Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-255

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 255

                 Thursday, 26 August 1999

Today's Topics:

                       Some things
                     Something Phishy
            on ES & Townshend's solo work &tc
                Re: Slagging Dave Gregory
                   Favorite ES moments
                        ES moments
Re: talking about XTC is like dropping acid with a Giant Cockroach
                 SHEESH Give DG a Break!!
                  Re: Chocolate Pastiche
                  Uffington Horse Shirts
                     Molly has spoken
                         A moment
                        Brand new
                        Iron Giant
           who shot the Borders Chicago video?
                        Y107 rocks
                 Jason and the Argonauts
                   Dancing about quotes
               Gregsy's Geeky Muppet Sailor
                   Insert Foot In Mouth
                 I'd Like That CD Single
                     ES on the cheap


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7 (John Relph <>).

I have watched the manimals go buy.


Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:48:02 -0400
Subject: Some things
Message-ID: <>
From: Molly E Fanton <>

Why do I seem to put my foot in my mouth, it doesn't taste to good and
it's not healthy.  I just wanted to apologize for a couple of posts I
wrote.  One was about the money thing, I'm not sorry for what I said, but
I'm sorry for the way I worded it.  I know hopefully soon I'll be going
out and buying some of the XTC stuff.  I'm currently waiting to hear from
a job training thing to get into Hospitality Services.  So I'll be
working in the hotel industry.
Next off, I was a bit harsh with Dennis, sorry guy.  I just got a bit
cocky and needed to say what was on my mind at the time, but I should
have kept my feelings to myself.  Some of the non XTC content is
interesting (like the progressive rock arguement).  I just get tired
after a while reading people's comments.  Next time this happens I'm
going to start a new thread, and after that Weird Al comment I made in
the same post I eat my words.  Thanks for the people who did contribute.
That's one bad thing about the digest I write something, and then in the
next digest people start posting about the topic I posted.  I should
remember that sometimes people don't read their digests until later.
Here are some of my fave XTC things:

XTC Song(s): Grass, Dear God, All of You Pretty Girls, Snowman, and
Harvest Festival
XTC Album(s): Skylarking, Apple Venus Vol. 1, Oranges & Lemons, English
Settlement, and Mummer
XTC Video(s): Grass, Dear God, Mayor of Simpleton, Making Plans for
Nigel, and King For a Day

My fave part of English Settlement is Jason and the Argonauts.  I love
this song.  Anytime it comes on I start singing alone with it.  I also
love Snowman too. :)



Message-ID: <>
From: "Jason Garcia" <>
Subject: Something Phishy
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:25:50 PDT

>I would pay good money to see Phish cover Knights In Shining Karma!

I would pay good money to see Phish take a long walk off a short pier.  70%
of the Phish I've heard has been lame replicas of other bands, especially
the Beatles White Album (um, why not just listen to the White Album?) and
their original music is just plain annoying.  It smacks of "we're really
talented because we went to SCHOOL for it, so let's do really wacky things
that only really talented people do, and our fans will love it 'cause
they're all stoned!"

Flame away!



Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:18:37 +0200
From: Martin Herles <>
Subject: on ES & Townshend's solo work &tc

Great, I finally delurk (I spare you all the tiresome personal details,
suffice to say: I'm from Austria, which means you unfortunately can't
expect any real XTC-News from me, sorry folk) and it's just corrections and
things. Well, I'll try and improve, promise!

Item 1:
Bob wrote (and I DO agree with his remarks musicwise!):
>My favorite (few) of ES would include:
>The electric riff that kickstarts Respectable Street

Someone please elucidate that, is there any version of ES with Respectable
Street on it, or is it just a mix-up on Bob's part?

Item 2:
>Subject: Re: I Am Iron Man
Chris wrote on Pete Townshend:

>his Iron Man album, which was for me his only good solo album since Empty
>Glass.(OK, White City wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great either, and
>Psychoderelict can best be described as an interesting failure) I

Once more, I agree but haven't you forgot 'All the best cowboys have
Chinese eyes' of 1982 (I think), which, though not as good as Empty Glass,
features some awesome tracks?

