Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #6-284

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 284

                 Sunday, 15 October 2000


                Hello...message from Andy
                         Re: Gods
             Re: Better Listen To The Radio?
                  Sugarplastic Blasphemy
                  Re: The thinking side
                       Re: Ok, fine
                 Another XTC-ish sighting
                       KCRW events
                  Re: Mitch's Last Post
                    Raising the living
 Everything will be alright...and other songs of comfort!
                  fuck off-I'm stuffed!
              Hell, and a quick Hand Shandy.
                    ITMWML on the WB!
   Stop It! You're Killing Me! (XTC Live! In Amsterdam)
                Oh, God, you are so huge!
                     XTC on TV!!!!!!!


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7b (John Relph <>).

Is it all dust and denial / As lifeless as some lunar sea?


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:30:07 EDT
Subject: Hello...message from Andy
Message-ID: <>

Howdy folks:

Haven't spoken with you guys in a while, been working on a new XTC
site...since my old one is too heavy to load quickly, is designed poorly and
offers little to the fans of the band...(in other SUCKS)...I've
been busy working on one that will provide a lot more to you all.  So, that's
why I've been gone.....miss me?

I'm way behind on my digests....don't think I'll ever catch up so I'm giving
up, not enough time I'm afraid.

Andyway:  I spoke with Andy today.  This may be old news, like I say..I'm

Andy says that Virgin may be relenting on their stance on Fuzzy Warbles.  He
says there is a bit of a catch (of course), but that it's not a bad one.
He's currently busy converting a lot of the old demos to prepare for the
birth of Mr. Fuzzy.

Thought you would all want to know.

I'll let you know when the new site is up, and I'll have an important
question to pose to you all regarding the content of the site.

Bye bye,

Optimism's Flames


Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:45:39 -0500
From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <>
Subject: Re: Gods
Message-ID: <l03130301b60ad4eb2382@[]>

>We're all atheists.
>There are about 2500 deities of some sort that we know of that have been
>believed in during recorded human history. And I'd bet the vast majority of
>you believers out there don't believe in 2499 of them. The only difference
>between you and me is that I don't believe in 2500 of them.
>I think you probably get my point.
>Ciao for niao,
>-Brian Matthews

  That doesn't wash- I believe in all of them, all 2500 of them. Doesn't
mean I like them all, or have met all but a few. I don't have to have seen
a black swan in Tasmania to know if they exist. There are so many things
human beings have imagined, and it doesn't come from thin air. There is no
way to create something from nothing. Even if you don't believe in a deity,
you can explain the same concepts you find in most religions via the
awe-inspiring concepts of astronomy and physics, if you go deep enough and
explore with the necessary wonderment.

Christopher R. Coolidge
Vermont State Senate candidate, Libertarian, Chittenden County


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:35:26 -0400
From: "Brian" <>
Subject: Re: Better Listen To The Radio?
Message-ID: <002501c03448$e6cf2a40$560affd1@Brian>


>I just don't bother with radio anymore; i've already passed that
station (pun! pun! pun!) years ago
Why should i ? Those two or three surprising records a day don't
outweigh all the crap, or the pointless phone-ins, or the blabbering
dj's. Honestly, i'd rather play English Settlement for the 11.384th

Eleven point three hundred and eighty-fourth time?!?
So, at what point in what song does that .384 put you there, Mark?

-Brian Matthews
Ain't I a stinker?


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:11:02 GMT
From: "Duncan Kimball" <>
Subject: (none)
Message-ID: <>


FYI - from the Washington Post, Oct. 6 (with thanks to Neil Ottenstein of
the Kinks list)

>"BRUSSELS, Oct. 5 -- Time Warner Inc. called off plans to join forces with
>a huge British music  company [EMI] today, removing a contentious issue
>that had clouded a review by European regulators of the U.S. company's
>separate but potentially more lucrative merger with America Online Inc.


>... The deal fell apart after the two companies refused to put in writing
>last-minute concessions to win [EU] regulatory approval that included the
>sale of Virgin Records and the disposal of a major music publishing

The full article is at:

* * * * *

And now for something completely different - some XTC content ... [pauses to
allow fellow Chalkers to recover from conniption fit ...]

