Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #6-218

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 218

                 Wednesday, 2 August 2000


                        Thank You
            Paul Simon, Savior of South Africa
                       A guy thing?
 like (almost?) as much as/sounds the most different from
                   Deteriorating voices
       Oops, I'm Being Oops Post-Oops-Modern! Oops!
                     Hitchin a shirt
                  Down On The Waterline
                   Twistin' by the Paul
             1971 - it was a very good year.
               Misheard Lyrics & Rap CD's.
               I hear the passengers scream
              I've never been to her, either
                    Stand and deliver!
                   thistle and shamrock
        re: Matters of genitalia. Zero XTC content
                     Swans and others
                   RE: Misheard Lyrics


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Did you think that I would / Help but dance for your piece of paper?


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:56:33 +0100 (BST)
From: Rory Wilsher <>
Subject: Thank You
Message-ID: <>

Thanks to everyone who helped me out with Nick Drake.
Way To Blue is on its way.

Rory "But they're fun to have around" Wilsher


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Brown" <>
Subject: Paul Simon, Savior of South Africa
Message-ID: <>

> It is also my feeling that Paul did more for the elimination of apartheid
> than his hypocritcal naysayers ever did.  Smashing the barriers of
> ignorance with sweet music!  The dream of the sixties counterculture!  He
> did it!  And to boot, contrary to the allegations of the reality
> alteration in my contender's comments, that album did not rely on the
> controversy for it's GREATNESS.

Oh so it wasnt Economic Sanctions, an impeding widespread civil war, de
Clerk's forethought that endded apartheid?  Give me a fucking break! Paul
Simon is talented.  But Paul Simon is fucking asshole! Hey he slapped
Princess Leia around! Grrrr!

Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA
BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01
"I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison


Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 07:53:05 EST
From: "Iain Murray" <>
Subject: A guy thing?
Message-ID: <>

>From: "Duncan Kimball" <>
>Subject: Hey, hey, my, my ...
>Further, in Neil Young 's case there seems to be a huge gender divide,
>with the vast majority of Neil fans being male. I'm only going on
>anecdotal evidence, of course, but I know of few women who like either >his
>music or his voice. My wife, who has VERY broad musical tastes, >doesn't
>like him at all. She says it's "a boy thing". My friend Phil >is a HUGE
>fan, but his wife won't even let him listen to Neil young >while she's in
>the house!  (Personally, I'd be asking for a divorce).

My wife and I have come to a compromise about our respective music tastes -
I don't play Bob Dylan, Neil Young or Willie Nelson when she's in the house,
and she doesn't play Enya, The Cranberries or The Pretenders when I'm
around. We found it was cheaper than filing for divorce.

>Another tangent: Neil seems to be one of the very few 60s rockers still
>seen as consistently producing credible, engaging music that reaches a
>wide section of the public, meets with general critical success and is
>well regarded by younger musicians (e.g. the hero-worshipping from >Pearl
>Jam).  Admittedly he did have a bit of a "dwahl" in the 80s (and >I'm not
>even gonna touch CSNY)

Hey, "Deja Vu" was a great album! What's the problem?

>but you get my drift. Similarly, Lou >has had his ups and downs, but >has
>produced consistently interesting >work and, after an inevitable >lull,
>came back really strongly in the >late 80s / early 90s. E.g. I >would
>certainly rate "New York" or "Songs >For Drella" as being as >good as any
>of his earlier works.

....or better by several country miles, if you're comparing to "Berlin" or
"Metal Arsehole Music".

>Zimmy, however -- and this IS a personal view -- seems to have >gradually
>slipped away from us. I have not heard anything of his (with >the solitary
>exception of "Series of Dreams" or whetever it was) that >comes anywhere
>near the standard he maintained through the 60s and >early 70s. "Street
>Legal" was the last great Bob Dylan record for me.

Dunno how much you've heard of his '80s output (admittedly, a lot of it was
damn near unlistenable), but there are a few gems scattered throughout - "Oh
Mercy" leaps instantly to my mind. At the time, it was (at least, IMO) his
strongest album since "Blood On The Tracks", and "Time Out Of Mind" is even
better. It shows that he has the capacity to reinvent himself as a great
modern blues singer.

