Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #6-213

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 6, Number 213

                   Sunday, 30 July 2000


               a voice that was not my own
              Getting Vee (aquatica obscura)
                   Morrissey O'Sullivan
              there's another Klaus, Klaus!
    Re: Now that I'm famous maybe Andy will talk to me
               not so simple samples on AV1
                Vocalists We Love To Hate
                  My Name is Michael ...
                      Kisses For Me
              supergirlie & other delicacies
                      Clap Clap Clap
             Re: You Make Me Physically Sick
                   re: What would I do?
                    69 Love Songs etc.
             Bands that are highly overrated.
     It was a version of the old Lennon quote, right?
                         WS sales


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7b (John Relph <>).

It ain't the aliens at the foot of my bed.


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:13:55 CDT
From: "Megan Heller" <>
Subject: a voice that was not my own
Message-ID: <>

Ralph Simpson DeMarco quoted me as saying--
>Megan Heller commented :
>>nothing against 20-somethings...  what have they got?  the slacker stuff?
>>grunge?  nirvana, etc.?  "rave" culture?  techno and dance culture remains
>>to be interesting ...they're all so seemingly well-adjusted to all genres
>>and attitudes available to them...

but that was *NOT* me!  That was me quoting Alec (it was between bars of
asterix... asterixes?  asterices? something plural).  As I said in that
post, I'm 23, not going to be saying much in general about 20-somethings.
But anyway, I got the impression from Alec's post that he said "Nirvana"
more or less to represent the hundreds of grunge clones you hear now.  It's
like the Pearl Jam clones-- my god, I think Creed could get sued by Eddie

Anyway, I hate being misquoted, so I wanted to clear that up.



Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: brown <>
Subject: Getting Vee (aquatica obscura)
Message-ID: <>

Paul did say-

<<And my question is:  Are there any other readers on this list who simply
cannot understand what the bloomin' heck "vee tube" is on about most of the

No, Paul.. you are the only one who doesn't 'get Vee'...

A few hints-

Moby Dick
The Old Man And The Sea
The Incredible Mr. Limpet

come on, Paul.. you're not even trying..

Debora 'the reason the Mermaid Smiled' Brown


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:38:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tyler Hewitt <>
Subject: Morrissey O'Sullivan
Message-ID: <>

David Smith gave us these ine examples of Gilbert
O'Sullivan's songwriting talent:

In a little while from now
If I'm not feeling any less sour
I promise myself to treat myself
And visit a nearby tower
And climbing to the top
Will hurl myself right off . . .


Standing in a church, in the lurch
With people saying
My God that's tough, she stood him up
No point in us remaining
Might as well go home
As I did on my own . . .

Which should finally prove a secret theory I've been
mulling around: Morrissey is really Gilbert


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:13:45 -0400
From: "Stephanie Takeshita" <>
Subject: there's another Klaus, Klaus!
Message-ID: <>

In Digest 208, Klaus Bergmaier wrote,

>>there are not many Klaus' in the international music business. One German
singer called Klaus Lage came to fame in the 80s. And there is Klaus

Oh, man, I can't believe you left out Klaus Nomi!  And that just this past
week, I found a cheap collection of his very odd, frequently falsetto
renderings of classic songs 2 rendered almost unrecognizable and
unlistenable with cheesy, early-'80s synth accompaniments 2 in the used
bin.  I was giving it a cursory listen in the store and could've slid to
the floor in laughter, for this is a camp masterpiece of the
so-bad-it's-funny variety.

Lowlights include: a very stately, operatic falsetto rendition of Chubby
Checker's "The Twist," a song by the [15th?-C.] English composer John
Dowling; "Just One Look," "Falling in Love Again," etc.  Most of it is just
jaw-droppingly bad, and much of it is hysterically funny.  Imagine
triangulating Wendy Carlos Williams, the Italian operatic castrati singers
of old, and William Shatner.  Actually, Nomi is as bad as Shatner, but in a
different way.  Shatner's just a goof with no technique, while Nomi had a
lot of technique and was shooting for Art-with-a-Kapitel-A.  Unfortunately,
he had poor artistic judgement (shoehorning disco sounds where they don't
belong and stripping rhythmic songs of their beat) and, I'm sorry to say,
no soul and absolutely no funk.

