and unreleased stuff.  I don't know.  This
is a confusing subject for me.  I am torn in the middle, though I was more
on the MP3 side originally.  Regardless, here is one thing I am irritated
about.  I don't think any of you should down the album until you listen to
it more.  I am expecting the best worst album I have ever heard after
reading all your confusing posts.  I know taste's vary, but some of you at
least have retracted negative statements, which means it does grow on you.
We wont get the XTC from the 80's back, and I have learned to accept that.
Now, I want to hear the XTC of the 00's.  I don't care if they make music
"our parents listened too."  In fact, my mom liked Zappa, XTC, Devo and
Boingo so I definitely don't mind it at all.  I still enjoy their music and
am looking forward to the album.  I don't want they to sound like Korn

The one beef I have always had was with record reviewers.  They don't pay
anything for the stuff they review.  They get a box of stuff, listen once,
and start talking bad about the stuff just because they don't sound like
what the radio is playing.  That is totally bullshit.  Something needs to be
listened to a few times before you can truly learn to accept or deny it.
(accept maybe for NKOTB and NSYNC).  I have read so many bad reviews by
writers who later would refer to the release (after it went Gold or
Platinum) as a classic. Especially when it comes to MP3 reviewers.  They
have no right to confuse listeners into not buying an album when all they
did was download a few songs and play them on some cheap as computer
speakers from Labtec.  So my point is, don't always believe what you read


Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 14:04:32 +1000 (EST)
From: Mud Shark <>
Subject: Wasp Star
Message-ID: <>

> From: (Moore's Code)
> REMEMBER....):

What's "Wasp Star"?


"I rail against God because I was told to stop eating paste in Sunday
school" - P.J.O'Rourke


End of Chalkhills Digest #6-67

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