Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #6-288

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 288

                 Monday, 23 October 2000


                     The Great Debate
             BUMBLE NOVA! (turkey pluto V.2)
                     More of the same
                   you're only lit once
                    Re: religious crap
                    season pop cycles
             Why the obsession with religion?
                 A Question and an Answer
                       It Sez 'Ere
                  Immaculate Reception?
Come Seven, Come Eleven, Baby Jesus Needs a New Pair of Shoes
                        XTC on ice
            God is perturbed at you!.. Brian!
             The New Newell and a 49 cent cd
Stop Grovelling! If there's one thing I can't stand, it's grovelling!


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7b (John Relph <>).

When right is rifle-shaped where can you hide?


Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:59:13 +0100
From: "David Edwards" <>
Subject: The Great Debate
Message-ID: <006301c03946$4604fd80$52c3883e@oemcomputer>

Dear Folks

A couple of points on the great religion debate. First, if you believe in
freedom of expression, then you believe in the freedom to express views you
don't like: even Hitler was a big fan of the freedom to express views he

It's quite reasonable to argue that atheism is itself a kind of religion. It
is, after all, often based on a kind of certainty about the fundamental
nature and origin of the universe - both complete unknowns. It sometimes
clearly rests on a version of faith. You could argue that this release from
uncertainty is itself a kind of stress-relieving wishful thinking: there's
nothing to worry about, just go out and have as much fun as possible while
you can, or whatever. The tendency to dismissively reject other belief
systems as primitive and obviously foolish - with our belief system the one
final, reasonable (scientific) Truth - is also characteristic of the more
fundamentalist religions.

Traditional religions can be dangerous, but so can belief systems not
normally associated with religion: Stalinism killed maybe 10 million, the
Nazis 6 million. Our 'reaonsable', 'rational', science-based, 'liberal
democracies' have brought the world to the edge of environmental
catastrophe, and so on. You could also argue that the casual rejection of
all 'spiritual issues' as 'bullshit' is just ideal from the point of view of
corporate capitalism. As retailing analyst Victor Lebow noted:

"Our enormously productive economy demands that we make consumption our way
of life, that we convert the buying and use of goods into rituals, that we
seek spiritual satisfaction, our ego satisfaction, in consumption. We need
things, consumed, burned up, worn out, replaced, and discarded at an ever
increasing rate."

The corporate capitalist system - which runs our economies, politics,
schools, media - doesn't want us worrying about deeper issues; it wants us
consuming, buying, producing: 'Just do it!' Thoreau put it well: "Every
generation laughs at the old generation, but follows religiously the new."


David Edwards


Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:06:25 -0600
From: "Bob O'Bannon" <>
Subject: Polanyi
Message-ID: <>

Those of you convinced of the invincibility of science and "quantifiable
evidence" should try reading Michael Polanyi's book "Personal Knowledge" to
see how unscientific much of science has been. He shows quite thoroughly how
faith and personal commitment play an integral part in all epistemological
encounters -- not just in areas of religion. Here's a very small sample:

"Modern man has set up as the ideal of knowledge the conception of natural
science as a set of statements which is objective in the sense that its
substance is entirely determined by observation, even while its presentation
may be shaped by convention. This conception, stemming from a craving rooted
in the very depths of our culture, would be shattered if the intuition of
rationality in nature had to be acknowledged as a justifiable and indeed
essential part of scientific theory." -- Polanyi, p. 16.

If anyone wants to get my attention on this subject, email me personally,
because I don't check this list very much.

Sorry, no XTC content.



Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:54:33 CDT
From: "vee tube" <>
Subject: BUMBLE NOVA! (turkey pluto V.2)
Message-ID: <>

         Welcome to the 2nd Wonder Annual
         Harvest XTC Parody Song Festival!

                What The F**?????

    A brief eggsplantation may be in order. Last year
  a contest was held here. 'Hillers were invited to write
  lyrics to A.V.V.1. that used Thanksgiving Day as the

    Feathers flew! Gravy Stained! Cranberry Sauced!

    And, I can tell by the Monarchs flying up my shorts,
  it's that time of year again!

             Here's how it works,

01. Wasp Star is the inspiration.

02. Happiness is the destination.

03. Anything to do with the Autumnal/Winter season is
      fair game (excepting the interruption of the Finoid
      mating season).

04. If it ain't funny or uplifting, YOU LOSE!

             If you're still with me, let me
         provide a totally lame example of what it is.

                "Bitchin sleigh
     (druma dump dump dum, druba dump dum dum)

                Bitchin sleigh
     (Rump buba dum dum, rump rump-arump dump!)

