Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-240

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 240

                   Friday, 30 July 1999

Today's Topics:

                        Agony Andy
                        Chick rock
              Apologies and Imperial Sprouts
               Two penneth worth of opinion
        Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated?
It's about time we started the "wanking" thread again......
               A Band for the 70's you say?
          Richard Thompson's Mock Tudor (No XTC)
                     Homespun = AV1.2
                 THIS, THAT, & THE MATHER
                   Nothing else to do.
               Another Damn Dave Barry Book
              I have to comment on something
                        RE: Sting
                    XTC desktop clock
                  Yes, Phil Gives Me XTC
1. Punk; 2. Commercials; 3. The history od Rock and roll.
                    River of Siberia?
            An it harm none, do what thou wilt


    To UNSUBSCRIBE from the Chalkhills mailing list, send a message to
    <> with the following command:


    For all other administrative issues, send a message to:


    Please remember to send your Chalkhills postings to:


    World Wide Web: <>

    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7 (John Relph <>).

I stumbled in and I fell straight asleep in the chair.


Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:32:59 -0400
Subject: Agony Andy
From: "Diamond" <>

I found something in an AP interview that might pertain to recent threads
about Music
 "I like what I like and I still hear good music and bad music. It's
roughly the same ratio as it ever was ; maybe 5, 10% is gonna be good and
the other 90% is just driftwood, it's just not worth thinking about; and
that's the same through whatever period of history we're talking about."

Head His Advice, all



Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:34:09 -0700
From: Queenie <>
Subject: Chick rock

>To Queenie:
>While Alanis Morissette was very effective in bringing
>"angry, girl-power rock to the mainstream," her predecessors
>include not only L7 and the Deal twins (2/4 of The Breeders),
>but Patti Smith and Chrissie Hynde (of The Pretenders),
>whose impassioned estrogen spewed all over the male-
>dominated rock-and-roll scene more than two decades ago
>and included substantial radio air play (depending where
>you lived and what time you tuned in).  I'm sure others
>on this list can supply additional "girl-power rock"
>examples that predate Patti Smith's first record in 1974.

Yep, them too! I have thought of some more, going way back to Janis Joplin,
Grace Slick, even Tina Turner, back in the day! (although she was being
driven by a maniacal man).   More recently, PJ Harvey, Kim Gordon, Liz
Phair.  When I think back to the nineties and remember female rockers, I
will probably think of PJ Harvey first.  But the mainstream folks will
probably think of Alanis Morissette.  What's the difference between Alanis
and all of the aforementioned ladies of rock from the nineties?  She's the
only one that doesn't play an instrument in addition to singing.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:25:58 -0700
From: "May O'Mahoney" <>
Subject: Apologies and Imperial Sprouts

Dear Chalkheads,

I would like to start off this posting with an apology:
What's that for?  (Half of you probably didn't even notice my griping
halfway down the page...)  It's for the fact that I complained of 'word
excessiveness' in the previous issue.  It was a bit on the harsh side.
Write away!  Write away!  Who am I to complain about long
contributions?  If irony has its way, I will be the next offender.
Thoroughly confused now?  Good, don't even bother to read my previous
post.  Ignorance is bliss.

Robert Baumgartner writes:

"Personally, I would choose Elvis Costello from the 80's (listen to
'Imperial Bedroom')"


 "I think Paddy McAloon is criminally underrated. If you think XTC are
kind of obscure, just mention the Sprouts to somebody. THAT'S obscure!
Great music, though. Gerswhin + McCartney + Jimmy Webb= a very unique
sound for Paddy. And their last CD (1997's "Andromeda Heights") hasn't
even been released in America. That's not good."


Prefab Sprout!  My goodness it's been a long time since I've heard
anyone utter those two words!  It's even spelled right!  (grin)  They
are delightful and am disappointed that I haven't heard the '97 release.

Cheers Until Next Time,


Message-ID: <000801bed7bb$3a466260$a53bac3e@vucqprlj>
From: "David Seddon" <>
Subject: Two penneth worth of opinion
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:00:01 +0100

What is beyond the gauge of good or bad?  The musings of various people
saying what is important from each decade has both interested and amused
me.  99% of pop is indeed crap...but, I guess that there's no other decade
to get people talking a load of Betty Swollocks than the 70s.  Yes? thanks.  Just about the only thing more pompous is Meatloaf.

