Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-350

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 350

                Thursday, 23 December 1999

Today's Topics:

                    Merry XTChristmas
                    Millennial Matters
                  More Pressing Matters
           Do What You Will But Bitch Slap None
Beatles; honours & titles; Auntie Mimi; possible drugs crossover
                         The List
                 Lennon is an Irish name
                   Julian / live shows
                Queen Victoria was a man!
                    red dwarf/swindon
        I've got some lovely, but does the band?!?
                      Honours System
                        Dear God!
                Re: Schmillennial Bullsh*t
                 bonus cuts on the CD's.


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2 days / Countdown to Christmas!


Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:04:46 EST
Subject: Merry XTChristmas

Greeting everyone,

I wanted to wish you all a very happy holidays and a great XTC New Year!

I wished for AV2 for Christmas, but won't know till Saturday...(down the
chimney, placed in my stockings with care, from a man in a red suit!)  It's
Andy!  Yikes...

Ho Ho, Terry Christmas!...oops...

John in Chicago


Message-ID: <>
From: "Nathan Mulac DeHoff" <>
Subject: Millennial Matters
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:04:21 GMT

Mark Newberg:
>If it wasn't for computers this whole hullabaloo about the year 2000
>would not exist. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

I disagree.  There was plenty of fuss and worry about the year 1000, and
people were predicting that 2000 would be the end of the world long before
computers came to be.  The Y2K thing just fits nicely in with everything

Mark Strijbos:
>And, along the same lines, the very first decade ended in the year

Only trouble is, back then, no one knew it was the year 10.  I'm not sure
when people started using the current calendar, but it certainly wasn't in
the year 1.  It would have been some time after that, and, by that time, no
one knew exactly when Jesus had been born.  According to most modern
estimates, if something cataclysmic was scheduled to happen 2000 years after
the birth of Jesus, it's already been delayed, because he was born around 6
BC (or BCE, if you're so inclined).

Personally, I don't like parties, and I'm probably not going to do anything
really special for New Year's in 2000 OR 2001.  So there.



From: "Mark Strijbos" <>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 23:56:25 +0100
Subject: More Pressing Matters
Message-Id: <>

Dear Chalkers,

> I believe that more recent CDs from Virgin
> are given two catalog numbers.  The first, the standard UK-style
> number (e.g., "CDV 2325") and the second, a standard European-style
> number (e.g., 621-241).

> That way, they could press the same booklet
> for CDs meant for distribution both within and without the UK.
Possibly, but Fossil Fuel for instance was also 'made in Holland',
with exactly the same bunch of catalogue numbers.
But the cd's in this issue are pressed in EMI's Swindon plant, matrix
number 841984.1 1-1-5-NL.
The 'regular' UK release has matrix number 842129 2.3:1:4

Re. The Big Express CD:

Yes, the "blue background" platter was the first release of this
album on cd and it did appear on the marketplace when Skylarking
was released (1986). That was the album that prompted me to buy a
cd player (first on the block!) and a couple of cd's: Skylarking, Black
Sea and a "blue" The Big Express.

yours in xtc,

Mark Strijbos at The Little Lighthouse


Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:30:46 +1100 (EST)
From: Mud Shark <>
Subject: Do What You Will But Bitch Slap None

Perhaps I shouldn't prolong this, but I'm going to

Wes Long had this to say in #5-348 (re : Iain's bitch
slap) :

>>What I meant is that it showed a "remarkable level
of bravery" on his part to attack everyone on the list
only to say that he would no longer be here to read
any defending comments by us Chalkgeeks. He bitch
slapped us then ran.<<

Okay. Firstly, I should apologise to Wes for my
"remarkable level of bravery" comment. It was totally
out of place, not to mention extremely self-righteous.
Dunno what came over me (as the blind.....oh, never
mind), but I'm sorry.