Item 3:
>From: "Damian Wise (Foulger)" <>
>Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:25:55 -0500
>Subject: Stupid boring posts
>Message-Id: <>

>It's interesting that after sometime of 'Stupid boring posts' we
>had a short period of 'Stupid boring posts about 'Stupib boring
>posts' and how stupid and boring they were.'  By talking about
>other posts these were of course meta posts.  Now we have a
>post about the stupid boring posts about stupid boring posts, or
>a meta meta post.  When will we get around to meta meta meta
>posts?  Oh wow, I've just realised, this is one, but by virtue of the
>fact that I have realised that this is a meta meta meta post, it
>becomes a meta meta meta meta post and now I've lauched
>myself into a recursive loop and could go one for ever.  But, a
>post that goes on for ever would be a 'Stupid boring post' and we
>wouldn't want to start that again would we?

On the danger of this post becoming meta times 5, as long as there's no one
with real XTC news we might as well discuss some off topic things as well
rather than have the zillionth discussion on counterarguments to yet
another personal opinion (valuable though the latter are) on the same 11
songs on AV1 (and don't get me wrong, I love all of them!)


Dr.Martin Herles
Vienna University of Economics
English Department
Augasse 9 A-1090 Vienna AUSTRIA
++43 1 31336 4287


Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:50:42 +1000
From: chrisc <>
Subject: Re: Slagging Dave Gregory

Andy B , I'm sorry but you are talking a load of bollocks!  If you read the
book a little bit more and between the lines you'll realise why Dave was
getting pissed off.  XTC's whole sound changed when he joined the band (MY
OPINION).  Dave's parting was not good for the band; I've seen too many
good bands disintegrate after major members have left.  Andy & Colin may be
the songwriters, but Dave was the catalyst which made their songs so good.
If your main love was playing guitar, and you were constantly told to play
keyboards, you'd get pissed off too.  And if this flames anyone, I dont
give a shit.  Dont dis Dave, he is a true gentleman, and if anyone has a
right to be pissed off it's him!  As much as I love Andy and his songs, he
was a right prat to Dave, and I think XTC will be sorry they lost the most
brilliant guitarist I have ever heard.  I could go on and on across this
ant-heap, but I've got better things to do and listen to.

Chris Chapman


Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:06:54 +0100
Message-Id: <>
Subject: Favorite ES moments
From: Richard Horrocks <>

After reading everyone else's, I'd just like to add that my favourite
moment from ES, in fact probably from any XTC album, is the little run
at the start of "English Roundabout", followed closely by the middle
section of ER where the bass drops out.  That song is one that I can
listen to on repeat over and over without getting bored (for hours
sometimes).  I must have worn a serious groove in my vinyl copy, thank
goodness for CDs.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:35:22 -0400
From: Jeff Rosedale <>
Organization: Columbia University Libraries
Subject: ES moments

Lured in by a juicy thread.  Favorite ES album moments:

1.  Andy singing "people will always be tempted to wipe their feet / on
anything with Welcome written on it"

2.  Dynamic range of sound on the album expressed instantly at the
beginning of Runaways; ES has to be the "Dark Side of the Moon"
engineering triumph of the 80s

3.  Terry's drumming on the whole damn album:  rocking energy of Senses,
impossibly tightened skin on Yacht Dance

4.  The fuzzed-out sound of Fly on the Wall

5.  The sea-washover fade-out of Jason and the Argonauts

6.  Guitar interplay on English Roundabout, Yacht Dance

I could go on indefinitely but will spare you, except for

Favorite ES experience moments:

1.  Listening to the album for the first time and feeling like I had
heard it before; it was under my skin on the first exposure.

2.  Discovering that there was an import version with even more great

3.  Finding the import version with the cool textured cover and
parchment-colored sleeves with lyrics.

4.  (Peripheral) Seeing the video to "All of a Sudden"

Easily bests any XTC (or other!) recording, any day of the week.




Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:29:22 -0400
Subject: Re: talking about XTC is like dropping acid with a Giant Cockroach
From: "Duncan Watt" <>

>"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"

sorry, guys, got to go with William S. Burroughs.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:05:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Rosenberger <>
Subject: SHEESH Give DG a Break!!

Hello all. Glad to have an XTC post to throw my opinion on.....

0and here it was from digest #253:

"Am I right interpreting that as a slam on the song ? This is coming
someone who did not contribute a single song to XTC ? Could Mr. Gregory
have done better ?  I think not.  Yes, I agree he's a fantastic
but . . let's face it, Dave just wasn't happy with XTC anymore. His
increasingly negative attitude was very apparent and annoying.  Maybe
Dave's parting was good for XTC- meaning Andy and Colin are probably
stronger and closer because of it. It should be interesting to hear AV2
without Dave's presence.

