Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-241

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 241

                  Tuesday, 3 August 1999

Today's Topics:

                My Music (Right Or Wrong)
             Re: Turning Into Chris' Parents
                      Prefab Sprout
                   Re: Fashion foolery
                      Re: Aimee Mann
             Shriekback, that special moment
Oh Goody (Non XTC, sorry John, I'll have an XTC post later)
               Mr. Hitchcock for $400, Alex
                 influential bands, etc.
                Cotton Mather & Shriekback
                   xtc and the beatles
                    Briefly, this time
              Sgt. Rock Poster Sleeve Single
re: two penneth, other than redeeming rock and roll, that is
                     Re: [Re: Sting]
                     Shudder to Think
             Bags of fun with Buster on E-bay
                    Mecchanic Dancing
                    An it harm none...
                 note about Cotton Mather


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Message-Id: <>
From: "Mark R. Strijbos" <>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:02:55 +0200
Subject: My Music (Right Or Wrong)

Dear Chalkers,

>    I guess we've gone around this issue, but never asked one
>    interesting question: WHY can't we define a "most important" artist
>    of the 70s?

I personally think this has a lot to do with the fact that "rock 'n' roll"
or "rock" evolved into a myriad of genres and sub-styles like hard rock,
prog rock, folk rock etc. at the end of the 60's. There's just no such
thing is a unified "music scene" anymore.

For instance: one of the most influential artists with some real socio-
cultural significance to rise during the Seventies was of course the late
great Bob Marley. But you could hardly call him a rock star, now could
you? it wouldn't make much sense to rank him to Aerosmith or Kiss
(which were both just and purely US phenomena, transatlantic friends!)

Nevertheless i'm pretty sure that in 100 years time Marley will be
remembered for his musical contributions while "great" bands like
Duran Duran or Aerosmith will have sunk into oblivion by then.
But in all our recent discussions here he wasn't even mentioned...
Too black, too strong perhaps?

Mark R. Strijbos
COSS Holland bv


Message-Id: <>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:26:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Turning Into Chris' Parents
From: "Duncan Watt" <>

Parent-fearin' Chris ( wailed:

>For the first time
>in my life, I can look at the Billboard top 40 and see practically nothing
>I can relate to, maybe two or three I can remotely at best. I'm turning
>into my parents! AAAAAAAA!

This is exactly the definition of 'rock & roll'.

Duncan "brevity is(snip)" Watt


From: Cathryn Myers <>
Message-Id: <>
Subject: Prefab Sprout
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:20:27 -0400 (EDT)

Who mentioned Prefab Sprout?  Yes they are (were) wonderful.
I admit that Prefab sprout is a little more obscure than XTC, but if you
are an XTC fan, the Sprouts should appeal as well.  Although I think they
both have unique styles there must be something similar about their
music.  I live with my sister and she is a captive to my music choices
mostly.  The interesting thing is that she is constantly confusing XTC
and Prefab Sprout.  If I play her a song and ask her who the artist is,
she will invevitably guess either XTC or Prefab Sprout when it is
actually the other.  (sometimes she throws in Aztec Camera and Squeeze as
a guess--if that gives you an idea of the sounds most frequently coming
out of my speakers).

But you know the sad thing about Prefab Sprout is that in the 90's they
came out with Andromeda Heights while XTC came out with AV1.  I just don't
like it.  What a horrible follow-up to Jordan: The Comeback.  Now that is
a concept double album.  I never grow tired of it.

I was listening to Swoon (their first) again after a long while and
finally realized how innovative that was.  It was probably one of the most
impressive debuts that came out of the 80s.  By the way, the order of the
Swoon cd is backwards I think.  I first heard the Sprouts via a cut out
cassette of Swoon that I picked up in 86.  Side one should start with
Couldn't Bear to be Special.  The first notes are an acapella chorus of a
male and a female voice singing "Bow-- Bow-bi  Bow-Bi  Bow---"  Now that
was innovation.  I have never been so turned off--yet intrigued during a
first listen--until I purchased the new Negro Problem.  Now there is a
band I hope grows up to be XTC instead of what has happened to Prefab

It takes guts to put out an album like Joys and Concerns today
(especially as a follow up).  I just wish it had been better produced.
Believe it or not I would love to see the producer of Nonsuch (Gus
sombody?) get his hands on The Negro Problem.

