Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-211

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 211

                  Wednesday, 19 May 1999

Today's Topics:

                   New to the List ...
                     Andy's Hello CD
                      divers alarums
           The printed word should be forgiven
           XTC quotes in Rolling Stone magazine
                      Dead Can Sing
                     Harvest Festival
                   Re: This Is The End
               See Dave Gregory play live !
                Green Man in another land
                   I'm not Andy either.
                    Madtown, Greenman
                     Myths and Hymns
            Any Bruce Cockburn fans out there?
                          Me too
        Stuff it in my mouth? Please to bend down!
                         The Fall


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7 (John Relph <>).

It's just that wild old wind that tears us all apart.


Message-ID: <00c101bea0d4$33419700$>
From: "d. Taylor Singletary" <>
Subject: New to the List ...
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 19:14:44 -0700

So, here I am, just another woried little citizen in this modern day
Nonsuch. Albeit, a new citizen.
I recently came into XTC (had Go2 a while back) through Apple Venus. Loved
it -- a whole nother world for we indulgers of the psychedelics. [musicaly
only, of course.]

Since that came out I have purchased Skylarking, Waxworks, Oranges &
Lemons, and Nonsuch. In that order. I have decided I liked Skylarking and
on so much more than the stuff on Waxworks -- but I see potential to enjoy
it. [I am an avid Oingo Boingo fan, I should be able to get into it (it's
common ground).]

Other bands I enjoy: the Divine Comedy, The Smiths, Talking Heads, Oingo
Boingo, Beck, Cake, Kraftwerk, Soul Coughing..
I read: Kerouac, Burroughs, Kafka, Womack, Robbins, Stein, Garland..

I am nineteen years old, & live in San Francisco going to SFSU.

That's me.
d. Taylor Singletary, word technician


Message-Id: <>
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:53:07 -0700
From: Jason Kirkman__Carol Kawase <>
Subject: Andy's Hello CD

Hello, everyone--

Before you lay down a big bid on Andy's Hello CD on eBay, you might want to
go to, click on catalog, then click on hello.  Still $43 for
the whole set of 11 CDs, including Andy's and the sampler with My Brown
Guitar on it, just as it always was.  If I recall, someone recently paid
$430 on eBay for Andy's CD.  Do your homework, save your money.

Jason Kirkman


Message-Id: <v01540b02b366954fb1ba@[]>
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:58:25 +1200
From: (James Dignan)
Subject: divers alarums

>The song is simply a rather careless distillation of a mood that had >been
>pervasive throughout society, and particularly the >counterculture, for at
>least the preceding few months. John didn't make peace and love
>fashionable with this song: he was conforming to

at the risk of adding 2c further to this discussion, what about the 1965
Lennon composition "The word"?

Also, amazingly, an XTC question - someone told me recently that Andy
Partridge played on one of Joan Armatrading's albums. Is this true? If so,
which one, and how did this come about?

oh, and to all pagan babies out there :) I send the following blessing in
the name of the four elements, courtesy of B. Andrews & co - "May the fire
be your friend and the sea rock you gently, may the moon light your way
till the wind sets you free". Yup, it ain't just A. Partridge that writes
pagan lyrics!



Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 00:38:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: The printed word should be forgiven
Message-ID: <>

Hello Chalkhillians,

I'm excited and relieved to find some zesty posts on the list, after what
I thought was a little lull following the storm of enthusiasm that
greeted the long-awaited album's release. Here are a few of the threads
that got my adrenaline going, and spur me to -- tentatively -- join the
fray once more.

First off, from issue #207, I salute Greg's poised response to Todd
Bernhardt's rather nasty outburst at his take on Mr. Partridge's presumed

>To clarify, I never suggested Andy Partridge is a bad person, father, or
>friend, nor do I want to speculate. But it is apparent that he's had a
>disproportionately large number of clashes with a lot of different people
>directly affecting his band, music, career. Disportionate to what or
>whom, you ask. Colin Moulding and Dave Gregory, for two. Nothing
>everybody here didn't already know, of course.

[Here I've edited out a bit of Gene's post, to get to the point...]

>Anyway, even [if] you regard my view as passing judgement, it's not
>uninformed. And making informed judgement is a natural part of any
>critical discourse, which this public forum certainly is. For that, I too
>am glad Andy Partridge doesn't read this list. (I was counting on it last
>week, obviously!)  I wouldn't [want to be] in his shoes. But my main
>point is, if we were to apply Todd's logic, the work of every scholar,
>writer and historian, among others, would all be shit, to use his term.