Secondly, as much as I don't want this to degenerate
into a name-calling contest, or give the impression
that I'm right and everyone else is wrong, I didn't
perceive Iain's message as a "bitch slap" or any sort
of attack. I've just gone back to the archives and
read it again - my interpretation is that he'd had
enough of having his posts taken the wrong way, so he
wouldn't be posting anymore. That's all I read into
it, and to be honest I can't see how you could
interpret it any other way....but I'm open to

>>I was attacking someone who not only refused to
defend himself, but kicked us all in the teeth prior
to doing so.<<

Again, I can't see where you're getting this angle
from. Rather than refusing to defend himself, I think
he was tired of having to do so unnecessarily (or at
least, what he believed to be unnecessarily).

Am I the only one who *didn't* take this parting
message personally?


"I rail against God because I was told to stop eating paste in Sunday
school" - P.J.O'Rourke


Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 01:48:11 +0000
From: John Peacock <>
Organization: The Nice Organization
Subject: Beatles; honours & titles; Auntie Mimi; possible drugs crossover

Goody, another thread so far off topic it's grazing another list.

Beatles: MBEs awarded in 1965 "for services to exports and industry"
(i.e. for selling a lot of records and being so popular that everybody
wanted to suck up to them, even Buck House). John returned his on November
25th 1969 in protest against Vietnam, the war in Biafra and against Cold
Turkey slipping down the charts as has been noted elsewhere.

"I share John's views about Britain's involvement in the Nigerian war, but
I cannot agree that this is any way to register a protest. If I'd known
what he wanted to do with it, I would not have let him have his MBE. This
is all very much out of character for John."  John's Auntie Mimi

"I am very upset that my Auntie Mimi is upset . I will ring her to try and
explain why I handed the MBE back. She doesn't understand half the things
I do.  She hasn't yet got over the fact that I started wearing sideburns
when I was 18."
John Lennon.

MBEs are honours - a bit like medals
Knighthoods are titles - these are like ranks (like Sergeant, or Major -
some people get to be these, the rest of us are just Privates).
Two different things.

Baronet (see the original post) is a form of peerage (like Earl or
Duke). A very low-ranking form, if I remember correctly. Saying someone
with an MBE was equivalent to a Baronet as the original poster does is a
bit like saying a private with a purple heart is equivalent to a

Peerages are the only titles with any real relevance, since they entitle
the holder to sit in the House of Lords, and bugger about a bit with Acts
of Parliament if they feel like it. Actually, all that's been changed, but
I can't be arsed to find out what the current arrangements are.

It's interesting that Paul has not been made a Peer. Andrew Lloyd Webber
has, but then he went to public school.

Possible drugs crossover: in order to calm their nerves at the
presentation of their MBEs, the Fabs went into the loos at Buckingham
Palace and got stoned. It is not recorded what John was on when he gave
his back.


Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 17:42:40 -0800
From: Craig Vreeken <>
Subject: The List

Regarding the VH-1 show, "The List," Simon Curtiss noted the following:

>>Well, the show is a joke.  Another example that is going around:  they
>>asked Jason Falkner to drop Andy Partridge from his three favorite
>>songwriters list because the producers had never heard of him.  Could be
>- anyone know if this really happened? It's very sad (as in 'you sad gits')
>if it's true.

I don't know if this is true, but it wouldn't surprise me.  The show is
pretty lame.  The premise is that a panel of four quasi-celebrities pick
three songs or artists that fit the theme of that day's list.  Then the
other celebs on the panel can knock off one each from the list that they
don't like.  For example theme for the one I saw recently was "Rebel
Songs."  Someone, I believe a comedian, actually picked "Dear God" by XTC.
While this wasn't knocked off by any of the other celebs, he took a lot of
flack from the other clueless celebs and defended it as a "rebel song."
Another song chosen as a very obvious rebel song, "My Generation," by The
Who, was knocked off the list by a rap artist on the panel, because "It
ain't my generation."  Great reason, guy.  Then the audience chooses the
final 3, which are invariably lame.  Needless to say, "Dear God" did not
make the cut.  But neither did the really obvious choices, like "Born to be
Wild" etc.  I think the three were "Born to Run" by Bruce and two rap songs.