Andy B."

Ok here is my take on this. Yes I will agree Dave is being negative
about the song. Perhaps you could even say he is slamming the song.
SO WHAT! Hell I love that song but that doesn't mean I am going to tell
DG what to think about it. Andy has slagged off on plenty of his own
tunes.  He pretty much disowns Dear God and never wanted it played. How
about Your Dictionary from the new LP he didn't really want that heard
either (albeit for slightly different reasons). I assume Colin has had
some negative stuff to say about his own stuff too although I can't
think of any examples at the moment.
And as far as having contributed a song to XTC's output;What the hell
has that got to do with it? You and I and everyone else here has our
own opinions about that song and none of us wrote any of their stuff
either. DG said he thought it could have been better. Maybe it could
have, maybe not. But GET OFF HIS BACK! He has the right to his own


As far as not contributing anything to XTC. You gotta be out of your
cotten picking mind. (No serious offense meant here)Dave was an
integral part of the XTC sound. He wrote arrangements, guitar licks,
chord progressions and anotated all of the music. I may be wrong here
but I believe neither Andy nor Colin can "write" music, at least not
using the proper annotation. I'd like a show of hands of everyone here
that thanks that XTC would have sounded exactly the same without Dave?
You there in the back, participate or transfer to study hall. :-D

I agree that towards the end, there were probably feelings of anger
from Dave and I do feel that you can see some of that in the parts of
Neville's book where he is quoted (which is not often as he didn't want
to write the book anyway). But I actually find some of those to be the
most interesting comments as they capture in a strange way what was
happening in the band then and not the history that they were actually
trying to chronicle.


I personally feel that Dave will be sorely missed on the next LP. It
being a guitar album. This debate as raged on and on though, and there
will never be an answer until we hear it. So let's just wait and see.
I am sad though that Andy and Dave are not speaking to one another. I
think at one point they had a pretty good freindship and I hate to see
that get thrown away. I hope they can reconcile their problems. It's
good to hear that Colin has had Dave over to see the new studio though
and that they are still communicating with one another. Maybe we will
get to hear Dave and Colin doing studio work together on someone else's
stuff. That would be nice to hear.

Attention Ben Gott: Yep it sure is!

Sad in Detroit

I Am

PS: If you haven't seen it yet go check out the New Dave Gregory
Internet Site!! The discography section is amazing in it's detail on
what he played on what songs.

It's at:


Message-ID: <006f01beef05$612a7540$b54e97d0@ginsim>
From: "Simon Deane/Gina Chong" <>
Subject: Re: Chocolate Pastiche
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:22:46 +0800

Sorry Dorothy, but you wrote:
>The album [English Settlement]is a pastiche of aural treats; it's a sampler
>of quality chocolates.

You mean that ES is not actually an aural treat but a kind of a
copy/imitation of one; and that it's not the chocolate box itself but
just a few examples....?
I think I know what you mean but I suggest you have a look at a
dictionary before you send your next post.
...and by the way I may actually send a substantive post shortly so
you can have a crack back at me then.
Pedantically yours,
Simon "spunk bubble" Deane


Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:18:53 -0600
From: Phil Corless <>
Subject: Uffington Horse Shirts

I've placed some Uffington Horse shirts on eBay.....

Thanks for looking!



Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Rosenberger <>
Subject: Molly has spoken

>From digest 253:

"This IS the LAST I'm going to SAY about this SUBJECT.


I just wanted to bring this to everyone's attention. Remeber you saw it

Dames, Is this a meta or a mita?



Message-Id: <l03130300b3e9e720ea2e@[]>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:40:24 -0400
From: MinerWerks <>
Subject: A moment

Hi, Fellows...

Just wanted to share a brief story... I visited a friend in New Orleans
this past weekend (also went to see The Muffs, I think a couple people have
briefly mentioned them here). It's not often that a mention of XTC actually
returns something, but this time I was surprised.

I mentioned to someone with an interesting CD collection (a lot of Tori
Amos, some Robyn Hitchcock, and a lot of electronicy or gloomy stuff) that
my tastes were more pop influenced, the main bands being The Beatles, They
Might Be Giants and XTC. To which she replied:

"So what's your take on 'Pink Thing?'"