Somewhat old news, but I forgot to mention that in the final episode of Roy
& H.G.'s "The Dream", on the night before the Olympic closing ceremony, they
played out to one of the ad breaks with 'Stupidly Happy'. I've heard it
several times on their radio shows too; I suspect H.G. is a bit of an XTC
fan, as they also gave 'Greenman' a good run when AV1 came out.

Oh and I could be wrong but I *think* there's a little article about Judee
Sill in the ?August?  edition of MOJO (maybe?)

* * * * *

Congratulations, Joseph Easter! You've done it old son! I thought it would
be cold day in hell before anyone surpassed our beloved Vee Tube for pure,
wiful obscurantism ... but your last post has really made the grade.
Actually, it made Vee's missive look like a positive exemplar of lucid
prose. ("E-blow"  - I loved that one!)

* * * * *

OK I know Tom K. and others are gunna hate me, but ... what is up with this
afterlife thing? ( ... we are being drawn into the hiiiiideous vortex...)

Y'know what always amazes me? In spite of centuries of scientific discovery,
in spite of all the coherent, logical reasons why we should (in general)
accept our world the way science interprets it, and in spite of the absence
of a single shred of genuine, reliable, irrefutable evidence for the
afterlife, god(s), magic, UFOs, ghosts, Atlantis, fairies, or all the rest
of that zany X-Files mullarkey ... grown humans STILL think like to pretend
that some Big Kahuna In The Sky -- God, ET, whatever --  will  reach down,
save their sorry asses and pluck them from the brink of eternal nothingness.

Explain -- what the hell IS it that makes these ditzy Bronze Age fairytales
so damn attractive and so immensely powerful -- even in the face of  hard
science and of technology that presents us daily with so many
incontrovertible examples of why all that old stuff is just fake, fake, fake

>Nonsense means to me that it makes no sense.  But who's to say for sure?

Oh no-one important. Just a few overhyped windbags like Newton and Darwin
and Einstein. Sorry Tom, but if that response was intended to perusade
anyone of anything, I think you blew it. (Not exactly the First Law of
Thermodynamics, is it?)

>I direct your attention to "The Fire From Within" by Carlos Casteneda.

Eeek, is that old charlatan STILL at it?? If you wanna wade knee-deep in a
morass of incoherent, half-baked mumbo-jumbo from an author who flounces
around in a Sears poncho pushing pre-digested pseudo-mystical psychobabble
to gullible hippies under the guise of "timeless Indian lore" --  then yeah,
I guess Carlos is your man.

On the other hand, if you care to read rational, analytical accounts of the
evolution and history of myth and religion, that *doesn't* diminish or
cheapen the mystical dimensions of our lives, and that has been written by
an ackowledged world authority on the subject who spent his entire life
writing and teaching about it -- then Joe Campbell is your man.

Start with "The Power Of Myth" - preferably on video, so you can hear and
see what a wonderful storyteller he was, as well as being a brilliant

>Whether there is truth to it or not, it does offer tantalizing
>possibilities outside of the rigid Judeo-Christian framework.

Erm ... so does atheism. What exactly ARE these possibilities, anyway? And
why is that that they always seem to involve  BUYING something or killing

>There is definitely a lot we
>do not know, we are just infants spiritually.

Kiss my aura, Dora! I know what the sound of one hand clapping is.

(...radiates beatific smile, assumes position of bodhisattva-like repose,
and awaits beckoning satori ... meanwhile, members of Chalkhills slowly file
past and slap me upside the head ...)

Yeah -- that's it!

>And Castenda is NOT new age!

Correct -- Castenada is NOT new age -- he is, in fact, OLD HAT.

Let's face it -- the guy is about as mystical as Jimmy Swaggert.

>The booksellers just don't know where else to
>put his works.

(grits teeth personfully to avoid making very obvious joke ...)

Well, I'm off to ask Genghis Khan for some Tips From The Other Side.  He
tells me the Russian Royal family have a hot lead on next week's Lotto

Oh and thanks to Imanol for the lovely Colin interview!