             I've got a kick-ass,
             Yes, it's a kick-ass,

                BITCHIN SLEIGH!
              Bea-atchin' sleigh!

           With sub-woofers,
           And a sun roof,
           Pulled by Reindeer,
           Thirty-two-oo hooves!

              (If you don't count Mr.Dancer!)"

           This should remove the 'Fool' factor!

     So, you're all invited to contribute to the occasion,

          (some of my best friends are Druidsh!)

  Unlike last year, this is an *EXHIBITION* only! This is NOT!
a CONTEST! (residents of Ohio should consult their state's
Attorneys Generals)

              And, there are a few rules.

       All exhibitionists should expose them elves
  on the 'Hill between Nov.1-15 (give or take a digest)

       The exposed part should be at least one verse
  and one chorus (extra credit will NOT be awarded to
  grossly enlarged extensions!).

        Employees of Mrs.Paul's,Gorton's,Fisher Boy,etc.
   are of course barred from participation.

     Unfortunately, prizes will not be awarded this year*


*my lawyers said I have to call them 'Gifts' this year,
             or spend some serious time in the...

                      "Big Bowl!"



Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:15:59 -0400
From: "Todd and Jennifer Bernhardt" <>
Subject: More of the same
Message-ID: <>


BM said:
> Thanks, Duncan!
> Couldn't have said it better myself.

Well, at least you got *something* right.

> XTC content:
> To whomever of it was of you that made the remark about the
> 'boy in blue'
> _debacle_, as they called it,

That would have been we, er, me. Did you delete the issue? Forget where
the back issues of the digest are on the site? Oh, just being lazy. I see.

> allow me insert one more
> explanation for my
> perception of what was being said in "No Thugs In Our House"... we hear
> about the 'boy in blue' at the end of the first verse (which
> seems geared
> toward describing the family members), then we go to the chorus... upon
> encountering the second verse, there is mention of  'the young
> policeman'-
> and the predicament the family has encountered - as if we are
> entering a new
> chapter in the story (which we are). Now given this analyses, we can
> probably see why I made the inference I did.

Oh, sure. If I ... er, we ... uh, WHATever ... was an idiot.

> Sure, A.P. is a gifted songwriter (and this is an
> understatement), but there
> is something to be said for telling a story with a little more
> structure to avoid such confusion, if it IS such.

Shut the fuck up, Brian.

David van Wert said:
> As a marginally (a thin margin perhaps, I'll
> admit) more mature person now, I find the contemptuous derision of
> other people's feelings, religious or otherwise, to be inexcusably
> rude and offensive. The fact I am then driven to expose the obvious
> flaws in the deriders arguments in a rude manner myself only proves
> that I do not possess the Buddha nature. My own inner angry teen
> resurfaces in a slightly modified form. I don't attack your beliefs.
> I only attack the way you choose to express them.

Thanks, David!
Couldn't have said it better myself.



Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:41:12 EDT
Subject: you're only lit once
Message-ID: <>

Chris V sayeth/asketh:

I do see in some of Andy's lyrics his awareness of the "harmony of all
that exists" is such songs as Rook, Yacht Dance, All of a Sudden
("life's like a firework- you're only lit once [by whom?]

Not by whom, by what.  LOVE.



Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:31:42 -0400
From: "Brian" <>
Subject: Re: religious crap
Message-ID: <000d01c039c8$8f2b5cc0$140affd1@Brian>


Roger wrote:

>For Gods sake, knock this shit off!!!!<

But - but - they're so... so...

>Humans dont deserve to have a heaven. Humans suck!! We're are the ONLY
reason things are bad on this planet.<

That's a very good point, if we give creedence to the idea of evil. But how
we paint 'evil' is far different than what it really is... a tool nature
uses to create and modify and experiment with (if I can be so
anthropomorphic) what it has wrought.

>If there was a heaven (and there isn't), all other creatures would go
there, not people.<

If I had my say, yep.

>The worst thing that could of happened to us humans was developing our

Hindsight's 20/20, ain't it?

>Besides ,if there was a God, XTC would be on the radio, not Dave Matthews.

Well, I like Dave Matthews (no relation, though), so I can't necessarily
back you up here, but as for the rest... yep.

-Brian Matthews


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:28:03 -0400
From: sjacobs <>
Subject: poozies
Message-ID: <>

Has everyone else heard. The Poozies sing "Love on a farmboys wages?"

The best cover ever.