Some of the artists that have been mentioned have been people I have never
heard of and doubtless lots of others on the list haven't either.
Realistically, history shows that those who are valued in their time most
often are later...Beethoven, Chopin, Wordsworth and most others you can
mention.  There are exceptions to this general rule.  Lots of them even:
but it usually holds.  Some exceptions: Ruskin was a great artist to the
Victorians, now he's just a critic, Mozart wasn't given his due (tho' he
was hardly ignored), Van Gogh never sold a painting outside his family.
Much as I love them, it is unlikely that The 13th Floor Elevators will be
considered as important artists by historians in 2150!!  My list may seem a
tad unadventurous, but it is perhaps nearer common sense.  I may seem a bit
Euro biased, but I do believe that most American rock since the 60s has
been incredibly anal and stirs the intellect about as much as a
trainspotter's notebook.

Do we really have to restrict ourselves to just one artist from each era?

Let's have five from each.  Here's my pick of who will still be important
and what will still be listened to and analysed in 50 years time, either
because they were excellent creators, inovators or both: The 50s has to be
more jazzers, the 60s is hard to restrict to 5 and the 80s and 90s more
difficult to predict just yet.

50s: Elvis (tho' I don't care much for him), Buddy Holly, Miles Davis, John
Coltrane, Sonny Rollins

60s: Beatles (I could say that 5 times such was their influence), Dylan,
Beach Boys, Velvet Underground, Cat Stevens (for his excellent songwriting.
I believe that he wrote many true classics)

70s: Kraftwerk (IMHO the most influencial group since the Beatles.
NB...not best, just influencial), David Bowie, Roxy Music, Sex Pistols (not
that I like them either!), Nick Drake

80s: Kate Bush, Queen (could have picked them in the 70s, too), Talking
Heads, The Happy Mondays (not so sure of these, but perhaps they represent
something that was new), XTC...well, who was it who said "you gotta have
faith"?  Well I guess it would be nice.

90s: REM, PM Dawn (Like the man said, do you spell rap with a big or a
small C, but if it has to be rap let it be intelligent), I'd love to
include Julian Cope for his incredible creative and eclectic output.
Probably not much chance, but he deserves more credit!  I'm not sure who
else yet, but not Kurt Cobain!!

I do believe that he suffers from the JFK syndrome.  To get off the point
for a's a load of fuss about a wastrel who didn't deserve much
credit at all, but got it due to hype, bullshit and some crazy notion of a
beautiful hero who died young...I mean, Kurt was not in the same league as
Jimmi Hendrix or the Buckleys, for instance, and JFK was just about the
worst president and human being to get into the Whitehouse...Yet these boys
snatch the media plaudits.  Why?  It's a gigantic media con that relies on
mass-hysterical thoughtlessness. I do not think that Kurt was morally
corrupt like JFK, but he's drawn similar bewildering, nonsensical praise.
I can take the freaked out comments of those who want to throw that back at
me!  Ok, off the soap box now, me boy.

Also worth a mention are Pink Floyd and Van Morrison, who one can't pigeon
hole so well.
Future students of pop culture will also look at Abba, the Boy Band
phenomenon, The Spice Girls, Madonna and Michael Jackson.  Thus, their names
will live on, but one would hope that they would not be seriously studied
for musical content.
I'd like to have included Simon and Garfunkel, Cat Stevens, Talk Talk and
others, but last word goes to an ancient antipodean entertainer who
bestrides all of these decades like a colossus...
Rolf Harris.
Who of my age doesn't yearn to wake up to the old buffer singing Sun Arise
in his front room?!


Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:00:46 -0400
From: Harrison Sherwood <>
Organization: Averstar, Inc.
Subject: Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated?

> From: T Lewis <>
> Subject: Fashion foolery
> De-lurking....

...To stay de-lurked for a long time, it is fervently hoped. Thank you
very much, T., that was beautiful. I dig your comical strip too, and
wish the Washington Post didn't have its head so far up its ass. It's
plain you've worshipped at the altar of Walt Kelly a time or two, and I
for one congratulate you for it.

> From: "Duncan Kimball" <>
> Subject: No, it just smells funny

Right on time, and in characteristically laserlike phashion, One of Our
Duncans cuts through the Jovian Methane Atmosphere with a devastating
pair o' Socratic thingamajigs:

> Q: What IS "rock" exactly?
> Q: How exactly does one define whether it is dead?

