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Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-239


         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 239

                  Thursday, 29 July 1999

Today's Topics:

                      Yes, Mr. Leach
                         Flotsam
                         Homespun
            Japanese mini-album was cancelled.
                       CDR trading
              Re: Sting and Remain In Light
            To Dom: This ringing in my ears...
                   White Music - PUNK?
                  To punk or not to punk
                       DOM DOM DOM
                            !
                      Party 8th Aug
                          Sting
            yes, more hip-hop (you'll like it)
                 Mattacks and Mock Tudor
                       Commercials
                   All Manner of Things
                        Any NEWS?
                       Rock of Ages
           Peter Gabriel, the Unsuccessful One
         the importance and relevance of Rock...

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Another year's gone by, the world's grown older.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-ID: <379EE1EA.D6DE9917@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:56:42 -0400
From: Todd and Jennifer Bernhardt <toddjenn@erols.com>
Subject: Yes, Mr. Leach

Hi:

Re: all this hoohah about Yes defining the 70s -- I also balked at that
when I first read that, but when I thought about it, they're as good a
choice as any.  At their height (roughly 1970-72, up through "Close to the
Edge"), they defined all that was good about prog-rock, which at its best
was an attempt to merge Western classical traditions and other complex
music forms with rawk-an-roll, creating intelligent music with cojones. At
their worst (basically, descending from "Tales" onward), they defined all
that was bad about the music -- ponderous, redundant, endless songs with
ridiculous lyrics, cliched and derivative compositional structures, a
steadfast refusal by Jon Anderson to let testosterone thicken his vocal
chords -- and thus helped spawned Punk in all its fuck-this-shit,
three-chords-is-all-you-get glory.

Of course, that doesn't explain Disco, but I don't know if _anybody_ can
(or particularly wants to) explain Disco.

> Hello, I'm Winslow Leach. And I'd like to introduce
> Hypeless.com, the site where YOU become an inside
> source. Where you post your thoughts an opinions under
> a nom de plume. As a result, you can say anything
> you'd like.

Like, I've created a Web site and am now promoting it under a nom de plume?
Winslow Leach, hyping Hypeless.com.

Dude. Please.

--Todd

------------------------------

Message-Id: <199907281311.PAA04074@mail.coss.nl>
From: "Mark R. Strijbos" <mast@coss.nl>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:13:58 +0200
Subject: Flotsam

Dear Chalkers,

A couple of minor issues:

> Hey, I like Yes and other progressive artists and groups of the 70s. I
> don't see what's wrong with them.
Nothing - if you are into capes and dry ice...

> Name me some artists and groups that top any of the progressive
> groups of the 70s.
XTC ?

Seriously: of course "prog rock" has (or rather: had) its merits, but as
far as i'm concerned the only good thing to come out of that period is
the fact that it triggered the whole punk/new wave "back to the basics"
movement.

I can still remember those days when bands were ranked according to
the size of their PA system or the number of trucks they employed to
schlepp it (insert reference to Pink Floyd's Umma Gumma sleeve here)
Do we really want to go that route again?

> Question...When did R&B become stuff like Mariah Carey, Brittany
> Spears, Brandy, etc???
As far as i can tell nowadays "R&B" is not really used as an acronym
for Rhythm and Blues, but just as a generic P.C. term for what used to
be known as "black music" or "soul" when i was a kid

BTW: Miss Spears certainly does not belong in this category, no
matter how you define it.

> Why are you all going so hard on Sting? Apart from writing about
> subjects he knows nothing about, [..] he's a damn good songwriter.

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction ?

> Can someone tell me what the general problem with Sting is?

Yep, he's a pretentious prat!
Remember how he 'went native' to save the rainforest?
Very amusing... but not to those Indians who haven't seen a dime yet

yours in xtc,

Mark Strijbos @ The Little Lighthouse
http://come.to/xtc

------------------------------

From: WTDK@aol.com
Message-ID: <76792f23.24cfe3ef@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:41:19 EDT
Subject: Homespun

FYI before everyone saves up all their money for Apple Venus 1.2 (I
personally think the demos should be sold on their own. It would be
the right thing to do for those of us who have already shelled out
money for the album) Amazon has a listing for an album by Xtc called
Homespun. It won't be released until Oct. 12. Is this the Japanese
compilation of the singles or could it be the all the demos? Anybody
have a clue?