XTC content: Klaus Nomi can be seen and heard performing one song in a
varied-artists concert tape from the early 80's, in which XTC performs
"Respectable Street".

And happy birthday, Klaus.

Stephanie Takeshita
x. 3625


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:22:14 -0700
From: "Victor Rocha" <>
Subject: Re: Now that I'm famous maybe Andy will talk to me
Message-ID: <007601bff7f8$443f1c40$>

Hey Gang, A California newspaper just did a piece on me and my website. take
a look:

BTW they didn't mention my XTC fixation.

Victor Rocha
California Indian Gaming News
Los Angeles, California


Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:54:36 -0500
From: Paul Brantley <>
Subject: not so simple samples on AV1
Message-ID: <>
Organization: Syracuse University

Generally all of the strings are real although they are invariably
tarted up, or doubled by sampled strings (Easter Theatre) or mellotron
(Last Balloon).

River or Orchids: sampled muted trumpets; the harmon mute trumpets
sound real.

Easter Theatre: those woodwinds are ALL sampled. Real trumpet (as
credited) and mellotron flutes.

Frivolous Tonight: The strings are exclusively mellotron. Sounds like
moog brass (ala "Because" from Abbey Road).

Green Man: Those are sampled Bassoons, believe me!!! (straight from
the demo, sounds like)

Your Dictionary: real cello, although doubled at spots with samples, I

I can't own Her: everything sounds real: harp, cimbalom?, low
harmonica or accordion, oboe!

Harvest Festival: real recorders (a great idea Andy used on the Lilac
Time's "Fields", off of & Love for All).

I think I'm mostly right. Any other opinions?

Paul Brantley


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:56:25 -0400
From: Jeff Eason <>
Subject: Vocalists We Love To Hate
Message-ID: <>

Fellow Chalk Villains,

Ed K. makes a good point (CH #6-205) when he points out that liking a
vocalist is an incredibly subjective issue. My Dad, who has excellent taste
in music, can't get past Elvis Costello's voice, which I happen to like. I
know a lot of folks who hate Neil Young or Tom Waits simply because of
their vocal styles...different strokes for yada yada yada.
That said, here's my list of favorite and least favorite vocalists (list
subject to change on author's whim, not valid in Vermont, Kansas or Salt
Lake City).

Top Eleven Male Vocalists (in no particular order)

1) Rufus Wainwright (Loudon's son)
2) Al Green
3) Robert Wyatt
4) Bryan Ferry
5) Lennon & McCartney
6) Partridge & Moulding
7) Ryan Adams (of Whiskeytown)
8) Marvin Gaye
9) Jerry Garcia
10) John Wetton
11) Roger Chapman (of Family)

Note: I put some singers with their singing partners because that's when I
enjoy them the most. If I had to pick my all time favorite, it would have
to be Robert Wyatt. If he's not a national treasure in the UK, well then he
ought to be. I put John Wetton on the list not so much for his work in the
band UK but for his work with King Crimson.

Least Favorite Singers

1) Bob Weir
2) Michael Bolton
3) Geddy Lee
4) John Popper
5) Meat Loaf
6) That guy from the band Japan
7) John Cowan (I don't know why people rave about his voice)
8) Bob Dylan (although I like "Time Out Of Mind")
9) Peter Cetera
10) All those singers in those young boy bands like Boyz 2 Men, 'N' Sync,
etc. that act like it is a felony to simply hold a note. Those Mariah
Careyesque vocal gymnastics are quite simply annoying!

Another possible list could be for vocalists whose instruments have
deteriorated over time. David Bowie, Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, John Cale
and Ian Anderson would all be on my list of vocalists whose voices I once
loved but can now hardly stand to hear. I'm exaggerating somewhat, so play
nice when you defend the honor of your favorite musician who popped up on
this list.