Ectoplasmically yours

*Current reading: "Guns, Germs & Steel" - Jared Diamond. Exxxcellent!

*Current groove: "Go To Him" - Ray Brown & The Whispers - classic
proto-psych 1965 b-side by one of the great Aussie '60s beat bands

*Recent viewing: "Mission To Mars" - Haaated it! A ridiculous movie -- I
give it a '2'. Someone should have ejected Brian De Palma into space.


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:30:31 -0700
From: "Victor Rocha" <>
Subject: Sugarplastic Blasphemy
Message-ID: <009f01c03426$af3a2980$>


The Sugarplastic
(Escape Artist) It's a sad, oft-told story: Band gets signed to major label,
puts out a fine little album that said major label has no idea how to
promote; album stiffs; band gets dropped. But for the Sugarplastic, at
least, there's a happy ending. Like fellow Geffen escapee Aimee Mann, Ben
Eshbach and Company have shown that there's no better revenge on the majors
than putting out a great record on your own. Resin could be the best album
of the trio's career, continuing their campaign to become the American XTC.
Filled with cleverly constructed, tautly performed pop gems, the record
actually does the British band one better -- no mean feat -- as song for
song, Resin surpasses XTC's recent Apple Venus, Volume II. They've done this
all by themselves; their Web site proudly proclaims, "the Sugarplastic is
not represented by any manager, record label, union, person or persons." And
with (or without) all that, they've managed not only to survive, but also to
thrive. To paraphrase the Magritte painting that appears on the cover of
Resin, "This is not a pipe dream." -- Steven Mirkin


Victor Rocha


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:10:28 -0400
From: "Brian" <>
Subject: Re: The thinking side
Message-ID: <002d01c0344d$cb915780$560affd1@Brian>


>does this we can also talk about citizen disarmament and abolishment of
voting, as well as the insignificance of democracy, all of which AP has
either advocated or espoused in interviews in the past?<

Go for it.
If I don't want to read those posts, I'll pass 'em up.

>In our lovely, happy, diverse world, no solution or value is equally
valid in every situation or place. Our ideas and beliefs may work fine for
us where we might live, but not for others in the UK, where he is from, or
elsewhere.  And vice versa.<

But you're forgetting about the immutable and unforgiving yardstick of
This is what we must use to measure the validity of a belief system.
If I can't see it, hear it, taste it, touch it, or feel it, then I have no
good reason to accept its existence. Nor should anyone else.
Deities fall into this category.
And don't start with 'love' or 'mathematics'... I feel love and can see the
very real effects of mathematics on our world.

>Fair's fair. Or- as John Relph has already mentioned to us, we'd best leave
the political stuff at the door. Or is some (political) animals more equal
than otherz?<

Where I am concerned, my acceptance of the Universe at face value with its
physical laws and tried-and-true observational data tips the scales in my
favor. Any reasoning person could see it.

-Brian Matthews


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:56:32 -0400
From: "Brian" <>
Subject: Re: Ok, fine
Message-ID: <002901c0344b$d942d040$560affd1@Brian>


>Brian keeps it going:<

Yes, I do.

<< We're all atheists.
 There are about 2500 deities of some sort that we know of that have been
 believed in during recorded human history. And I'd bet the vast majority of
 you believers out there don't believe in 2499 of them. The only difference
 between you and me is that I don't believe in 2500 of them.
 I think you probably get my point. >>

So Amy said:

>I get what you're trying to say, but I don't agree, and here's why:<

>1. According to the dictionary, an atheist is "one who disbelieves in or
denies the existence of God or gods." Therefore, anyone who believes in ANY
God or gods cannot truly be an atheist, because he believes in at least one
God or set of gods. My feeling is an atheist believes in no God or gods at
all. Other religions may call me agnostic or an infidel because I don't
believe in God in the way they have chosen to understand it, but I don't see
how I can be called an atheist if I have at least some kind of belief in a
higher power.<

But you're STILL an atheist, as far as the adherents to that particular
subject of worship would be concerned.