Yep. Yep. Yeppity Yep. It couldn't be plainer that there are
approximately 1,500 unique and mutually contradictory answers to these
questions flying around here like gnats on a rightfielder, and until we
have a commonly agreed-upon set of definitions this thread could get
seriously out of hand. 'Nother words, I think Cross-Purposes are getting
tired of being talked at, and are beginning to pine for some action.

In my 78 years on this planet, the only thing that's been declared dead
more times than rock is Joe Dimaggio, and I'm not so sure we've heard
the last from him, either.

On the other hand (the one I use for pleasuring myself), it was not
without some Rotten _schadenfreude_ that I surfed past VH-1 Sunday
night, watched with amused detachment as rock's leading light Anthony
Keidis of the Red Hot Chili Peppers enthusiastically endorsed
empty-headed New Age feelgood capitalist Deepak Chopra (sign up for his
seminar, "Spiritual Seduction," for a mere $2,695 -- AT EXACTLY THE SAME MOMENT,
over on pay-per-view (only $29.95 per day!) the funloving party animals
who'd shelled out $150 for the privilege of shelling out $4 for a
20-ounce bottle of water and endangering their credit ratings by
signing up for a Commemorative Souvenir Visa Card, were setting ablaze
the last vestiges of the Woodstock Notion as Keidis & the Peps warbled
through a cover of "Fire"--which, the Irony Gods decreed, was brought to
us by the man who exploded guitaristic bombs and rockets while closing
original Woodstock Festival 30 years ago. Rock on.

Add to this the humanity-affirming report in this morning's paper
that the authorities are investigating many eyewitness reports that
women were being gang-raped in the moshpit at the Festival of Peace and
Love, and that security personnel may have been aware of it but unable
to prevent it. "'Due to the congestion of the crowd,' read the police
investigation report, '[one victim] felt that if she yelled for help or
fought, she feared she was going to be beaten.'"

As a consolation prize, I understand the unfortunate young lady has been
offered free tickets to the 30th Anniversary of the Altamont Festival
later this year, and told to dress more modestly.

Does this disastrous and utterly numbing event have any bearing on
our discussion of the Death of Rock? Perhaps; but consider the enormous
stake invested by the Big Six record companies and their concert-promotion
and subsidiary-marketing counterparts--a Megalopoly if ever there was
one, its power concentrating upward at a rate undreamed of even by
Marx--in the endless repackaging of The Sixties as a bankable brand.
The result has been a terrible dilution of historical understanding of
that decade, a horrible, reductionist oversimplification of the Sixties
to a series of evocative but ultimately meaningless symbols, wrenched
from context and pasted to crappy merchandise.

Brand Sixties has engendered a nihilism that is as deep as it is
perfect. From Littleton to the Limp Bizkit moshpit, it's a nihilism that
arises from a culture that tolerates--rewards!--the violence of the rich
against the poor, the strong against the weak, the jock against the
nerd, the rapist against his victim. Peace and love, sister--now show us
your tits.

Ugly world. Ugly, ugly world.

Harrison "Piss Factory indeed" Sherwood


Message-Id: <>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:19:52 +1000
Subject: It's about time we started the "wanking" thread again......

>>Dom Wrote:
<<Because he's shit. And anyone who thinks otherwise is a wanker. (See what
I mean? Get it out in the open - you'll feel much better!).....>>

>>So I'm a wanker?  I like Sting, but of course I can't like him when I'm
>>in this group, at least according to Dom.


Watch the fishes swim right up and take the bait you offered, like you knew
they would....



Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:48:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Rosenberger <>
Subject: A Band for the 70's you say?

Greetings chalkites,

I will weigh in with only one opinion on this whole can of worms that
has opened up regarding a rocker defining a decade...

>From the last chalk----"I guess we've gone around this issue, but never
asked one interesting question: WHY can't we define a "most important"
artist of the 70s? We're far enough removed from that decade, don't you
think? I'm very curious now."

LED ZEPPELIN. At least here in the Midwest of the USA. Not the best,
not the brighest, but you cannot change the fact that they dominated
the airwaves for the entire decade. Not even a personal fave of mine
actually but they were/are truly HUGE. They created a huge industry and
paved the way for many of the corporate rockers of the 80's and 90's.
Whether you view that as positive or negative you can not deny that
they had the most impact. The only possible band to compete with their
legacy is the Sex Pistols. Interestingly both were from the UK.

