Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-248

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 248

                  Monday, 16 August 1999

Today's Topics:

                  Re: Chalkhills Digest
   Here's to bow down to the ones called the blind men
            I had a dream last night, oh boy!
        You Know Sometimes Words Have Two Meanings
                   Nirvana post-mortem
                   AV1 against the rest
                 Tragedy makes the band?
                Final Greenman Video News
                      Nirvana redux
                Yank v. Limey (?) nobodies
                        Skin Deep
                        pure crap
                       MiNsTeR HiLL
                  A Slice of Humble Pie


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7 (John Relph <>).

He died grinning on live TV.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:52:24 +1000
From: chrisc <>
Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest

Delurking for the first time, and this is probably going to flame-out
heaps of people.  Iv'e been an XTC fanatic since 1979.  Shows my age!  But
there seems to be far to many posts which have nothing at all to with what
this sites all about.  C'mon folks keep the content relevant to the
greatest band that's ever been.  I know we're all entitled to our own
opinions on whatever, but some of this shits becoming overtly BORING!  Now
here's my boring bit!

My wishlist, being a musician/singer/songwriter:
Gregsy (The finest guitarist I have ever had the pleasure to hear) to play
on my Album.
Terry to drum for me:(Hope he's still in OZ)
Andy to produce my Album (And sing)
Colin, HIT me with that bass and laconic humour.

Back to lurking, and waiting for the flames!

Chris Chapman


Subject: Here's to bow down to the ones called the blind men
Message-Id: <0006800014128666000002L062*@MHS>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:29:32 +0200

Howdy "Kreideberger", hi there Cooking Vinyl,

I find it fascinating to read that everyone's favorite song with hit
potential is stricken from the TVT/Cooking Vinyl catalogue and no one seems
to really get upset.  I for one am MAD AS HELL!!!  What the f#@* do these
people think they're doing?!!?  Have they lost their minds??  I mean,
Easter Theatre is nice, but it's not hit material.  Okay, great for the
fans and all.  I Like That is really bouncy, catchy... but not exactly the
hit song.

GREENMAN IS.  C'mon guys, what's going on here?  You promote the album
well, yes.  But do you have something against there being a hit on it?  I
mean, let's face it, almost every XTC fan was telling you, "Put Greenman
out as a single and promote it.  It'll do well."  This was back when you
were talking about NOT putting it out, then came the rumors of the Greenman
video (gotta do it, CV!)  and suddenly the 'Hills were alive with the sound
of music.  Even people who don't really like Greenman were sure that *this
was gonna be the one*.  This was *the* song to put your efforts into.  And
now you go and ruin it all.

You *have* lost your minds.  Or you've already given up on our boys.  Don't
do that.  They are worth it, any critic will tell you.

There's only one way you can make it up.  Use Greenman as part of the new
single from AV2 -- and promote both songs.  What's it gonna be?  "You and
the Clouds"?  Whatever.  Just don't forget the song with the biggest
potential of all from AV1; you just can't let a song of this calibre sit
around and not get heard.  You have to do something with it.  My god, it's
catchy as hell and has incredibly good production values, ...

I AM ANGRY!!  Aaaah, just gimme that pitchfork...

- Jeff


Message-Id: <s7b42599.077@OAG.STATE.TX.US>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:02:44 -0600
From: "Steve Oleson" <Steve.Oleson@OAG.STATE.TX.US>
Subject: I had a dream last night, oh boy!

I had a dream last night, oh boy!

	Three friends and I were hanging in a bedroom talking about the
Beatles, all enthusiastically. So I launched into an a capella version of
Sgt.  Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise) and the others joined in
lustily.  It sounded wonderful! We didn't just sing a line and break off
with an embarrassed laugh, we sang it all the way through, singing the
harmonies, while the guitars and drums played in our heads. At the last,
screechy, out-of-tune guitar note (before "A Day in the Life" begins), I
woke up; my heart beating strongly in my chest. An intense dream!

When I was fully awake, I thought about the dream. I wondered "when" the
dream took place. A contemporary friend was there, so it seemed to have
taken place in the present. However, there was an unabashed enthusiasm in
our personalities more like that found in kids than in 40-something adults.