>2. Actually, the difference between you and me is I believe in one of the
2,500 concepts of a higher power, and you don't believe in any higher

Just the laws of physics, which manifest themselves mightily to me every

>Those 2,500 labels for a supreme being are all human ways of trying to
grasp the same thing, in my opinion.<

Humans are incredible pattern-seeking creatures.
We see faces in the clouds... pictures of people on palm-oil soaked bank
building windows... create mathematics... because this ability was
engineered into us a long time ago by nature. It helps us out of a lot of
sticky situations, but by the same token it also makes us do weird things,
like fashioning unprovable belief systems.

>Religion is a personal thing, and I don't care what you believe, and I'm not
>out to convert anybody. I just don't appreciate being called nonsensical
>(which is why I responded in the first place ) or an atheist (which is why
>I'm responding now) or in some way considered inferior to you in intelligence
(>yes, I noticed you labeled your post "the thinking side." )<

My post was labeled "The thinking side" by someone else earlier in the
thread (in case your 'thinking self' had not noticed) and I was following
the rules of posting by including the thread subject, or people get all
pissy around here about it. Look up... I used your subject line this time.

And you can have your belief system. You are apparently stupidly happy with

No 'god' can possibly claim any higher stature over any other that's ever
held the forefront at any time.

-Brian Matthews
XTC content: next to last line above


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:29:44 EDT
Subject: Another XTC-ish sighting
Message-ID: <>

A little-bit of an XTC-related surprise:

I attended last night's World Cup Qualifying soccer match (USA v Costa Rica)
in Columbus, OH.  Among all the banners and flags there, there was a banner
in one corner for "Swindon Town FC"!  I wanted to find the person who put it
up, but was too engrossed in the match (a 0-0 draw - more exciting than it



Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:23:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: brown <>
Subject: KCRW events
Message-ID: <>

Some of you Hillians may wish to tune in for these upcoming events from our
friends at KCRW in Santa Monica:
An interview with Radiohead will be broadcast at 11a.m.PT on October 20.
Doughty, former Soul Coughing member, will be in studio to perform an
acoustic set in the eleven o'clock hour on October 23.
Details available at

..and yes, C'leo, I meant 'fine bottle'.. to my knowledge Nebraska has never
produced a bottle of' fine wine'.. <G>

Mummer Day cometh,

Debora Brown


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:07:06 -0700
From: "Neil Oliver" <>
Subject: Re: Mitch's Last Post
Message-ID: <000201c0346e$da3f43c0$654581d8@default>

Mitch referred to a "live version" of I Don't Want To Be Here to appear on
an AIDS compilation. What does "live version" mean in the context of XTC??


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:20:12 EDT
Subject: Raising the living
Message-ID: <>

For the past few days, my 2-1/2-year-old son has been running around the
house, "singing" at the top of his lungs: "may-POLE!! may-POLE!!" Ahh, it
warms the cockles of a mama's heart.



Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:24:36 -0700
From: "Macdonald, Robert " <>
Subject: Everything will be alright...and other songs of comfort!
Message-ID: <>

	It's been ages.  Well we've been busy.

	I am happy to announce the birth of my first child, a girl named Zoi
Kate Macdonald.

	As a few of my friends here at Chalkhills know already, my wife and
I went through a very tough year and a half losing two pregnancies, the
second which almost took my wife as well.  But now that is all behind us,
and unexpectedly everything worked out and we now have this healthy
beautiful little baby.

	Chalkhills feels a bit like family to me and all of you (and of
course the music of our favourite band) have helped get me through the last
year with a little love, humour, caring and friendship.

	I used to groan when people talked about their kids too much here on
Chalkhills but I just couldn't help but tell everyone my  wonderful news.
As people say (including Andy in interviews) you start to see the world from
a whole new perspective when you become a parent.



	Rob Macdonald
	Victoria BC Canada


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tyler Hewitt <>
Subject: fuck off-I'm stuffed!
Message-ID: <>

I find myself already wanting more new XTC music. AV1
was nourishment for a racked and ravaged XTC-seeking
AV2 was a wafer-thin mint.

Yeah, but look at what a wafer-thin mint did to Mr. Creosote!