All in due time.


P.S.  This is my first post to Chalkhills, I have been lurking for a
while now.  I loved the suggestion to cool it on the Bong Rips before
posting.  Whoever wrote that won my favorite person of the day award


Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <>
From: John Relph <relph@cthulhu>
Subject: Re: Fashion foolery

T Lewis <> asked:
>Hello? When have the terms "fashion" and "XTC" *ever* nestled
>comfortably in the same sentence?

I believe Andy answered that question:


	-- John


Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <>
From: John Relph <relph@cthulhu>
Subject: Re: Aimee Mann

MinerWerks <> wrote:
>For those of you waiting for Aimee Mann's next album, you'll be happy to
>know that it's been done for some time. But before anyone else can release
>it, label-less Aimee must BUY BACK the album from Universal!!

Apparently Aimee Mann will release her album herself through her
website (and perhaps elsewhere).  See for details.

	-- John


Message-ID: <03a501bedb2f$22fe7580$cedea4d8@default>
Subject: Shriekback, that special moment
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 04:30:38 -0400

"Diamond" wrote:

> I have a question to any people who might be shreikback fans. I just
> bought "Go Bang" by them, my first purchess by them ever. I guess it's
> all right, but I don't like it that much. Did I make a wrong choice for
> first listening to this band?

Oh my yes.  You did indeed.

> Is Go Bang not a good encapsulement of what Shreikback are
> like? If so, can you tell me which one I should buy next? Thanx!

"Oil and Gold" and "Big Night Music" are the best Shriekback albums,
probably, and the compilation "The Infinite", which gathers bits and pieces
from early, out of print albums, is quite good, too.  Really, everything
*before* "Go Bang" is swell.  Hard to say what happened there.  It seems
like that's the point in which what used to be a style turned into a
formula.  The later "Sacred City" is a bit better (featuring as it does the
return of bassist Dave Allen), but it's not really that good either.

T. Lewis, et al., wrote:

> "Who the hell IS that!?!"

Which precisely sums up my intro to XTC circa high school, 1985 or so
("Senses Working Overtime"), as well as the English Beat.  XTC was active
proselytizing on a friend's part; the English Beat just happened to waft in
from his older brother's room, whereupon I demanded information
immediately.  The last band I had this experience with (getting rarer,
because it's hard to stumble across someone playing music I haven't heard
before) was probably the Fall (whose new album is very good, though they
are perhaps the antithesis of XTC, so I wonder how many converts they could
find in this group).

-- Francis Heaney

"She said, 'I know you, and you cannot sing.'  I said, 'That's nothing, you
should hear me play piano.'"

   -- The Smiths


Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 04:56:11 -0400
Subject: Oh Goody (Non XTC, sorry John, I'll have an XTC post later)
Message-ID: <>

I love this type of thing.  I'm a bit batty now, since it's 4:46 am, but
I don't need to get up early tomorrow, I'll sleep until 1. :)
Okay here we go.

50s: Patsy Cline, Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, Ricky Nelson (I'm not an
Elvis P. fan, I'm more a Buddy Holly fan) and The Big Bopper

60s: The Who, The Beatles, Janis Joplin, Jefferson Airplane, and Joni

70s: Pink Floyd, Genesis, Wings (yes, I'm a Paul McCartney fan, so sue
me), Queen, Roxy Music, and Siouxsie and the Banshees (oops that was 6)

80s: Kate Bush, Talk Talk, XTC (of course), Spandau Ballet, and Squeeze
(oops I said a naughty word in this group, bad bad Molly)

90s: .O.Rang, Liz Phair, Ani DiFranco, Spacehog, and Jamaraqui

Man, that was fun, but I could have gon on and on.