Then I thought about McCartney, comparing his personality seen in the
1960s, and that displayed currently. The difference is like that found
comparing a glittering, sharp, silver, knife, and an old, tarnished, silver
spoon. I wonder, am I more like the knife, or the spoon? More like the
spoon, I imagine.

Time is a strange thing. Sometimes, the distant past seems only separated
from the present by a paper-thin membrane, that could be easily cut by a
knife and stepped through.

How do we polish our lives and nourish our spontaneity and brilliance? (A
good night's sleep would help!)  Andy seems to know the secret. What do you
Chalkhillers think?

Steve "I'd love to turn you (me) on" Oleson


Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:36:50 -0400
From: Harrison Sherwood <>
Organization: Averstar, Inc.
Subject: You Know Sometimes Words Have Two Meanings

> From: Jon Rosenberger <>
> Subject: Zep-Cobain-and maybe XTC Too

> >>"Can someone please point out a cohesive lyric that Robert Plant
> actually wrote?"
> Sure--""And she's climbing a stairway to heaven""  it's meaning is
> obscure and open to interpretaion but it is certainly cohesive. Perhaps
> the word you were looking for was "comprehensible"? Possibly Harrison
> would like to illuminate us with his intrepretation of the song, I am
> sure a mind as developed as his has wrung some meaning from it that
> mine has not.

Thank you for your faith, Jon. We are touched. Alas, the past few days
have been taken up with fevered preparations to pack the Woman Warrior
and the Imps of Satan off to a sandy place, there to enjoy two weeks of
Vaseline-lensed reveries brought on by the lugubrious cry of the lonely
seagull--to my mind a far more effective nepenthe than Proust's madeleine.

These reveries shall dwell as much as possible on improbable athletic
sex, the heady lingering aroma of Coppertone and ocean salt on a
wind-dried inner thigh, and festive, brightly-colored alcoholic
beverages, to the careful exclusion of the poetics of Robert Planet.
However, I am apparently doomed to spend at least some time pondering
the following verse, which leaped out at me recently during a late-night
radio scan, took a stranglehold on my synapses, and wouldn't let go:

   Sometimes you gotta get higher
   Sometimes you gotta stay low
   Some people say you're gonna die someday
   I got news for you, you never have to go

You're welcome.

Really, asking for an interpretation of "Stairway to Heaven" is one of
those jokes where the act of asking is the joke itself, don't you think?
Sort of like, "How many Canadians does it take to dismantle a nuclear


> From: "Duncan Kimball" <>
> Subject: The Art of Business / The Business of Art

> And is what is wrong with Sting doing a bit of spruiking for Compaq?

Ah, screw it. I'm on vacation. You people deal with it.

See you in September.

Harrison "Think Different" Sherwood


From: "Mugsie Rimmer" <>
Subject: XTC
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 01:43:25 +0100
Message-ID: <>

I may be thick ! But does anyone know how to convert US type video to UK
Answers from Brits only ,it's easier that way!


Message-Id: <>
From: "Michael Davies" <>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 01:09:29 -0500
Subject: Nirvana post-mortem

> I don't profess at all to be an expert on this matter, but it occurs to
> me that the great and influential bands are made up of great and
> influential musicians.  The whole band may be greater than the sum of its
> parts (insert example here), but bands break up, sustain losses like
> Nirvana, adapt and change with times and personallities.
> I think the mark of a great band is what happens after the tragedy -- the
> death of a singer/song writer, drummer or other member, or the break-up
> of a successful union.  I guess what I am saying is, if Nirvana was the
> most influential rock band of the 90's - where are they now?  What's
> happened to the rest of the band while Kurt rocks with the dearly
> departed?

Dave Grohl is the singer and guitarist for the Foo Fighters, an
immensely popular alternative rock band who are not critically
disdained.  Krist Novoselic decided to use his ability to get a
recording contract to record and release whatever random music he
wanted to (the Sweet 75 album).  That's the rest of the band. many bands have been broken up while still successful
and had their members achieve success afterwards?  The Beatles,
and...Led Zeppelin, with The Firm?  Don Henley?  What other bands
have had postmortem individual success equal to that of the

> One can't deny that the "N" band struck a chord with
> America's suburban teenagers, but I would argue
> that, given the nature of teenagers in the 1990's,
> they were the equivalent of the Monkees in the 1960's
> in terms of how they were embraced.  Sure, both
> bands had one or two good songs, but then after
> a few years they were quickly dropped for more
> substantial musical fare.