On another topic, whomever recommended Minster Hill awhile back, thanks.
I'm listening to it now.  I really like it.  It sounds like if Colin
Moulding sang lead for Peter Gabriel/Steve Hackett-era Genesis backing him
up with songs written by Brian Wilson.  Or maybe not.  But it is quite good.

Happy Holidays
Craig Vreeken


Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 18:07:22 -0800
From: awa <>
Subject: Lennon is an Irish name

>John wasn't so keen on being a "member of the British Empire" for
>understandable political reasons (After all, Lennon is an Irish name!), and
>he returned his.

This is a little much.  First of all, Lennon was very much an
Englishman and not an Irishman.  The Beatles ALL have strong Irish
roots.  I think that Lennon said something like, "All four Beatles are
'Potato Irish'," meaning their ancestors traveled over to Liverpool
during the Potato Famine.

None of Lennon's anti-English crap started until the '70s.  Identity
crisis.  "I'm not Psychedelic, I'm not English!  I'm an Irish
revolutionary!!  Now, my generation will really respect me!"

In the '70s, he began wishing he could be more like Bruce Springstein.
I mean Lennon wanting to be more like The Boss?!

Secondly, do you actually think that there are no people with Irish
names who've been honored with MBEs?  England, Scotland, Ireland and
Wales all together does not equal a huge land mass and that could
possibly lead one to conclude that there are even people with Welsh
last names, or people who were born in Scotland, or people who were
born in Cornwall who have been bestowed MBEs and have even (gasp)
knighted.  What does that have to do with anything?  Don't you think
that "McCartney" is an Irish name?  How much more Irish can a name be?

Lennon's sense of "politics"?  Ouch.  An extremely open, creative and
psychedelic person throwing money at things that hipsters convinced
him were cool things to throw money at and making this Big Statement
with returning the MBE.  Unfortunately, he looks like a spoilt brat at
that stage in his life (just listen to "God").  Let's face it,
Lennon's talent was cosmic but that whole post '67 With-It Hippy
Guy-cum-Me Generation thing really messed him up: he gave back the
MBE, he staged the Bed Ins, he started buying into the political
philosophies of so-called "radicals" (charlatans) of the time--people
like John Sinclair, Abby Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, Angela Davis, etc.
He also started creating songs with what I'm sure he felt were "Right
On!" political lyrics.  Youch.  Check out some of Yoko's early '70s
Pro Woman songs for some real cringing moments.  Sometimes, these were
great songs and sometimes they were very naive and ill-informed
sounding and other times they're just sad.  Extremely sad.  I think he
had a certain amount of guilt, for whatever reason, to pay back, as
well as to be more among, The People--whoever the hell THEY are.  They
sure don't include the Queen.  He wanted people his age to think he
was cool and avant, so he and Yoko both did some things that WERE cool
and avant (Two Virgins, Life with the Lions, The Wedding Album) and
some things that were completely useless.  I'm sure he was passionate,
to a certain degree, about all sorts of causes and wrote some great
songs like "Imagine" and "Revolution"s #1 and #9 but he also wrote
lyrics like those in "Power To the People", "John Sinclair" and
everything else on the "Sometime In New York City" LP.  Great music,
as usual, but sucking a dead rat lyrically.  He was in over his head,
obviously.  He was very young, very psychedelic and hanging out with
losers who were friggin' B.E.N.E.A.T.H. him.

Besides that, he asked Buckingham Palace for a "Royal Pardon" in the
'70s for returning the MBE.  He must have kicked the coke and went
back to green.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:46:46 -0500
From: Ben Gott/Loquacious Music <>
Subject: Mastering!

Let's get down to business!

Our pal Mitch wrote:

>Yes I've just done the improbable and spoken to Colin. Believe it or
>not, XTC has 2 or 3 days of recording left and then they are ready to
>mix AV2 on January 11th. It will be done at Rockfield with Nick Davis
>(like AV1) and then mastered by Bob Ludwig in NYC in February.