I could make separate lists for female vocalists but quite frankly I get a
lot of the new ones mixed up. Was that Mariah or Whitney or Janet or Toni
or Celine? The main reason for that, I suppose, is their unfailing lack of
imagination when it comes to choosing material. Has there ever been such a
crop of singers that sang such drivelly shit love songs? Give me Aretha or
give me death!

XTC content: I mean it when I say that Colin and Andy are at their vocal
best when they sing together. There are some very rich moments like that on
Wasp Star.

Yers in XTC,

Jeff "Still in Love with Brainiac's Daughter" Eason.


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 16:10:30 EDT
Subject: My Name is Michael ...
Message-ID: <>

Dear Sister Deborah - Clint Holmes is the perpetrator of that awful
song "Playground in My Mind." In the worst form of musical child abuse

BTW, Clint Holmes also had very long sideburns. I remember him when he
was "popular." Gawd, I sound like my mom, a Bobby Soxer for Frank
Sinatra (whom I adore...)

Ciao, baby.
Annamarie, who prefers Playground, period.


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 23:36:38 +0100 (BST)
From: Rory Wilsher <>
Subject: Kisses For Me
Message-ID: <>


Smudgeboy, you B*ST*RD! Thanks for reminding me of
this appalling piece of Eurovision Trash!

For the uninitiated, this excrement won the Eurovision
song contest in197? And no, I don't really need to
know the year. It's "Save All Your Kisses For Me" by
The Brotherhood Of Man. If you don't know what the
Eurovision song contest is, think yourselves lucky! It
really is as bad as it sounds.

In revenge, I will merely mention the name Bucks Fizz.

Rory "Reach out and touch faith" Wilsher


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 23:38:52 +0000
From: Jayne Myrone <>
Subject: supergirlie & other delicacies
Message-ID: <>

Rory Wisher wrote:
I recently went to see "Supergirly" in London, who specialise in taking
the piss out of the current boy/girl/boy&girl bands. They do a brilliant
rendition of this (these?) song(s) in which they do precisely this - sing
both songs at the same time. It's verr', verr' funny. But I guess you had
to be there.

Anyone thinking of doing the Edinburgh Festival (why?) can get to see
them on August 11-12 at EICC.

..strangely enough, Jayne, they taste nothing like pork or chicken..
think Shiitake mushroom, only sweeter..  delish!
Sounds pretty good Debora - put one on the barbie for me please.

still worrying, but glad I've never heard Playgrounds in my Mind, & no,
I DON't want to hear it.

Jayne the Worrier Queen

want to know how many boxes & books I've packed?
go here - hopefully updated on a daily basis

"Nothing is meaningless if one likes to do it"
Gertrude Stein


Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:17:34 +0200
From: "Mark Strijbos" <>
Subject: Clap Clap Clap
Message-ID: <>

Liebe Kreideberger!

First of all we turn our attention to XTC's ambassador to Oz, the ever
eloquent and positively pro-active Lord Culnane :

> Are there any other readers on this list who simply cannot
> understand what the bloomin' heck "vee tube" is on about most of
> the time?

Somebody else said:

> Is it just me or is the capacity to think for oneself steadily
> being removed by our education system?
no, AFAIK it has never been there in the first place.
i did not learn to think at school, let alone learn to think for myself.

And the vast majority of pupils just never "gets it" but this has always been
a fact of life. Plato and his contemporaries already complained about this.
We (as Chalkhills subscribers) are probably _very_ a-typical in this respect
precisely because we like an unknown band, read strange books, see weird
movies etc etc etc.
we are not afraid to have an individual opinion or perhaps even an original

And now to our friend Klaus Bergmaier who recently remarked:

> there are not many Klaus' in the international music business.

but i can name at least a couple more.
There's Klaus Schulze, quite famous for his synthesizer work ever since the
60's. and still going strong today

Didn't the rather mysterious looking actor Klaus Kinski release some music
as well? ooh, the memories fade so fast here in Gomorrah

And of course there's also the world famous Klaus Wunderlich and his
Wonder Organ. I'm not sure but for all i know he's still playing around with

Finally, some XTC content! well, sort of...
Just want to remind everyone that Dave Gregory will be performing live with
Steve Hogarth's band 'h' on August 8th *and* 9th at the Dingwalls club in
Camden, London (UK).
Tickets are |15 and can be ordered online at the following URL:

You can find me there on the 1st night, i'll be a stupidly happy skinny bloke
if you do spot me, please come up for a chat, OK?

see you there,

Mark "Klaus" Strijbos and his Incredible Human Castanets

yours in xtc,

Mark S. @ the Little Lighthouse


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:56:59 -0400
From: "Duncan Watt" <>
Subject: Re: You Make Me Physically Sick
Message-ID: <>

Inna prior post, Unna <> seethed:

> Alright, so we've gone past artists that suck and are now listing those
> bands that make us physically sick. O.K. It is with much physical hatred
> and hostility that I type this "artists" name.... Neil Young!
>...but if we were cave people I would definitely be clubbing old Neil
> down to an unrecognizable and silent bundle of fur and stringy hair.

Sad to say it, but up until just a few years ago, I'dda gonna lonnga with
you, Unna, on that one. Then I realized just what Mr. Young was trying to
do... and I Liked It. He don't need you around, anyhow, so to speak.

Duncan "Lucky Southern" Watt

ps plus, clubs just bounce right off guys like Neil...

pps for maximum pleasure, try out Cassandra Wilson's cover of The
Aforementioned's "Harvest Moon" on her 1995 CD "New Moon Daughter"
(Blue Note CDP 7243 8 32861 2 6)...

email me:
surf me:


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:14:26 +0000
From: Scott Barnard <>
Subject: re: What would I do?
Message-ID: <"001301bff807$43603020$1c1cc918">

In #6-209, Paul.Culnane sniffed:

<<And my question is: Are there any other readers on this list who simply
cannot understand what the bloomin' heck "vee tube" is on about most of the

I'll clarify. What he's on about is providing a service of incalculable
worth to 'hillers who have nothing to trade and have little stomach for
e-bay. This is done for no apparent profit other than the knowledge that he

Thanks, vee.



Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:13:19 EST
From: "Iain Murray" <>
Subject: Unmentionable
Message-ID: <>

>From: chris vreeland <>
>Subject: Huey, the Unmentionable
>In Australia, before they began importing women, many men were
>prosecuted for what was only referred to as "the unmentionable act."

*Before* we began importing women? You mean we were supposed to stop?


"Sheep shagging is very good for you. You take them to the edge of a
mountain for best effect - they push back better." - Billy Connolly


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:03:16 -0700
From: Jim Allen <>
Subject: 69 Love Songs etc.
Message-ID: <>

Hello all:

First off, thanks to the various people who pointed out to me where Andy
got the sounds for "River of Orchids" from.  That's an interesting way to
work---start with the sample as a rough guide, then do it with "live"
instruments.  So much easier these days to not even bother with the live
instruments part....

Kevin Diamond wrote:
>So basically, what I'm trying to say is : "word"

YanowatImsayin'?   Thanks for mentioning Chuck D and Public Enemy.  "It
Takes A Nation" and "Fear of A Black Planet" are kickin' records too.  Too
bad about the anti-Semitism and homophobia though......

> >I've read a lot recently in the press and music press about the album 69
> >Love Songs by Magnetic Fields (songs written by Stephin Merritt).

I like Magnetic Fields alot.  I saw them here in Los Angeles last year and
they were quite good.  I was shocked when I got all the pre-"69 Love Songs"
CD's as a Christmas present; unlike the concert, which was very
folk/bluesy, all the CD's sounded like Depeche Mode and OMD recorded on a
boombox.  Very strange.  Great, great lyrics though.

Ralph wrote:
>Jim, if it's so easy to write a great pop song,

You misunderstood what I meant.  What I meant---and didn't convey
properly---was that it would be easy for me to write a very Andy-influenced
song, using the particular writing habits I mentioned.  Writing something
original on the other hand......

I think writing a memorable song without resorting to mimicry is really,
really, really hard!  I could never do it, which is why I'm a bass player!
:-) :-) :-)  And don't write with examples like Jack Bruce, Sting,
McCartney, I know......I'm sorry if my statement implied otherwise.