Wayne
wtdk@aol.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990728171235.18627@pearl.ocn.ne.jp>
From: Takashi Yamamoto <oomax@pearl.ocn.ne.jp>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 02:12:00 +0900
Subject: Japanese mini-album was cancelled.

Hi all!!!

I told the sale postponement of Japanese mini-album .
But the sale of Japanese mini-album was cancelled.
Eventually, in Japan, "homespun" seems to be sold in
September 17th.

Takashi in Japan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:50:29 -0400
From: Eric Foster <eric.foster@cwusa.com>
Subject: CDR trading
Message-id: <000001bed919$4e171d20$035424a6@Sug28225.sug.mci.com>

Hello All,

     I have just updated my tape and CDR trading list...I have no XTC in my
collection, but would love to make a trade for some! Please peruse my list,
and if anything is of interest, please let me know, and include your list
or URL. Currently, I am only capable of making CDR copies FROM EXISTING
CDRs, so if you find a cassette or vinyl item, it would have to be a tape
trade. I am working on this, but am currently stumped on mastering analog
to digital.

Hope to do some trading soon!

Eric

efoster@mindspring.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <379F4778.7080@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:10:00 -0700
From: Rich Bunnell <cbunnell@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Sting and Remain In Light

>I like Sting, but I think a lot of people in this group are jealous for
>how successful Sting has become.  They also think Sting is a pompus twit
>who is not that talented, wchich of course I don't think so.  He does a
>lot for charities, but that makes any musician look bad, because rock
>stars aren't supposed to care about anything.  That's why Peter Gabriel
>isn't successful anymore.

Actually I just don't care much for Sting because he keeps putting at
least one or two really promising songs on each of his albums then
filling the rest with a bunch of self-consciously "sophisticated" songs.
His first two albums were okay but it's like once he left the Police he
said "All right! I'm a solo artist! No more exciting music for me!" His
latest album in particular bored me almost completely to death.

>I noticed Yes popping up here the last few days. When I first heard
>River of Orchids, (beyond just saying "WOW") there was a familiarity to
>the "chorus" melody line that I could not pin down. I shuffled that
>thought to the back of my brain for a while, and dug out my copy of
>Remain In Light.  Structurally, ROO resembles what David Byrne was after
>on that album- no chord changes, just different melody lines over the
>original rythmic structure, and on some of the songs, the melody lines
>are superimposed over one another for a really thick texture-thing. I've
>always liked that Talking Heads album the best- it has an exuberance
>that's rare in music (that Adrian Belew guy!). So, I'd smugly made that
>connection,

The connection is definitely true (just listen to "Born Under Punches"
which opens the album) though I've already seen it proclaimed in a
less-than-flattering way:

(excerpt from reader review on XTC review page)

"In my opinion, "River Of Orchids" is not a great song. The strings
sound great, but as soon as Andy starts singing (off-beat, by the way) I
feel obliged to turn off the CD. Some of the counter melodies make it
sound like something from Remain In Light by Talking Heads, only BAD.
Really bad. I can't believe that so many people like it."

I don't agree with this guy one bit, mind you. In fact, I rank River Of
Orchids of at least equal to the cyclical one-chord compositions on that
album (which are all basically on its first side).

Rich Bunnell

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990728182238.20655.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: nross <phoenixyellowrose@rocketmail.com>
Subject: To Dom: This ringing in my ears...

How effective your words must be, Dom, to turn a bunch of letters into
a fully expressive face in my mind!

I like Sting, by the way. And I like Phil Collins' old stuff.

