Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-278

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 278

                  Friday, 8 October 1999

Today's Topics:

                       Spy vs. Spy
               What's Andy's "instrument"?
              Spinning The Tale On The Ocean
                      fuzzy warbles
                  Ariadne, The Thread !
               Public Service Announcement
                   the cover of mummer
             Re: homespun a lost opportunity
                       Minster Hill
              rumours of my return... pt. 2
 attn: toronto area chalkhillians, plus a little addition
                XTC fans - "racists"?????
                      SAY WHAT?????
                 Open ms. to Charlie Buck
                       Charlie Buck
             Unlearn what you have learned...
                         re: Dad


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Although we held the whip, you knew we were / The real slaves.


Message-Id: <>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:39:55 -0400
Subject: Spy vs. Spy
From: "Duncan Watt" <>

okay, if you haven't been following this, you're not gonna get it, so I'll
avoid the big cut-and-paste and e-con-o-mize:

Harrison said, quoting Me:

>>Duncan Watt was perfectly right when he objected,
>>>Didn't Bowie's art, great as it was, come at a price? The
>>>very quote marks he put around the words Pop Music, while creating a
>>>horrible and fascinating new reality for the user, rob them of their
>>>gravity, Rupert Murdoch-ing them back to Frivolity, taking the blood-rush
>>>out of the most holy word in the canon, Love, taking the flesh-tear out
>>>of the word Hate, re-assigning the Real Emotion detail to the

...and The Original Duncan shot back:

> Say what??
> Yeah, yeah, pop will eat itself, yadda yadda, yadda. (BTW - kind of a
> sexist remark about "Girl" singers, Duncan ol' pal). (snip)

...and I'm not going to try and explain the whole idea, but I've got to rise
to the 'sexist' bait. So...

The 'Girl-Singer-Songwriters' remark is the *opposite* of sexist.
They're(pretty much) the only brave ones still making the 80 proof single
malt Real Unironic Music. Sexist would be saying that only the thin ones
should *sell* any. My point is, since I'm not a twenty-something Starbucks
womanchild, who's talking to me? And how are they going to reach me with the
music distribution situation the way it stands now?

(quick 'duh' answers: AP's talking to me, and TVT is responsible for
bringing it to me, duh. But if it wasn't for this list, I'd've *maybe* heard
"I'd Like That" twice while driving, and there's NO WAY I would've gotten
that I could've heard the likes of "Easter Theater" et al. on the CD unless
I was already a fan. So how does someone EVEN KNOW IT EXISTS when anything
less than "I did it all for the nookie" induces the dreaded Cringe Factor?)

oh, and one more thing(my doppelganger again):

> (snip)What is this - Rock Revisionism 101?. Let's consdider
> Duncan's thesis as applied to the Sex Pistols, shall we?
> First: when did the words "Pop Music" ever have any "gravity" to be robbed
> of? I have to say - with all due respect to my namesake's eloquence - that
> this really over-intellectualises the whole thing right up its own
> fundament.

...which is precise-ly my Question: If the only readily available and
promoted music on radio, TV and in the stores in America is Pop Music, and
Pop Music isn't big enough to include intellectual art, where the hell does
that leave intellectual art?

Duncan "I rather *like* my fundament" Watt


Message-Id: <s7fcac86.090@OAG.STATE.TX.US>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 14:21:42 -0600
From: "Steve Oleson" <Steve.Oleson@OAG.STATE.TX.US>
Subject: What's Andy's "instrument"?

Toward the end of "The Last Balloon" Andy's voice seems to metamorphose
into a trumpet solo. Generally speaking, other singers' voices remind me of
musical instruments.

I've always thought of Tony Bennett as a sax, and Sinatra as a trumpet.

Andy's voice has changed so much that it is hard to think of him as
sounding like any individual instrument. What do you Chalkhillians think
his voice resembled in the early 1980s?, late 1970s, 1990s?

Are there any other singers' voices that remind you of instruments?

How about David Sylvian?

Steve "the kazoo" Oleson
Austin, TX

PS- My real musical instruments? a 1959 Telecaster, and a nice Alvarez /
Yayeri (sp?) classical guitar, and a nice mandolin Jill gave me.