>(I am often reminded of
>an old National Lampoon jibe, which cited Dylan as proof that we are >only
>given a limited number of good ideas.)

National Lampoon itself only serves to confirm this idea.

>From: "Smith, David" <>
>Subject: Re: The great catch up, vlume 2
>Paul Culnane asked if anyone on this forum knew what vee Tube was
>talking about. Paul, I don't think Vee even knows what Vee's talking

I know, but I'm not telling.

>Jeff Thomas' posting in 6-209 was excellent - lots of good points well
>made etc . . . however . . . I would disagree with one teenie tiny >point.
>I think Dire Straits actually peaked with thier second release >- Makin'

Wasn't that their third?...oh shit, I'm in a Dire Straits debate!

XTC Content: I played two tracks from "Wasp Star" on my radio show last
week. The switchboard completely failed to light up.


"I believe there is a commonality to humanity. We all suck." -- Bill Hicks


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:32:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tyler Hewitt <>
Subject: like (almost?) as much as/sounds the most different from
Message-ID: <>

>What pop/rock artist, that you like (almost?) as much as XTC, sounds the
>most different from XTC?

Lambert, Hendricks & Ross.
Do they qualify as pop?


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:58:27 -0700
From: Ed Kedzierski <>
Subject: Deteriorating voices
Message-ID: <>

In 6-213, Jeff Eason said:
		Another possible list could be for vocalists whose
instruments have deteriorated over time. David Bowie, Joni Mitchell, Van
Morrison, John Cale and Ian Anderson would all be on my list of vocalists
whose voices I once loved but can now hardly stand to hear. I'm exaggerating
somewhat, so play nice when you defend the honor of your favorite musician
who popped up on this list.
What about Jagger? I recall seeing Bowie on TV not long ago (within the last
year, anyway) and thinking that his voice was in a lot better shape than the
croak that Jagger's been using in live situations for several years now.
Granted, Bowie was on a small TV stage (SNL, I think), and I've only seen
footage of live Stones stuff (I won't pay those kinds of prices to see
anybody, short of "hell freezes over" situations like you-know-who touring
or artists who have been literally brought back from the dead...), but Bowie
at least seems capable of "covering" his old self reasonably well, as
opposed to the Stones live approach of "as long as the main riff is more or
less recognizable, Mick can get away with bellowing out the occasional key
word in a monotone croak" (as far as I can tell).

Was that "Satisfaction"?
No, I think it was "Under My Thumb".
Actually it was "Honky Tonk Women" - I swear he just said "Then she blew my
mind". I think.
No, wait...
Ed K.

PS: as far as Dylan goes, the only problem I've ever had with his voice is
that I can't help laughing during the entire "Nashville Skyline" album, as I
just can't help thinking of the character "Grover" from "Sesame Street".


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:55:17 +0100 (BST)
From: Rory Wilsher <>
Subject: Oops, I'm Being Oops Post-Oops-Modern! Oops!
Message-ID: <>


Derek Miner picked up on my Britney "singing the same
song twice" thang thusly:

>I started to wonder how intentional this was, because
>the first time I heard the song, it *included*
>samples of "Baby Hit Me One More Time."  They even
>threw in bits of "Drive Me Crazy" for good measure.
>So is this little Britney's attempt at some

Two questions (and I'm not being sarcastic here, I
really want to know):

1. Is Ms Spears that much in control of her output?
2. Is she that clever?

Or is this just a case of some clever (nay,
post-modern?) record company exec thinking, in his
(it's usually a him) incredible, original way, "Yep,
that tune worked before, let's see if they notice the
difference"? Would it make it the first time something
like this has happened? Cast your vote here. The
winner will receive a signed copy of "Oops, I did it
again". Second prize, TWO signed copies... (sorry, I
like this joke)

Glad to see that there are some college graduates out
there who can think for themselves. Wanna job? I'm