Now some XTC content:
When will Space Ghost Coast to Coast be on?  Does anybody know??



Message-ID: <>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:50:12 +0100
From: B Blanchard <>

Hi PeckhamRyePartyPeople!
The party, if sunny, at 2.30pm onwards next Sunday 8th August
which I told you guys about earlier, is in the Park bit of
Peckham Rye Park, which is south east of central London.
Map as below!
Strakers Road, the road which divides Peckham Rye Common from
Peckham Rye Park, is accessed from the West side of Peckham Rye.
There is a car park in the middle. Go into the nearest gate to
the park and you'll find us somewhere nearby.
To all of you who emailed me to congratulate me and David for
surviving ten years, well thank you! It was easy. Well,  were
lucky to find each other and THEN it was easy. Heave ho!

Please email me at to say if you can come.
Bring drink and sun. There will be an ice cream van probably in
the car park, and the toilets are reasonable!

Here's the map of the park.  The MapQuest site is one of the
better (UK Accessible) map sites I've come across.  I am also
hoping to find a detailed enough satellite site.  But then maybe
I am not as I like to sunbathe nude on my back balcony.  Search
away people!

Really enjoying the latest wordfights.  Keep 'em coming.  It's so
obvious when people like Dom are winding you up Molly!  The clue
is they have written at all.  We're all in this together. I think
we Brits are better at irony, not a new realisation, and many
Americans miss it.  When you read a post by a writer you know to
be British, imagine they are speaking their letter aloud with a
large grin on their face.  That'll help.    The fact is, if we
all like XTC we must have some sense of irony or at least know
how to recognise and enjoy it, and the accompanying wordplays.

Talking about pink things, anyone got any good punch menus
(drink) that involves one bottle of Pimms? (Omigod I've turned it
into a cookery site!)

If the mapquest site makes this post go way way over to the
right, forgive!


Message-ID: <>
From: Wes Hanks <>
Subject: Mr. Hitchcock for $400, Alex
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 07:26:59 -0700


Kids, if you have the opportunity, go to the International Music Against
Brain Degeneration Revue when it comes to your town. The tour features the
talents of Cornelius, Sonic Boom, Robyn Hitchcock, Sebadoh, and The Flaming
Lips. Saw said tour last night in Las Vegas. (To a mostly empty house!) To
perform The Soft Bulletin, the Lips utilized tapes and film clips projected
on big screen for a singular experience. The enjoyment level was increased
with the clever use of individual headphones - whish I thought of that!
Usually a second rhythm/string track was broadcast on an FM signal in sync
with the live/tape music. If Andy is entertaining thoughts of live
performances, suggest this use of headphones would work well, especially
recreating the string arrangements and drum tracks. Oh well, one can dream.
Imagine what Andy would come up with for the film clips to accompany XTC
music. Always hated the way your videos were made? Here's your chance to
truly express YOUR vision of YOUR music, Andy. C'mon, we're behind you. We
won't laugh, honest.

Wes Hanks


Message-ID: <>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 10:23:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tyler Hewitt <>
Subject: influential bands, etc.

David SEddon's list of influentual bandsfrom each decade:
80s: Kate Bush, Queen (could have picked them in the 70s, too), Talking
Heads, The Happy Mondays (not so sure of these, but perhaps they
something that was new), XTC...

I would suggest the following changes:
1.. Leave Queen off (or put them on the 70's list. at least they were
good in the 70's).
2.  Replace Queen with New Order (I'm not a fan, really, but they were
very influential in merging new wave and dance music)
3. Remove Happy Mondays, replace with the Smiths.
4.  Move REM from the 90's list, put them on the 80's list (for the
same reason I moved Queen to the 70's list)
5.  Add Los Lobos and Lucinda Williams to the '90's list.