Buy it!!! It is on
Chantoozies by The Poozies


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:39:56 -0700
From: alecw <>
Subject: season pop cycles
Message-ID: <>

hello chalk folke,

i found a website that andy would like  lots of information about
may day, harvest day, mummer's day, etc.  great maypole illustration

thanks for your time,



Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:50:52 +0900
From: "John Boudreau" <>
Subject: Book
Message-ID: <000001c039d6$77baf6a0$785791d2@johnboud>

Dear Christians , Athiests and Agnostics ,

Whatever you are ; I suggest that the next time you are in a book store
 you check out " The Case For Faith : A Journalist Investigates the Toughest
Objections to Christianity " . It is by Lee Strobel and published by
Zondervan Publishing House . ISBN 0-310-23469-7 . Only $ 12.99 .

John " In heaven there ain't no sushi , that's why I eat it here " Boudreau


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:08:00 -0400
From: Robert Miner <>
Subject: Why the obsession with religion?
Message-ID: < >

I've never seen a mailing list more obsessed with religion.  Which is really
quite ironic, as Andy Partridge's world view is essentially humanistic.  (I
don't remotely share his world view, by the way, but I can still recognize his
brilliance as both a songwriter and lyricist.)

As a newbie on this list, I look forward to reading more about what makes XTC


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:31:53 -0700
From: "rmjenn" <>
Subject: A Question and an Answer
Message-ID: <001d01c039f3$27445640$1d7ffea9@rjenness220462>

Here's something that appeared on another mailing list (after reportedly
originating on a Nick Cave list) that seemed appropriate to this list (and
probably every other mailing list)....

Some references have been changed to add XTC context.

Q: How many Chalkhillians does it take to change a light bulb?

 A: 1,386 from the following breakdown:

1 to change the light bulb and to post a message that the light bulb has
been changed.

14 to share personal experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light
bulb could have been changed differently.  (And what XTC songs should be

11 to cite references to light bulbs in XTC songs. (We're All Light,

7 to post lyrics to obscure English folk songs about light bulbs.

17 to cite biblical references to light.

47 to question the existence of god.

205 to defend their religious convictions.

27 to point out factual errors in biblical references.

53 to flame the fact checkers.

41 to correct facts in the fact-checking flames.

156 to write to the administrator complaining about the light bulb
discussion and its inappropriateness to this forum.

109 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this
exchange elsewhere.

111 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs
and therefore the posts **are** relevant.

306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy
the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this
technique, and what brands are faulty.

22 to post favorite light-bulb jokes.

27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs.

14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected

3 to post about links they found from the URLs about other light bulbs
relevant to this forum.

7 to ask anyone to please re-post light-bulb URLs because they accidentally
deleted them.

33 to post messages saying "Me Too."

12 to post to the forum that they are unsubscribing because they cannot
handle the light bulb controversy.

19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three."

1 to propose a new XTC mailing list without light bulb discussions.

86 votes of agreement.

57 votes of disagreement.


Bob J.


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:29:13 +0000
From: The Worrier Queen <>
Subject: It Sez 'Ere
Message-ID: <>

Just thought I'd share with you this quote from Marcus Aurelius.

"If there is a God, follow him, and if there isn't, be Godlike yourself."

Jayne the Worrier Queen

He Toi Whakairo He Mana Tangata
Where there is artistic excellence, there is human dignity.
Maori saying


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:25:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Rosenberger <>
Subject: Immaculate Reception?
Message-ID: <>

Allo chalkites,

After an exhaustive search of the digest archives I think I can say
this has never been brought up before, forgive me if it has.

Does anyone know if Sony were consulted before their corporate name was
used in "Respectable Street". I can't remember ever hearing about Sony
being ticked off about it but I was listening to it last night and I
was thinking how if that song was released today Sony would probably
sue them faster than Brittany Spears changes clothes. Anyone have any

The Mole "just curious" from the Ministry


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:21:15 EDT
Subject: Come Seven, Come Eleven, Baby Jesus Needs a New Pair of Shoes
Message-ID: <>

I owe an apology to Amy.

My post in #286 implied that all sides were equally guilty of reviving our
periodic bouts of unpleasantness over religion. Stupidly, I didn't carefully
review the origins of the debate, and failed to make the connection between
Jayne's very moving post about the loss of a relative, and Amy's tender and
humane offer of comfort in Jayne's sorrow.

It's particularly depressing that such an act of kindness should have been
the springboard to the boorishness that's been on display. The world is a
hard enough place; and expressions of contempt for the honestly held beliefs
of our fellow sufferers only makes it harder. I think people of goodwill on
all sides of the debate understand this. Wish everyone did.