>Why Andy does the things he does as he runs his band seems to me a very
>relevant topic, because this is an xtc discussion group.

A most reasonable assumption, and one which I heartily endorse (as any one
here who has bothered to read my -- long -- post in issue #143 might
remember). About Mr. Partridge's presence or absence from these electronic
epistolary exchanges, though, I can't help but wonder: why should it
bother anyone, at least as concerns the content of anyone's posts? Should
any participant hereabouts censor themselves out of concern for the
feelings of any of the band's members or entourage? Come on! I'm sure
they've read worse in published forums (i.e.: music criticism, or plain
vanilla criticism) than most anyone can spew forth amongst the ranks of
the faithful roaming these chalkhills, and isn't it Mr. Partridge himself
who sang eloquently: "I believe the printed word should be
forgiven/Doesn't matter what it said"? I guess we can safely hazard that
he would extend that immunity to the e-words traded amongst the XTC

Judging by how one chalkhillian or other stands up to Mr. Partridge's
defense with zealous solicitude every time the man's character is
impugned, or thought to be, you'd think the man *was* an emotional cripple
who would be unable to put in perspective the bad, bad things said about
him that could pop up here. Somehow, the thought of Andy Partridge being
seriously pained, or even chagrined, by the discussions unfolding amongst
ourselves is a preposterous one, on at least two levels: first, the man
sure doesn't come off as a cream puff, what with his scathing wit and his
steady artistic course maintained against all odds during the last few
harrowing years (of course, a lot of arena-rock fixtures on the Terry
Chambers wavelenght might consider Partridge something of a sissy for his
opting out of live performance, but the less said about this particular
outlook the better); and second, the idea that either character
assassination OR a sycophantic rebuttal of such would undermine or boost
such an artist's confidence in himself sounds a bit grotesque, and more
like a fan's wishful thinking than anything else ("HE read my post! I got
noticed!" -- after which "Dear Andy" begins to sound a lot like "Dear

This brings me to the lawyerly defense put forth by Mr. Bernhardt, in the
selfsame Chalkhills #207 (my, that was a fast kickback!):

>I wasn't offended [by Greg's post]. It made me angry to see the kind of
>writing that keeps Andy off the list in the first place.

Was that substantiated, or just idle speculation on Partridge's stance
towards this list? (To take on the cross-questioning manner employed by
Mr. Bernhardt towards Greg, for a second.)

Mr. Bernhardt goes on to add:

>As far as I know, this public forum is about the music and art of XTC,
>and how it relates to us, the participants in the forum. It's not -- IMO,
>and I guess I might be wrong -- a place to bandy about ill-informed
>theories about why the members are living their lives in one way or

I, too, strongly suspect you might be wrong; after all, one can find in
Chalkhills what could be termed "ill-informed" theories of everything
ranging from the "meaning" of the songs to the particulars of the
Gregory/Partridge split, and has this in any way hurt the level of
discussion to be found here? (Which should hover at what "correct" level,
or around which "pertinent" topics? Determined by whom? From the number of
times Partridge has been hailed as a "genius", it's no wonder speculation
is rife about the make-up of such an artist, and that sure makes him the
main topic on a variety of levels...)

>Knowing the art and knowing the artist are _not_ the same
>thing. Responsible critics, scholars, writers and historians know this.

At least one sensible observation, which doesn't altogether remove the
possibility of considering the artist as a person just the same (as far as
I'm concerned, knowing more about the man hasn't detracted much from my
enjoyment of his music, if at all; but it sure adds a human dimension to
my "rapport", mediated as it may be, "with" XTC, and this community of

Mr.Bernhardt goes on to conclude:

>I care about Chalkhills and its -- certainly, when compared to other
>similar Internet lists -- consistently high level of discourse, and so I
>tend to get rather vehement in my defense of what I see as the proper
>rules of engagement.

Well, if Chalkhills' level of discourse is "consistently high", surely
there's no need to review its "rules of engagement", be it vehemently or
with a Mother Hen compunction to prevent any word from reaching Andy
Partridge's critical mind, is there?