I AM being antagonistic here, for a point... I see Dom (and others)
putting down lots of artists that some of the posters like. Dom, you
defend your choice by saying something to the effect of "how
closeminded of you to put down Lauryn Hill or hip-hop, just because
you personally don't like it" But, you do the same Dom. I know. Your
response to my (or anyone) liking Sting or (shudder) Phil Collins
would be to spew. Or to say, "They Suck".  Its all opinion. I know A
LOT of people that think XTC sucks.  I am not saying to stop the
insults... please continue, they are very entertaining... and they are
your opinions. However, you seem extremely sensitive when anyone
chooses to "buck popularity" and say
Lauryn Hill sucks. Maybe they are not trying to be alternative. Maybe
they genuinely think her music sucks.

To be honest, chalkhillers' opinions have had an effect on mine.
I can no longer listen to Phil Collins' songs... my ears begin to ring
and I get chills up and down my spine. But you won't ruin Sting for
me, you won't you won't I tell you!!!!!!!!!!

-Nicole

------------------------------

From: "paolo di modica" <lemons@tin.it>
Subject: White Music - PUNK?
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:00:36 +0200
Message-ID: <001001bed92b$79d0c9e0$df81d8d4@pii350>

Giovanni wrote:
On a less polemic note: I remember that when I saw the Italian "White
Music" vinyl a friend of mine had (that was the reason we made friends in
the first place), it had an ugly "PUNK" logo printed on it, as if to say
"buy this, it's one of the records from that new wave of ultra-hip music
called 'punk'". That is the scene where XTC originally came from, not pop.
And I'm sure many of us got to know them together with, uhm, Sham 69, the
Buzzcocks and the Sex Pistols.
* ------------------------------------------------------
The cover of the LP of White Music, brings the writing PUNK in the Italian
edition. This has been an arbitrary motion of Virgin-Italy, a method to sell
more records. Andy Partridge when it came in visit near the Virgin Italia,
it stayed 'scandalized' seeing on the walls of the rooms the manifestos of
White Music with the written one that associated them to the movement Punk.
Surely the immediateness of the texts and speed in the arrangements has
deceived a lot of persons.
"This is Pop".

Ciao Gio
Ciao Chalkillers

Paolo Di Modica
lemons@tin.it
http://space.tin.it/io/pdimodic/xtc.htm

------------------------------

Message-Id: <199907281934.MAA24701@toucan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:30:03 -0600
Subject: To punk or not to punk
From: "Bob O'Bannon" <batchain@earthlink.net>

>>>(Punk) is the scene where XTC originally came from, not pop.
And I'm sure many of us got to know them together with, uhm, Sham 69, the
Buzzcocks and the Sex Pistols.<<<

I might take slight issue with this by pointing out that XTC didn't really
come "from" punk, but rather grew up alongside it. Andy himself has said
this several times in interviews. Punk opened the door for XTC, but it would
not be correct to say that XTC ever was a punk band.

Bob O

------------------------------

From: mollyfa@juno.com
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:45:23 -0400
Subject: DOM DOM DOM
Message-ID: <19990728.154858.2878.1.MollyFa@juno.com>

Dom Wrote:
<<Because he's shit. And anyone who thinks otherwise is a wanker. (See what
I mean? Get it out in the open - you'll feel much better!).....>>

So I'm a wanker?  I like Sting, but of course I can't like him when I'm
in this group, at least according to Dom.

Molly

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990728195817.26699.rocketmail@web128.yahoomail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:58:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tyler Hewitt <tahewitt@yahoo.com>
Subject: !

Okay, Tyler and Ben, how about this one:

"Hello, I'm Andy Partridge for First Alert smoke alarms. Don't settle for
less! Remember, First Alert alarms have one, two, three, four, five sensors
working overtime -- for your safety."

DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!

We have a weiner, folks!

------------------------------

Message-ID: <379F637A.28BF5CA3@which.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:09:30 +0100
From: B Blanchard <b.blanchard@which.net>
Subject: Party 8th Aug

PAAARRRRRRTTTTTTTYYYYYYYY

Sunday 8th August 1999 2.30pm onwards in the gardens near the car
park by the Park Rangers Hut in the middle of PECKHAM RYE PARK,
LONDON SE15.