As far as I know, Bob Ludwig's Gateway Mastering Studios are in
Portland, ME!  Does TVT need for the master tapes?  I'd
be glad to drive them down!  And then I in Gateway
Mastering and help Bob!  And bring him coffee and stuff!

Eh.  Just a suggestion.

I bought Belle & Sebastien's "Tigermilk."  Damn, these songs are so
light, you could push 'em over with a feather...and whomever is singing
lead ("Sebastien," I'd imagine) sounds like Nick Drake risen from the
dead.  Spooky.

I'd respond to other Chalkhillians, but I won't.  Happy holidays, my


     Benjamin Gott . Loquacious Music . Brunswick, ME 04011
AIM: Plan4Nigel . Telephone (207) 721-5366 . Mobile (207) 798-1859      .


Message-ID: <>
From: "Megan Heller" <>
Subject: Julian / live shows
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:04:55 CST reviewed--
>>Julian Lennon - "Photograph Smile"
>Which was so very nearly a great pop album.  A fair amount of it is >pure
>bliss, but I couldn't believe how much of it sounded like direct >lifts
>from other bands' songs.  It becomes very distracting after a >while.

really?  hm.  that's interesting.  i was kind of excited about this album
from the snippets I heard, "Believe" and things like that.  I was a huge fan
of "Valotte" when it came out, even if I was only seven years old.  I still
have the cassette of that album I received from my eighth birthday.  And,
even at the tender age of eight, I realized that his second album was crap.
I still think "Valotte" is an excellent debut album, and that it has some
good pop gems on it.  Well, even if "Photograph Smile" isn't quite there,
maybe it shows he's a step closer to realizing the potential shown when he
was nineteen.

Funny that the album sounds like so many other artists, since the reason his
career went awry in the first place was people saying he sounded too much
like his father...

newcomer Toto observed--
>I really can't see what the fuss about XTC not playing live is about: >I've
>always felt that you get the best part of an artist/band >listening to the
>recpords and not on stage: seein' a band playing >live only gets you bad
>notes, sweat and that strange desire to meet >them while they're leaving
>the stage.

funny, I've felt that way myself as I get older.  I tend only to go to
concerts by artists who have smaller, more intimate audiences.  I find, for
me, that listening to music has become a more private experience in many
instances, and the live sound isn't important enough for me to sacrifice
that to pay a bunch of money to stand in an overly-crowded room with other
fans swooning, and often leave feeling empty.  The exceptions-- one, when I
went to see David Bowie in 1997-- it actually was a small concert for Bowie
(Capitol Ballroom, for ye DC folk), it was intense, and I don't think I'd
actually want to meet David Bowie, as I would most likely beg him to adopt
me before promptly having a seizure.  two, Dead Can Dance in 1996 (at the
Warner Theatre in DC)-- *amazing* show, and what made this different was
that it felt much more like watching a classical recital than a concert--
the fans sat in their seats and appreciated the *incredible* music (Lisa
Gerrard's voice is unbelievable live), and there was none of the swarming
and grasping for a chance to touch someone's hand that there is at a lot of
large concerts.  finally, three, Rabbit in the Moon-- honestly one of the
most amazing instances of performance art meets concert that I've ever seen.
  if you like electronic music, and you have the opportunity to see them, I
highly recommend it.


ps - Thanks to Christmas (haha), I now actually own Belle & Sebastian's
"Tigermilk"-- definitely on my best of 1999 list...