I think Belinda Blanchard's post two issues later (#209) pretty much sums
up how one can be annoyed by a particular topic without thinking this
should curtail anyone's right to write what they bloody well think:

>The Todd / Gene whoever else row about Andy's motives and
>character and all that stuff is as dull as shit.  It would be
>fine if I was learning something or even being entertained but
>I'm not. Maybe everyone else is!  Who cares!  I'll defend
>anyone's right to say what they want on the list. Go ahead and
>bitch away!

And one "KL" -- sorry, I'm going by the initials at the end of your post
-- also had some apt remarks along those lines in the same issue:

>The point is that on the internet there are REAL people with REAL
>emotions unleashed by the safety of relative anonymity.  So there's bound
>to be some heat.  And if you can't stand the heat...fine.  Be gone.
>There.  I'm done with my rant.  Apologies to those offended by
>language.  But one more post whining about what Chalkhills IS, ISN'T or
>SHOULD BE and I am going to scream.

"Bitch away, scream, but at least post." Could these be sensible rules of
engagement for anyone passionate enough about XTC to take the trouble of
writing about that fact?

Bitch away! (Just kidding! ;-/)

Mario Beaulac


Message-ID: <00aa01bea111$4a1293c0$>
From: "Victor Rocha" <>
Subject: XTC quotes in Rolling Stone magazine
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 02:32:02 -0700

here's a couple of quotes from the boys on the subject of MP3's

"[Online music] won't replace albums. It'll just be something else."
"I think people will still want the iconic little objects, the
Virgin-Mary-with-blood-watering-out-of-her-eyes object."

toodles, Victor Rocha


Message-Id: <>
From: Janis VanCourt <>
Subject: Dead Can Sing
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:39:32 -0400

<<What would Elvis sing?>>

I actually think the dead Elvis would've sounded great on "Pink Thing".

For the living Elvis, I'd choose "Train Running Low On Soul Coal".


In this hinterland between young and old


Message-ID: <>
From: "Ralph Simpson DeMarco" <>
Subject: Harvest Festival
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:30:25 PDT

Dear One Arm Bandits and Affiliated Members:

In XTC Song Stories I believe the point is made that Andy's narrator in the
song confuses the Harvest Festival yearly celebration with a wedding. I
never thought for a moment that the girl who gives Andy the "longing look"
is the same girl walking down the aisle with the other chosen boy. I assume
that she is sitting, like Andy, in the audience.

Please read Song Stories and check out the posted lyrics in Chalkhills.
This may avoid some confusion in the future (maybe).



Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <>
From: John Relph <relph@cthulhu>
Subject: Re: This Is The End

eddie st .martin <> wrote:
>  I was looking in chalkhills at some lyrics. For "the end" it has "of
>kicking ass and runny noses" I hear it as "of itching ass and runny noses"

Oddly enough, in
it says:

    This is the end
    Of all the Wars of all the Roses
    This is the end
    Of kissing ass and rubbing noses

So I am not sure which lyrics you were looking at!

	-- John


Message-Id: <>
From: steve mcallister <>
Date: Tue, 18 May 99 12:31:27 -0500
Subject: test.des.

this thread has got me thinking.
I like allowing those that are disbanded or dead in the game.

Roads Girdle the Globe - Rage Against the Machine
Mekkanick (sp?) Dancing - Frank Zappa
Towers of London - The Clash
Yacht Dance - Seal with Leo Kottke
Making Plans for Nigel or 1,000 Umbrellas - Fionna Apple
Ladybird - Ray Charles
Desert Island - Beck
Living in a Haunted Heart - Neil Finn (or Crowded House)
Garden of Earthly Delights - Take 6
Train Running Low on Soul Coul - Tom Waits
Mole From the Ministry - The Zombies
Another Satellite - Jellyfish

I'll stop at twelve, else I'll keep going on and on and. . . .


Message-ID: <000d01bea156$6dc2e0a0$b84c95c1@debraedm>
From: "Debra Edmonds" <>
Subject: See Dave Gregory play live !
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:46:16 +0100

Hi All

I met up with Dave Gregory yesterday lunchtime (as he helped me choose my
new guitar at Kempster's), and he mentioned to me that he will be playing
live very soon in Swindon.  He has agreed to play with David Marx's band
"The Refugees" at the KosovAid Concert to be held on Sunday 30th May at The
Oasis, Swindon.  And guess what??  Barry Andrews will also be joining Dave
on stage to play keyboards!!  There are a number of other artistes
performing as well.