David and I are having a party to celebrate the tenth anniversary
of the day we met.
(Altogether now - aahhhh).

Many of my friends will be at the Edinburgh Festival or the west
country for the eclipse or on holiday or just hate us and refuse
to come thinking we're gonna spend all afternoon snogging behind
the bushes.  Well we might do that but come along and watch if
you would like.

Bring friends and drinks and nice things to eat and be prepared
to mingle with each other. We can't afford to feed and drink (?)
you all and have no idea how many people are turning up.  May
just be me and David!

Anyway, in the park look for a party like looking ensemble of
people just by the Park Ranger's Office by the car park, ask
anyone for me, Belinda, and introduce yourself!    Maybe we can
get a separate little XTC thing going! Smell the Peckham Roses!
They've been beautiful this year.

Peckham Rye Park is in any London map book, south east of London.
Hugely difficult to get to by public transport though I
understand it can be done.  No underground line. There's a
British Rail (Peckham Rye) station so ask anyone where the park
is from there. It's about a 20 minute walk one straight road.
Busses serve the park: 63  78  484  12  P3

Now, if it's cold and raining the party will be in our flat.  Our
flat is tiny and a mess.  So it may not be suitable if millions
turn up.  But then who wants to go all the way to Peckham in the
rain, right? Let's just pray for sunshine.

RSVP to me b.blanchard@which.net.  John Bartlett, Dom, it would
be nice to see you guys again!

BELINDA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:07:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Brown" <ringostr@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Sting
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.10.9907281457420.42132-100000@dante04.u.washington.edu>

Molly wrote:

> I like Sting, but I think a lot of people in this group are jealous for
> how successful Sting has become.  They also think Sting is a pompus twit
> who is not that talented, wchich of course I don't think so.  He does a
> lot for charities, but that makes any musician look bad, because rock
> stars aren't supposed to care about anything.

I don't think anyone would argue that working with charities makes sting
look bad.  in my book that's the one thing he has going for him!

>That's why Peter Gabriel isn't successful anymore.

Um uh no sorry. does not compute!  Peter Gabriel isn't successful these
days because he hasn't put out an album in nearly 8 years and since 1980
he only has 3 pop albums out!  now each of those three has earned him
serious chart hits.  And i'm sure when PG's Up finally comes out he'll
re-establish his chat prowess.

 Jason Wilson Brown - History & Canadian Studies - Seattle, WA USA
"Watch Out Here Comes Gordon!" -Elvis Costello

------------------------------

From: dan@gge.com
Message-ID: <379F7EA2.F363DB8E@gge.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:05:28 -0700
Subject: yes, more hip-hop (you'll like it)

i have to share this, as it has a timely relevance to current chalkhills
threads. since not many here seem to like hip-hip and even less know
anything about it (or have i got that backwards?), i've brought in an
expert. here is a customer review i read on amazon.com:

    (one out of five stars)
    A music fan from Toronto, Canada , July 24, 1999
    Dumb Fans

    people think hip-hop fans are stupid. the reason for this is
    most hip-hop fans are stupid.  hip-hop fans get into artists
    just to go with the flow with what their friends are listening
    to or whats being shown on MTV and BET every hour. Then you get
    brain washed by artists like Jay-Z and Nas who tell you 'not to
    hate' and 'keep it real'. They tell you not to hate so no one
    can critisize their material. Keeping it real is just a gimmick
    to get people to think that the artist is representing them
    (black people) by only telling the truth. Jay-Z and Nas both mad
    some good material back in the earlier part of the decade, but
    now they are just releasing $|-|!T because they know people will
    just by their album because they are what everyone listens
    to. If you want to be a smart hip-hop fan don't just buy albums
    because the artist is cool, or because thats what everyone else
    is listening to. Make a choice actualy based on the artist's, or
    the producer's skills, and if you can't diffrentiate between
    whats good rapping and what isn't, then maybe you should pull
    your pants up and start listening to jazz. 

