Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #6-275

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 275

               Saturday, 23 September 2000


                Andy's Music 365 Interview
                     Songs that help
               Suddenly the sadness hits...
                    You Look Like Rain
                snipping snipping snipping
                      High Fidelity
              Dance to the Circus Procession
              Short Replies to Long Messages
                      Demo Rejection
                Wasp Star and other stuff
                  Wayward XTC interview
         Dome again or reasons not to be cheerful
                       Effing Right
         Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hocter Helicopter
                    I Dome believe it


    To UNSUBSCRIBE from the Chalkhills mailing list, send a message to
    <> with the following command:


    For all other administrative issues, send a message to:


    Please remember to send your Chalkhills postings to:


    World Wide Web: <>

    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7b (John Relph <>).

You take a ride upon a bus, it's just a fuss.


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 08:10:07 EST
From: "Andrew Gowans" <>
Subject: Andy's Music 365 Interview
Message-ID: <>

Greetings Folks,

I'm back on deck and I have upped the .ram files of Andy's interview on
music 365 to an I-Drive. Thanks to those who suggested some converters, but
I couldn't find software to do the conversion from Real Video to .avi or
.mpg. I'll keep an eye out all the same.

The files are at:

the usual arrangements for downloading from I-Drive apply - annoying
sometimes aren't they ? Oh well, it's generally convenient.


Andrew Gowans


Date: 22 Sep 00 09:52:10 EST
Subject: Collaboration
Message-ID: <>

That collaboration with Iva Davies that Andy alluded to a couple of years
back looks like finally seeing the light of day.  The Icehouse front-man was
being interviewed on TV this morning, and in talking about his forthcoming
projects, expressed his excitement about new songs he has written with "Andy
Partridge of XtC".

That's all.


PS:  Wes, got your message.  Preparing updates and reply.


Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:19:31 -0700
From: Randy Hiatt <>
Subject: Songs that help
Message-ID: <>
Organization: home

Mark S. @ the Little Lighthouse  said of sad moods and songs that

<going through the emotional depths of the
song's protagonist somehow deminishes my own misery.

There's a quite a number of other XTC tracks that can have this kind
of cathartic effect on me... Complicated Game, Language, Nihilon,
Seagulls, Train Running Low etc. But "1000 Umbrellas" is the one i
always pick to treat my broken heart>

Xtc has one song which works on both ends of this spectrum (up or down)
for me,

World Wrapped In Gray

Randy Hiatt

now hear my mp3's at:


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:37:26 EDT
Subject: Suddenly the sadness hits...
Message-ID: <>

This is truly sad from my point of view:

"Hit Me Baby One More Time,"
a song by a sixteen-year-old girl
who seems to be advocating hitting,
becoming an enormous hit


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:47:04 +0900
From: "John Boudreau" <>
Subject: You Look Like Rain
Message-ID: <000001c024a1$5d9a45e0$7a5791d2@johnboud>

Kirk wrote :

>I must tell everyone to go out and buy the CD "Good" by
>Morphine.  On that disc, they will discover the song "You Look Like >Rain,"

I highly recommend ALL the Morphine albums including the most recent " The
Night " .  My " good " buddy Jerome Deupree plays drums on " Good " ; " Cure
For Pain " and  " The Night " . Probably the best 3 CDs Morphine have
released .

XTC content is Jerome once contacted XTC management around the time they
were getting ready to record NONESUCH and offered his drum services as he
was a big fan . Nothing materialized ... JD met Dave Gregory through Dave
Mattacks ( drummer on Nonesuch and now close friend of Jerome's ) at
Fairport Convention's Annual Festival at Cropredy . I am
lucky to be friends with both DM and JD , two drummers I highly respect .
It's a small world after all ...



Date: 22 Sep 2000 15:11:00 +0100
From: "Robert Wood" <>
Subject: Dome
Message-ID: <>
Organization: Mutech Ltd

Sorry to the non Brits on the list...

Dave said:

>> I put Dome-bashing down to PC ness and a cynically, party-pooping
mentality. <<

For me it's the fact that it's in Laaarrndan. If they'd stuck it in a
more accessible location I'd have gone, but London's just way too much
of a PITA to get to and way to too expensive to be bothered with.


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:24:11 -0500
From: R van Vliet <>
Subject: snipping snipping snipping
Message-ID: <>

Sylvan said:

> "Don't forget to remove Omnibus from Nonsvch. <snip>
> As a matter of fact, Bungalow and That Wave can go, too. <snip, snip>"

when you wake up guilty in the morning, you may find important pieces gone.



Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:28:36 -0400
From: MinerWerks <>
Subject: High Fidelity
Message-ID: <a04310100b5f0d6f8c49c@[]>

This is a question to all the Chalkers in the UK...

If you saw the movie "High Fidelity," could you please email me
off-list and tell me if there was a song by The Jam in the flick?

I ask because I recently discovered that the soundtrack album
released in the UK had different tracks (and different artwork) than
the one released everywhere else... including a track by the Jam, but
in the US version of the film there were no songs by The Jam!

Along the same lines, if anyone in the UK knows where to pick up a
copy of the 2 LP issue of the soundtrack to "High Fidelity," I'd love
to get my hands on that as well. It's a shame only a handful of all
the tunes in that film were released as a soundtrack. You could
literally have compiled a 3 disc set with all the tunes!

XTC Content: Um,... it would have been cool to have an XTC song in the movie!

= Derek =

PS. If you loved the book "High Fidelity," you might be interested to
hear that some extra scenes appeared on the recent DVD of the film,
and most of them are great moments taken almost verbatim from the
novel. The one scene I was dying to see done in the film involved a
woman who wanted to sell off her philandering husband's vinyl
collection for pennies on the dollar,just to spite him. Turns out
they *did* shoot this scene for the film, with Beverly D'Angelo as
the wife, but it didn't make the final cut. What a joy to see it on
the DVD!!


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:12:07 -0400
From: "Todd Bernhardt" <>
Subject: Dance to the Circus Procession
Message-ID: <>
Organization: Enterworks, Inc.


Smudge asked:
> Oh, and am I the ONLY person who likes "Frost Circus" and "Procession"?

No, you're not. They're brilliant. You and I (and the other lovers of
these songs -- c'mon, I know you're out there) are right, and the
naysayers are wrong. If they listened to these songs for what they are
and didn't instead interpret them through the clouded glass of their own
expectations, they'd see the light.

> What did the DJ do? He played 'em all.
> What did my mate do? He refused to pay the DJ. Nearly ended up in
> fisticuffs until the DJ apologised and took 25% off his bill - I love other
> people's weddings.

Good for your friend! I think I would have insisted on at least
one-third off the bill, though...

> Oh, alright, here's the thread - what "classic" dance floor fillers
> would YOU not allow the DJ to play at your wedding / party /
> barmitzvah?

Well, as a list hater (NOT a Liszt hater), I won't bite, but I will
contribute this:



Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:14:59 +1100 (EST)
From: Mark <>
Subject: Short Replies to Long Messages
Message-ID: <>

> From: Thomas Long <>
> Subject: difficult age
> One of my fave xtc tunes, right up there with Wrapped in Grey, is
> Difficult Age. I find the lyrics spot on. But Andy, you've left us
> hanging!! Has anyone seen 7/14/28/35 etc up? What if Andy were to update
> Difficult Age and add a new verse... he's covered 14/18/29/38, how about
> 45? I would think divorce & a prostate would certainly figure prominently.

An excellent idea. It's a wonderful song. Very wry sense of humour, it's

> From:
> Subject: It's Raining Rain
> Ok. I give in. I must tell everyone to go out and buy the CD "Good" by
> Morphine.  On that disc, they will discover the song "You Look Like Rain,"
> which is one of the great mood-setters of all time.
> Put this disc on, turn the lights down low, grab your significant other
> and see what develops. This is one of the great nookie records. Bottom
> line.


Morphine in general is very sexy music. It helped that my ex-girlfriend
was a sax player, but regardless, beautifully smooth music.

> XTC content?
> I must say that the there's no one XTC disc that's great for use as sexual
> encounter music. There's always that one tune that kills the mood. AV1
> probably comes closest, but then "Your Dictionary" comes
> on....................

The last few songs in general are a little bit iffy on that score. Harvest
Festival is sweet, but The Last Balloon is way too sad. Greenman is great
though: so much pagan lust it's scary.

> "for a million years he has been your lover"

Damn. Someone beat me to it, I see.



Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:07:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: adam clark <>
Subject: Demo Rejection
Message-ID: <>


Anyone who has these demo songs: "The Ship Trapped In
The Ice" and "I Don't Want To Be Here" on some
collection and can tape it/burn it for me, please
contact me at

I have a little XTC, but mostly Robyn Hitchcock, REM
and Richard Thompson to trade.




Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 12:22:14 -0700
From: David Schneider <>
Subject: Wasp Star and other stuff
Message-ID: <>

>>> XTC content.....I like AV1 better than Wasp Star. Any takers?
>> Have to agree with you there. I'll probably be tarred and feathered for
>> this, but Wasp Star is actually my least favorite XTC album at the
>> moment.

Yeah, I'm afraid I have to add my name to this list of people to be tarred
and feathered. I love, love AV1, start to finish. A near-perfect album, in
my humble opinion. One of those sensory albums that will forever put me in
the mind of where I was during the time it was released (which, thankfully,
was a reasonably happy time. I hate it when those time-capturing albums
you'd otherwise love bring you back to a time you'd rather forget... The
Sunday's "Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic" comes to mind) As for Wasp
Star... well, it's not that I DISLIKE it or anything. In fact, I count
"Wheel and the Maypole" as one of my favorite XTC songs of all time. And
there's no one song on WS that I find myself hitting the 'next track' button
on... it's just that as a whole entity, it just doesn't quite work for me.
Try as I might, I just can't grab hold of it. I shamefully admit it's my
least favorite XTC disc as well.

But, having said that... saying "it's my least favorite XTC disc" is sort of
like saying "mint chocolate chip is my least favorite type of ice cream". Or
"[Insert sexual act here] is my least favorite sexual position". I won't
exactly refuse it, you know? WS still finds a place in my CD rotation, just
not as often as their others...

>> Possible new thread? "Music you never expected Dad/Mum would like".

Proud to say I turned my mother into a Pogues fan!

And Jill Oleson said, several issues ago:

> Turned me into a painter, it did.  And perhaps a writer too.  You movie-
> making Chalkers, whom I met at the SXSW Film and Music
> Festival (, will be proud to learn that
> after our discussions over Tex-Mex and margaritas that night,
> I did, indeed, decide to start writing a book.  I took your
> general advice to not write a screen play and go straight for
> the novel approach--an irreproachable idea I could not refuse
> -- not after seeing that severed horse head in my dreams...

I AM proud! Let me know how it's coming...



Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:40:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rob Hill <>
Subject: Wayward XTC interview
Message-ID: <>

Have at it:

Meanwhile, here's a few more sad tunes to add to the heap:

Lou Reed, The Bed
Kate Bush, This Woman's Work
John Lennon, Love
Brian Eno: By the River



Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:11:20 +0000
From: The Worrier Queen <>
Subject: Dome again or reasons not to be cheerful
Message-ID: <>

Just been reading David (Sneddon's) piece on the Dome & the thoughts
of Smudge, (beware more idle thoughts comin yer way), & James McRae.

I agree it should have been more centrally based rather than being
automatically placed in London.  Imagine if you will how long it would
take someone from Shetland (yes it is in the UK ;-} ) to get there.
That's reason no. 1 for disliking it.

Reason 2: (oh my god I'm doing listing now.  Got to give this up.)
It's ugly & it's already falling apart.  Good symbol for the coming
millennium - not.  (Remember no year zero.  All together "Pedant.")

Reason 3: OK the government could have spent that money on art
galleries, festivals, concerts.  They didn't.

Finally why I think the money should have spent on people?  People
make art.  (See the Maori quote below)

XTC content?  Umm I'm going to buy Drums & Wires this weekend.
Thanks Vee for pointing out where the drunken sessions can be found.

Smudge I like Frost Circus & Procession - you're not alone mate. And
> That Wave can go, too.<
Not round here it won't.

Jayne the Worrier Queen

He Toi Whakairo He Mana Tangata
Where there is artistic excellence, there is human dignity.
Maori saying


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:59:43 +0200
From: "Mark Strijbos" <>
Subject: Effing Right
Message-ID: <>

Dear Chalkers,

Kirk Gill (a.k.a. k ) made a very interesting but also worrying

> I must say that the there's no one XTC disc that's great for use as
> sexual encounter music. There's always that one tune that kills the
> mood.

Bugger !
So that's why i'm not getting any...

Mark "of course i'll introduce you to Dave" Strijbos


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:03:18 GMT
From: "Joel Reamer" <>
Subject: XTC?...Ha!
Message-ID: <>


      I thought you all might "appreciate" this. Last night I saw Guided By
Voices play here in Chicago, and at one point, a drunken Bob Pollard said,
"We're Guided By Voices, the greatest rock band in the world. I mean, who
else is there? XTC?...Ha!" He rambled on to mock Sebadoh, U2, and The
Flaming Lips, saying "Wayne Coyne can suck a fucking donkey dick." It was
quite the impressive display, and at any rate, I think it was the first time
I've ever seen XTC called out like that. Yikes.



Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:41:05 EDT
Subject: Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hocter Helicopter
Message-ID: <>

I had to do some research before taking this one on, which explains why it's
so late.

>From: "Edward Sizzorhends" <>
>Subject: The Return of the King - And quite Troubled he is....

>In the realm of The Skylar King, SIFJ doesn't possess just a quaint
>similarity to "Barrytown" by Steely Dan. If it is, then this is the same
>kind of quaint that got George Harrison's pants sued off for "My Sweet

Arrant balderdash, Your Highness, and I'll tell you why.

First things first: Dig out a copy of the British version of the Beatles'
"Help," (Or Beatles VI for the Capitol Records set), cue up "Tell Me What You
See," compare it to "Barrytown" and rejoice in the revelation that even
brilliant tunesmiths like Becker and Fagen (and Moulding) steal like rabid
weasels from the Beatles. Regularly. Habitually. Like recidivist
Twelve-Steppers with a family-sized bottle of Listerine.*

Consider that "Barrytown" is on a lot of minds right now because of its
appearance on the "Me, Myself and Irene" soundtrack. Consider also that we've
been told in Chalkhills that Colin says he had not in fact ever heard
"Barrytown" when he wrote "Joe." We really have no reason to doubt his word,
and I think it's not at all unreasonable to posit that both Barrytown and
SIFJ are "subconscious" lifts of "Tell Me What You See."

I wish we could exchange musical notation in this medium, the following would
be a lot easier, but let's try this on for size--the first melodic unit of
each song:

If you let me take your heart I will prove to you ("Tell Me What You See")

I'm not one to look behind I know that times must change ("Barrytown")

Joe called up to ask me would I do a favour while he's gonna be out of town

Two of those lines scan (and sing) nearly exactly the same. One isn't even
close. Which is the standout? "Joe," of course. It's similar, certainly. That
distinctive octave leap in the beginning is common to all three lines. But
SIFJ's lyric line is five measures long to the other songs' four, and dips
downward on the words "he's gonna be out," before ending on a different note
(the third rather than the tonic). But you're going to have to do much better
than "similar" to make a charge of plagiarism stick.

I think what really trips people up is the presence of the word "Standing" in
"Barrytown" right in the spot where familiarity with SIFJ dictates it should
be followed by "in for Joe"--but in fact goes on "standing by myself/Go play
with someone else" in a melodic line that doesn't resemble SIFJ in any way
whatever. And after that point, the rest of the verse melody is completely
different. In fact, if you write out the lyrics to SIFJ and Barrytown and do
a point-by-point melodic comparison (as I've done above with the first line)
you'll find that the two songs are quite different, despite their superficial

And, not at all coincidentally, those superficial similarities, those
elements that they share in common, all are found in "Tell Me What You See."
Furthermore, there are no similarities that the two songs share that *aren't*
in the Beatle song.


Now. George Harrison & "He's So Fine."

>Though I am not a copyright law expert, I would have to say that
>unfortunately, on the surface I see a potential lawsuit here.

I'm not a copyright law expert either, but the above page gives a pretty good
explanation of the matter. "My Sweet Lord's" vulnerability to accusations of
plagiarism lies in its simplicity. The lawsuit was based on the similarity of
the two phrases that are repeated throughout the song ("My sweet Lord"/"He's
so fine" and "Really want to see you"/"I don't know how I'm gonna do it") As
you can see from the site, both songs are built entirely around these two
simple phrases, and their similarity is undeniable.

Needless to say, this sort of thing is very remote from the
SIFJ/Barrytown/Tell Me What You See question. The similarities between these
three much more complex songs are quite tenuous, and the differences are
enormous. To get punished for stealing, you *really* have to steal.

>It's even more blatant than Colin's nicking of the "It's Only Love"
>(Beatles) melody for "The Good Things."


Once again, put the two songs next to each other. You'll find that the
similarity lies in exactly seven notes--half of the beginning phrase:

Though your heart desires the things that money can buy ("The Good Things")

I get high when I see you go by, my oh my ("It's Only Love")

There is no other similarity between the two songs whatsoever. They don't
share a tempo, a feel, a riff, or a chord sequence, and in lyrical content in
fact are diametrically opposite.

Seven notes in sequence do not a lift make, in a legal, moral, ethical or
even artistic sense.

Now get off Colin's back!

