Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #6-219

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 219

                 Wednesday, 2 August 2000


                   moulding or powell?
          And a goo goo go joob to you too, sir!
                   Overrated Beatles ?
                       I, Me, Miner
              When I go cleaning records...
                        Nose job?
              History just repeating itself?
              RE: I'm Loopy for the Violins
               Give me Colin Newman any day
                     Misheard lyrics
                      Thanks to All!
               How Could We Have Missed It?
                  WoMad RapGlad (no Xtc)
                      No, MEA Culpa


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If I could see you, I'd complain about the noise.


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:07:43 -0600
From: "Joseph Easter" <>
Subject: moulding or powell?
Message-ID: <000601bffb76$8ad08fa0$67730a3f@default>

Overheard in Philadelphia:

Maria Shriver: So, Colin, noone expected you to make it here at the
Republican National Convention...

C: Me above all else, love. Whoop-de-doo-de...

MS: (giggles) I know what you mean.

C: But all the fanfare, the pump and circumcision, the fantastic parade. who
would miss it? I can't miss this type of opportunity. It's very inspiring
for a writer.

MS: And you've got competition.

C: That's right. My partner has been keeping me in the dark for years and, I
have to tell you, it's getting dark in the cellar. Baby wants to come out.

MS: Go get 'em tiger. Now, this isn't your first time here. You were a
speaker in '88.

C: Uh-huh. My pal Jimmy Carter and I had a tad of a falling out and I
decided that it would be kind of a "fuck you" to show up here.

MS: Colin, when you talk like that it really turns me on.

C: Is that your hand on my leg?

MS: It can be if you want it to.

C: What about your husband? Isn't he here?

MS: He's here alright. Stuck in the closet, if you know what I mean.

C: Yeah, actually I thought I had come to the wrong type of convention when
I walked in the door. What's with the leather, anyway?

MS: I know! Hey, you ever watch South Park?

C: It's my favorite show! I mean, next to Falcon Crest...

MS: Oh my God, me too!!! Well you know that character who lives in the woods
and has the refuge for gay pets, Big Gay Al?

C: Duh.

MS: Well, guess who it's based on?!

C: No way!

MS: Way! (both laugh and snuggle a bit) Isn't your partner that guy from

C: Oh, no. I get asked that all the time. Really, and don't tell anyone
this, Andy and David are actually the same person.

MS: How did he ever nail that accent? I've heard, what's his name, Andy,
talk, and that guy needs some diction lessons.

C: Oh, it's not that hard.

MS: Oh yes it is, Colin! It's very hard. Speaking of diction...

C: Maria, let's finish the interview first.

MS: Right. So, what songs did '88 inspire?

C: Wardance for one. This year I'm looking at a good gun song. David, I mean
Andy, is all crazy for a kind of "Fuck the police!" song on our next album,
The Biggest Pouch. It's going to be all rap.

MS: Bitchin'...

C: I'm hoping to pick up some of the vibe on this side of the world about
the issue. Better to start with the apes.

MS: The Smartest Monkeys?

C: That's bad!

MS: I'm a bad girl. I may need a spanking...

Joseph Easter: There it is again, folks. Why would I lie?

Helpful Hints for Limies: Maria Shriver is the wife of Arnold
Scwartzenegger, a known homosexual. David Hyde Pierce plays Niles, Frazier's
brother, on a popular sitcom here. He looks a bit like AP. Philadelphia is
holding the Republican Nat. Convention and is a well known town where
Republicans can "cruise" for "like-minded" souls without fear of
discrimination. It is the city of *brotherly* love...What, me worry?


Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 02:00:16 EDT
Subject: And a goo goo go joob to you too, sir!
Message-ID: <>


>1. Beatles.  I know, start throwing the flaming spears.  They were a great
>band.  HOWEVER, they were overrated.  I believe many people were their fans
>just because they were popular.