i love the "They tell you not to hate so no one can critisize their
material." line. and the last sentence too.
and speaking of not talking about xtc, here is my list of "10 bands that
will define the 90s":
nirvana, pearl jam, smashing pumpkins, janes addiction,
alanis morisette, celine dion, hootie + blowfish, beck, garth brooks, &
greenday.

conspicuously lacking in hip-hop or r/b artists, but i am shamefully
ignorant of these styles. 2pac? dr. dre? are these good guesses?

but most of all, i'll remember the sun,
dan

------------------------------

Message-ID: <000101bed94c$21b05a20$765791d2@johnboud>
From: "John Boudreau" <aso1@mocha.ocn.ne.jp>
Subject: Mattacks and Mock Tudor
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:28:33 +0900

Martin van Reppard wrote :

>From the August issue of Mojo on Richard Thompson's new (mid-August)
>album Mock Tudor: "Beck associates Tom Rothrock and Rob Schnapf produce;
>features son Teddy, Dave Mattacks and Danny Thompson."

Dave Mattacks presented me with a cassette of " Mock Tudor " a few months
back ... I suggest that EVERYONE on the list run out and get it in August .

John in Japan

------------------------------

Message-ID: <000201bed94c$240c99a0$765791d2@johnboud>
From: "John Boudreau" <aso1@mocha.ocn.ne.jp>
Subject: Commercials
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 07:42:08 +0900

>So Nissan is using The Smiths' "How Soon is Now?" and Isuzu is using The
>Buzzcocks' "What do I Get?".  Honda is ripping off "88 Lines About 44 Women
>(but who's counting?" in its ads.

The Japanese have been using songs like this in their TV ads for years.
My friend swears he heard a cut off AV 1 in a sports car ad a few months
back.  A lot of rockers end up doing TV commercials over here , too. I
will never forget David Byrne selling Nescafe coffee ...

John in Japan

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990729002508.20199.rocketmail@web702.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Susperia Five <susperia5@yahoo.com>
Subject: All Manner of Things

From: "Drew MacDonald" <drewmacdonald@mediaone.net>
Subject: more commericals

"Hello, I'm Andy Partridge for First Alert smoke alarms. Don't settlefor
less! Remember, First Alert alarms have one, two, three, four, five
sensors working overtime -- for your safety

Drew!!! Funny funny funny.  I'm gonna chuckle for days.

As far as the "Rock Is Dead" debate, I'll be short and sweet (that's up
for debate itself) in my contribution to the fray as it were.  Seems to
me that mediocrity wins out in almost every situation.  The great are
appreciated by the few, thus our gathering here to admire people like
XTC (and other mailing lists for the like of Shriekback and ELO),
whilst the merely mediocre acheive apotheosis with the Great Thundering
Herd (ergo the traffic jam caused by over 6000 Britney Spears fans in
Seattle the other day).  So is rock dead?  No.  It has it's levels of
life, though, and, given the "stars" that have been so admired by most,
particularly this decade, I would call it living; rather a meager and
mediocre existence.  Ho hum.  Some really excellent artists that have
come from this new era of rock are: Live, Radiohead, New Radicals,
Barenaked Ladies, October Project, and Dead Can Dance.  But none of
them really compare in suck-cess to the Backstreet Boys! ::she says,
her voice dripping with sarcasm::

And now for something completely different:  I had heard the AV2 is
coming out in August.  Is that true?

That's all folks!
Peace and Victory,
Angelina

===
The value of anything is how much it hurts ~~ Shriekback

------------------------------

From: "Neil Oliver" <lizneil@netcom.ca>
Subject: Any NEWS?
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:35:39 -0700
Message-ID: <000001bed962$ab0b00c0$4148b5cf@default>

Does anyone actually have any NEWS about XTC like - what is happening with
the new album? There hasn't been any actual information in Chalkhills for
ages. Can anyone who's in touch with Andy or Colin help us?