I would say that Nirvana were dropped for other musical fare because
of the suicide of the writer of all but one of their songs, not because
of fickle teenaged music fans.  Also, the bands that became popular
after their flameout were along the lines of Bush, Live, and the Verve
Pipe; bands whose music was influenced by or similar to Nirvana's;
punk bands like Green Day and the Offspring, most of whose music
couldn't be considered more "substantial" than Nirvana's;
light-sounding rap-ish rock by people like Smash Mouth and Sugar Ray;
and of course the Backstreet Boys, 'N Sync, 98 Degrees, Robyn, the
Spice Girls, Destiny's Child, Take That, Savage Garden, Britney
Spears, Boyzone, B*Witched, and Marilyn Manson.  Artists like the
ones who had been popular in the underground and suddenly had
hits in 1993 and '94 - the Flaming Lips, Pavement, Liz Phair,
Possum Dixon, Juliana Hatfield, Veruca Salt, the Meat Puppets, Sonic
Youth - ceased to have hits once the major labels stopped trying to
replicate the success of Nirvana in terms of originality and tried
replicating it in terms of sound (viz. signing bands that sounded
just like Nirvana).

I think I said "viz." in that paragraph.  I don't know what "viz."
means, so if I actually meant "e.g." or "i.e.", read it as that.

Anyway, Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Soundgarden were it in terms of
substantialness (substantiality?) this decade.  Before them, the hits
were rap, increasingly lame heavy metal, New Kids on the Block,
and Guns 'n' Roses.  (I've just recently become aware that Guns 'n'
Roses shouldn't be grouped with lame heavy metal...having been 9
in 1991, to me they blended in with Bon Jovi and Poison).  After
them, the hits are increasingly repetitive rap, increasingly lame
punk, solo members of the New Kids on the Block, "R&B", and
bouncy beach rock.

>6.  I can understand why Americans may value him (tho' I think it's bogus
>and in what I said about JFK), but I cannot for the life of me
>see why any European would be taken in by this hype.

I honestly have never heard anyone display this kind of anti-colonial
prejudice, and I honestly didn't know it still existed among people
of average age.

NOW.......Time to talk about XTC.  How's that "Greenman" single
coming, boys?  What do people think is the band's most overlooked
song?  I would say "Paper and Iron (Notes and Coins)" or "Leisure".
Who was that that kept entreating people to listen to the Grays?  I
got their album for two dollars a couple months ago and it's great,
although the booklet is all stuck together (both big boxes of $2 CD's
at the flea market in question had apparently floated across the
Atlantic, explaining the price).  It's great, I tell you.

> Two steps forward, six steps back.

Ahhh...although it's a pessimistic sign-off, this reminds me of a good
band (the Gang of Four) and is actually refreshing after that
hostility-filled digest.

If I seem mad, it's because I heard "Dancin' in the Moonlight" by
Harvest King on the radio today.  Wow, that is an awful song.

Michael davies
np: Pernice Brothers.  This sounds like Smart Brown Handbag, but


Message-ID: <004201bee64d$6f8c79a0$36a1fad0@tim63>
From: "Tim Kendrick" <>
Subject: AV1 against the rest
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:06:21 -0400

Hi everyone!

steve wrote:
   >Now that the smoke has cleared and most of our emotional attachments
   >to AV1 have dissolved...  Where do folks see it in relation to the rest
   >the discography?