>An as for SH, the so-close-you-can-smell-it-and-it-DOES-smell Award is
>shared between SH and that shitty Third Eye Blind Song "Never Let You Go."
>It's the choice of sounds....Anyone who tells me that Andrew wasn't angling
>for today's teen radio hit market (not that there's anything wrong with
>that) with his production choices has got to really be "Third-Eye"

Once again: Arrrrrgh.

As the Bodhisattva Duncan Watt once observed, "You people would critic-size
the way Jesus dressed during the Second Coming."

Harrison "He's back, he's pissed, and he's WEARING VUITTON..." Sherwood

*Guilt-Avoidance Admission: "inspired" by Dennis Miller...


Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:16:50 +0100
From: "David Seddon" <>
Subject: I Dome believe it
Message-ID: <009a01c024e2$cf252220$008501d5@default>

James' views on the Dome had me disagreeing so strongly that  had to come
back on it:

>  and I found large parts of the Dome
disappointing - lowest common denominator appeared to be too high a target
to aim for. (e.g. the Work Zone was a big advert for the sponsor and four
large game tables (pac man - (yeah really)..., Table football, a maths quiz
- (oh god!) and a large version of one of those sliding 3x3 letter

IMO, very unfair comments, James.  Populist does not equal lowest common
denominator.  You can appeal to mass taste without following its worst
extremes.  The arts and sports are full of such examples (and Wasp Star is
maybe an attempt at it).  I saw little that was lowest common denominator,
unless you mean that a zone that deliberately appeals to and pleases kids
is, or a Zone (the sea-side one) that does a similar thing for OAPs is.
I didn't go in the work zone because I was told that it was one of a couple
that were a little uninspired (it was one of the ones Tony Blair most got
involved with).  There are sixteen. You've picked on the softest of target
as your example and extrapolated.  As I said, there's something for
everyone.  That one wasn't for me, either.  When I walk down the High
Street, I don't say it's no good because I wasted my time going into a
couple of shops that were boring.  I remember to avoid them the next time I
go to the High Street.  The zones which I went into were a lot of fun.

I disagree too with your views on the show.  I could believe that someone
mightn't find it their thing.  I could believe that someone might therefore
find it missable.  But I find it hard to believe that anyone could find such
a dramatic display of colour and well-coordinated aerial acrobatics
"excrutiating", unless they would find a carnival or a circus excrutiating
(I leave out valid arguments about animal welfare from the equation...that's
another argument).  Otherwise, I just don't see that view at all!

The one and only thing that I can agree on is that the designed played a
little safe. This is the result of design by committee.  I watched some tv
programmes on the design of the zones.  It was government committees that
watered some of the creative ideas down.  The designers wanted to be more
bold.  Despite this typical problem of a large scale public building, the
Dome is a success.  Yes it could have been better, but so could a lot of
things you care to mention.  It's not a Wonder of the World, but it is an
impressive piece of architecture and most of the contents make for a great
day out.

David agreed in general with my views on the Dome, which was a relief after
reading James' diatribe.  A nit-pick perhaps, David, but I didn't quite say
what you attribute to me :

>I do, however, have to take issue with his
assertion that the price of the Dome is worth foregoing the cost of
three fully-functional hospital wings, or 10 operating theatres, or
30,000 NHS beds, or 50 MRI scanners.

>It's all well and good having a great centre for the arts and
expanding the mind, but surely a LASTING legacy of the new millennium
would have been getting the homeless off the streets, making sure the
elderly can live with a degree of dignity, or ensuring that - after
4,500 years of human "progress", people weren't still dying on
trolleys in hospital corridors.

I wouldn't disagree for a minute, David.  All of those things are entirely
laudible and ought to be done.  I'll vote for anyone who promises them ...
well maybe not (Just) William Hague!.  It just seems spurious to me that
opponents of the Dome see fit to compare it to NHS money.  The two are not
mutually exclusive.  Why do they it compare to NHS funds unless it is to
make a point with cheap emotional pull?  You could do it with money spent on
almost anything (perhaps not education).  Eg...Why do people buy CDs or
spend it on other entertainments instead of giving all their spare cash to
charity?  Answer...because life has room to spend money on both and if we
didn't it would be a boring world with no art.

Oh well, after all this, perhaps I need to visit the Rest Zone again and get
my stress levels down.  Boy was that place relaxing in the whackiest of
See you at the Dome for a beer, James and David?

"When all things are considered,
 happiness is a far better indicator of success
 than success is of happiness."


End of Chalkhills Digest #6-275

Go back to the previous page.