Really?  You mean it?  You mean all these years I've wasted my time on what I
thought was perhaps the single biggest reason that there's any of this music
around to talk about?  God, I never even realized that I only liked them just
because they were popular!  I guess I should have stuck with unpopular
artists?  What a fool I've been!   Listen, whatever you do, don't tell Andy
and Colin this illusion busting secret - it'll crush them!  Oh, dear, what
ever will I do with all these records now?  I probably couldn't even give
them away if this gets out......

>I add this:  "The more you love music, the more music
>you love."
Right on!

 >Is there really any such thing as "bad" music?
Yes.  (Unless you're *one of the millions* who bought Seasons In The Sun.)

 >Or just an absence of "good" music?
That too.  It's a conspiracy!  Call Art Bell!  Quick!!!

>that quote of Andy Partridge's, "...don't listen to other people's
>stuff...". I concur.
Then why do you listen to XTC?

>Further, in Neil Young 's case there seems to be a huge gender divide,
>with the vast majority of Neil fans being male.

This is a really intriguing comment!  I have found almost the complete
I play acoustic and sing at parties, campfires, jams, so on...I find it's
mostly the women folk who ask me for a Neil Young tune!   Is this worthy of a
survey / thread?

 >Tracked down Radio Dinner and Lemmings much later on when I was
>into Lampoon (the magazine - does anyone else miss it?)

I was an avid collector from 1975 to about 1982.  Have most; unfortunately
lost my copy with the famous "buy this magazine or we'll shoot this dog"
cover - probably the most coveted by collectors.  When I was in college in
the mid to late seventies, we were blessed with the killer comedy combination
of Monty Python (just hitting American public TV), the original SNL, Second
City TV and Lampoon.  No one went out on Saturday nights unless we were
gigging!  All in the 60's afterglow of Firesign and George Carlin's early
classics.  Anyone remember when Steve Martin filled stadiums?  We had copies
of Radio Dinner and Lemmings floating around our parties.  Classic,
hysterical records!  That whole Toronto / SNL / Lampoon axis that was going
on made the seventies a truly golden era for comedy.  I laughed my way
through college!   Anyway, I have many Lampoons left.  Does anyone have
copies of Radio Dinner or Lemmings burned on CD?  I'd gladly pay!  Contact me
off line!  I have lots of rare Firesign Theater material if anyone's
interested.  Will trade!

>I have very vague memories of FireSign Theatre - something to do
>with the Giant Rat of Sumatra, A tale for which the world isn't ready.
>Help me out here.

I won't get into details, but here's a rough overview.
Firesign started as a combination of radio announcers and actors doing very
bizarre radio programs in and after college in LA in the mid 60's.  They
developed their style of strange skits with wild puns and social satire on
the radio.  To get a sense of their beginnings, get "Dear Friends", a
compilation of their radio skits redone for LP.  You will also hear the
beginnings of many of the characters and themes that they used in the later
classic LP's.

Their first 'made in the stuidio' LP was Waiting For The Electrician (Or
Someone Like Him).  It feature three ten minute satire skits on side one and
one long, bizarre adventure on side two (which was the "title" cut).  This
amazing piece led to the eventual through-composed album length jaw droppers
that they eventually produced.
The next album was How Can You Be In Two Places At Once, which followed the
same format; the bizarre title cut taking up one side, while the unrelated
side two filler was the hysterical homage to old radio detective shows, the
Adventures of Nick Danger.  The next two are considered their classics, Don't
Crush That Dwarf, Hand Me The Pliers and I Think We're All Bozo's On This Bus
(my personal favorite).
Both of those were one contiunous madcap adventure, containing much of their
most familiar material.  Bozos is especially astounding because of the
computer hacking theme, some 15 - 20 years ahead of it's time!  The next
album was the one you mentioned, The Giant Rat Of Sumatra, which was a
brilliant sendup of Sherlock Holmes.  Loaded with outrageous puns.  ("It's a
simple head code!  Any English schoolboy could catch it!")  The villian - The
Electrician!!!  Ha Ha!  Firesign cross-referenced themselves more than any
artists I know.  Later came the underrated Everything You Know Is Wrong and
it's follow up, In The Next World You're On Your Own.  Some others followed,
like Fighting Clowns and Fireside Chat, but their edge and popularity
slipped.  Numerous solo records were done.  Some were brilliant (Phil
Austin's Roller Maidens from Outer Space,  Proctor & Bergman's TV or Not TV),
some mediocre (David Ossman's Mark Time).  They've done various odd projects,
and an occasional reunion.  Last year's Give Me Immortality Or Give Me Death
approaches the greatness of their prime, IMHO.