>If it comes too easy, it's probably not very good.

Possibly, but Pete Townsend claims to have written "My Generation" in 10
minutes flat.  So, it varies.

>The outcry about rap is that it blurs the lines between
>'influence' and 'stealing'.

True!  But, if we look at the wider culture, that's often the case these
days. It's one of the criticisms of 20/30-somethings art, usually made by
40/50 year olds! :-) I can't tell you how many movies I've seen in the last
5 years that lifted scenes wholesale from classic movies--and not in a
"post-modern dripping with sarcasm and irony" way, but just theft.  I
sometimes think that most of the ideas in music, art, movies etc. have been
used up or taken to their furthest extreme so what's left is slicing and
dicing things up to come up with something "new".

>It wasn't until the record industry realized it could sell records (hello,
>remember money?) that it created nothing out of something that already
>existed (see Walk This Way by Run DMC).

Ralph, with all due respect, that's a poor example.  That was what,
1986?  If you take the Sugarhill Gangs "Rappers Delight" as Rap 1:1, that
was done in 1979, I think.  Rap was already a major deal by 1986--at least
in the urban US--and whitey :-) :-) :-) :-) had already started ripping it
off ie The Clash's "Magnificent Seven" and Blondie's "Rapture" by 1981.  So
what's worse?  Sampling that mythical James Brown record for a beat or
mimicking the style like The Clash?  That's for you to decide.  For me
personally, they are essentially the same thing.

>Once the Beatles and the Stones, for example, started writing their own
>songs, they developed their own style of songwriting (Stones being a bit
>more obvious r&b).

I love The Beatles to bits---I think they're the greatest rock band the
world will ever see, IMHO---but read interviews with John and Paul---they
can tell you every song that they either ripped off licks from or took and
just did a copy of--The Fabs catalog is littered with Lennon/McCartney
songs that were just responses to other peoples (often black Americans)

>Perhaps you think, because some singer-songwriters makes it sound easy,
>you think that the process in getting there was easy. Big mistake.

Again, you misunderstood what I meant.  That's why it was such a revelation
to hear Travis do "Baby Hit Me One More Time"---strip away the crap
production and there's actually a good song buried there.  I think
memorable songwriting is amazing and I'm in awe of people like The Beatles,
Pete Townsend, Brian Wilson, Keith Emerson (fill in your faves here).

Finally, Joe "Da" Funk used capital letters to scream:

> >Besides, is that any different from a guitarist finding a riff, changing
> >two notes and the rhythm slightly and voila! new riff?
>None of the music I like incorporates the above nonsense..INVALID

So what, you only listen to Estonian quarter-tone string quartets then?
:-)  If you like, or have ever liked, "Heart of the Sunrise" you most
certainly have liked some of that "nonsense".  Chris Squire ripped that
opening riff off of "Schizoid Man", he admits it.  Jon Anderson was quoted
as saying "I'm surprised we didn't get sued!".  The opening bars of "Yours
Is No Disgrace" are a direct lift from a 60's US Cowboy TV show theme, "Big
Country" I think.  And so on.

>I just don't understand how someone who probably worships "Tarkus" can
>listen to talentless morons like Dr. Dre..

Well, I'm listening to "Tarkus" from Wichita,KS 3/26/74 right now as I
type.  And if it's one thing prog taught me--other than that 21 minute
songs are 7 times better than 3 minute songs---is that it taught me to open
my ears.  If it wasn't for the Prog Big 5, I'd most likely not gotten in to
modern/20th Century orchestral music (which I love), jazz, folk or
electronic music to the extent that I have.  I'd still be listening to my
Black Sabbath--or these days, Korn--albums, blissfully ignorant of all the
great music out there.

I'd probably not have gotten in to some quirky, Beatles/Kinks/Beach
Boys/etc. rip off band :-) :-) :-) from England called XTC either.