I'm sorry you were subjected to all this, Amy, and I apologize for having
implied you were responsible for the topic's having arisen. An act of
tenderness is never unwelcome anywhere, ever, even (or perhaps *especially*)
in Anonymous Cyberspace, and I thank you for having offered it.


Black Sea not only reminds me of my punk days--it WAS my punk days! Fertile,
loamy, flavorful, sprawling, political, apolitical, angry, loving,
reflective, incredibly smart, short-sharp-shocking but just musical as all
hell, three-minute treatises of incredible pop-economy and power, sporting
fripperies like diminished chords (fuck, what other album of dance music in
1980 boasted *diminished chords*?) just tossed in there like, fuck you, and
you can take your punky insistence on Purity and Immediacy and go whistle,
'cos I'm channeling Paul McCartney in 1962 losing bladder control during
"Like Dreamers Do"...the rattling-bones-dancing-at-Ground Zero photographic
summation of what it was like to be alive and frightened during the
asshole-winking jumpiness of the first Reagan Administration ("we begin
bombing in five minutes"--har-dee-har-har, Mister President!) finding its
*perfect* expression, its absolute diamond-clear crystallization--


There is nothing, Lou Reed once said, so perfect as
two-guitars-bass-and-drums. And Black Sea is, simply said, Perfection.


What is Ruben Blades saying? Miles and/or Gigi Coleman once deciphered it for
us, and the results can be seen in

>I'm pretty sure he says:
>"De Ruben Blades y Son del Solar  para ti, un abrazo a la gente de XTC!"
>In other words:
>"A hug to the guys from XTC from Ruben Blades and the Son del Solar!"
>(that's his band)


"Mummerday" sounds like it should mean something really filthy in Pig Latin,
doesn't it?


Chris Vreeland quotes Gregory Corso:

>Yet Truth's author itself is nothingness
>And though I make it vital that nothingness
>            itself will collapse
>There is nothing.
>Nothing ever was
>Nothing is a house never bought
>Nothing comes after this wildbright joke
>Nothing sits on nothing in a nothing of many nothings
>            a nothing king

(And as somebody-or-other once said...)

And if you want to know what Nothing looks like
Well, just pull back my chest and take a look inside here!

>I do see in some of Andy's lyrics his awareness of the "harmony of all
>that exists" is such songs as Rook, Yacht Dance,  All of a Sudden

>There, Harrison. You happy?


May I once again point to the incredibly sublime "Harvest Festival," which as
far as I'm concerned is a perfect expression of Andy's "harmony of all that
exists" religiosity? Think of the conflation of carnal and religious love
that flows between the singer and the girl at the altar, all filtered through
exquisitely observed nostalgia for childhood and its as-yet undisappointed
possibilities. The mundane banality of the festival (itself a toothless echo
of ancient celebrations of fertility) is suffused by something that I think
Andy, if pressed, might call "God": The Longing Look.

I still can't listen to it without getting all squishy.


>From David van Wert:

>(I won't begrudge you a shot at having the public "last word"), cc me
>as well as I'll be unsubscribing. When I get (and then feel obliged
>to give) significantly more irritation than joy from a list devoted
>to my favorite band, it's clearly time to go.

Old-bearded-guy-in-the-clouds-DAMMIT. Immanence-of-the-Eschaton-DAMMIT.
Tetragrammaton-DAMMIT. I-Am-that-I-Am-DAMMIT.
By-Definition-Undefinable-DAMMIT. Prime-Mover-DAMMIT. Alpha-and-Omega-DAMMIT.

Need anything more be said? Could it be any clearer? THERE IS A REASON WE

God/Absence of God Damn It.

Harrison "And the horse He rode/didn't ride in on" Sherwood


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:35:38 -0200
From: Paulo X <>
Subject: XTC on ice
Message-ID: <l03130309b61517bc123c@[]>

I was just watching the tape of the San Jose Sharks vs. Dallas Stars game
on ESPN (it was broadcast last night by ESPN2 in the US), and all of a
sudden I heard a familiar chorus on the background, during one of those
short game intermissions: it was IMTMWML!!!

Kudos to the people who are responsible for the soundtrack at the arena,
even though they *played* "Rock'n'Roll Pt. 2" sometime during the same

Paulo, Curitiba, Brazil.

"Everybody wants to be Cary Grant.
Even I want to be Cary Grant."
               -- Archibald Leach


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:10:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lord Almighty <>
Subject: God is perturbed at you!.. Brian!
Message-ID: <>

My Son;

>I don't believe in a god because it doesn't exist.
>I reserve the right to tell people they're off their
>nut if I so think
>that's the case.