If any of you are into checking them out, I highly recommend you get their
recordings in order of release to help build your sense of the continuum of
their works.  Each album up to "In The Next World..." led into the next,
often intentionally (the exception being Giant Rat, which stands on it's
own).  You'll begin to see how they developed a satiric mirror society
populated with characters and bizarre social groups, used to parody modern
life.  If you jump in the middle of their works, you might get lost in all
the seemingly arcane references and puns and not pick up on the thread of
their satire, which you really need to do to fully enjoy them.  Just like
great musical artists (such as XTC - sneaky, ain't I?) their records require
repeated listenings to enjoy all the nuance of their work.

But if that seems like too much work, then go buy a Tupac CD.  You won't even
have to worry about dealing with a melody!   (doh!)  :-)


"Ma Rainie's Mole Skin Cookies!  Eat 'em, wipe 'em off, and eat 'em again!"
(A radio ad from Dear Friends)


Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:28:49 +0900
From: "John Boudreau" <>
Subject: Overrated Beatles ?
Message-ID: <006801bffb9c$a7d53120$795791d2@johnboud>

Somebody on this list v. recently said that The Beatles were overrated
...From 1964-1967 name me ONE rock/pop band who were more prolific ;
innovative ; and influenced more people ! The Beatles changed the bloody
world ! How the hell can anybody in his right mind say they were overrated ?

Bob Dylan WAS overrated . There - I said it !
OOOOOO.... I can feel those flame throwers burning my arse/ass now .

" Masumi ! Where's the soy sauce and the wasabi ? "



Date: 1 Aug 2000 11:32:00 +0100
From: "Robert Wood" <>
Subject: Release
Message-ID: <>
Organization: Mutech Ltd

Smudge said:

>> ff Thomas' posting in 6-209 was excellent - lots of good points well
made etc . . . however . . . I would disagree with one teenie tiny point.
I think Dire Straits actually peaked with thier second release - Makin'
Movies. <<

Er, actually Making Movies was their third release, old boy. And anyway,
they peaked with Love Over Gold. ;-)



Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:57:04 +0200
Subject: I, Me, Miner
Message-ID: <0006800028479288000002L082*@MHS>

Hi "Kreideberger",

I'd just like to join in with the others to say a big THANKS to Derek Miner
for the fab job he did of transferring "Jules Verne's Sketchbook" to CD for
us rabid bootleg and demo-hunting fans.  It's fun to listen to, fun to look
at, and great to own.  It's just more proof (as if we needed any) that
Chalkhills is a great place.

Now will somebody please give Derek "The Bull With the Golden Guts" or
whatever it's called, and hope that he is motivated by all this praise to
give that one the MinerWerks treatement, too!




Date: 1 Aug 2000 12:19:00 +0100
From: "Robert Wood" <>
Subject: When I go cleaning records...
Message-ID: <>
Organization: Mutech Ltd

Derek said:

>> After living dangerously with my vinyl, I actually picked up some
>> supplies to clean my records properly before playing them. <<

You might think this is a load of old crap - I certainly did when I was
first told it - but you should not clean records (at least if they have
regulation crap on them). To explain:

Every time you run one those velvet or brush things over your record, you
just smear the dirt across the record and end up scratching it. If you have
a decent record deck like a Linn LP12, with a good stylus, then every time
you play the record the stylus will dig the dirt out and you'll see a
gradual improvement in sound quality. You can then clean the *stylus* as
and when it gets bunged up with dirt, fluff etc. If you then store your
records in a good anti static sleeve, the Nagoka sleeves are very good,
you'll then find that you never pick any more dirt on your stylus or your
records. I never have to clean either these days and I hardly ever get a
crackle or pop on my albums either.