------------------------------

Message-Id: <l03130300b3c505cb1c4e@[208.250.30.192]>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:53:09 -0400
From: MinerWerks <dminer@gte.net>
Subject: Rock of Ages

Buenos, Tardes, amigos! (Yes, I'm still in Mexico)

Lots of good feedback on these intertwined topics of "is rock dead?"/"who
is the most memorable artist...?"/"is rock better than hip hop?" etc.

In regard to Giovanni Giusti's original post (in digest #5-235) on the
history of rock n roll, it's interesting to me that nobody usually argues
the conclusion that Elvis Presley was the most important "rock n roll"
artist of the 50s and the Beatles were the most important "rock n roll"
artists of the 60s. The disagreements begin in relation to the decade of
the 70s.

Steve Perley wrote:

>I got to thinking about the fact that the 70's are often dismissed as a
>horrible time in pop music history.  I guess that Disco gave the decade a
>bad name.  But if you think about it, that's the first decade of the rock
>era that you CAN'T sum up with one group or artist.  Sure, there's Yes.
>What about Kiss?  Admit it, you loved 'em!  Aerosmith?  ELO?  Solo Paul
>McCartney (i.e. Wings) was huge.  There's Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan,
>Chicago, and countless "sensitive singer-songwriters" like Dan Fogleburg,
>Cat Stevens, James Taylor...(they're back again, except they're women now!
>Lilleth Fair, anybody?  That's nothing against women, by the way.  Just
>observing a trend.)  Even some really cool bands like Big Star hail from
>the alleged Age of Crap.
>Then there are my personal favorites from the 70's; The Ramones, The
>Damned, The Clash, and of course, XTC.

I guess we've gone around this issue, but never asked one interesting
question: WHY can't we define a "most important" artist of the 70s? We're
far enough removed from that decade, don't you think? I'm very curious now.
Here are some ideas, and I want to hear everyone else's feedback.

Could it be that The Beatles broke open the genre of rock n roll so wide
that there was no great innovation left to make in the 70s?

Or was there a shift through the 60s in rock n roll from development to
establishment? In other musical genres of the 60s, it's harder to define
one important force, because those genres were established.

Or did cultural forces cause this? Steve also suggested:

>In the 70's, especially early on, FM radio was a lot more diverse.

Did it become so diverse that there was no clear cut dominant force in music?

Or are we asking the wrong question altogether? Could the idea of a "most
important" rock n roll artist be irrelevant after the 60s, because "rock n
roll" was no longer the right genre to define influence on culture?

Or maybe the 70s were just an unusual decade, where other areas of popular
culture or media (television, politics) put music into the background? I've
suggested that audiences in the 90s have treated music this way.

Perhaps all of these factors played a part.

<nonexistent segue>

Thanx back to Karl, for there is nothing better to me than a compliment
ending in a laugh-out-loud joke:

>PS Thanx to Derek for piece on UMG. By the by, you couldn't come
>up with a name better connoting evil, soulless, all-encompassing
>villainy than Universal Music Group unless you owned the
>trademark to "Snidely Whiplash".

PS. Could it be that we're heading toward more per digest mentions of Phil
Collins than Andy Partridge?

= Derek =

------------------------------

Message-Id: <4.1.19990728214332.00a6c980@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:52:56 -0500
From: Suzanne Cerquone <bravegirl@earthlink.net>
Subject: Peter Gabriel, the Unsuccessful One

Molly incites:

>>He does a
lot for charities, but that makes any musician look bad, because rock
stars aren't supposed to care about anything. That's why Peter Gabriel
isn't successful anymore.<<

PG not successful?  Cuz of charities?  Sorry, my dear, that's just plain
friggin' BS.

And what constitutes successful for you--rock/pop albums released every
year to two years?   If you really like Gabriel, you'll know that in the
last few years he's guested on many cool albums, composed songs for a few
soundtracks, released a few multimedia projects (including his own CD-ROM),
kept his Real World studios going with various exciting world music
projects, and is now composing music for England's big millenium gig at the
Greenwich Dome.  Oh yeah, and he's working on a new album.  He does this on
his own sweet time anyways, despite all his other projects.