>-Brian Matthews

We both know you are just fabricating this nonsense
to attract attention to yourself..  Shame on you!!
How about all the fox-hole prayers you mutter to me
when you are in dire need?

"OH God!!  I promise I'll never do it again!"  or,
"God, Please help me!!"...

Brian..Brian.. BRIAN!!!!!  Behave yourself, or
Purgatory it will be!!!


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:44:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: travis schulz <>
Subject: The New Newell and a 49 cent cd
Message-ID: <>

Whaaaaaat's up!?  Has anyone here heard the new album
from Martin Newell "The Spirit Cage"?  It would be
nice to get some reviews on it.  I ordered mine today
at my local record store although I know is really the ultimate place to buy
all Newell stuff.  By the way, I recently bought an
album from some band called The Guy Forsyth Band.  I
paid only 49 cents for it brand new- just thought I'd
mention to check your cheapie bins for anything by
them beacause it's really great.  People who like Tom
Waits or John Hiatt should definitely check them out.
No XTC content except that XTC is a darn good band!


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:31:40 -0500
From: "William Sherlock" <>
Subject: jump
Message-ID: <>

Any collectors (or anyone with knowledge) out there...was "Jump" ever
released except as an extra track on the Mummer CD?

"I should be in bed, I need my 11 hours. I'm a real sleep addict. I started
off just napping. Then I got into the harder stuff...siestas. Before I knew
what was happening I was a sleep junkie."    Andy Partridge, Melody Maker,


Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:45:16 EDT
Subject: Stop Grovelling! If there's one thing I can't stand, it's
Message-ID: <>

Mounds of chalkery,

>Here's my unified field theory about what is *really* wrong
>with the world. It's biological, and it's the unfortunate combination of two
>nasty human behavioural tendencies. One is the social instinct which
>predisposes us to comformity and and submission to dominant individuals. The
>other is a widespread, social practice/process [Jesuits mastered this
>centuries ago] which arrests congitive development, leaving large numbers of
>humans stranded in a marginally "pre-adult" -- and highly suggestible
>developmental state.

Beautifully stated, Dunks!  Hits the ol' nail on the head.  I recommend The
Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by Julian

>...if you go and get one of those red-letter bibles, you know, the ones with
the >words of Jesus in red ink, and you read JUST the red parts. The stuff
added by
>the other writers confuses the issue.

This leads me to another recommendation, The Lost Gospel of Q, by Burton
Mack.  It discusses the scholarly discovery of what would be an early source
book for the sayings of Christ, based strictly on Jesus's sayings in the
Gospels.  It indicates that the sayings have three distinct historical
layers, showing that the proselytizing Jesus was a more recent add on as well
as the concept of Jesus as the Christ and Savior.  These were added during
the zionist activities of the Roman / Jewish war circa 30 AD.  The narrative
of the Gospels was brought in with the writing of the Gospels, beginning with
Mark some 70 - 80 years after Christ's death.  Very eye opening.

>This is also true. I meant to type the name of Newton, who was a
>lifelong Christian...

Newton became a Unitarian.  Unitarians are a radical Protestant offshoot,
favored by thinkers and intellectuals, based on the concept of the
unification of the trinity into one Godhead.  They were heavily ostracized by
the theocratic Anglican institutions, and prevented Newton from advancing to
the top leadership of (of all places) Trinity College where he worked.  A
real nice way to treat the world's leading scientist of the time.  Good ol'
bicameral religion, just doin' it's thing!

Reminds me of a joke -
    Did you hear about the trouble they're having with the Unitarians in New
England?   Seems they were burning question marks on people's lawns...

Ok, ok, enough.  I've had my rants.  It's obvious that religion is a devisive
subject and I agree with Harrison that this sort of thing gets out of hand.
And thank you for making me aware of these yearly outbreaks; I'll be more
careful next time!  I apologize for my straying.  Dialogue never hurts, but
those of us who wish to indulge can do so off list.  Thank you to those who
have mailed me off list regarding Castaneda, and I'd be more than happy to
discuss it with you some more.  If any of you can get me links to Castaneda
stuff on the webb, please do!  But let's get back to XTC, shall we?
I want my Fuzzy Warbles!

Peace, love, music to you all!!!  Let's Rock!

Tom (did I just say that?  ouch!) K

"Get me down from here, Henry!"  Richard Nixon, 0000


End of Chalkhills Digest #6-288

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