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:11:19 -0400
From: "Duncan Watt" <>
Subject: Hell, and a quick Hand Shandy.
Message-ID: <>

Quoth the Holiest man on the list, bar none: Dom <>:

>For fuck's sake, why bother with your CD collection if you're happy with a
>medley of arse-candy prescribed by some numb-nuts with eighteen different PR
>todgers jammed up his holiest of holes? Eh? EH????

Now... that's more like it! Congrats, too on the Kerrang! gig, mister. I
couldn't think of a more perfect match-made-in-Heaven. Shit! Make that Hell,
I meant Hell! Sorry, man!

Duncan "straight up innya!" Watt

ps Six discs? Yeah! Yeah-to-the-sixth power! Here's a story... of a man
named Brady... who was bringing up six very lovely discs! Yeah!

email me:
surf me:


Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:02:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dorothy Spirito <>
Subject: ITMWML on the WB!
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.00.10010122059330.4410-100000@esun2028>

Holy shit!!!!  They used ITMWML in tonight's episode of Gilmore Girls on
the WB.  And you know how after the show, they show a picture of the CD
cover and announce who the artist was?  They said, "Tonight's episode of
the Gilmore Girls featured music from XTC's _Wasp Star: Apple Venus Volume
II_."  I was so excited!!!  I just *had* to get online and share.



Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:17:56 CDT
From: "vee tube" <>
Subject: Stop It! You're Killing Me! (XTC Live! In Amsterdam)
Message-ID: <>

                 Stop The Presses!

        Demos? You want demos? How about 6 CDs of the
     'good stuff'? If what M.F. says is true (I hope,
     I hope, a wish wish wish wish wish) I think I
     should stop my fuzzy MP3 project. In fact, I'll
     be deleting my 'waspspun' idrive this weekend.

       But what about all that great live stuff?

                It totally rocks!

     You'll also notice, this ain't no stinkin' Icrap!

         How did I pull this off? You ask.

    Sir Demon Brown E'd to thank me for my stinking idrives!
  He also reminded me of his 'Drunken Jams' site. So I thunk
  unto myself, "I wonder if he'd like to help me give away
  some kick ass live XTC"?

    He was reluctant at first, until I threatened to call upon
  all my fishy friends, and form a blockade around his little
  island home.

    Said he, "Ok"  So, I remastered the show, up't the MP3s
  and he did the rest. If you download this stuff and enjoy
  it (as if?) please be sure to thank him in your next post.

    If you have any LIVE (no demos, please) stuff, and would
  like to join the team,please E me off post.


P.S. Thank you for all the kind words on (and off) post
   as regards my demos. It's been my pleasure!



Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:25:39 EDT
Subject: Oh, God, you are so huge!
Message-ID: <>

Chalkers & Chalkettes,

I could get into a Bluegrass version of Mayor Of Simpleton.  Or how about a
"Newgrass" (a la Trishka/Grisman/Fleck) or maybe a Dan Hicks version of
Cynical Days?
>I know where: the circular file.
>Carlos Castenada and his supposed 'experiences' have been shown to be a
>Thanks, but nice try.

Well, first off, my comments were not meant to be a slight to yours, merely
an alternative stance to the whole question of God and the afterlife, or the
absence of.  I offered Castaneda's works as a potential alternative among
many.  Where I'm coming from is this; no one knows for certain.  Especially
atheists.  To "believe" in something or to "believe" in nothing is merely an
act of believing, with no empirical knowledge to support these positions.

Western culture's predominate religous social matrix has been
Judeo-Christianity for the past 2000+ years.  (Stating the bleedin' obvious
again!).  This is a system of beliefs that that offers the God, Satan, Heaven
& Hell bit, with sin, redemption and everlasting afterlife as it's cosmic
model.  But it is a *system*, period.  It's like a computer program that's
been inserted into our minds, forcing us to think in the terminology *of that
system*.  As a result, when discussions arise among people of this background
(probably most of us here), we try to grapple with these things *within the
terminology of that system*.