Looking back on it, that sounds like some sort of come-on, but it wasn't.
Actually, this person was mildly repulsed by the song, especially the line
"isn't it about time you met some female pink thing?"

So what would all of *you* say if someone asked for your take on "Pink Thing?"

= Derek =


Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:30:55 -0600
From: John Lerfald <>
Organization: Capacity Provisioning , Littleton, CO
Subject: Brand new

This is my first message to you all  at  this site..
Just want to say XTC is one fine band!!
I would like to make an observation about AV1:
Is it just me or do these gentlemen sound an awful lot like the Beatles?

I mean, I grew up on the Beatles and sometimes AV sounds so much like
them that it's frightening!I
Anyway...Apologies if this topic has already been addressed. like I say,
I'm Brand New.
I remember the very first thing I heard from XTC:
"....I've seen acts of every kind of terrible come from m-a-n
l-i-k-e    c-r-e-a-t-u-r-e-s...."
I was hooked immediately.
Nice to meet all of you,


Message-ID: <>
From: "Megan Heller" <>
Subject: Iron Giant
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:52:56 PDT

Chris wondered about "The Iron Giant"--

>I've heard good things about it, and I'd be curious to see if they
>handled the story as well as I thought Pete Townshend did ten years ago on
>his Iron Man album, which was for me his only good solo album since Empty

As I understand it, Pete Townshend was actually one of the executive
producers of "The Iron Giant"-- so that should say something.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:10:19 -0400
From: Ian C Stewart <>
Subject: who shot the Borders Chicago video?

One of you had a great seat and a steady camcorder hand for Andy's
appearance at the Borders instore in Chicago. You also dubbed me a copy
of that video. ONLY: I don't remember who you are. Please email me
offlist promptly.

XTC videos? Yeah, we got those:
King Crimson, Bjork, Cocteau Twins, Mark Eitzel, Chameleons UK, Dead Can
Dance, The Cure videos? Yeah, we got those too:

and by "we" of course I mean "I."

later James Spaders,
Ian C Stewart


Message-ID: <016701beef46$2c6f6680$>
From: "Victor Rocha" <>
Subject: Y107 rocks
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:07:07 -0700

>rob allen wrote: Somehow, someway the inexplicable has occured. That's
right, "Greenman" is getting airplay in >Southern California on Y107. Wow.

about two months ago I received a call from the program manager of Y107
asking me to take part in a radio poll. I was asked to listen to the station
for a couple of weeks and then fill out this card and send it back. it also
asked which three bands I would like to hear more of.

here's my response:

1. XTC
2: Elliot Smith

I guess they do read their mail,
Victor Rocha
West Los Angeles, California


Message-ID: <000201beef49$3d79dc00$66e931d4@costello>
From: "john riordan" <>
Subject: Jason and the Argonauts
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:11:35 +0100

erik schlichting wrote:

While my brother and I were rooming together about thirteen years ago, I
exposed him to XTC via ES, and we spent quite a while enjoying and
deciphering "Jason & the Argonauts."

This is something a friend and I did by post several years ago.  I can
remember many evenings spent with my ear next to a speaker , the whole
process made more difficult by not having the facility of CD backtracking.
The favourite part for me is :"I was in a land where men forced women to
hide their facial features, and here in the west it's just the same but
they're using make-up veils."


From: "Steve and Lauren Perley" <>
Subject: Dancing about quotes
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:49:11 -0400
Message-ID: <01beef4c$1e6f0da0$>

>As Elvis Costello sagely
> "Talking about music is like dancing about architecture"
>Did Elvis say that? I'd heard that quote before, but didn't know who it
>was attributed to.
>I like that quote just fine, but must say that I have seen some dancing
>about archetecture that was actually quite good. Really.

I'm furiously looking through The Rock Book Of Lists and The Real Frank
Zappa Book, and I haven't found it yet, but I'm 99.9% sure that this is a
paraphrase of a quote from Frank Zappa.  Although I think that the second
part was "dancing about art."  It comes up from time to time, and I'm not
sure how it came to be attributed to Elvis.

Can anybody back me up on this?

XTC content:  none.  So sue me.



Message-Id: <>
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:10:08 +1000
Subject: Gregsy's Geeky Muppet Sailor

>>From: "J Bogner" <>
>>I was just reading 'Song Stories' and since I'm in the Big Express mode-I
>>decided to read about the song 'Wake up'. Dave Gregory said about the
>>song," It was only three chords.  The coolest part of the song was the
>>chopping guitars but Colin should have written a better song around that
>>hook. It just went on forever doing nothing.  It sounds a good way to start
>>an album but it's not my idea of a musical experience".

