Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-327

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 327

                Saturday, 4 December 1999

Today's Topics:

                   Re : Good Riddens...
                  A school guide to XTC
                 Leaving so soon? Bummer!
                   The Meaning of Xmas
             Trampoline and flat-earthers we
                       xtc spotting
               Old memories, kids and films
                   Re: My Day, My Week
                 Re: It's Not Your Granma
                 Re: Favorite XTC Moments
               Aimee Mann (No XTC content)
                the country sounds of XTC
                        Thank God!
                     Terry and Ringo
                 Re: Two Kinds of Freedom


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Message-Id: <>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:06:21 +1000
Subject: Re : Good Riddens...

>>From: Satanas Diablo <>
>>Subject: Good Riddens...

>>I was defensive and I argued back, and maybe I
>>should have ignored them!  Even though and should not be followed by a

Sorry, I think I've just slipped into one.....


Message-ID: <000401bf3d52$b8d76640$d6e8a3c3@oemcomputer>
From: "Jonas Warstad" <>
Subject: A school guide to XTC
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:53:24 +0100

Book + CD coming out Jan 17th.

   A School Guide To XTC (+BOOK), CD $18.99
96 page guide to XTC, Dukes Of Stratosphear, solo works, compilations and
tributes. Includes photos, discography, story & interviews. CD tracks:
1.Star Park 2.Yabber Yabber Yabber 3.Saturn Boy 4.Walking 'Cross The
Ceiling 5.Neon Shuffle 6.Do You Really. Release Date: 17-Jan-00

I did not see this on your news page?

Best, Jonas Warstad


Message-ID: <>
From: Lawson Dominic <>
Subject: Leaving so soon? Bummer!
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 12:28:42 -0000

>>I am leaving though, as I said I would.

Ah, a man to be trusted. Good form!

>>Good riddens

No. Good riddance. And don't be blaming anyone else for this either - no one
has ever asked you to leave. In fact, I could conceivably have enjoyed your
presence on the list had you not behaved in such a uniquely hysterical
manner. Also, there's been a vague whiff of bullshit about this whole
palaver, particularly your oddly inconsistent spelling problem......hmmm,
conspiracy theories abound!......and the Charlie Buck thing absolutely
reeked of yarn-spinning. Still, only four weeks until Christmas and then
it's time for some real fairy stories! Birth of Jesus, my bottom - that
happened in May didn't it???

>>i have
cleaned it up considerably from when i first started posting here (am i
right, dom?).

You are right. Can't dispute that for a second. Damn.

I think there may be a moral to this whole sorry saga, but I also think that
I'm the last person who should comment. So I won't. However, it does strike
me that by claiming never to have lost a logical argument, Mr Dibble shot
both his own feet off and then staggered around on bloody stumps blaming
everyone else for his own lack of perception and humour. Jolly good fun!

Anyhoo, as the big, fat, overblown, who-gives-a-toss, anticlimactic farce
that is our millennium celebration lumbers over the horizon, it must be time
for my list of 1999's best albums. Not that any of you care, you callous
sods, but it's got to make a pleasant change from my mean-spirited and
ennervating snotfests. The weird thing is that when AV1 was released, I
immediately assumed that it would be a dead cert for my Top 5 of the year.
No such luck, pop kids, because this has been a belting twelve months, not
least in the world know what's coming don't you?......yes,
Heavy Twatting Metal!!!! Off-topic? Off with my head!

In reverse order for maximum scroll-down excitement! Hold on to your face!

10. XTC - Apple Venus Volume One (Cooking Vinyl)

9. The Black Crowes - By Your Side (American)

8. Cathedral - Caravan Beyond Redemption (Earache)

7. Goatsnake - I (Rise Above)

6. Kool Keith - Black Elvis/Lost In Space (Sony/Columbia)

5. Mr Bungle - California (Warner Bros)

4. Spratleys Japs - Pony (All My Eye & Betty Martin)

3. Cardiacs - Guns (Alphabet)

2. Iced Earth - Alive In Athens (Century Media)


...of course, all this bollocks will change as soon as I click on 'send',
and I haven't got the new Opeth album yet (obviously an essential purchase
for XTC fans the world over!) so XTC's position is looking a bit
precarious...but never fear, I'm plenty anal enough to make a top 20!
Check out the reviews at my site if you have even the slightest interest in
any of my choices...