That'a all,


Message-ID: <000a01bedb82$3a3d9b60$>
From: "Drew MacDonald" <>
Subject: Cotton Mather & Shriekback
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:26:37 -0700

To "Diamond" (Digest 5-240): The best Shriekback record is Oil & Gold
(Island/Arista 1985), though others may cite the followup Big Night Music
(Island 1986), and I won't argue the point very hard. They're both
terrific.  Does anyone else still wonder how XTC's music would have turned
out had Barry had stayed in the band? One of those pointless fannish
imaginings, but I'd sure like to browse in the parallel-world store at
which those records were available. (Probably in the bargain bin next to
Hendrix Discomania and VH1 Divas Live: Janis Joplin & Mariah Carey) .

To wesLONG (also 5-250): The Cotton Mather music you heard was probably the
album Kon-Tiki (Copper Records 1997). It's one of those out-of-nowhere
Beatlesque gems that caused quite a stir in the American pop underground
when it first came out. It was particularly surprising, since the only
other Cotton Mather record, Cotton Is King (Elm Records 1994), is okay but
sounds completely different, more like an Amercanized Squeeze. Rarely have
I heard such evolution in a band from one record to the next. I don't know
if or when we can expect new music from these guys, but I'm certainly
keeping watch for it.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:00:12 +0200 (CEST)
From: hans strmberg <>
Subject: xtc and the beatles

A quick reflection: Has anybody noticed that the bass-line behind the
phrases "suddenly just changed address" and "suddenly just packed its
bags" in "Then she appears" is quite similar to the bass that builds up
almost the hole of the beatles song "Taxman"? (If I'm not wrong, Andy
has somewhere said that the song is more of a Dukes composition that
one of xtc...(huppf!))
Au revoir et adieu,

Hans, Stockholm, Sweden, The North Pole


Message-Id: <l03130302b3c78d1cf5bc@[]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:17:26 -0400
From: MinerWerks <>
Subject: Briefly, this time

I think i figured out what bothers me the most about the current state of
music in general.

There was a time when record companies were willing to cultivate some
artists for longevity while also presenting the latest sensations. I mean,
look at Virgin's patience with XTC throughout the mid-80s, they reluctantly
released Mummer and Big Express, but when they failed to live up to
expectations, they didn't ditch XTC, they tried to engineer a way to keep
them alive (resulting in "Skylarking").

Who's cultivating artists today? Nobody is *allowed* to have longevity.

= Derek =


Message-Id: <>
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:44:21 -0700
From: studio seventeen productions <>
Subject: Sgt. Rock Poster Sleeve Single

Hello Chalksters-

Just wanted to let you know I put a near mint condition copy of the Sgt.
Rock poster sleeve 7" single up on ebay for auction ( user id  ambient17
) case anyone doesn't have one.


dave at studio seventeen


Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:26:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: John Fulton <>
Subject: re: two penneth, other than redeeming rock and roll, that is
Message-ID: <>

D.Seddon writes

> Here's my pick of who will still be important and what will still be
> listened to and analysed in 50 years time, either because they were
> excellent creators, inovators or both...

> I'm not sure who else yet, but not Kurt Cobain!!... a wastrel who didn't
> deserve much credit at all, but got it due to hype (and) bullshit...

and the small act of saving rock (from dying of boredom, for one thing).

Other than that it was a decent list, which makes your railing at
Cobain all the more confusing.

Cheers, John.
               -   John A. Fulton   -


Message-ID: <001801bedc7d$ddd81060$070110ac@peter>
From: "Peter Dresslar" <>
Subject: Re: [Re: Sting]
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 20:25:19 -0400

I could swear that the most universal and recurring thread in this mailing
list during my 6(!) years or so of membership is, incredibly, Sting. I
would bet that you could go through the archives and find those magic five
letters a thousand times. Really, it's gotta be up there with "Dear God."
At least you gotta hand that to him - like him or not, Chalkers are very
aware of him.

Most of the Sting related postings have been quite similar in essence to
the following recent missive, from which I have snipped to the most cogent
two lines:

> Subject: RE: Sting
> >>So I'm a wanker?  I like Sting, but of course I can't like him when I'm
> Oh for God's sake!!! It was a joke!!! Jesus wept, how blatant can I be????