XTC Content: I just received the Japaneese version of the Black Sea LP
and it has a wonderful lyric insert....In Japaneese. :-D

Listening to: It's Nearly Africa



Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:54:48 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <>
From: Dave Hughes <>
Subject: Richard Thompson's Mock Tudor (No XTC)

John in Japan wrote:

>Dave Mattacks presented me with a cassette of " Mock Tudor " a few months
>back ... I suggest that EVERYONE on the list run out and get it in August.

I, too, have heard the new one by Richard Thompson (Mock Tudor), and it is
Thompson's best since Rumor and Sigh (from 1991).  BTW, Thompson and band
(sorry, no Mattacks, he's on tour with some country singer) will resume
their tour in the US in September, hit the UK in October, and come back to
the Northeastern part of the US in November.  This tour is hot!

* --------------------------------------------
Dave Hughes
Host of "Late in the Evening"
Nebraska Public Radio
* --------------------------------------------


Message-Id: <>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:29:15 -0400
From: Adam Tyner <>
Subject: Homespun = AV1.2

> wrote:
>...Amazon has a listing for an album by Xtc called
>Homespun. It won't be released until Oct. 12. Is this the Japanese
>compilation of the singles or could it be the all the demos? Anybody
>have a clue?

Yup, Homespun is Apple Venus 1, part 2, according to



Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:33:26 EDT


A while back someone traded me a tape with Cotton Mather on the B side, and
Owsley on the A.  I'm lookin' for this fine lad, got some questions about
Cotton Mather......anyone know anything about 'em?

As for the music scene....I'm about to turn 33, so I was old enough to get
into a bit of the 70's scene, but I'm more or less a child of the
80's......nothing much has actually changed if you think about it...for me
at least.  I mean...none of the bands I loved in the 80's got much, if any,
radio play........and none of the bands I love today do either.

Radio is a sound salvation, radio is cleaning up the nation,



Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:42:51 +1000 (EST)
From: Brent Palmer <>
Subject: Categorisation

> ...Fans come to xtc from several areas. Some of
> these include [musicians, Punks, "pop" fans, etc.].
 Please understand that I am not saying that >all
list-members fall
>     into one of these categories. In fact no one may
> exactly fit into one.
>     But I feel that these are relevant generalities.
> 	 Well, if nothing else, this lists serves to bring
> together people
>     from these diverse "cultures"...

True. Different folks appreciate the view from varying
angles.  Personally, the "category" I gravitate
towards (give-or-take) would be the "muso"-type.
Although without formal musical training (as such),
the only applicable "label" is that I'm moved by
quality, intelligent music which actually _means_
something.  This has resulted in a rather eclectic
array of tastes (XTC, later Beatles, Radiohead, They
Might Be Giants; early Miles Davis, guitarist John
Schofield; classical works by Mozart, Shubert and
Beethoven; et al!).  Stuff which warmly invites you to
slap on a decent pair of 'phones, and just milk the
music for every nuance - or conversely, enjoy the same
melding together as a whole.

The two things which really draw me in to a piece of
music are: (1) a melody line or chord sequence that
has the listener's brain anticipating a particular
note/chord, but instead "wrong-footing" it with an
entirely different one that still "fits" perfectly;
and (2) several elements coming together, disparate
yet rendered inseparable.  And let's face it, "Messrs
P and M" are extraordinarily adept at employing both

As an aside: re. the "rock is dead" debate...
While the last ten-or-so years have decreed the "rock"
genre be frog-marched to the treadmill, bludgeoned,
left to fatally haemmorage, then finally dragged in
the direction of the local taxidermist, methinks the
very _term_ lost relevance courtesy of _Rubber Soul_
(viz. "Norwegian Wood", "Eleanor Rigby")!  As reggae,
techno, rap/hip-hop, etc. later clambered beneath the
"rock" umbrella, is that four-letter moniker remotely

Anyway, hence concludes my two cents' worth.

Brent Palmer
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:45:12 EDT
Subject: Nothing else to do.

 Where do you people find the time to debate in such detail. These 10 page
responses drive me crazy.There was good & bad music in every decade.You
like what you like , I'll like what I like.Theyre opinions. Theres plenty
more that you can do. Get a job,cut the grass,vacuum the pool,walk the
Come on Andy & Colin, put SOMETHING out now!
  Crazy from the heat,  Roger
p.s. My 8 yr old nephew has "Greenman" memorized.Awesome.