Dom "Behold, The Armies Of War Descend Screaming From The Heavens!" Lawson


Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:12:24 EST
Subject: The Meaning of Xmas

<< one part of Christmas I can't
 work out (or its obvious and I've overlooked it) is why are there 12 days to
 the Christmas festival (13 if you count Christmas day) >>

I was always taught this had something to do with the arrival of the Three
Wisemen,  if this is the case, it may actually have to do with "The Star of
Bethlehem" (great Neil Young song, BTW).  But, these myths get so clouded
after a while.

So, as noted Christmas seems to be a mixture of many different traditions,
much like most of Christianity.  Hey, wasn't someone making this point to
debunk modern Paganism on this list?  I guess that person isn't too keen on
Christianity either.  Maybe it's not for an atheist to comment, but, maybe no
religion is truly right, but one should be allowed to believe in something,
anything, nothing.

Here, here, I still don't know how this song could be so overlooked, it was a
shame it was left off of "English Settlement" and barely gets recognition in
"Song Stories."  I guess they XTC just didn't like it that much.  It is
certainly one of my favorite songs.



Message-ID: <130CB597E04ED211B2A400104B93AAC47DF783@ESCORP1>
From: "Wiencek, Dan" <>
Subject: Trampoline and flat-earthers we
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:38:06 -0600

Tyler wrote:

> Some recent comments on Country music:
> Country music is a pretty narrow field for someone
> with diverse talent.
> That's for damn sure! Just ask the Mavericks-Their
> most recent (and best) album, Trampoline, branches way
> away from country into Beach Boys/Beatles/Byrds
> influenced rock, blues, gospel, etc. and sold far
> fewer than any of their other records.

A note to anyone who thinks that country music sucks: buy this album. It
was my favorite record last year and it's still in heavy rotation in my
playlist. Practically every song is a gem. And Raoul Malo has a terrific

The departed Diabolical One wrote:

I am was one of the only ones who noticed the earth was round

Having consulted numerous websites and encyclopediae in the wake of this
startling message (including NASA, Britannica, the New York Times, Salon,
and E! Online), I can confirm that the world is, indeed, round, and that
those of you refraining from taking long trips for fear of dropping off the
earth's surface can put your minds at ease. It is a pity that this
subscriber left us when he still obviously had so much to teach.

BTW, does anyone know what color the sky is? It seems predominantly a
peculiar derivation of green, but damned if I can put my finger on it ...

Really am was quite sarcastic today,



Message-ID: <000901bf3db9$18f337a0$2657883e@pbncomputer>
From: "chris browning" <>
Subject: xtc spotting
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:05:22 -0000

as i have been off work this week due to a prolonged bout of the screaming
abdabs or whatever, i have had plenty time to do much worthwhile stuff - but
have obviously chose the path of sitting in front of the hige widescreen tv
our landlord kindly provided for us, and watching the rubbish flung out by
digital television. among the detritus of television, i did take note of a
trailer for an admittely rather ropey looking sky premier called
"senseless". let's just say a very familiar xtc song made the whole advert
worth sitting through. not every day you hear xtc on mainstream television.
and no bad thing either...