A case in point are the notions of God and Satan.  Opposites.  When working
within the system, we declare that we believe in God, or believe in Satan.
What we're not seeing is that one can't believe in one without believing in
the other.  They're both players in the same game.  Imagine a baseball bame,
where God is the pitcher and Satan is the batter.  If you removed either one,
the game couldn't be played.  Right?  Same deal with Christianity.  Without
Satan and sin, you couldn't have any reason to seek redemption and God.  When
you pull back and see it this way, you realize it's just a game.  And a
pretty silly one at that, when you see how people get so bent out of shape
over it!  (Just watch some of the reaction to this!)

 The same holds true for theists and atheists.  By declaring yourself an
atheist, you're still playing the game.

If we try to compare to other "games", (Moslem, Hindu, Bhuddist and so on),
all were doing is comparing games.

On the other hand, if we realize that they are all games, *systems* of
religion that dominate our thought patterns but have no real substance, then
we can clear the decks for empirical knowledge and data gathering.  It's what
we're born to do as a species.  Instead of making judgements based on
"beliefs", we can build a *body of knowledge* based on discovery, learning
and understanding.  One that can't be a negative source of contention and
division among people.  Truth through discovery.

What attracts me to Castaneda is that the *body of knowledge* offered by Don
Juan and the Toltec Nagualists was built in just this fashion. The key book
in the series is The Fire From Within, as it reveals culmination of their
work and their understanding.  The revelation of the assemblage point, if it
has any truth to it whatsoever, could be the most important discovery of
humankind.  Read said tome to see why.

As for Castaneda's validity, I have Richard De Mille's works, and the works
of many others who have slaved away to debunk him.  In spite of date
conflicts and his own artful dodger act with his past (which falls in line
with the teachings, by the way), he has never been nailed to the cross as a
complete liar and hoaxer, with everything he's presented being shown as
totally untrue.  He had vehemently stated up to the end that it was all true.
 My point is that whether it is totally true, or was just a vehicle of
allegory to present his discoveries, what he has revealed to us bears serious
consideration.  Not as a *belief*, but as a roadmap of understanding, one
that will have more roads added as we learn.  It beats the cardboard cutout
model of Genesis.
I think the most spiritual XTC song is Rook.  Andy himself said he was a bit
unhinged by writing it....
>Name, Tom Kingston. Specialist subject, stating the bleedin' obvious.

Actually, that's just a sideline.  I mostly specialize in flatulent
pontification. (Just stating the bleedin' obvious!)

>Mind you, the man has taste.

Not always.  As I've said before, I do like Iron Butterfly.....:)

As always, it is a pleasure to be honored by you, Dom!  As it is a pleasure
to read your rants.  De-lurk again soon!
Slainte, Tom K.
"Gosh, we'll all impressed down here, I can assure you!"  -MP


Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:18:32 -0700
Subject: XTC on TV!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <012001c03518$16dc56c0$>

Hi kids!

Okay, they're not on TV in person or in concert, but here's the deal.  Last
night (Thursday) I taped the new series "The Gilmore Girls" on The WB
Network.  I've always been a big fan of the lead actress, Lauren Graham and
there's been a bit of hype that it's a really good show; apparently Lauren
is a single mom raising her daughter, etc.

So, the show opens and Lauren in giving her daughter a pedicure on the front
porch on the night before the daughter starts private school.  Suddenly,
another woman comes running up in the yard yelling "New CD! XTC Apple Venus
Volume Two!!!" and runs past them into the house and Lauren jumps up yelling
"Oh my God" or something and runs to the front door as the daughter yells
"Hey, you only finished half my foot" or something and Lauren yells "It'll
have to wait!" and runs in the door and then "I'm the Man Who Murdered Love"
blasts out of the stereo and we see the shadows on the curtains of the two
women inside dancing and somewhere around "What do you think to that?" the
scene fades and the show opening credits begin.

How cool is that?  Okay, it's on the WB so the audience is fairly low -
especially since it's on opposite the season premiere of "Friends", but,
it's a start and hopefully XTC got a least a few dollars for it.  Be sure to
look for the rerun, if the show lasts through the season.

Thanks for listening!



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