And he commits his time to charities.  Cuz he believes in human rights and
stuff.  And he's got the cash to do it with.

Yeah, he's unsuccessful.  Poor Pete.

--Suzanne

------------------------------

From: shawn_berkeley@frontiercorp.com
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:31:39 -0400
Message-ID: <0003eb9f.c21508@frontiercorp.com>
Subject: the importance and relevance of Rock...

    I wanted to delurk a moment to comment on the recent debate on the
    importance and relevance of Rock and contemporary music:  Year after
    year this discussion crops up on this list and reason it does is that
    fans come to xtc from several areas. Some of these include:

    -Musicians: who admire xtc for their technical ability.  These fans
    seem to also like Phil, Sting, Yes, King Crimson, Genesis etc.  They
    may have little to no contemporary likes at the moment.  In general,
    it is these fans who are more wary of contemporary R and B, hiphop,
    and beats oriented music.  Favorite album: O&L

    -Punks: who arrived at xtc via new wave and post-punk. These fans
    might have more diverse tastes, and accept that the above listed
    genres are today's "punk" in some respects ([percieved] rebellion,
    disrespect and assimilation of the underground).  They certainly
    dislike the above bands for their pompousness and the reverence show
    to them by The musicians.  Favorite album:  BS or ES

    -The "Pop" fans: arrived at xtc via OL to AV1.  These fans may just
    like good "pop" songs in the classic sense.  They love the whole
    Beatles angle of the group and worship Andy's song-writing prowess.
    They just love Squeeze, Crowded House, Beatles etc.  Favorite album:
    AV1

	 Please understand that I am not saying that all list-members fall
    into one of these categories. In fact no one may exactly fit into one.
    But I feel that these are relevant generalities.
	 Well, if nothing else, this lists serves to bring together people
    from these diverse "cultures" and that's why the list erupts into
    these debates as such.
	  Today's market, due to the impact of the media upon consumers
    (i.e. this list on the internet) and the younger age of the purchaser
    has served to diversify the market, accelerate sales quickly, reduce
    the life-cycle of a band (or musician) and broaden the available
    genres significantly.  Comparing the 60's and 70's to the 80's and
    most significantly to the 90's in light of the above changes in rules
    is difficult at best.
	 Is the top 40 as horrible as it has always been?  Perhaps- but
    this just represents the best sellers (and most played) right?  The
    advantage we have today is that an xtc can comfortably survive because
    of today's market place- we can all agree this is a good thing.

	 My own feeling is that music is as healthy now as it ever has
    been.  There are more bands to buy and listen to (mp3.com anyone?)
    than ever before, and this can be oddly dis-settling to some; it's
    almost as if some say "the top 40 is horrible all the rest must be
    too".  While there is as much crap as ever, there is also a lot of
    solid music to hear as well.

	 While I have only been truly listening to music for less than 20
    years I consider myself a fan of music in general and consume it
    voraciously. I come to xtc through Senses on MTV in the early 80's and
    while I can be terribly elitist in my tastes- I cross genres readily
    and deliberately.  I am after several things depending on the genre:
    the soul of a song, the rhythm and the song-writing.  My opinion is
    that Yes and Sting and Phil lack all of these items in the extreme.
    They polarize this list not because they support charities nor due to
    their popularity, because they are pompous and undeserving of their
    fame or adulation.  While artist such as Ray Davies, The Beatles,
    Brian Wilson, Bowie, Chic, the brother's Johnson, Eno, Georgio
    Moroder, Kraftwerk, Robert Fripp, Can, Nue, Nick Drake, David Sylvian,
    My Bloody Valentine,  Dr Alex Patterson, Underworld, Belle and
    Sebastian, Cassius, and Kruder and Dorfmeister to name just a few
    exemplify some, if not all of these traits.  In the end, of course,
    this is just my opinion.  Thanks for the bandwidth, -Shamus

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End of Chalkhills Digest #5-239
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