From: "Michael Versaci" <>
Subject: Spinning The Tale On The Ocean
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 15:39:27 -0400
Message-ID: <000001bf10fb$ab8acfa0$>


A few years after John Lennon's unfortunate appointment with a crazed
ex-fan's second amendment rights, his oft-maligned widow found herself in a
quandary:   She had in her possession hundreds of hours of unreleased music
recorded by "The Late Great Johnny Ace."  She knew that if she officially
released the music, she would be chastised and accused of exploitation, but
if she did not release the music, she would then be guilty of hoarding these
historical artifacts from his loyal fans.  Eventually a good cross-section
of these recordings were released on "The Beatles Anthology" and "The John
Lennon Anthology" collections, but at the time she decided to broadcast them
on the "Lost Lennon Tapes" syndicated radio program.

When it comes to the XTC demos, obviously there is a limited amount of
interest among the masses, so Andy and Colin agreed to have their demos
released by Cooking Vinyl and TVT records.  So far, TVT hasn't ordered any
of their henchmen to come to my home and coerce me into to buying
"Homespun."    I can find no reason to assail the record company or the band
for making these demos available, and while I do own some good quality
bootlegs of these songs, I am anxious to buy the "official" release.

To me, recorded music has the highest return on investment of any
entertainment item that can be purchased.  I probably have spent under $300
all told on XTC's music, and continue to enjoy it month after month, year
after year.   It seems to me that Andy, Colin, Dave, and Terry  (OK, Barry
too!)  have been severely underpaid for their efforts.  I remain perplexed
by people who are somehow offended at the prospect of Andy and Colin earning
a few extra pounds by making available an item that I will most assuredly
enjoy for many years to come.

*  *   *

Mr. Dunks had many things to say in his attempt at matching wits with
Harrison Sherwood, but the one that I found most puzzling was the following:

>I'm sure they wanted to thumb their noses at the likes of Yes, Genesis,
etc? Who can blame them >-I'll take "Never Mind The Bollocks" over "Tales
 From Topographic Oceans" anyday.

This seems ironic to me as I see many uncanny parallels between Mr. Dunk's
posting style and the music from the "Tales From Topographic Oceans"
collection.  I would have guessed based on his previous contributions to
Chalkhills that he would have counted it (along with the entire Sting
catalogue) as his "Sgt. Pepper."

Michael Versaci

"C'mon Toto, get off my leg!  You've got to remember we're not in Kansas

Kevin Gilbert

"How about 'Get Your Yo Yo's Out' or 'More-o of the Same-o'?"

Andy Partridge suggesting a title for the (then) as-yet-untitled next Police


Message-ID: <>
From: "garret harkawik" <>
Subject: fuzzy warbles
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 17:16:38 EDT

Just what the hell is "Fuzzy Warbles"?


Message-ID: <>
From: "Andrew Gowans" <>
Subject: Ariadne, The Thread !
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 07:59:27 EST

Mornin' All,

Some unexpected connectedness in some of the diverse threads has sprung to
mind. I'm still catching up on a few back issues, @ 22 Sept.

I'm pleased that my birthday is in close proximity to Dave's, I wasn't
aware of that. I received a couple of CD's as gifts - The Beatles' Yellow
Submarine Soundtrack and The Church's A Box of Birds. Now, YSS has recieved
some attention in the list, generally favourable, but it has a connection
to the Church CD...they cover "It's All Too Much". They also cover John
Foxx/Ultravox's "Hiroshime Mon Amour", he's has some mention in the lists,
The Monkees "Porpoise Song", ditto, and Bowie's "All The Young Dudes",
ditto ditto. Also, Bowie covered Sorrow a line of which is famously quoted
by George Harrison at the end of IATM.

Talking of The Church and IATM - I read this morning that Steve Kilbey has
been busted in NY for trying to buy some heroin. Stupid bastard ! Somewhere
someone said that your idols shouldn't have feet of clay.

XTC content - my youngest son (10 months and I saw him crawl for the first
time yesterday------MAGIC) likes DOD to sing "Knights in Shining Karma"
(badly) to him as a lullaby. At least I like to think the smiles I get are
in appreciation of the song and my efforts and not wind.

Oops ! In my last post I think I accidently stuck an "&" inside the title
of "Fruit Nut". As Jasper Carrott succinctly puts it - "Sorry,
sorry. Anyone can make a mistake. As the Dalek said climbing off the

Ciao etc..
Andrew "&" Gowans
"X,Y,Z and Ampersand all wished for a piece in hand" - Trad.


From: "Michael Versaci" <>
Subject: Public Service Announcement
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:28:51 -0400
Message-ID: <000001bf1113$55ec3ee0$>


We interrupt this edition of Chalkhills to bring you the following special

The remixed  tracks from the new "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" sound superb.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled tom-foolery.