Message-ID: <>
From: "Megan Heller" <>
Subject: Queen Victoria was a man!
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 21:26:03 CST

Christopher R. Coolidge reported--
>    You can't legislate morality. It doesn't work. Of all people,
>Victorian England had the right idea, there were no laws against
>homosexuality or currently illicit drugs. You could smoke all the
>opium and have all the homosexual sex you wanted, but you also had to
>deal with being ostracised and shunned socially. Not that I'd like us
>to go back to Victorian society, but a truly free society doesn't
>need to legislate for or against morality.

whoa!  while I agree with your sentiments, I'm afraid you have your facts
wrong.  Laws against sodomy and the lesser charge of "gross indecency"
(basically homosexual sex which could not be proven) were *indeed* in place
in Victorian England.  Our man Oscar Wilde was put in Reading Gaol for two
years at hard labor for his antics with male prostitutes (he was one charged
with gross indecency-- see any of the books on the trials of Oscar Wilde, or
the Moises Kaufman Brechtian interpretation of the trials, "Gross Indecency:
The Three Trials of Oscar Wilde").  The were a number of scandals in late
Victorian England-- the Cleveland Street scandal (referring to a house at 88
Cleveland Street, London, operating as a brothel for clandestine meetings
between telegraph boys and members of the upper class) sent many British
officials and aritocrats off packing to France on late-night boats
(homosexual sex was legal in France).  In fact, these laws, which tended to
mandate a couple years of jail (and the unofficial punishment of societal
ruin, since they were directed less an informant male prostitutes and more
the men who were supposed to be examples and the pillars of society), were
merely a lessening of the death penalty for such acts, which was in place
only a little earlier.  They were not repealed until 1967.

megan (specialist in late 19th/early 20th century British literature and
queer theory).


Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:49:47 -0500
From: David Oh <>
Subject: red dwarf/swindon

just a quick question before i break for christmas...

what series number of the brit-com red dwarf has the episode with the
swindon reference? does anyone know?

showcase (a cable channel in canada) has started to re-run red dwarf from
the beginning and i wanted to know what series number has this show so i
can watch out for it. what, too, is that paticular episode about?

anyone out there an expert on red dwarf?

thanks in advance...

 peace & xtc,



Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 22:25:03 -0800
From: Rich Bunnell <>
Subject: I've got some lovely, but does the band?!?

>The album still
>has the same 11 songs as previously mentioned: (though not necessarilly
>in this order)

Huh? HUH? Might I ask where the HELL "Some Lovely (My Brown Guitar)" is?
And I'd really rather see "I Don't Wanna Be Here" on the list than
"Wounded Horse" but Andy's set in his ways and I haven't allowed WH to
really sink in yet anyway.

* ----------------------------------------------
Rich Bunnell or "Taoster Man"--No, it's not a typo
If you wish to E-mail, remove "SPAMSUCKS" from the address in the header
* ----------------------------------------------


Message-ID: <842C9E518CBFD2119501006097278BC50175BD@WALLACE>
From: Peter Walker <>
Subject: Honours System
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:54:14 -0000

Delurking if only to try to end this stuff about MBEs and so forth.

The four Beatles were given MBEs.

MBE = Member of the Order Of The British Empire.
OBE = Officer of the Order Of The British Empire.
CBE = Commander of the Order Of The British Empire.
KBE = Knight of the Order Of The British Empire. This is commonly referred
to as a knighthood (i.e. the one that allows you to call yourself Sir, and
the one that Paul McCartney was awarded more recently).

And there's lots of other ones mentioning Orders, Knights, and best of all,

Hope that clears that lot up.

Season's greetings,


Message-ID: <>
From: Pete Williams <>
Subject: Millennium
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 11:00:21 -0000

Confused about the millennium ? This will make it clearer

When to party:

(1) I'm still going to enjoy the party on 31st December this year, but if I
become one of the "self-appointed guardians of the "truth"" during next year
I can have another new millennium party next year. Two parties, one excuse,
sounds like a good deal to me.

(2) If I change religion and maybe move to another part of the world I can
look forward to other new millennium parties too - it's not even the same
year in the religious or civic calendars of 70 per cent of the world. Our
year 2000 will be the year 4698 in the Chinese calendar (the year of the
Dragon), 5760/61 in the Jewish calendar, 1421 in the Islamic calendar and
1922 (Sakra era) in the Indian calendar.