also whilst trying to sleep listened to AV1 with no outside distractions.
and my what a difference undivided concentration gives to it! a whole new
dimension! i mean i knew it was a wonderful album alright but i just hadn't
realised the depth of the production and the orchestrations! the bit that
really blew me away was how the drops of water in "knights in shining karma"
become part of the rhythm of the song. and i also noticed that -
accidentally or not i don't know - the string arrangement for "i can't own
her" sounds a *hell* of a lot like the string arrangements for bits of colin
blunstone's "one year" - i mean the (and you'll have to patient here because
i know very little technical music stuff) cello (?) bits that descend after
the "but i can't own her..." and before "...and i never will" right? well
maybe i'm being anal but it is almost identical to the string arrangement
for "i can't live without you" - maybe i just don't get out enough.... ;-)

as for records of the year -

1. soft bulletin - flaming lips
2. apple venus 1 - xtc
3. eureka - jim o'rourke
4. guerilla - super furry animals
5. up a tree - looper

still waiting to hear the new robyn hitchcock, homer, gorky's, smog, beck
etc so by next year the list will obviously be completely different!

anyway enough rambling from me



Message-ID: <001201bf3dbf$44dc4f40$323363c3@default>
From: "David Seddon" <>
Subject: Old memories, kids and films
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 18:49:44 -0000

dan duncan asks:
>are there any other country music enthusiasts on this
>list besides me?

Well, I'm not one myself, but I grew up listening to the sounds of Grandpa
Jones in particular because my dad is a big fan and always wanted to see
him live.  Shame he died not long back.  I guess you become fond of stuff
that your parents played when you were a, I must play lots of XTC
to Alfie!!  If I get to do this part time teaching/job share thing soon I
can be a SAHD (stay at home dad) and play more XTC and actually get to play
my sax.

What songs did your parents play when you were young that bring back happy
memories?  Perhaps it's stuff from a genre that you don't like otherwise.
'Twould be interesting to hear people's ideas on this.
Folks have got ideas on a children's XTC album, I know, but I'd like to
know more which XTC tracks do your little angels/(maybe even) brats like?
The boy's could make up some good kiddie tunes I'm sure and one or two work
that way well already.

Also what's your fav film of the Millennium?

Guess I'd go for Harold and Maude.  Does anyone else love that film?
There's some great web sites on it like the e type jag hearse page:   It's great fun!

Cheers everyone, I'm having a few beers tonight and I'll raise a glass to
you all!

Dave Seddon


Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 12:17:27 -0700
From: "John Lerfald" <>
Organization: U S WEST Communications, Inc
Subject: Re: My Day, My Week

Hey Chris Vreeland Please post more of your refreshing observations!
I was considering unsubscribing to this list because of the negative
content until I read your post!
To me it doesn't matter so much that our posts on this list are short of
XTC content as that they are unpleasant. Admittedly, certain
individuals have inspired our ire but hopefully this has passed!
XTC comment: I found FRUIT NUT kind of annoying initially but the song
kind of grows on you! I'm particularly enjoying the HOMESPUN version
lately. It's right up there with SUPERGIRL as a really fun song to
listen to!


Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 12:29:07 -0700
From: "John Lerfald" <>
Organization: U S WEST Communications, Inc
Subject: Re: It's Not Your Granma

> Davidoh

Since you seem conscientious about your grammar/usage, I thought I
would risk petulance by asking:
Are you sure "vis-a-vis" is appropriate in the following sentence?

> lastly, to answer your question, vis-a-vis a cappella versions of xtc
> songs, as far as i know and can remember (and i'm no expert, either),
> unless someone else has done one, there are no a cappella songs as done
> by xtc. seeing as how you're a studio wiz, that would be an interesting
> project for you to consider - and you just might befriend and impress
> some of the nay-sayers and poo-poo-ers on this list. just a thought.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 22:41:17 EST
Subject: Re: Favorite XTC Moments

Steve Oleson asked for favorite XTC moments unfortunately I have four. I
tried to whittle it down to one, but gave up.

I love the whole song Snowman, but really love the absurd growl that Andy.
Colin's beautiful vocal on Sacrificial Bonfire. I've always loved Andy's
vocal for Love on a Farm Boy's Wages. Finally, Dave's shimmering guitar
solo in That's Really Super, Supergirl.

>reading the thread on Melt the Guns, I just find it interesting that
people can either hate or love a song based purely on the lyrics.