Although I've only been listening to it for six months
(compared to several years for all the others) I would still
put AV1 at the number 1 position as my all time favorite XTC

Below is the order I would rank all the major XTC releases,
along with songs I would have replaced/added from that time

Tim's Rankings:
          songs I'd replace: "I Can't Own Her"
          with:  "Wonder Annual"

  #2 - NONSUCH
          songs I'd replace: "Holly up on Poppy"
                                         "Then She Appeared"
          with:  "Where Did the Ordinary People Go?"
                   "Goodbye Humanosaurus"

          songs I'd replace: "This World Over"
          with:  "Motorcycle Landscape"

  #4 - MUMMER
          songs I'd replace: "Wonderland"
          with:  "The World is Full of Angry Young Men"

          songs I'd replace: "Hold Me My Daddy"
                                         "Minature Sun"
          with:  "Blue Beret"
                    "This Is the End"

          songs I'd replace: "Ballet For A Rainy Day"
                                         "Another Satellite"
                                         "The Man Who Sailed ..."
                                         "Big Day"
          with:  "Ra Ra For Red Rocking Horse"
                    "Find The Fox"
                    "Obscene Procession"
                    "The Troubles"

(the rest I'll list without my replacement songs)



  #9 - BLACK SEA




  #13 - GO-2

I'm sure many of you will have different views on this.
I gather that the majority on this list would rank ENGLISH SETTLEMENT
as #1, with SKYLARKING a close second.

      Tim K.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:07:59 EDT
Subject: Tragedy makes the band?

Steven Paul wrote:

I think the mark of a great band is what happens after the tragedy -- the
death of a singer/song writer, drummer or other member, or the break-up of
a successful union. I guess what I am saying is, if Nirvana was the most
influential rock band of the 90's - where are they now? What's happened to
the rest of the band while Kurt rocks with the dearly departed?

You may want to check out the Foo Fighters.  1997's The Colour And The
Shape is as good, probably better, than anything Nirvana put out.  Who
would have guessed that Dave Grohl was as gifted, again...probably more so,
than Kurt?

Oh...and still...your line of thought is a bit convoluted.  By your
reasoning, Def Leppard must be one of the all time great bands.  I don't
think you can judge the impact a band has had on the world by how that band
bounced back from tragedy.  This notion would also imply that the Doors,
or...better yet, Jimi Hendrix, was not that influential.....of course,
neither of those bands had a one armed drummer.

Click here:


Message-ID: <>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 12:19:01 -0400
From: george toledo <>
Organization: home
Subject: Final Greenman Video News

Well, the official word (via tvt) is that the greenman video was so
"horrible" that it will not be released. That's a dissapointment.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 11:45:57 -0500
From: Danielle Gaither <>
Subject: Nirvana redux

> I love the All Music Guide, but this claim is greatly exaggerated.
> The ones who deserve the credit for influencing rock history are the
> early punk bands -- Clash, Sex Pistols, Jam, Ramones, Buzzcocks, and
Who in turn were influenced by plenty of other artists as well.  Did not
The Clash say, "All that we are we owe to Jackie Wilson?"  Wasn't punk
in some ways a return to the three-chord structures of the fifties?

I have a BA in Music History.  One thing my studies have shown me is
that musical development through history has behaved more like a
pendulum than in any kind of linear fashion.

> maybe even XTC. These are the bands who opened the floodgates of
> originality and paved the way for the U2s, REMs, Smiths, Smashing
Originality is the art of concealing your source. :)

> Pumpkins and Nirvanas of the 80s and 90s. To give the credit to
> Nirvana is getting the wagon before the horse.
I don't really think that's true.  Yes, Nirvana used some (I say *some*)
sounds from other bands and combined them in their own way (which is
probably as much originality as any band can aspire to).  But don't
discount that "suburban teen" appeal.  As someone who *was* a suburban
teen in 1991, I can say that we really didn't have much of anyone who
spoke for *our* generation (unless you count New Kids on the Block,
which I don't).  Even my currently Korn-fed brother says, "Before there
was Korn, there was Nirvana."  Suburban teens buy records, too. ;)

And who can deny the cathartic qualities of "Territorial Pissings"? ;)

So, how about those lads from Swindon?  I bet they're not Nirvana fans.

Always happy to help,

We're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz.