>>Am I right interpreting that as a slam on the song ?

When I first read that comment of Dave's, I took it to be a bit of a slam
as well, but it seems a bit silly for us to get the shits with him just
because he didn't think much of the song, and dared to say as much. People
on this list are always very quick to point out that everyone is entitled
to their own opinion - shouldn't that also apply in this case?

>>This is coming from
>>someone who did not contribute a single song to XTC ?

I'm not sure if he ever tried to contribute any songs, but can you imagine
how hard it must be for anyone to contribute a song to Andy? If Dave had
started writing, Andy might have taken that as an attempt to undermine his
authority in the group, and Dave could have decided to leave much earlier.
Maybe we should ask Barry Andrews his opinion....

>>Could Mr. Gregory
>>have done better ?  I think not.

Having listened to the orchestral arrangements he was responsible for, I
can't see why he couldn't have done better...or at least, written something
just as good as Andy's or Colin's work.

>>  Yes, I agree he's a fantastic musician-
>>but . . let's face it, Dave just wasn't happy with XTC anymore. His
>>increasingly negative attitude was very apparent and annoying.

I agree with you on this ; there wasn't much point in Dave hanging around
when he clearly wasn't happy with his position as the under-appreciated
non-writing sideman.

>>Dave's parting was good for XTC- meaning Andy and Colin are probably
>>stronger and closer because of it. It should be interesting to hear AV2
>>without Dave's presence.

Hopefully Dave's parting from the group will be good for Dave, as well.

>>Subject: Weird Al's XTC Parody

>>Bert and Ernie live together
>>There's no closets here - here on Sesame Street
>>Just like Big Birds of a feather
>>Wild Muppet sex - here on Sesame Street

Now *there's* an image I could have done without....

>From May O'Mahoney :

>>PS:  I've always wondered where the nautical inspiration found in early
>>XTC music has sprung from.  Any ideas?  Any insight into AP's sea salt

Wasn't Andy's dad in the Navy at one time? I seem to remember reading that
in "Song Stories" (thanks to Mary Beth Henson), but I don't have my copy
here as a reference.

>>From: "Toni Adler" <>
>>Subject: Geeky?

>>From our fellow geek, Dunks. "I've got to know some of the Australian
>>Chalkers personally (g'day Paul, Iain, Seb,
>>Toni et al) I can assure you they are just as groovy in person. (Well OK
>>we're all a *little* bit geeky but hey - that's part of the charm!)"

>>Geeky, eh. Good job you included yourself, skivvy boy. ;-)

But skivvies are making a comeback! I read it in my horoscope!!



Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:44:06 -0700
From: "May O'Mahoney" <>
Subject: Insert Foot In Mouth

themolefromtheministry writes:

> Andy's father was in the Navy, May. That is why Andy was born in Malta.
> His father was stationed there.

Insert foot in mouth.  Repeat.  Insert foot in mouth.  As I told Jon,
I'm a bit embarassed by my lack of core AP knowledge.  Even though I've
been an avid fan for years and read my share of interviews, somehow this
fact eluded me.

Thankyou, and goodnight.

May AKA The Twirling Hair Blonde


Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:00:22 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <>
From: Dave Hughes <>
Subject: I'd Like That CD Single

I picked up the "I'd Like That" CD single, and even though I enjoyed AP's
discussion about the origins of the song, I didn't appreciate it as much as
his discussion about the song "Easter Theatre" on that CD single.

BTW, is there going to be a "Greenman" CD single, or any other before
"Homespun" comes out in October?
* --------------------------------------------
Dave Hughes
Host of "Late in the Evening"
Nebraska Public Radio
* --------------------------------------------


Message-ID: <>
From: Wes Hanks <>
Subject: ES on the cheap
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:53:09 -0700

Super Friends,

For no apparent reason, CD Now has English Settlement on sale for $8.38.
The holiday gift buying season is right around the corner, so stock up now.

I am dumbstruck on how brilliant The Flaming Lips "The Soft Bulletin" and
Guided By Voices "Do The Collapse" truly are.

Hey, Dave G., are you married yet?

Count down to vacation party time,
Wes Hanks


End of Chalkhills Digest #5-255

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