I always looked at the song as a desperate plea to prevent violence and
killing--a new twist on All You Need is Love. Like any great song it can
be seen a couple of ways. I've always seen the song as metaphorical first
as a plea to divorce ourselves of the need to do violence. While you can
listen to the song and interpret it literally, I thought that was always a
bit one dimensional. I've always seen a rich vein in Andy's music
suggesting that duality.

Then again, I'm always reminded of John Lennon's comments about
interpreting Beatles songs (particularly about I am the Walrus and Lucy in
the Sky with Diamonds). It's just a song folks.



Message-Id: <>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 23:22:15 -0500
From: Jason Long <>
Subject: Aimee Mann (No XTC content)

Francis wrote:
>And it's a little early, but since it now looks like the new Aimee Mann
>album won't be out until January, it's probably safe to say nothing's going
>to get bumped off my end-of-year top 20 favorites list, so here it is.

Be prepared to bump one off of your list. While you are correct that Aimee's
_Bachelor No. 2_ will not be out until January now, she does have nine songs
on the soundtrack for Magnolia, which will be released on Tuesday. Some of
the songs (a cover of "One," "Wise Up," and "Momentum," a rare b-side) have
been previously released, but the rest of the material is split between
songs that will also appear on _Bachelor No. 2_ ("Deathly," "You Do," and
"Driving Sideways," as well as an instrumental version of "Nothing is Good
Enough") and exclusive material ("Build That Wall" and "Save Me"). Maybe it
won't be quite as satisfying as an album of all-new material would be, but
this is one Aimee fan who will take whatever he can get after such a long
wait for a new release.




Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:52:18 -0500
From: Ben Gott/Loquacious Music <>
Subject: Albums


Yes, there were some great albums released this year, and I'd second the
opinions of others on the list as to what's the "Best Of..." (adding The
Cherry Orchard's marvelous "The Start of Our Affair" to the list).  As
for my favourite singles, I'd have to pick "Easter Theatre" (of course),
Filter's "Take A Picture" (who would've thunk it?...but check out the
Lillywhite-ish production on this song!), Babybird's "Back Together,"
REM's "At My Most Beautiful," and probably a few more.  Music is fun.

Wouldn't "We're All Light" be, like, the best choice for a single from
AV2?  Any takers?  It's a damn fine tune.

Exams eat me up.


     Benjamin Gott . Loquacious Music . Brunswick, ME 04011
AIM: Plan4Nigel . Telephone (207) 721-5366 . Mobile (207) 798-1859
     So wake up, wake up / It's that summer feeling of love...


Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 21:49:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Tyler Hewitt <>
Subject: the country sounds of XTC

My post asking about XTC country songs generated a few

 'Wounded Horse', one of Andy's more recent works is
done entirely in
poor lonesome cowboy fashion. Even the rather risque
lyrics are in
style and sung with just a hint of a Southern drawl.

--I've heard the Apple Venus demos,and I don't hear
country in "Wounded Horse".  It actually sounds more
bluesey to me, which by default makes it one of my
least favorite XTC songs ever (ok, I'm admitting that
I really HATE blues music and am prepared for the
inevitable abuse this admission will bring). I predict
that Wounded Horse will be the weAkest track on AV2.
There's nothing really interesting about it at all,
either lyrically or musically.

Probably quite a bit like "Shake You Donkey Up", no?
My dalliance in
Country extends only as far as liking Lyle Lovett (who
is undeniably
eclectic), so what do I know?

-- "Shake You Donkey Up" is closer, but still more
country scented rock than actual country to my ears.
Oh, I agree about Lyle Lovett-a trully stellar
songwriter, he possesses a great talent.  He is
eclectic-his album Joshua Judges Ruth has more gospel,
folk and rock on it than country (buy it-it's

Have a good listen to "Scarecrow People"

--"Scarecrow People" is about as country as Copland's
"Rodeo". In other words, not very.

All three of these are  rock songs in style and rhythm
with possibly a little nod in the direction of
Nashville.  What I think would sound strange is a full
fledged tears in your beer country tune from XTC.