Message-ID: <002801bee67c$629333e0$04708bd0@ginsim>
From: "Simon Deane/Gina Chong" <>
Subject: Yank v. Limey (?) nobodies
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 01:42:28 +0800

Hey, Tyler! The only people who seem to be doing any elevating of the likes
of Benny Hill and Prince Charles seem to be ....errr... Americans and other
non-Brits. Most self-respecting Brits. are rather surprised at the
"success" of the likes of Benny and Chaz outside those shores. As for the
Sex Pistols, (whilst acknowledging that you were probably trying to be
provocative) you're just plain wrong - I think that they were truly
revolutionary in their effect upon popular music, not in the music itself
but in the politics of music. The likes of Kurt (rip) are not fit to be
mentioned in the same breath....
All the best
Simon Deane


From: "Mark Strijbos" <>
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 22:06:31 +0200
Subject: Skin Deep
Message-Id: <>

Dear Chalkers,

The amount of work involved in building the new Dave Gregory site
@ has kept me from working on the
Little Lighthouse these past months. Some of you may have noted
that i haven't been my usual loud-mouthed self here either...
i'll be back, i promise :)

Those of you who are using the popular WinAmp MP3 player and
want to add some XTC to their desktop may like to know that i've put
a collection of 12 downloadable XTC inspired "skins" on the Little
check 'm out @

yours in xtc,

Mark Strijbos at The Little Lighthouse


Message-ID: <001001bee6d0$24415500$946dc2d1@joeblow>
From: "otis career jr" <>
Subject: pure crap
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 19:58:49 -0700

are you telling me that i have to fricking buy AV1 again to get the
demos???  i know there hasnt been income for awhile, but what a scum
buckety move!!  re: Bears - eh.... ok stuff, but certainly nothing to write
home to mom about! A couple decent tunes on each lp, n thats about it,
kids. Crimson, on the other hand, is a different story, besides their last
studio lp, (which is better performed/mixed on their Live in Argentina
discs), not a bad release in their catalog. Besides Belew's involvement in
both, mentioning these two bands in same paragraph, a travesty, kids!
   If you like the 'quirk' in XTC's stuff, I'd send ya shopping for Soul
Coughing's newer, "EL Oso"... not sounds like XTC, but there's a similar
attitude thing.
  I hope n pray AV2 has some testicles, Nonesuch, AV1, both pretty, (still,
years later, just aint crazy about Nonesuch, a flat, uninvolving
collection) but no Andy-Boy rhythm guitar! Know we're all getting
older/mellower (been a fan since '79, myself), but, not ready for Vegas
lounge show, yet.
 Cobain: A great poet, a very physically ill man. Should be classified with
the likes of Ian Curtis/Darby Crash. THe guy had a lotta shit, (migranes,
heroin addiction, white trash upbringing, Courtney, etc.) to deal with n
still made a mark. Hey, he didnt want to be famous and wouldve quit fast if
not for feeling obligated to his friends. Also, not on same page in any way
with XTC, really.
 Thus sayeth I.......   for my pages, mucho fiction,
chaoslinks, n fun stuff!


Message-Id: <>
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:10:46 -0400
From: Joshua Hall-Bachner <>
Subject: Variety

"David Seddon" <>

>4.  I'm not saying (and we've had this debate before) that melody is the
>only important thing in music, but it is one of three or four
>prerequisites.  I don't think Curt had a clue!

I'd debate this point rather strongly. There is a lot of music which is not
primarily about melody, and casting aspersions on it seems short-sighted to
me. Anyone who's a fan of My Bloody Valentine, Pan Sonic, or Sonic Youth
can appreciate that subtle texture can be just as fascinating in music as

And, on the other hand, I'd debate that Nirvana was completely lacking in
melody. Sure, tunes like "Territorial Pissings" are screaming slash-fests.
But what about "All Apologies"? "Dumb"? Even "About A Girl"? Kurt's voice
may have disguised it pretty well, but I would consider all of these songs
melodic, and they all worked well when stripped of their electric backing,
as the Unplugged session proved. Hell, "In Bloom" is a horridly catchy tune
(one that, ironically enough, I have trouble not singing along to when it
comes on....)

"Megan Heller" <> wrote:

>I'll mention in the midst of this that I barely even listen to any American
>music.  I was always impressed by the diversity I saw in the English
>popular chart as compared to the American charts, and I still am.