Message-Id: <>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:50:06 -0400
Subject: Another Damn Dave Barry Book
From: "Diamond" <>

I have a question to any people who might be shreikback fans. I just bought
"Go Bang" by them, my irst purchess by them ever. I guess it's all right,
butI don't like it that much. Did I make a wrong choice for first listening
to this band? Is Go Bang not a good encapselment of what Shreikback are
like? If so, can you tell me which one I should buy next? Thanx!

By the way, I don't know if anyone on this thing are They Might Be Giants
fans, but if there are, I thought I'd tell you that every Thursday night at
ten O'Clock, for the next eight weeks (Starting tonight, but It won't be
tonight when you read this... whoa, I just got myself very confused) TMBG
will be performing original songs on "Nightline in Primetime," an eight
week special.

Also, about the "Homespun" thing, it sounds, by the likes of what Takashi
said, that Homespun is an actuall album. I would asume it's taking the
place of the Japanease Mini-album, since that was cancelled. But I cul be
wrong.  Another idea is that Homespun could have been the working title for
Fuzzy Warbles, and amazon never got word of it. (This happened with Dave
barry once. One of his books was GOING to be called "Another Damn Dave
Barry Book." It was eventually changed to "Dave Barry is from Mars AND
venus," but, still to this day, I think, they still have the other title


Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:24:13 -0400
Subject: I have to comment on something
Message-ID: <>

I have to make a few comments about what's been going on here lately.  I
love all types of music including R&B and Hip Hop.  I resent it that some
people in this group think that if you like progressive music you can't
like any others.  I listen to ABBA-Ozzy Osbourne-Tina
Turner-TLC-Salt'n'Peppa-Pink Floyd.  So I have a very eclectic musical
tastes.  I just don't like how people can bad mouth someone who doesn't
like a certain type of music.  Have I ever bad mouthed a person for what
type of music they like?  I don't think I did, and if I did I'm sorry.



Message-Id: <>
From: Lawson Dominic <>
Subject: RE: Sting
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:30:27 +0100

>>So I'm a wanker?  I like Sting, but of course I can't like him when I'm
in this group, at least according to Dom.

Oh for God's sake!!! It was a joke!!! Jesus wept, how blatant can I be????

>> Dom, you
defend your choice by saying something to the effect of "how
closeminded of you to put down Lauryn Hill or hip-hop, just because
you personally don't like it" But, you do the same Dom. I know. Your
response to my (or anyone) liking Sting or (shudder) Phil Collins
would be to spew. Or to say, "They Suck".

And not without good reason in Phil Collins' case. But that's not the
point.  I know Phil COllins' music, as most of us do, rather better than I
would like. I've heard most of his albums sufficiently often that I feel I
can pass judgement. You don't have to agree. However, when someone
criticizes something despite clearly having no discernible interest in or
knowledge of the genre in question, their statements don't really carry
much weight. If you think I know fuck all about music then you're sadly
mistaken. For whatever reason, some of you seem to know fuck all about Hip
Hop - as proved by the remarks and the comparisons you make. I know plenty
about Phil Collins - far more than is strictly desirable - and I have
concluded that his records are vile. If you can argue against Hip Hop from
a similarly strong position then let me know.

As for Sting, I actually quite like a lot of his stuff. As I say, it was a
joke, and not a very subtle one at that.

>>However, you seem extremely sensitive when anyone
chooses to "buck popularity" and say
Lauryn Hill sucks. Maybe they are not trying to be alternative. Maybe
they genuinely think her music sucks.

Maybe! Sorry, but it's hard to tell when people have such weak arguments.
Besides which, there is often a bizarre air of superiority on this list. I
see no virtue in slagging something off when you don't have the requisite
appreciation of the relevant genre - there are no points to be won by
appearing either 'alternative' or 'mainstream', especially as XTC could
quite reasonably be described as both.

I don't actually care that much if anyone likes Lauryn Hill's album or not.
I don't even care if you all think I'm an arsehole - there's always some
feeble-minded reactionary keen to send me an abusive e-mail when they don't
recognize blatant sarcasm or hyperbole - I just object to po-faced
literalism, kneejerk reactions to perfectly reasonable comments and
seemingly deliberate mis-interpretations of what I'm, none too obliquely,
trying to say. Is this a discussion forum or Jerry Springer?