Michael Versaci

And wait until you hear "Only A Northern Song."  They must have had a
time-machine and used it to spy on the Dukes during their legendary
recording of "What In The World!"


Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:39:44 -0700
Subject: the cover of mummer

as i was sitting at my table last nite, finishing up tyler's tape, i
looked up at the xtc shelf (yes, i have a seperate shelf for them) and
saw the three shadows looming across the cover of 'mummer'. what i
wonder is is that an actual photograph of the lads casting shadows
across a big piece of crumpled paper? and is it actually them, or did
they get shadow stunt doubles to model for the album cover? "...and
here, this is me on the cover of this xtc album. i'm on the left, i
think i was supposed to be colin...."
the things one wonders about late at nite.
'big express' is sinking fast to the bottom of my most favorite xtc
albums list. i realized this just recently when for about the thousandth
time i picked it up, looked at the track list and put it down for
something else. rant, rave, scream and flame away, but i just don't dig
that album anymore. if the xtc canon is a big turkey dinner, b.e. is the
brussel sprouts. (and let me just run the entire way with this and say
that english settlement is the turkey, mummer is the stuffing, nonsuch
is the cranberry sauce, o&l the candied yams, black sea the mashed
potatoes and av1 the gravy - anyone else? oh! i almost forgot
skylarking; the wine! and the dukes are bringing dessert)
does homespun have 'how greenman came to be' on it?

I have touched the grass so green
on the other side,
dan, the elitist, unhelpful, off-topic grammar snob

ps: tyler, i'll send that tape out to you asap. it's a good'un


Message-ID: <01f501bf111c$557a5420$50d30f3f@tim63>
From: "Tim Kendrick" <>
Subject: Re: homespun a lost opportunity
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:33:16 -0400

Hi everyone!

Warren said:
   >regarding the homespun release as commented
   >by others I have to agree this
   >seems a slightly confusing move by the record company.
   >who is it aimed at exactly?

Diehard fans (especially Chalkhillians).

   >The completists may buy it but judging
   >fron the comments previously they
   >already have it albeit slightly poorer quality.

But we don't have the packaging, all the notes on the songs
(almost a continuation of "Song Stories") and most of us
don't have either of the Colin demos.  And there are 2 different
demos included of both "I'd Like That" and "Harvest Festival" -
one of the "final" demo many have us have heard and also
a very "rough-cut"/"first-cut" of the song!  Just that in itself I find
worth the price!!!

   >Whilst people like myself who want
   >new xtc material just find it boggling

Hey, I want new XTC material as well.  But since it will be another
5 - 6 months before AV2, at least this is something.

   >that we are expected to buy virtually the same album

You're not "expected" to buy anything.  This is a limited release, not
intended for everyone, but only completists like myself.

And what's wrong with Andy and Colin wanting to make a little extra
money off their work?  The demo tapes were distributed without their
permission.  They got no money off of them.  They probably figured
"well, if fans want to hear the demos that badly, let's at least
get something for it".  And I don't blame them.

I'm really VERY happy with my copy of Homespun.
It's not for everyone, but those who get it I think will enjoy it.

         Tim K.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:12:49 EDT
Subject: Minster Hill

Hi people!!

I can appreciate Wes' opinion about Minster Hill...but excuse me when I say
that Minster Hill's cd is AMAZING and definitely my favorite(with Apple
Venus) of this amazing year!!!!  What a purchase, and thanks to Bruce(at
Not Lame) for this wonderful recommendation!!!!

Wes, how could the song "Let's All Sing our Song" not keep you humming
estactically for the next 365 years???  Incredible!!  Honestly, I don't
even think Andy has come up with a melody that drop-dead hummable in the
last 15 years...If so point me that way.

Don't get me wrong XTC is my favorite band, but Minster Hill has just been
added to my short laundry list of bands that I must purchase anything and
everything that they have out... Certainly blows away anything out from
Yazbek !!!(IMHO :-)))!!

  By the way, does anyone out there know what
else they may have released???

Wes, you probably had just a couple of beers too many :-) What specifically
is it with the mix that bothers you??  ..Did you get a load of the
lyrics(which are, I think, the strong suit of the band...yes even more than
the melodies which are too fab) and post back..

Wes, I also after one listen, thought it was just good...ok maybe
great..same with two listens but after that it has not left my
player-awesome (did I say that already?!).