Six years of this with no resolution. Hmmm...

Peter Dresslar


Message-ID: <>
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:33:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: nross <>

Dom... and whoever gets a kick out of these arguements
that have, NOTHING, to do with XTC mind you. anyways: XTC is cool XTC is fine And I'll end this soon
Cause I can't rhyme.

>> I've heard most of his albums sufficiently often that I feel I can pass
judgement. You don't have to agree.<<

I don't agree. You may know his work, dude, but you are ultimately
biased in your opinion, as is everybody. You like what you like for
whatever fucking reason... and you can make your arguements however
you like. There will ALWAYS be a good arguement to be made against
yours, assuming someone has the balls to step up to the plate. Its not
to say you are "wrong". Its just that you are being obnoxious.

S'okay... I've been obnoxious towards Duran Duran... but I quite like
them, so go figure.

>>However, when someone criticizes something despite clearly having no
discernible interest in or knowledge of the genre in question, their
statements don't really carry much weight.<<

That's an alright arguement if you don't consider that you know, maybe
they don't have any "discernable interest in or knowledge" of the
particular genre BECAUSE they've heard it and think it sucks shit up
the spout.  If someone doesn't like something, why WHY would he invest
the time to gain knowledge in it???

>> If you think I know fuck all about music then you're sadly
mistaken. <<

 whats a "fuck all" ?

>> If you can argue against Hip Hop from a similarly strong position then
let me know.<<

Depends on what you consider hip-hop. You wanna talk about puffy and I
think I can make a clear arguement against this man that never, let me
tell you, never says a word thats clear... and its never on the mark.
Oh... it just plain sucks, and I got one of his albums to prove it...
I'm not gonna buy any more. Though I personally will not argue against
the hip-hop of Lauryn Hill, even though I can't listen through the
album in one sitting.

>>as for Sting, I actually quite like a lot of his stuff. As I say, it was
a joke, and not a very subtle one at that.<<

Hell, I missed that one, please don't shoot me, I got a kid to raise.

>>Maybe! Sorry, but it's hard to tell when people have such weak

Some of us have never taken debate.

But, I don't like weak arguements either.
Oh damn, there I go again... arguing both points. I must be a woman.

>>Besides which, there is often a bizarre air of superiority on this

Superiority? My god, Dom... I ALWAYS like your posts. Personally think
you are damn clever and your arguements ARE usually great... but you
are very superior in attitude. Its your charm. Let others have a piece
of it.

>>I don't actually care that much if anyone likes Lauryn Hill's album or
not.  I don't even care if you all think I'm an arsehole - there's always
some feeble-minded reactionary keen to send me an abusive e-mail when they
don't recognize blatant sarcasm or hyperbole <<<

Blah blah blah... what a shot, ouch it hurt soooo much I think I'm
bleeding. :-) (I am joking)

>> Is this a discussion forum or Jerry Springer?

The world is Jerry Springer's... didn't you know?

>>Cheers anyway <<.

-Cheers!!! This has been fun!



Message-ID: <>
From: "Megan Heller" <>
Subject: Shudder to Think
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 21:29:44 PDT

to chris vreeland, commenting on Shudder to Think's "Pony Express Record",
while I doubt many will consider it a masterpiece or classic, I blame that
only on the lack of exposure.  I just listened to that album this weekend
for the first time in a while, and I really do think it's brilliant.  I
like it better than their more recent stuff (although their last album had
a happier feel thanks to the lead singer's miserable year-- he was trying
to counter it).  What a voice!  What unusual song structure!  What lyrics!
What a voice!

I also have to have a certain amount of pride in the fact that they're from



Message-ID: <>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:50:15 +0200
Subject: Head

Since there was some talk about it on this list, I thought I'd let you know
that the Monkees movie 'Head' is to be broadcasted this friday (August the
6th) at 23:00 hours on Nederland 3 (dutch TV).  Before I say anything else,
I'll catch up with my reading first (been away a week).