If you buy a record second hand and it's got a splodge of jam or something
on it, you can try taking it to somewhere that's got a Keith Monks record
cleaner, apparently they're very good.

>> I also discovered a new vinyl copy of AV1 among a bin of old stuff. A
bit pricey at US$18, but I had to have it. Anyway, I'd love to hear some
comments from people about the "feel" of the original vinyl LPs versus the
CD remasters of albums up through "Big Express." As mentioned before BE
doesn't really sound as good as it could on CD, and I'd love to hear a good
vinyl copy. <<

I'm so pleased that every XTC record has been released on vinyl - it makes
me laugh the way all these remastered albums appear from time to time. They
still sound inferior to vinyl because of the inherent problems with CDs,
but are a great marketing tool to fool the gullible. Maybe, just maybe when
CDs have a much, much higher sampling rate and an improved resolution, then
they'll be worth bothering with.


Date: 1 Aug 2000 12:37:00 +0100
From: "Robert Wood" <>
Subject: Nose job?
Message-ID: <>
Organization: Mutech Ltd

Debs said:

>> Another highly entertaining post, Mr. Lawson.. like backing into a hot
stove, stark naked..  painful AND humiliating.. and it sure leaves an
impression!  Thank you sir, may we have another?

Debora Brown <<

Sure that's not Deborah Brown-Nose?! <BG>


Date: 1 Aug 2000 12:31:00 +0100
From: "Robert Wood" <>
Subject: History just repeating itself?
Message-ID: <>
Organization: Mutech Ltd

Annamaria said:

>> The paragraph that caught me:
"The kind of popular music created by 'N Sync and Britney Spears is an
aberration in the history of music ..." Take if from there, Chalkies. <<

Isn't that just what oldies said about the Beatles when they came along?
OK, I'm not claiming the above are in the same league as the Beatles, but
I'm always reticent about slagging new music, I bet there was music that we
loved growing up that yougsters thought was terrffic that other people
thought was an abomination.

It's a sign of getting old when we diss music like this, there's room for
all sorts of music; if people like a song or a group then it's good. For
them it's good, therefore it's good. For goodness' sake how many people do
we know that think XTC are shite? We know otherwise, but who are we to say
just because *we* like it, that's what's good and acceptable? Britney
Spears is no worse than the Osmonds, Bay City Rollers, Partidge Family (no
relation <g>) etc that many of us listened to when we were growing
up. She'll have her few years of fame and then fade away like all of these
teeny poppers. It's been like that for forty odd years, it's the way
(hopefully) it'll always be, unless we get the music police who will decree
what we are and are not allowed to listen to.


Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:09:46 -0700
From: Peter Fitzpatrick <>
Subject: RE: I'm Loopy for the Violins
Message-ID: <B9B4268C8F87D11195DC0000F840FABE12AF7A10@DUB-MSG-02> wrote:

But what I'm hearing now from several knowledgeable folks in Chalkhills,
this is not at all my understanding of how River of Orchids was finally
executed.  There's a great difference between carefully correcting slight
errors in tempo, and just picking the best orchestral phrase and setting
it to loop for the duration of the song. My understanding is that River of
Orchids was "corrected," not "looped." You guys seem to imply otherwise.

I wasn't there, so I don't know: Which is it?

I was there at the recording and spoke to Andy about it at some point after
they had mixed.
They used ProTools to re-align out-of-sync phrases. Nothing too drastic.
I'm not sure if any phrases were dumped though if that's the case it was
only one or two.



Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:35:52 +0100
Subject: Give me Colin Newman any day
Message-ID: <>


In #6-210 Mark Elliott reacted:

> Someone mentioned that GARY NUMAN's only good release was with Tubeway
Army...yer joking right??? <

Twas me, and no

> Who do you think Tubeway Army WAS??? <

I am well aware that Gary was the main protaganist in TA, so perhaps you'd
prefer it if I'd simply said that he'd not produced anything decent since

> Gary Numan changed the face of music with his inovations in synth <

That he may have done, but I find much of it unlistenable (although I am
happy to admit that I don't have any of the recent albums, since I gave up
after a while, so my experience of that era is limited to a couple of 'best
of' compilations).

> He is still going strong and I demand you take it back Mr.!!! <


In #6-212 Stephanie Takeshita reported, of the Hound guide entry for XTC:

> Listed as being influenced by XTC: [...] The Buzzcocks, Wire  <

Hmmm, I'm not normally up on those sort of things, but I would have thought
that both were contempories and therefore unlikely to have XTC as serious
influences. Is this based on comments by members of the respective bands or
just someone's subjective opinion??

(Oh, and Stephanie, do I take it that you read the digest via the web
pages, because it is only that version that has the email addresses
adulterated to protect the guilty)

In #6-213 (and again in #6-215, strange to say) Rory Wilsher commented:

> In revenge, I will merely mention the name Bucks Fizz <

Better known by their spoonerism, of course

In #6-214 MJC suggested a new thread:

> What pop/rock artist, that you like (almost?) as much as XTC, sounds the
most different from XTC? <

Billy Bragg, Roy Harper and Nick Drake would all count, I reckon, and I
love 'em all

and Tom Kingston stated:

> I'm probably the biggest S & G / Simon fan on this list, so I'm biased <

Oh, come off it Tom, that's playground (playground, careful what you say
ground) level stuff. I'm a bigger fan than you are?? What utter tosh. FWIW
S&G were the first non-classical artists that I ever sat down and listened
to (as opposed to simply hearing in the background, on the radio, or
whatever) and I still love, and listen to, all of those original albums, as
well as most of Paul's solo stuff, including Graceland which I consider to
be a real gem irrespective of the political connotations (so we are mostly
in agreement, irrespective of the size of our fandom). I consider myself a
'big fan' but I'd never consider my opinion of them any more or less valid
because of that. Might I suggest that if you didn't keep pumping yourself
up so much that others might take your pronouncements a little more
seriously?? You obviously care deeply about music, and I guess that ought
to be enough, so perhaps I'm being too harsh

Another random Wasp Star observation:

A while back there was a discussion regarding the adulterous nature of the
lyrics for 'Standing In For Joe', with some criticism of the song on that
basis. Don't see it meself, not in the least because I hear no actual
reference to Joe being married. Whilst nicking your best mate's girl might
be considered a less than wholesome act, it is something that happens all
around the world and it isn't exactly illegal or immoral in most cultures,

Cheers, Steve

NP: The Gist - Embrace The Herd


Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: NickJeri Santangelo <>
Subject: Misheard lyrics
Message-ID: <>

New subscriber to the list (hi all!), so I thought I'd
wade in just at the shallow end with something

Misheard lyrics ARE fun to do, I've got a few of my

First, not misheard but misinterpreted: that John
Fogerty song, inexplicably (to me) named
"Centerfield."  Couldn't sort out what the song was
about, but when he sang "Put me in coach..." I
thought, "AHAH! It's about air travel!"  Not a
baseball fan.

And I recall my niece once belting out the Police's
immortal, "Canary in a Coma."

Bye for now.



Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:47:59 EDT
Subject: Thanks to All!
Message-ID: <>

Until I subscribed to Chalkhills just a few weeks ago, I'd never heard of
Kevin Gilbert. Since then, I've seen nothing but extreme praise for this
musician and especially for Shaming of the True in your postings. Figuring
that XTC fans must know what they're talking about when they say this album
is unbelievable, I took a leap of faith and ordered it from the Kevin
Gilbert web site (couldn't find it anywhere else).

The CD arrived yesterday, and I just want to express my sincerest thanks.
I can't explain why this music is hitting me as hard as it is, but I know
that all you who have already heard it understand.

Amy N.


Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:55:44 +0100 (BST)
From: Rory Wilsher <>
Subject: How Could We Have Missed It?
Message-ID: <>

Chalk people

Harrison Sherwood had the gall to quote the entire
lyric of "I've Never Been to Me" in the bad record
stakes. Fair do's. Pretty appalling. I raise you...

Lady In Red - Chris De Burgh

Rory"Good fights about big things" Wilsher


Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:11:38 -0700
From: "Hiatt, Randy" <>
Subject: WoMad RapGlad (no Xtc)
Message-ID: <F34536084B78D311AF53009027B0D7EAE3DA93@FSBEX01>

Did WOMAD all 3 days... really cool, unbelievable, even after my 3rd year

I heard world music influenced by the West and Western music influenced by
the world (you know what I mean).

The funniest part was an African (Senegal) band, Positive Black Soul doing
Rap, they had a record scratcher, hand percussionists, 2-3 vocalists doing
the typical call and answer thing, bass, guitar and stuff  (yep no drumset).
What struck me was their message of love and family.  How many rap songs
have "I love you" in them around here?  What a hoot!

Randy (drum circle addict) Hiatt


Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:35:07 -0700
From: Ed Kedzierski <>
Subject: No, MEA Culpa
Message-ID: <>

Don't worry friends, this is likely my last jab at the whole rap/techno/prog
thread (unless I just have to reply to something...)

In 6-216, Jim Allen very graciously replied to my post replying to his post
on rap, techno, prog, etc.-
		>After I read the digest that my post showed up in, I
realized I could have phrased things much better.
As did I upon reading my post.

And you said:
		Er, I mentioned some rap records I really liked, some of my
favorite prog records, some punk records and a bunch of techno/ambient
artists I like all in one post.  Doesn't that count?  Did I use the wrong
format for this list?
You're quite right; I was focusing on one part of your post, forgetting
about another. Sorry about that. But let's not waste time going "after you"
"no, after you" like two overly polite animated gophers...

I did get a little defensive, partly because I do feel a certain degree of,
well, let's call it guilt, over the fact that I'm nowhere near as in touch
as I once was with what's going on (the whole "loss of community/avenues of
exposure" thing I went on about applies, but for my failure to replace this
with investigations via various online resources, etc. I can blame nothing
but my own laziness and impatience with online multimedia bandwidth/speed
issues, players which make you download an upgrade every 10 minutes, etc.).

Thanks for the recommendations: I'll try to check out what I can.
A couple of things you listed:
"Usually the album that even prog haters can grudgingly accept" in reference
to King Crimson's "Red". I think this applies to this band in general. Even
at my most anti-prog (don't worry, you don't need to defend the genre to me
at this point; I've had too many good friends whose opinions I respect who
are prog-heads, not to mention various people on this list) I've always
quite liked KC, although I do need to do something about their lack of
representation in my own collection (almost wore the grooves through on a
friend's "Disclipline"). There's a sense of play and open possibility to
their stuff that sometimes seems lacking (to me) in a lot of, er, "trad
prog". And unlike a number of prog bands, I don't think that KC ever did
anything that now seems pretentious or embarassing (like Wakeman's
"historical" stuff, etc.)

As I mentioned, I learned to quite like Tangerine Dream from the friend I
referred to (and I appreciate the usually "song-length" size of a lot of
their pieces).

I LOVE "Little Fluffy Clouds", even more after I read the story on the
source of the Ricky Lee Jones interview that it uses (wasn't there some
legal problem? Is this version still available, or just a voiceless edit?
That would suck...). I'm glad to know which album it's from - thanks!