One for Tom below:

Rory "I hear much support for the monarchy" Wilsher


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:58:25 EDT
Subject: Hitchin a shirt
Message-ID: <>

Hill kids,
 3 points:
   1. David Smith said:
   hits: Billy Don't Be A Hero, The Night Chicago Died, The Black
Eyed Boys and Hitchin A Ride.
   Hitchin a Ride was by Vanity Fare & dont knock it. Its one of my all time
   2. I received my sweatshirt & t-shirt from Phil Corless. Excellent job!!!
I cant wait to wear them.
   3. Lay off vee tube.
              Thats all. Roger
  p.s.  Wasp Star is QUICKLY becoming my all time favorite album EVER.


Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 07:56:49 +0900
From: "John Boudreau" <>
Subject: Down On The Waterline
Message-ID: <000201bffb42$a7514e00$795791d2@johnboud>

David Smith wrote :

>I think Dire Straits actually peaked with thier second release - >Makin'

The 2nd Dire Straits album was entitled " Communique " and not Makin' Movies
( third ) . It was an excellent follow up to the utterly great first album "
Dire Straits " .



Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 18:54:34 -0400
From: Gary <>
Subject: Twistin' by the Paul
Message-ID: <p04320404b5abad0679dc@[]>

SmudgeBoy wrote:

"Paul Simon - ...Can't understand it meself - distinct lack of
quality control."

Read somewhere that Paul records and releases every song he writes,
so if he has an album to do, he writes 12 songs and that's it. Guess
that's why there aren't many "bonus" tracks out there. And I guess if
one turns out to be crap, he records it anyway..."we'll fix it in the

I agree that Graceland is wildly overrated...

He also wrote:

"I think Dire Straits actually peaked with thier second release -
Makin' Movies."

I agree that side one of Makin' Movies was the absolute peak of Dire
Straits, I'm obliged to point out it was their third album (they
defined "sophomore slump" with "Communique").  "Twistin' by the Pool"
was their best single though...Terry Williams is the best!

And Derek Miner sez:

"Anyway, I'd love to hear some
comments from people about the "feel" of the original vinyl LPs
versus the CD remasters of albums up through "Big Express."

My favorite version of English Settlement is the tape I made from the
original (abbreviated) UK CD, to which I tacked on the missing songs
from my vinyl copy, plus the live cuts from "Live and More"... Maybe
it's all the listening at top volume in heavy traffic, but this tape
seems to sound better than my Geffen CD of the complete ES.

BTW, it's frustrating to know I've bought ES at least three times,
and Andy & Co. have probably received "Sweet F.A." from Mr. Branson.

Something I'll bet has been addressed, but I know not where... does
anyone know if Andy and Colin have/had "day jobs" at all, or have
they been able to make a living as XTC all these years?  I just hope
they're getting their due with TVT and a decent royalty rate, worthy
of, well, pop royalty!


"It feels better being an unemployed musician than being an
unemployed pipefitter..."


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:34:02 -0500
From: "Marcus Padgett" <>
Subject: 1971 - it was a very good year.
Message-ID: <>

Allow me to converge several threads in a flashback to 1971. At 12 years old
I had been listening to pop for many years.

But first an aside - First purchased album: age 7 - Paul Revere and the
Raiders. Flash ahead to a few years ago. My sister hangs out with Paul
Revere in Vegas - discribes him as a geriatric coke-head fop.

Back to '71. I'm at that age (12) where music is starting to have an

Columbia Music Club. 12 albums for 1 cent. Chicago Transit Authority had a
big influence on me.

Tenant with a big record collection. Jesus Christ Superstar strikes me.
Music for 12 year olds. Later in life recognize Andrew Lloyd Weber as
musical AntiChrist.

Bad 70's music thread. In my heavy rotation was "Timothy" by the Bouys -
trapped in a mine cave in - we got really hungry - what ever happened to

Also in heavy rotation - Bee Gees pre-disco "Lonely Days" .