ELP:  bootleg, 3/26/74


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:44:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Radios In Motion <>
Subject: Bands that are highly overrated.
Message-ID: <383651899.964748694806.JavaMail.root@web190-iw>

I know this will piss off a lot of people, but I am not saying the below
artists are not good.  I am only saying that the artists below are
"overrated" meaning, though they may have been DAMN GOOD artists, many
people just like them because other people like them.  Most people are sheep
and will like what everyone else does.  I do not believe that a band that
gets millions of fans is good just because they have so many fans.  Anyway,
here goes.

1. Beatles.  I know, start throwing the flaming spears.  They were a great
band.  HOWEVER, they were overrated.  I believe many people were their fans
just because they were popular.

2. Elvis Presley.  Same as above.  The teen female market at its worse.

3. Led Zeppelin.  kkheemm. Gulp.

4. New Kids On The Block. I know that pissed some of you off to see them in
the same list as the Beatles, but its true.

5. Depeche Mode. Maybe now no one remembers Depeche Mode.  They were a great
group, but here in southern CA, they pretty much ran the new wave scene
towards the late 80's.  They were so damn popular, but in another 10 years,
probably no one will know who they are.

6. I said this 12 years ago, and I will say this now, IT WAS MARR!  HE WAS
THE ONE WITH THE BRILLIANCE!  Morrissey was just pushed in the spotlight!

7. Guns & Roses.  By the first few months of the album release for AFD, you
would have thought they were the only metal band by the press they were

8. Grateful Dead.  I am just grateful the fat guy is dead.  I know, that is
a terrible thing to say, I'm sorry, I take it back.  But this band was not
just overrated, they sucked.  I hated them and their drug crazed fans.
Anyway, this is not about groups I hate, this is about groups that are
overrated, I just wanted to throw that in.

9. Nirvana.

10. Eugene Chadborne.  Ok, I am kidding here. Sting would have to get this
list.  He is great, don't get me wrong, but he is way overrated.  Many
people have said "He was the police" I say "bullshit!"

Now for a few underrated groups off the top of my head:

1. XTC
2. Boingo
3. Frank Zappa
4. Robyn Hitchcock
5. Men Without Hats
6. World Party
7. Flesh For Lulu
8. Falco
9. Mary's Danish
10. Heaven 17

I still resent Faith No More for getting rid of the first singer!  I never
liked them the same after he left.


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:13:23 -0500
From: "Larry Stevens" <>
Subject: video?
Message-ID: <00ce01bff839$75150780$03c6d4cc@oldbessie>

> New thread suggestion:
> Has anyone thought about which WS song you'd like to see up on the little
> screen?

Here's mine: Church of Women

This one seems to be the most visual to me, even though Brown Guitar is
right up there with it.  In COW, I see Andy in Anglican vestments, swinging
a censor (pardon my ignorance, do Anglican churches use censors and
incense?) with smoke puring out and forming beautiful female figures which
hover about, caressing him. (Breathe 'em in until my head goes spinning

Also I see a bearded Colin hanging on the cross during the line "Men have
thorns around their minds" as well as gargoyle Andys in the earlier verse.


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:22:18 -0500
From: Jill Oleson <>
Subject: It was a version of the old Lennon quote, right?
Message-ID: <81CC73FC2FACD311A2D200508B8B88AA1C9011@KURION_EXCH>

When Andy said that he didn't "listen to other people's stuff,"
it reminded me of a similar quote from John Lennon.  I'm sure
one of you Chalkers can help me get the real Lennon quote, but
it was something like:  Why would you ask me who my favorite
musician is?  That's like asking Picasso who his favorite artist is!

[something like that anyway!]

Jill Oleson
Austin, Texas


Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 23:39:37 EDT
Subject: WS sales
Message-ID: <>

In a message dated 7/27/00 7:55:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
<> writes:

<< Barring a miracle (I DO work at a Catholic college, maybe I can put in a
few good words?) Wasp Star ain't going anywhere near where it should go. >>

True, but didn't we expect that?  I imagine XTC expected it too.  How likely
are they to have a commercial breakthrough on an indie label?  And without
touring?  They may get a better royalty rate, though, which just might be
enough to keep them going.

I must admit I do wonder how many copies of each album have been sold.

love (whose ghost is in the courtroom fingering its murderer...),


End of Chalkhills Digest #6-213

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