One more thing:
Iain wrote:
They're both  (Costello and Jackson) good in their own
way, and they've both had their
misfires -"Big World" comes to mind for JJ...

Say it aint so, Iain! I really like Big World a lot!
Most of the songs are pretty good, the only misfire is
the lame recording process involved.  Laughter & Lust
is a better example of a misfire, IMHO.

I agree with your opinion that they are both good in
their own way. When the dust clears on the whole new
wave thing and the world can assess them in a more
objective fashion, my guess is that COstello will be
regarded as more important.


Message-ID: <386591970.944287667315.JavaMail.root@web05.pub01>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 01:07:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeremy Cargill <>
Subject: Thank God!

Thank God the Satanas thing is over!  Or is it?  None of you are letting it
end.  What I find funny with the whole thing is all you morons who
participated in the arguments!  Those of you who kept fighting with him were
the cause of the problems to begin with!  I sat here reading post after post
you while you guys instigated and tried to out-articulate each other while
sweating buckets of Testosterone filled sweat.

Sure, I found his posts ridicules and his name quite irritating.  I for one,
love meat and am a devout Christian who teaches pre-school at my church.
However, I watched as over and over he tried to stop and none of you would
let him.  You just edged him on to fulfill something missing in your life.
What I would suggest is to read the bible and learn to love those we hate.
A matter of fact, how I became a fan of XTC was the song "Dear God."  Prior
to that, I never liked them.

I was so upset when I first heard it, now its one of my favorite songs.  It
gives me faith that the people out there who have not yet found the lord are
still looking.  Otherwise they would not be calling his name!  To make my
last point, move on to something else and stop making the 'real Satan"
smile!  Oh, and my last XTC comment of the day:

AV1 shows so much improvement over their old stuff.  I don't like anything
by XTC prior to Skylarking.


Message-ID: <001d01bf3e63$70fa4ec0$6d5791d2@johnboud>
From: "John Boudreau" <>
Subject: Terry and Ringo
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 23:13:44 +0900

somebody wrote :

>similarly war dance gets slagged off by people but i love the feel to it and
>the little oboe thing in it so to me it's good.

yass ... one of my fave tracks on nonsuch ... mattacks' always tasty
drumming also makes this a gem ...

>>Who is
>>your favorite member of XTC and why?
>Terry Chambers - the guy carried the group for five years. They haven't had
>the same heavy rhythms since he left, because there's very few drummers
>who could emulate his particular sound

Sitting here on a sunny Saturday afternoon listening to Paul Culnane's
1998 interview with Terry ... TC definitely had a unique drumming style
which was an essential part of the XTC sound on their first five albums ;
and his energy obviously was infectious . He was playing off the wall
fills and beats NOBODY else was doing at the time . Like Ringo before him
, his metre was almost metronomic ... Speaking of Ringo and metre ;
Ringo's "feel" for the beat still serves as a standard for pop-rock record
producers and drummers alike. It is relaxed, but never dragging. Solid,
yet always breathing. And yes, there is a great amount of musical taste in
his decisions of what to play and when to play it. In most recording
sessions, the drummer's performance acts as a barometer for the rest of
the musicians.  The stylistic direction, dynamics, and emotions are
filtered through the drummer. He is the catcher to whom the
pitcher/songwriter is throwing. If the drumming doesn't feel good, the
performance of any additional musicians is doomed from the start. The
Beatles rarely if ever had this problem with Ringo. Also , Ringo hated
drum solos ( have a feeling Terry did , too ) , which should win points
with quite a few people. He only took one solo while with the Beatles. His
eight measure solo appears during "The End" on the "B" side of Abbey
Road. Some might say that it is not a great display of technical
virtuosity, but they would be at least partially mistaken. You can set an
electronic metronome to a perfect 126 beats per minute, then play it along
with Ringo's solo and the two will stay exactly together !! Ringo never
used a click track in those days either .