A lot of early rap and, uh, let's call it "proto-techno" that I used to like
seemed to have a much more fun and playful attitude in regards to sampling
than seems to be the case lately (as always, I acknowledge that I may not be
hearing the right stuff; feel free to correct me and cite the relevant
material). I never seem to hear the "non musical audio" (spoken bits from
movies, noises & sound effects, etc.) snippets anymore that used to lurk in
the corners and make things so much fun. On the rap side, songs like Eric B
and Rakim's "Paid in Full" had all that "this is a journey into sound" "the
music just turns me on" stuff that I really miss in the stuff I hear now. Is
this just a result of the legal climate surrounding sampling, making people
more inhibited in regards to just playing with this kind of stuff, or just a
change in trends?
As I said in my other post:
I used to l quite like a lot of rap (especially Public Enemy and De La
Soul), but I really miss the stuff with all sorts of samples (musical and
otherwise) exploding in every direction... Now, if I hear that slower,
shuffly beat that seems to have taken over accompanied by one continuing
sample that sort of oozes around it (one thing that puts me off in Snoop
Dogg's stuff), I tend to switch off...
Does anybody know what I mean here? (didn't get a response before and I just
want to know if I'm making any sense...)

Some of my favourite "proto-techno" (a term I'm using because, well, really,
is it that necessary to invent a new genre label every single time someone
comes up with the slightest variation?) stuff was all samples (on primitive
early samplers), much of it not even from musical sources, put together in
an almost violently clashing way, and with a real sense of play. That sense
of play is very important to me, especially when it comes to more
technology-dominated music and art: I mean, wanking should never be a chore,
which I think distinguishes wanky things I like from wanky things I dislike.
And should anyone claim that they've never liked anything that is wanky in
any way, then I think the same rule applies here as applies to literal
wanking: 98% of the population do it, the other 2% are lying...
(for that matter, why is "wanker" still an insult, when everyone agrees that
it's perfectly healthy and normal?)

Another "proto-techno/whatever" band I used to enjoy "back in the day" was
some of Cabaret Voltaire's early stuff...

One last question, Jim, which still hasn't been answered: just which
category does that Propellerheads album I liked fall into? And what did you
think of it?

Is "industrial" even a term that's used any more?

Thanks - I couldn't have asked for a better reply to my points. I'm happy
that so many of the debates I've been involved in recently have had such
civilized outcomes - it is possible, folks!

XTC content: I still find it funny that so many people pointed to "We're All
Light" as some kind of attempt at "nowness" due to all the supposedly
"trendy" tech tricks, which a lot of people cited as signs of influence from
very recent stuff (Cypress Hill, techno, etc.), when a lot of these sounds
(the samply drum bit, etc.) have been around going back at least 10 or 15
years. These sounds could just as easily have shown up on O&L, as far as
technology and the fact that they were as available as any other sounds used
on that album are concerned (obviously they don't, I'm just saying that
that's strictly because of production decisions taken, not because it would
have been technologically impossible). As I said before, I loved the use of
these sounds in such a poppy song, which reminds me of a time when there
seemed to be a lot more cross-fertilization going on between genres (at
least in terms of cross-fertilization that's imaginative and fun). In the
days when I used to go out dancing (where's the glass with my teeth, you
little shits!), we'd get a wide variety of postpunk-proto-alterna-pop
(sorry), industrial, rap, etc., and I didn't think in terms of clashing
genres, etc. Just that I liked songs like "Channel Zero" etc. (who did that,
anyway?) which I wouldn't come across nowadays without having to make a big
effort outside of my main areas of interest. Genres seem to keep getting
more and more insular all the time, and the general assumption that people
won't sit through so much as one song outside their niche just helps to make
them that way.

Damn this pressure to come up with a clever sign-off...
Ed K.


End of Chalkhills Digest #6-219

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