PEOPLE GET THIS CD!!!!  (I got mine also at notlame)

Bobbi and Joey Sallott


Message-Id: <>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:37:34 -0400
From: David Oh <>
Subject: rumours of my return... pt. 2

after my first posting in 6 months, i was well pleased when i received a
few "welcome back" messages. it's nice to know that there are some out
there who appreciated and missed my posts. those people are:

jefferson ogata
jennifer ralston
keith clark

thank you for the personal messages.

"if you celebrate mediocrity, you get mediocrity" - frank zappa

 \            \     _
  \  /\ \  /|  \   / \ |_|
/__\/ _\ \/ |/__\  \_/ | |


Message-Id: <>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:40:34 -0400
From: David Oh <>
Subject: attn: toronto area chalkhillians, plus a little addition

i was in tower records (yes, the same place as the andy/av1 signing party
back in feb.) today (99-10-07) & asked when "homespun" will be released.
the tower worker bee checked the computer & told me the tvt release is set
for tuesday, october 12. so, for those who are interested in it, mark that
day on your calendar.

also, there were a couple of names left off of my list of favourite
drummers & i would like to add them here (a couple of them were obvious
ones, so please forgive me...):

prairrie prince (like, duh!), pat mastelotto (ditto), dave mattacks (again)
and neil peart.

the last one i must explain: i hate rush's music, especially geddy lee's
voice. however, they are all good musicians & neil peart is a very
technically accomplished batteur. sorta like how i feel about phil collins...

anyroad, hope this finds you all well & happy.

"if you celebrate mediocrity, you get mediocrity" - frank zappa

 \            \     _
  \  /\ \  /|  \   / \ |_|
/__\/ _\ \/ |/__\  \_/ | |


Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:32:18 EDT
Subject: Drums

Hey Chalkies,

David Oh proffered his picks, in #272, of his favorite list of bands,
guitarists, bassists, etc., for his versions of his "Sgt. Peppers."

To address his Drummers' list:

I would tend to re-think that list David.  Moon, Bruford, and Phillips
...yes.  I would put Chester Thompson before P.C., and add a few: Buddy
Rich, Louie Boulson, Neal Peart, and Billy Cobham.  The significance of
Rich and Boulson, especially the latter, are incredibly important, due to
the double-kick bass influences as seen by Billy and Neal, and the
rudimentary style exhibited by Terry C., the Cat, and Bruford, Thompson,
and of course S.  Phillips...who incidentally, has some brilliant licks on
Townsends' music.  Food for thought.

Cheers all...

John Gardner


Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:46:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Giovanni Giusti <>
Subject: XTC fans - "racists"?????

> "Charlie Buck" <> wrote:

> few people, 2 of whom called me an "ignorant nigger" after finding
> out that
> I was black.  One made the comment that I should stay out of the list
> because he did not want it becoming "Nearly Africa."


I cannot believe this really happened. I hope that you will not think
that all, or even the majority of, XTC fans are like that.

I did make a few sarcastic comments on your first "what are these
albums" message myself, I admit, but I could never condone (not to
speak of sharing) racist thought. Just because there are a few pathetic
jerks on this mailing list (and there are bound to be some, as in any
random gathering of humans), it does not mean that all of us are.

I have always found, in fact, XTC fans to be particularly gentle and

So please don't be put off by a few idiots, ignore them and stay on.


Re: Dave Gregory's web site

Being apparently blessed with the latest and newest of browsers, I had
no problem accessing Guitargonauts. However, I was a bit disappointed
by the contents.

Either I missed the goodies, or I cannot find a lot of interesting
things in it. (Donning the asbestos suit.)



Message-ID: <>
From: "Duncan Kimball" <>
Subject: SAY WHAT?????
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 02:35:46 PDT

First and most important

Re: "Charlie Buck". I am assuming that Charlie's  email is for real (tho I
really wish it was not):

I am absolutely outraged, disgusted and sickened that anyone from this list
would use racial slurs. And to twist the title of "Nearly Africa" in that
way is nothing short of depraved.

"Charlie" - you know who these people are - I strongly suggest that you pass
on their names to John Relph ASAP. I for one have NO problem whatsoever with
having these racist scum banned from the list immediately! There is NO place
on this list for that kind of sick, twisted bullshit. I am ashamed that
members of this list would act in such a disgusting manner, and I for one
would like to apologise to Charlie. I hope you don't think this reflects in
any way the feelings of XTC or XTC fans in general.