Seasons Greetings ,

John in Buddhaland

Ringo's ability to play odd time signatures


Message-Id: <l03130304b46ef99768f3@[]>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:39:43 -0500
From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <>
Subject: Re: Two Kinds of Freedom

>Chris, there are two kinds of freedom - freedom FROM and freedom TO. What
>libertarians *really* endorse (consciously or otherwise) under the spurious
>guise of "freedom from government" is in fact freedom TO - such as the
>freedom to carry guns, which underpins the freedom to enforce social
>control, to intimidate, exploit, rob, oppress and murder.
>I advocate freedom FROM - from intimidation, murder, disease, poverty,
>violence, inequality. But we're not gonna get anywhere near it until we find
>a way to remove guns - and their implicit threat of violence and death -
>from our society, and render all people a little more equal by making sure
>no-one has the power to push their world view on others by armed force.
>I think I'll be waiting a while ....

  Dunks, I advocate both freedom from AND freedom to. Personally, a world
without guns would suit me just fine, but how are you going to enforce it?
Practically speaking, you can wish for all the guns to go away, and all the
laws you pass in the world won't make it happen. If there were a way we can
keep guns out of the hands of criminals, who are the main reason we think
we need gun control, I'd advocate it in a minute, but the war against guns
is as futile as the war on drugs. In the United States, anyway. It
interests me that so many in the music business are against the war on
drugs but don't see a parallel in the firearms issue. Illicit drugs kill
just as much as guns do. Just think about it. I don't expect you to agree
with me, but just think about it. Too many tow the party line and swallow
the sound bites they hear in the media and don't dig deeper. It's not as
simple as "Guns/drugs/whatever else are bad, get rid of them," there's many
more layers than that, I'd just rather err in the direction of greater
freedom for all when it comes to a difficult decision on a complex issue.
  Incidentally, I'm no fan of Ayn Rand, she gives libertarians a bad name
in my opinion. She's an old school free market objectivist; I'm more of a
borderline anarchist who's recognised that we need government on a limited
basis. Somebody needs to fix the roads, print money, and provide a national
defense more along the lines of Switzerland than the current American
world's policeman role. If Andy wants to "Melt The Guns," that's his
opinion, but I think he's dead wrong on that one. But I also have to
remember that guns are not a real important aspect of European culture.
Andy is guilty of grossly underestimating the hold that guns have on
American culture. In order to take guns away from every American citizen,
each confiscation would have to be registered in some great national
database, and the resulting information could be used to further violate
the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens, either intentionally or
inadvertently, and meanwhile criminals, who mostly got their guns illegally
to begin with, laugh at our ineffectual efforts. I don't want to live in a
country where only criminals and the police have guns.
  In short, Dunks, I advocate both freedom for law-abiding citizens to
either carry a gun if they so choose, and freedom from guns for those like
myself who choose not to posess one. That may be as unenforceable as any
gun control measure you could suggest, but hey, like you I can dream, can't
  I'll give you an example that provides food for thought; a certain group
of rednecks somewhere in rural America heard about a pagan gathering in the
woods and decided they'd get their guns and go harass this group of witchy
people. Upon arrival at the gathering they found themselves looking down
the barrel of several hunting rifles brandished by the pagans in question.
Apparently these pagans were expecting trouble and came prepared. The
rednecks turned tail and fled.  I realise not all pagans are into guns, but
sometimes when you're a member of a group that gets trouble from people who
don't like your way of life, you have to protect yourself any way you can.
If you can find a way to see to it that nobody in the United States or
anywhere else has access to a gun for any reason, I'd have no problem with
it, I can live in a world without guns quite happily. But I don't believe
it can be done, and I believe that any attempt to regulate guns out of
existence will do more harm than good.

(stepping off soapbox)

Christopher R. Coolidge

Homepage at

"A Great law protects me from the government. The Bill of rights has
10 GREAT laws.  A Good law protects me from you.  Laws against murder,
theft, assault and the like are good laws.  A Poor law attempts to
protect me from myself."  - Unknown


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