(3) Have something to really celebrate. A move to a bigger house for me or
the wife getting pregnant in 2000 would cause a serious party - easily more
exciting events than a change in the calendar.

Pete Williams
Chalet Maid
Blue Wave Holiday Camp


Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:25:38 -0500
From: erik schlichting <>
Subject: Dear God!


Tower records is featuring a make-your-own-custom-cd thingy,
and Sarah McLachlan's version of "Dear God" is the #2
alternative selection! What's going on here?

Of course, they don't really say how many selections that
actually is.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 10:52:40 -0600
From: Joe Funk <>
Subject: Re: Schmillennial Bullsh*t

Dom ranted:
> Is this so bad? Are we all,appalling fuckwits for not getting it
>right? No, we're,normal and perfectly entitled to treat Dec 31st
>1999,as the eve of a new millennium.  Naturally there will be a few
>self-appointed guardians of the "truth", with their snooty noses
>pointing skyward, mocking the foolish prematurity of the overwhelming
>majority of sentient beings, but hey, why let a few twats get you
>down?  Enjoy your party next year, pseudo-intellectual midgets that
>you are, and don't you dare join in this month's festivities. After
>all, it's not really the new millennium yet, is it? Christ on a bike!
>The things people get smug about.....

I think your " Smugness"  is showing a bit, pal!!  I think a lot of us
are sick and tired of all the hype and hoopla of this millenium being
shoved down our throat, and not even during the right year!!!!  I don't
think being smug has anything to do about it....  Let's celebrate the
New Year for what it is:  the last year of the 2nd Millenium.

Joe( the autist formerly known as Freddie Prinze) Funk
Joseph Funk
Equipment Maintenance Supervisor
Semiconductor Services


Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 09:58:39 -0800
From: "Brent Dougans" <>
Subject: bonus cuts on the CD's.

Martin wrote:

... since I never owned any XTC vinyl, the bonus tracks do not disrupt
the flow of the albums as much for me as for the old geezers on this list.
But yes, I've had a hard time getting into Mummer and Black Sea because
my ear immediately detected a break upon first listening, and this persisted.
The Big Express and English Settlement bonus tracks are very slight and
forgettable, and the 15-track Drums And Wires sounds great to me.

First off, English Settlement does not contain any bonus cuts.
It contains the original 2 LP set one one CD.
Being an "old geezer" who has been enjoying the music
of XTC for 20 years now........ yep 20 years....
the CD's with the bonus cuts in the middle are quite annoying.
When you grow up as a vinyl listener first, then get the CD's later,
you tend to link the tracks together as a cohesive unit.
The B-sides in the middle are like commercials
interrupting the flow of the original album.
They are easy enough to program out though.

Vinyl vs re-mastered CDs is another thing that bugs me.
An example is the re-mastered sex pistols CD of 'Bollocks'.
They took out all the quiet space between the songs that are
found on the vinyl pressing and crunched all the songs together
with no gaps between. It's annoying because the flow
of the music has changed from the familiar of the vinyl
pressing. But if you haven't heard the vinyl, you wouldn't
know any better.

All you younger folk on the list (as opposed to me.. an old geezer),
who grew up on CD's, don't tend to notice or care (nor should you)
the differences between vinyl and CD. Listening is a learned thing.
I grew up listening to vinyl and AM radio. Take an old 70's
AM radio hit, re-master it and play it to me on my stereo and
it sounds a little wierd. Too clean....too punchy....
My ear is used to listening to the song on an AM radio in the car
in mono. If I hear it on an oldies radio station, it sound familiar....
the way it used to.

Likewise, vinyl albums bought and listened to over and over again
sound interrupted when the CD issues put different stuff in the middle
of the disc. Yes... I am rambling.... I won't even get into the
'romance of vinyl' and the utilitarian feel of the CD.

People used to buy LPs because they had cool artwork etc....
Nowadays......not so much, but times change.

Everyone have a happy holidays. Enjoy the music.

Brent in foggy Vancouver.  Not ganga smoke either...


End of Chalkhills Digest #5-350

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