What would Andy think? I'm really, really saddened by this.


Todd: Re the Bowie thing - I take your point to an extent, but I was really
talking about US "rock" in the "post-Ziggy" era. The Velvets clearly
predated Ziggy (he namechecked them on "Hunky Dory", and covered "White
Light, White Heat" at the final Ziggy show), so I think he owes them rather
than the other way around, which I think I alluded to before.

I would certainly say that  Iggy comes under the same heading. What Bowie
obviously did was to synthesise elements from both acts in his image; I
don't know how well known Iggy or the Velvets were in the UK ca. 1971, but I
doubt they were any better known that in the USA (i.e. pretty much cult
acts) so I guess he pretty much broke that kind of presentation in the UK.

New York Dolls? Yeah, possibly - I'm really not familiar enough with their
music or their history to say for sure, but I guess it's conceivable that
they took on some of Bowie's ideas, although I don't think they were
approaching it in anything like the same way.

The one act I would be interested to hear opinions about in this little
digression is Alice Cooper. I'm not sure when he kicked off with the full
"Alice" image, but from memory it was before the Ziggy period. I know his
first LP was produced by Zappa (and he made a lovely tribute to Frank when
he died), and I think he and Bowie were pretty much contemporary. Any



Message-ID: <001801bf1177$415da5e0$29a0a8c0@sigta>
From: "Chris Clarke" <>
Subject: Open ms. to Charlie Buck
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:21:58 +0100

I don't post that often but...

Charlie if you are still listening...

Whilst I am horrified to hear that people have been throwing insults at you
based on the colour of your skin, it is unfortunately inevitable that in
any large gathering of people you'll get a few of the dregs of this world
filtering in. You shouldn't have to suffer because of it but unfortunately
you have.  Please don't taint all of us because of their ignorant

On the subject of your mailings being ridiculed because of grammar and
spelling, whilst I can see this could be irritating, you're not the first
and you won't be the last. Believe me, it's nothing personal. You should
have been here when Dom was at his peak instead of the faded, jaded old
wreck he has now become ;-)

I hope if you are reading this that you decide to stay on the list, because
some of the stuff here is excellent, the recent battleclash between Messrs.
Sherwood and Kimball being a fine example.

Also, as has been pointed out by others, I believe you received various
offers of help with your albums problem.

On another subject : Winky Fish - I went back and reread #5-266 as you
suggested.  I think it's best everyone just stays silent, don't you ;-).

I'll shut up now.



Message-ID: <>
From: Pete Williams <>
Subject: Charlie Buck
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:47:16 +0100

I can't believe what I've just read.

Is it true that one of more members of this mailing list:

(a) Were petty enough to correct the grammar of another's posting
(b) Used the racially offensive term "ignorant n*gger"
(c) Would want another member of the list to leave because of the colour of
their skin.

Are Charlie's accusations true? I want to know the content of the email
conversations between Charlie and these other members to judge for myself.
Would members of this list want anyone guilty of points (a), (b) and (c) to
remain part of the list?

I don't know from what part of the world Charlie is from but I don't make
the assumption that everyone posting to this list has the English language
as their mother tongue or is even a fluent English speaker. As a result I
don't expect grammatically correct English in postings and don't want to
waste my life correcting the 'mistakes' of others.

Pete Williams
Hinckley, Leicestershire, UK


Message-Id: <>
From: "Mark R. Strijbos" <>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:42:04 +0200
Subject: Troll?

Dear Chalkers,

Charlie Buck wrote:
>    After mixing up the words "Seen" and Saw" and sharing a few emails
>    with a few people, 2 of whom called me an "ignorant nigger" after
>    finding out that I was black. One made the comment that I should
>    stay out of the list because he did not want it becoming "Nearly
>    Africa."

To be honest i have a very hard time believing this. As a matter of fact i
have a hard time believing Charlie actually exists IRL... is this perhaps
another prank by the unstoppable Harrison "Tolkien 'Bout My
Generation" Sherwood?

>   I see the kind of fans XTC has and its unfortunate.

now i really object to being implicated by association!
even if there really are some racist fools on this list, that's no reason to
assume we all are - that's just bigotry in reverse.

yours in xtc,

Mark Strijbos @ The Little Lighthouse


Message-Id: <l03130300b42394e81c67@[]>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:22:06 -0400
From: MinerWerks <>
Subject: Unlearn what you have learned...