There is a reason for this, however. America is a large country -- 280
million people -- and with subcultures that range from inner Manhattan to
the deep South and back. With this many people, popular music can only
represent the broadest of trends -- acts which would probably do very well
on many "regional" charts, if they existed, will often not be able to
harness the power to succeed on a broad national level. Britain is much
smaller, and much less culturally spread than America, due to its size --
small trends therefore have the potential to make a much larger impact on
the charts. One should also note that though the American pop music charts
may be cack, there are many (and diverse) artists who succeed to such a
level that they become large-scale cult acts, whose names may be familiar
to a large portion of American youth -- Bjork, Portishead, Stereolab, and
Pavement, to name a few examples from my own collection.

/---------------------------Joshua Hall-Bachner---------------------------\
|   |
| "We all have our idiosyncracies -- maybe thinning hair, or gum disease."|
\---- Kowanko, "Will You Come To?" ------ Thank You, And Goodnight. ------/


Message-ID: <>
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 16:17:19 -0700
Subject: MiNsTeR HiLL

Not sure if this has been mentioned here before but check this out.....It
was posted to audities- Sounds like the second coming, yeh????

Not sure if they've been discussed much here, but has anyone else heard the
fabulous Minster Hill album?

If you were left cold by XTC's latest, then this is probably what you were
expecting!  Great songs, quirky changes and a fine blend of acoustic and
electric instrumentation.  Man, if Colin Moulding released a solo album
today (produced by Andy Partridge) then this is exactly what it would sound
like.  Although I don't think that it would touch the majesty that this
album possesses.

Don't let the XTC comparison get in the way, though.  They don't SOUND like
them. They just have the same quirky musical stylings.

Songwriter Howard Herrick has created a near-perfect album filled with
everything that us pop fans want, need, desire and love.  This is an album
that is as enchanting as anything else you'll hear this year.

Look for them at

And later on, you'll find the whole story at


Message-ID: <000101bee760$e9d0bb40$c4e7abc3@default>
From: "David Seddon" <>
Subject: A Slice of Humble Pie
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:56:50 +0100

Is this the right room/list for an argument?

Although I enjoy a really good musical discussion even argument I realise
that sometimes I might go a little over the top.  I have no real interest
in Nirvana, but I enjoy debating whether they're any good or not.  Actually
I'd can think of many other artists I'd prefer prefer to debate.  XTC
especially, but I'm far from being the only one who's not said much about
them recently.

Sorry if I got on your nerves Megan!!
It was not my intention to insult any Americans on the list, and I
apologise if I did.  I have liked most of the Americans I have met and had
a very happy relationship with an American girl for about a year.  American
classical (serious) music is great and you do musicals a million times
better than our pathetic Mr. Weber.  "Junk" culture's ok, too: on a trivial
note I also have a continual craving for root beer, which is a pain 'cos
over here you can't get it or it's crap (made in England!).  Having said
that I'm not changing my view about the weak state of American Popular

Other points:
I don't intend to defend Oasis either, but given the choice of being
stranded on a desert island with only one CD, I'd have to go for one of
their's above a Nirvana one!  The noise might not be inspiring, but it
would be more pleasant.  Sharing that island with certain members of either
group would just about drive me to distilling something potent, or to work
night and day on a canoe !

I don't think that the examples of English heroes, who are thought naff
elsewhere, but aren't here were very well could have picked
Lloyd Weber.  Most English people over 40 seem to think he's God's gift to
music and that's extremely embarrassing!!!

Sex Pistols?  I'm not a fan, but they are not a footnote to pop history
like Nirvana!  There was some merit there!
Prince Charles?  Oh dear.  He is certainly not a hero here and is
constantly mocked!!  I don't think he's as bad as he's made out, but there
you go!  Benny Hill?  Totally non PC over here.  Pretty much forgotten,
too.  I was under the impression that he was huge in America, but I might
be wrong about that.

Princess Di?  It's not the same thing at all.  I don't want to get into the
Di thing, but she was never valued for any talent, so mocking her for
coming off a pedestal doesn't enter into it.  People appreciated her for
what they thought was her humanity.  Whether they were right to do so I
make no comment on.

Meanwhile, I am very sad to hear that Greenman may not be a single after
all.  On AV1, I thought it had the best chance by far of being a hit.


End of Chalkhills Digest #5-248

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