Cheers anyway - at least I haven't mentioned Metal this time. Oops.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:39:56 +0100
From: Jon Eva <>
Organization: Gallicrow Software
Subject: XTC desktop clock

Dear All,

I've written a clock program for the PC (Win 95/98/NT) and
created a few XTC clocks for it. If you want to download it
then go to

Please note that you'll need to download the XTC clocks
separately as they're not part of the main package.

The program is free.

Jon Eva


Message-ID: <>
From: "damian marley" <>
Subject: Yes, Phil Gives Me XTC
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:05:04 PDT

(Ooops, sorry, sent you a string of garbage, please disregard - read THIS
one instead - Damian)

During the What Is Rock debate, several people haven't seemed terribly keen
on Yes.  Well, heaven for me is a flat green pasture with an infinitude of
rock and roll stages peppered across the vista, and you can walk for days
across the land with a beer stubbie in hand, discovering live performances
from the musicians who changed your life . . . oooh, look!  There's XTC!
And over there beyond those trees - it's Yes!!  And could that be Genesis
over on that stage?  I don't care what anyone says, I shamelessly adore
Genesis, Yes, XTC.  These bands are ace.


Message-Id: <>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:05:06 +0200
From: Giovanni Giusti <>
Subject: 1. Punk; 2. Commercials; 3. The history od Rock and roll.

Okie chalkies,

1) True, XTC never were "punk" in the strict sense of the word (they could
play their instruments, for one thing). All I was saying is that they were
marketed as such and that many of us got to know them through the whole
"punk/new wave" scene.

(Speaking of which I really liked Shawn Berkeley's post, I agree with it
100%. Whew.)

2) While I don't remember any commercials with XTC songs in them, I do
remember that the jingle from an old, pre-MTV music hour on commercial TV
in Italy was Generals and Majors. Basically, after they were finished with
a video, the DJ would pop back onscreen and start blabbing with G&M on the
background. That unfortunately didn't raise the flatness of the programme.

3) Apart from XTC, each of us have our tastes regarding past and present
music. This should allow us to conclude that XTC are such a wide-ranging
and diverse band that they do not fit into one single genre. All the more
love to them.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 05:51:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Funk <>
Subject: River of Siberia?



I've seen grown men pull there own heads off rather than listen to Hip
Hop!!!!!!!!!!  There!.....
Discussing it just perpetuates my misery!

Onto this Yes thread...

A good friend and fellow chalker, The other, other Chris (no sheds),
pointed this out to me recently:

The chorus from ROO and the chorus from Yes' Siberian Khatru are
strikingly similar:

Ri-ver of Or-chids....
E-ven Si-Ber-i-a......   etc.

It is probably pure coincidence, but you never know...
AP may have had that melody in the back of his mind.

Oh well, food for thought anyway..


P.S.  If Dave is too slick a guitarist, have AP give me a ring!  I am
very non-slick ( wipes the pam from forehead )and know the chord to


Subject: An it harm none, do what thou wilt
Message-Id: <0006800013715957000002L072*@MHS>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:44:06 +0200

Hi all you "Kreideberger" out there,

Just back from vacation/holiday in Merrye Olde Englande (and you all missed
me to pieces, right?) and am in the process of catching up on my post.
Just about 160 mails including 15 or so Chalkhills, and I'm up to #235 so
far.  No, Dave-Kimberley-John-Malady, I haven't fallen off the earth, I'm
back, and you'll be hearing from me!

Before anyone (Mark S.?) asks, I drove BY Swindon, going west on the A4 and
east on the M4, but unfortunately I wasn't IN Swindon, so I missed yet
another chance to meet our heroes at the guitar shop (we all know where
that is now, don't we?) or at the local vendor of tin soldiers and offer to
take them on a ride to see the White Horse; I also missed the
"XTC/Moodies/Swindon's finest" mural and the Magic Roundabout.  Oh well,
there's always a next time.  The rest of the trip was fab, down there in
Wiltshire/Devon/Cornwall/Somerset, great place, very mystical.  But you --
and I -- already know that.