Black Sabbath. Must learn to play instrument. Must buy black light posters.
Must play music. Must form band. Must be like Ozzie. What's that funny smell
coming from my sisters room?


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:35:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Radios In Motion <>
Subject: Misheard Lyrics & Rap CD's.
Message-ID: <383987878.965090145504.JavaMail.root@web185-iw>

Ok, my worse misheard lyric was a song by The Smiths "I started something
I couldn't finish."

Don't laugh.  I thought the chorus was "To the boomie, to the boomie, to
the boomie I started...."

My wife is almost as bad.  Recently we were listening to "Fanatic" by
Felony and she thought it was "def-inatic" meaning some take on the old
rap slang!  She still does not let me forget the Typical me thing

Oh, anyone interested in listing to some good Rap, I will make a
compilation CDR of some songs from different groups just so you will have
a chance to listen to some of the good aspects of Rap.  Its no trouble as
I have all my CD"s backed up on my computer.  All I would want in return
is a few dollars to cover my costs and shipping.  Really anything you
would be willing to send.  I have done the same thing for a friend who was
a Rap fan because he thought all other music sucked.  He ended up liking a
lot of other music because of it.  I actually put that sorta mock rap song
that XTC did on the Dub album :)


Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:46:12 +1000 (EST)
From: Mark <>
Subject: I hear the passengers scream
Message-ID: <>

> From:
> What pop/rock artist, that
> you like (almost?) as much as XTC, sounds the most different from XTC?
> I'll start the bidding with Graham Parker.

Never heard of him. What's the one-line oversimplifying summary?

For my money, it'd have to be Tom Waits though. If XTC is a playground,
Tom Waits is a decrepit circus, and the clowns aren't just scary, they're

swings and roundabouts...


Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:34:09 EDT
Subject: I've never been to her, either
Message-ID: <>

Harrison, you have hit the nail squarely on the head. "I've Never Been to
Me!" I had dammed that one up firmly in the far reaches of my mind, and you
had to go pull the plug. At about 12 or 13, I babysat regularly at a home in
which that 45 was a permanent fixture on the turntable, and I became obsessed
with it. It was almost like the morbid fascination with a car wreck or Fox's
"When Good Pets Go Bad." Was it Melanie? Just so you know, I'll be cursing
you tonight as I lie in bed awake unable to make it stop running through my

Amy N.


Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 02:59:34 GMT
From: "Duncan Kimball" <>
Subject: Stand and deliver!
Message-ID: <>

An open letter to Phillip Kennicott

Kennicott's Washington Post article on Mass Culture typifies the
short-sighted, selfish and hypocritical viewpoint that sees Napster as
some sort of counter-culture knight-in-shining-armour, riding forth to
lance the bloated hide of Corporate America, thereby freeing The Music for
The People.

What a load of bollocks!

I'll address just a few of his glaring logical and factual errors:

Napster steals from ALL artists. Regardless of whether you are Britney
Spears, with sales in the tens of milions, or XTC, with sales in the tens
of thousands, Napster steals your music and illegally offers it free of
charge to anyone with the facility to download it. They gleefully flaunt
the International Copyright Convention and trample on the basic right of
hard-working musicians to earn a fair living.

Folk music is not popular music. Popular music is a phenomenon of modern
industrial/urban culture. Folk music was and is primarily an isolated,
localised rural phenomenon. There was not one kind of folk music, nor is
there one kind of popular music. Both are heterogenous and
diverse. Popular music did not replace folk music. It is an entirely new
cultural product for a new cultural situation.

The Internet will not create a new kind of global "folk" music. It will
not liberate the oppressed or feed the hungry. It is and will always be
primarily a tool of the military/industrial complex, a means to sell
industrial products and control information. Any socially beneficial uses
it might be turned to are purely coincidental and must be fought for and
protected. It behooves all of us to remember that it began as a system for
sharing US strategic military and scientific information and protecting it
from nuclear strikes. The Internet and computers are available only to the
most affluent, and while they number in the millions, they represent only
a tiny fraction of the world's population, most of whom still do not have
access even to electricity or clean water, let alone Napster.