Message-ID: <>
From: "jonathan monnickendam" <>
Subject: Bags of fun with Buster on E-bay
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 05:57:21 PDT

My CD copy of Bags of Fun is is being auctioned on E-bay for those

I guess every one knows that Mike Myers shares on odd habit with our own
AP; 'before the first Austin Power's film MM took a year off and one of the
passions he rediscovered was model soldiers', the Guardian a couple of
weeks back

Bands for the
60s Beatles
70s Pere Ubu
80s 3 Mustapha 3
90s still working on it...

cha cha cha



Message-ID: <>
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:32:43 +0200
From: Erich Sellheim <>
Subject: Mecchanic Dancing

Hello everyone,

after the occasional talk about "XTC in strange places", I'm now
confessing that I've heard XTC in the strangest of all possible places:
in a disco!!!

But seriously, I've never read a mention of XTC songs being played in a
disco on Chalkhills yet, so I'll start by telling you that some years back,
a local disco had a "new wave" evening which generally included "Making
Plans For Nigel" (generally at my request), once even followed by "Living
Through Another Cuba" which cleared the dancefloor faster than "Rum And
Coca Cola" by the Andrews Sisters, the song which often closed the evening
to get the people out. In another disco, I once heard "Dear God", and a
friend of mine swears he once heard "Helicopter" there.

As you see, from my experience hearing XTC in a disco is a rare pleasure,
and I'd definitely go to discos more frequently if the music generally
being played wasn't so unbearably crappy; in fact, I think most of them
have some kind of quality control, but it seems to be used in reverse! Can
other Chalkhillers confirm or deny this, or are you just no disco-goers?

Best wishes,



Message-Id: <>
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:56:00 -0400
From: "TOM GRIFFIN" <>
Subject: Zep

I guess that's it's time to de-lurk & give a couple of my completely
irrelevant thoughts:
First, Kudos to "Themolefromtheministry" for mentioning Led Zeppelin. I was
waiting for someone to mention them as the 70's band.  Not only was their
music truly amazing (IMHO), but it was hugely influential.  One needs only
to look at all the 80's hair bands to see that that is true.  I've been
told that Def Leppard spelled their name "incorrectly" as a subtle tribute
to Zep. (I'd give my left arm to be in Def Leppard...sorry).

Secondly, I'd like to think that Public enemy will be remembered, though
I'm not sure if we should put them as 80's or 90's.  They were definitely
unique and influential within the world of rap.  And, they put on the best
show I have ever seen.

Thirdly, thanks for Chalkhills.  It is always one of the high points of my
work days.


Message-Id: <>
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 22:36:13 +0200
From: Giovanni Giusti <>
Subject: An it harm none...

<> wrote:

>...the Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do
>what thou wilt" and the modernised Pagan Confederation version, "If it
>harms none, do as you will". ...

Withouth wishing to comment on XTC and the Wicca, just an observation on
how modern this ideology is.

As Mao-Zedong said in his Little Red Book, "My freedom stops where yours
begins" - which is one also of the basic principles of modern liberalism.

Which could cast a new light on the reasons the Religious Right has to call
the ACLU "slaves of Satan"? Hmmm....

Sorry for the politics intrusion,



Message-ID: <>
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:50:38 -0400
Subject: note about Cotton Mather

I tried to send this personal email, but it kept failing. Sorry............

 Cotton Mather is a great band iwth 2 CDs out. COTTON IS KING is out of
print, but worth huntin down. KonTiki is the latest and in my opinion
greatest out of the 2. The singer sounds a lot like Lennon on the second
album, and the beatles are defintely an influence.

Not only in sound but production as well.,
 As for Owsley, I also have his debut and it is pure pop heaven. If I have
my facts down correctly, he played guitar with Shania Twain or someone like
that. From Nashville. I first heard him on NASHPOP, a great pop collection
out of, well I am sure you can figure it out. 
  I am always willing to trade tapes, so if you interested let me know.
Hope this helps a little..........

michael vg

"                                              " - Marcel Marceau


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