What I really was dying to report -- and thought was all so interesting --
was apparently already discussed in some earlier posts, judging from the
matter-of-fact way it bas been being discussed in the Chalkhills digests I
received in my absence.  I was in the Witch Museum in Boscastle (very
interesting indeed) and was struck by the Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do
what thou wilt" and the modernised Pagan Confederation version, "If it
harms none, do as you will".  The "Apple Venus" bells in my head were
chiming big time when I read that.  Wow, now I knew that all the pagan
stuff Andy was talking about in his shed on "The Making of..." has a
written, established basis.  But you all know that now, too.  So, to cut
this short, I saw all sorts of Green Men and Eostre, the goddess of spring,
and eggs and rabbits and all that.  I understand the symbolism a bit better
now.  I bought a "Green Man" book from Paul Broadhurst, a fascinating
fellow (and followed the Mary Line).  And I did my bit for our boys by
telling the proprietors of the museum about "Greenman", "Easter Theatre",
and a few other songs, so they ought to be buying their copy of "AV1" as
soon as they can order one.  Maybe Paul will stock it at "The Mystical

Loads of interesting stuff in my back issues of Chalkhills; some seems to
demand comment:

Lot of people writing about "ES" and its goodness or badness, but Brent's
post is the one I liked best because of the wonderful oblique Monty Python
reference.  Silly bunt indeed.  I'm really not so sure about the history of
the LP and wanted to share my experience.  I bought it back when it was
brand new in good old New Jersey, either at Cheap Thrills in New Brunswick
or at Korvette's (or whatever it was called at that time) at Blue
Star/Watchung, and it was a DOUBLE ALBUM.  No special import sticker, no
special nothing at all.  So I'm not so sure about this "pre-packaging into
a single LP" stuff.  Could it be that two versions of the record were
available in the US right from the start?

Half of Chalkhills got involved in the debate over good and bad music,
square and non-square (C-Moon?), fogey and young, commercial and
non-commercial, and it was very very enjoyable to read.  But the best post
on the entire topic (while not overlooking Kevin's excellent "in the eyes
of a teen" view on what's good and what isn't) was T. "Over the Hedge"
Lewis' fabulous "Who the hell IS that!?!" post.  Yes, that is the true
essence of discovering XTC or anything really good, and was exactly what I
thought in 1980 when they played "Towers of London" and I just dropped my
jaw.  In fact, it was ALMOST my conversion to New Wave, but I "was already
Catholic", so to speak.  Squeeze had beaten XTC to the punch.  My reaction,
when I first heard "If I Didn't Love You" was, if I recall correctly: "Who
the hell IS that!?!"

And continuing with good and bad and commercial: Waddy Wachtel, producer of
The Church's "Starfish", apparently given the thumbs up here as "acceptable
music" (at least by Ben), is a man whose work can be seen on records as
varied as James Taylor/Carly Simon to solo Beatles to Andrew Gold and Linda
Ronstadt in the "Alison"/"It's So Easy" days.  The man is all over the
place.  And I'm sure he's as proud of his work with Linda as he is with The
Church.  Where are the boundaries between good and bad?  In everybody's own
head, that's where!

One last thought for today, then you can get on with your regular
Chalkhills programming: Thanks all of you (especially Yoshiko) for the tips
re.  Move/ELO/Jeff Lynne, I'll have to follow this up.  Since I was one of
the ones who has treated Lynne poorly in this digest, I would just like to
state my position.  He tends to stamp everything he does with a loud *JEFF
LYNNE*, but I too am a big fan of George Harrison's "Cloud Nine" as well as
both Wilburys records.  "When We Was Fab" is truly fab, a wonderful piece
full of humor and a genuine compliment to the Beatles (and Ringo's playing
is magnificent!).  But both of the above projects were co-produced, and the
song co-written by George.  When you hear the Wilburys, what are your
favorite songs, or better, what are your *least* favorite?  My least
favorite are always the Lynne numbers, because as good as he is, he -- like
Paul McC to some extent -- seems, *nowadays*, to need the "mitigating"
factor of another writer who takes out the "over-Lynneness" of his work.

The Lynne production of "Free As A Bird"/"Real Love" was overblown and
incredibly "un-Beatley", and far WORSE than "WWWF", although the former
were "genuine" Beatles and the latter only a "tribute".

I do like parts of "New World Record", though, although even then, I didn't
see the real Beatles connection in the music that everyone constantly
talked about (and just cuz he sings "like the Beatles in Hey Jude", or
because Bev Bevan started using "pseudo-Ringo" fills doesn't make a song
Beatley for me).  I appreciate Lynne but feel that nowadays, he has a
genuine Phil Collins-like problem, too sugary those hooks, they taste great
the first few bites and then you get entirely sick and tired of them.

Do what you will but harm none.

- Jeff


End of Chalkhills Digest #5-240

Go back to the previous page.