This seems to be getting a bit out of hand...

>From: "Charlie Buck" <>
>Subject: I'm leaving. Thanks for the welcome.
>I had the misconception that XTC fans would be somewhat intellectuals.  Not
>the "i'm smarter then you" intellectuals that this list turned out to be,
>but helpful, intelligent, intellectuals who like to communicate with other
>people who share similar interests.

I suppose I'm wasting my breath... er, risking carpal tunnel syndrome for
nothing, since Charlie has decided to leave us. If he were here, I'd appeal
to him to be more patient. I've always found the members of this list to be
helpful and intelligent. Judging us all as "I'm smarter than you" types is
a broad generalization.

>After mixing up the words "Seen" and Saw" and sharing a few emails with a
>few people, 2 of whom called me an "ignorant nigger" after finding out that
>I was black.  One made the comment that I should stay out of the list
>because he did not want it becoming "Nearly Africa."

This sounds highly unusual for this list, and sounds like something
Internet trolls would write to stir up trouble. If you want to get the best
out of this list, that's a very bad way to come across.

If anything, Chalkhills is the least likely place on the internet to get
criticized for grammar and spelling. I've had people read things I wrote in
newsgroups and respond with nothing but a list of the incorrect grammar
they found in the post. It's going to happen everywhere on the Internet,
and a lot worse than anything you may have gotten here!

>1.  I guess my last post was kept out of the list so no one read my
>comments.  Good to show censorship to me, but let spammers get through.
>Thanks to all the great fans who send me hate male and 2 the two people who
>keep sending me letters calling me "nig*er" after finding out I was black.

Again, patience! There is no censorship on this list, and the digests are
not instant!

>>>it would be a nice gestrue for XTC to maybe tell me what
>>>possible albums it could have been. I would buy them and they would get >
>>>paid some well deserved royalties!
>>Um, neither Andy or Colin read this, so XTC couldn't answer your question
>>Charlie because they didn't see it.
>Oh, my grammer was wrong again.  I meant, it would be a nice gesture for
>XTC, if you, the fans, would tell me what albums, blah blah blah.  See, I
>guess I am a dumb "ni**er" for not adding good punctuiation.  Sorry, I will
>leave the list now.

I have a very tollerant attitude toward people's language on the Internet.
A lot of people write casual notes with sentence fragments and leave out
puncutation or capitalization. Fine - I'm all for it, as long as they  can
still *communicate.* BUT, if someone chooses to communicate in a vague
manner intentionally and then get angry and flippant because they were
misunderstood, then I have NO sympathy. This is akin to someone expecting
me to be sorry they have no place to live when they burned their house down
on purpose.

Hopefully we can all learn something from this...

I once knew someone who showed a lot of the attitude we've seen from
Charlie. In college, I had an experience with this guy who subscribed to
the "Punk as Hell" ideal. He started an "alternative" to our campus
newspaper which, not surprisingly, took a very critical attitude toward
campus politics. As a member of the Campus Activities Board, I was at least
peripherally involved with these politics. Our group was given money to
plan activities for the students. Not everything went well in our
committees, and this newspaper criticized us for wasting money that came
from the students. After one particularly vicious column, I decided to try
reasoning with the guy, and I wrote him a stern but thoughtful email
presenting our case and arguing that he might want to become involved with
our organization as a way to constructively change the situation. Well, he
wrote back rather surprised and agreeable. He understood my points and I
thought we had come to somewhat of an understanding. Unfortunately, the
next email he got was an angry one from the president of the activities
board and that ended any "understanding" I had managed to achieve.

Okay, now I could blame the usually levelheaded president of our
organization for responding in such a manner, but I don't fault her. Her
actions arose from the desire to defend our board. His response to her and
then to me only defended his right to be angry. That proved he wasn't
interested in solving the problem, he was just interested in the conflict.
Lest anyone think I'm generalizing, there are other issues on which this
person spoke volumes and achieved nothing. There are a lot of people out
there in the world who are like that, and thankfully, we haven't seen them
in Chalkhills.

I'd like to be wrong, but I think we did just see one.

= Derek =


Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 09:21:09 -0700
From: Dan Phipps <>
Organization: CIC
Subject: re: Dad

Dad peacefully passed away this morning
at 2:34...Just thought you should know.

/Dan Phipps <>

"All we are saying is give peace a chance!"
(John ///o-o\\\ Lennon)


End of Chalkhills Digest #5-278

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