Kennicott's peurile nostalgia for "the good old days' of down-home,
folksy, music craft and the diginity of craft labour is wildly
disingenuous and ignores the historical realities and the massive changes
in music-making in the 19th, 20th and 21st centuries. His assertion that
N'Sync and Britney Spears are aberrations is simply laughable. They are no
more aberrant than were Liszt, Vivaldi, Handel or any of the other music
"stars" of the past.  The phenomenon of The Star Performer goes back to
the very beginnings of urban society, as any high-school history student
can tell you -- there were "stars" even among the gladiators of ancient
Rome. The global music corporations have been mass-marketing 'pop' idols
from the day that the gramophone hit the stores, beginning with Caruso,
moving on through Rudy Vallee, Mario Lanza, Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra,
Presley, The Beatles and on to the stars of today

Kennicott's most sinister implication -- that Napster represents some
morally legitimate form of revolutionary, anti-corporate underdog piracy
-- betrays the essential cynicism of his argument. "Napster" he claims,
"didn't threaten music, musicmaking or musicians. It merely threatened one
very specific kind of cultural object: the mass musical object." In the
hands of Corporate America (boo! hiss!) he implies that these objects are
tools of oppression. Yet, somehow, through the "magic" of the Internet,
these very same objects, placed in the hands of 'the right people' somehow
become instruments of divine liberation. How exactly are Napster *not*
part of Corporate America, Mr Kennicott?

Yes, yes, music corporations make huge profits. I'm not here to defend
these giants, and I've spoken long and loud about the dangers of the
continued contraction of ownership in this area, a growing phenomenon
which is of grave concern across the whole spectrum of global industry and
commerce. But again and again critics of these combines ignore basic
economic facts, simply because it isn't 'good copy'.

Like it or not, only a tiny fraction of the number of people contracted to
the major recording companies ever become "stars". One might not like
their music, or their attitudes, or their lifestyle, but surely one cannot
villify them simply because Fate has chosen them to be King (or Queen) For
A Day.  And let's not forget something else - most of these 'stars' have
worked very, VERY hard for a long time, and sacrificed a great deal, to
achieve this.

But of course there are thousands of artists who are signed up, make a
record, and never sell more than a few hundred or thousand copies of their
album or single. True, often they are not properly marketed, and sometimes
their music is just too left-field to ever reach a mass-audience. But the
expectation that every musician can achieve world-wide fame and fortune is
childish, and ignores the basic mechanics of modern capitalism. The
process may not be fair or just, but exclusive as it is, one must concede
that every artist signed has at least *some* chance of being heard,
somewhere. And this chance, at the root, is funded by the colossal
cash-flow generated by the Britneys and Madonnas of this world. It's
called economy of scale.  Without the bankroll of these huge sellers, it's
very unlikely that much of the vast treasure house of jazz, world music,
classical, avant-garde etc would ever have been recorded.

True, it's a selective, biased, and often vastly corrupt industry --
that's obvious. Many are called, few are chosen, and there are a lot of
unpalatable reasons (ethnicity, gender, age) which affect why popular
music is the way it is. But with the advent of the Internet *appears* to
be a chance emerging to create a new, or at least a alternative means to
market music, a way to supplement or perhaps someday to even supersede the
current model of global monoculture, mass-media music marketing, which
relies on high volume sales of a limited number of artists, simply because
of the massive costs involved in recording and promoting these products

The exciting potential for the Internet is that it will -- theoretically
-- enable "niche" artists like XTC or The Roches or whoever to reach and
sell to a wider audience than ever before possible. But it is predicated
on the necessity for consumers to play the game.

Let's face facts -- Napster is not MTV, it is not radio. It is not a
legitimate means to promote music, where accepted industry standards and
practices -- like the payment of mechanical royalties -- are heeded.

Napster is theft, pure and simple.

Shoplifting a CD is wrong, not because it strikes a blow at corporate
profiteering (it doesn't - they build losses via theft into their cost
structure) but because it ultimately takes money out of the pockets of the
artists we should be supporting. Napster does exactly the same thing. By
cynically exploiting a new ability to process and distribute high-quality
music digitally free, via the Internet, AND by doing this without fair
compensation to the artists involved, they commit the worst kind of
cultural piracy. It is no different than breaking into a museum and
stealing a work of art or an antique, and selling it on the black market.

Ultimately it hurts us all in many ways. To combat lawless crooks like
Napster, bands and record companies have to resort to expensive legal
action to enforce their rightful ownership over their intellectual
property and protect their rights to fair compensation for it's sale or
use. Such actions create a climate of confrontation and intimidation,
instead of tolerance. It makes record companies, publishers and copyright
owners ever more protective of their products, and makes life even more
difficult for fans who want to *legitimately* promote and celebrate the
works of their favourite artists by including lyrics, album covers or
sound files on their websites -- only to find themselves staring down the
business end of a lawsuit filed by an overprotective publisher or record

The Napster case is not about artistic freedom. If Napster was run by a
worldwide cooperative of musicians, Kennicott *might* have the shadow of
an argument. Unfortunately, Napster represents nothing more or less than a
new electronic form of a very old American "business" practice:



Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 00:36:41 -0600
From: "Joseph Easter" <>
Subject: thistle and shamrock
Message-ID: <000501bffb82$db032580$67730a3f@default>

Fellow Leftist Alcoholic Micks:

Listening to the Thistle and Shamrock on NPR last week and heard a
Celtic-like folk cover of Love on a Farm Boy's Wages. Does anyone know the
story on this? Imagine my surprise, eh?

Joseph " Big 'Un Lahk 'is Paw" Easter


Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 08:32:51 GMT
From: "James McRae" <>
Subject: re: Matters of genitalia. Zero XTC content
Message-ID: <>

UN-PC ALERT Please ignore this if you are easily offended...

Right, now I've got your attention......

Might I direct all transatlantic cousins who are missing a few UK
euphemisms to Roger Mellie's Profanisaurus

Which provides a wealth of hugely offensive material, and means you are
unlikely to miss out on obscure British lavatorial slang.  Is there an
American counterpart?




Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:04:48 +0100
From: "Chris" <>
Subject: Swans and others
Message-ID: <002301bffba0$14e8bf40$29a0a8c0@sigta>

Mostly off topic

Firstly, might I beg assistance from those more in the know music wise than
myself ( hell, even Tom Kingston if he's reading ;-)  ) :

I have a tape copy of an album by the Swans called 'Love of Life', which I
have just come to realise is one of my favourite albums. I know nothing
about this band, so can anyone recommend any other stuff by them or any
sources of information ? Thanks.

Which leads me too (late, I know) alien 5 :

1. 'Love of Life' - the Swans
2. 'Substance' - New Order (the tape not the CD - two extra tracks)
3. 'Unknown Pleasures' - Joy Division
4. 'Sound of White Noise' - Anthrax
5. 'Wasp Star' - XTC (at the moment, anyway)

Obviously, the aliens would have to give me time to trawl the world for a
copy of the Anthrax album to replace the one stolen from me two years ago.

Bands that make me feel sick : There aren't that many to be honest, although
those two young starlets whose name escapes me (Daphne and Celeste ?) would
certainly be amongst them. And REM. And Marc Almond.

Queen Jane proclaimed :

"There was a programme called Junior Choice in the UK, which was
aimed at kids. It was on Saturday & Sunday mornings and played
requests.  That's where I heard Poisoning Pigeons for the first time.
This may explain a lot."

And also where I first heard one of my all-time favourites 'Little Red
Riding Hood' by 999. At the time (I was pretty young..say ten or so) I
thought they were just another made up kids band like whoever did 'The
Runaway Train' or 'Three Wheels on My Wagon' (every week without fail !)

And..uh..Klaus Fluoride




Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:24:42 -0500
From: Mike McCormick <>
Subject: RE: Misheard Lyrics
Message-ID: <>

My kids still insist the song is "You & the Cows Will Still be Beautiful"!


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