So, for those of you who want to catch these two ex-members playing live on
stage together, you'd better get your tickets fast!  Tickets are #15.00
each and can be obtained from The Oasis on 01793 445401.

That's all for now!


co-creator of Dave's "Guitargonauts" website - it's coming soon...........


Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:57:30 -0400
From: james isaacs <>
Subject: Green Man in another land

Ye who find chalk in them thar hills-
I just finished up my first year of graduate school (argh), and one of the
(several) papers I wrote concerned a Swiss writer named Jeremias Gotthelf
(a pen name- real name Albert Bitzius).  Back in the 1820s, he wrote a book
called "The Black Spider", and within the text is a mention of a "Green
Man."  Unlike our Green Fellow, this Green man is the devil, and is a
pretty mean mofo- actually, wouldn't the devil be mean?  Just though it
could shed some light on the subject. When I saw that "The Man Who Murdered
Love" was slated for AV2, my wrists just about fell off.  It is one of the
few Andy demos that I actually despise.  It sounded dated when I heard it
in 1992.  I hope it is dramatically improved, or I'll be treating it like
others treat bonus tracks in the middle of CDs- with the "skip"
button. Sorry for the meanness, but certainly I am not alone on this one,
am I?  Little help?


Message-ID: <C926D35F7ED6D211836C00805FC15F4E65DA38@LNY-S-EXCHANGE>
From: "Lieman, Ira" <>
Subject: I'm not Andy either.
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:33:22 -0400

Try these "in my dreams" tributes out:

Rook - Tori Amos
Omnibus - Joe Jackson
The Last Balloon - Aimee Mann

And some rancid food for thought:

Living Thru Another Cuba - Coolio
All You Pretty Girls - RuPaul

Hi Gene. :)

> -ira


Message-ID: <>
Date: 18 May 99 13:41:59 CDT
From: Mor_Goth <>
Subject: Madtown, Greenman

First of all, greetings to drbauman.  As an alumnus, its nice to see the  As to your question regarding album titles, #37 on the
Chalkhill faq speaks to this.  I give this info as one who has recently
been chastised for not reading my faq carefully enough.  :) One other thing
which the faq doesn't mention is that "Transistor Blast" comes from "This
is Pop?", though I don't know if that counts because that song is actualy
on that compilation, as well as a previous recording.

> I am really stumped with Greenman? Could some people give me their idea
> of who he is? As I want to play it at my wedding in 6 weeks time. God,
> Nature? Who the fek is the Greenman?????
> Peter Mellow.

Here I am in my element.  I take the Greenman to be a reference to the
mythical figure in english literature, most famously represented in the
ancient Arthurian legend "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" An alliterative
epic poem written somewhere around 1400 in Middle English, this story is an
excellent example of some of the earliest fiction we have to come out of

In this story a mysterious knight clad all in green and with green skin
appears at Arthur's court in Camelot and begins raising a ruckus.  He
issues a challenge to those present, offering any knight the chance to
strike one blow at him, undefended, and in return, after receiving that
blow, he will deal one himself with his great axe.  Gawain accepts the
challange.  The Green Knight "bends down" and Gawain cuts his head off.
However, this does not get rid of our friend the Green Knight, who promptly
picks up his head and tells Gawain he must come to the Green Knight's abode
one year hence to receive his return blow.

The majority of the story deals with Gawain's adventures traveling to the
castle of the Green Knight, including among others, being tempted by the
Green Knight's wife.  In the end, Gawain is face with the choice of
fighting for his life or accepting the attack which will surely kill him.
He chooses to sacrifice himself for his honor and in return the Green
Knight spares him, giving him only a little nick instead of cutting his
head off.

How does the Greenman song relate?  In most interpretations, the theme of
the story is the interplay of christian and pagan forces in the ancient
society.  It is a symbolic story about the transistion from a primarily
pagan culture to a christian one.  The color green has been traditionaly
been asscociated with nature, obviously, and the Green Knight shows his
association with paganism through this color, which gives him his power,
and other element (holly plants, etc.)  Gawain is an ambiguous character
who comes from the chistian court, but carries a pentacle on his shield, a
pagan symbol, which gives him magical protection (contrast with St. George
who carries a red cross on his shield for protection). In the end, it is
generaly felt that Gawains choice to submit peacefully to his fate
symbolizes the victory of the christian viewpoint over the pagan.  However,
this is a simplification of course, the relationship between the two
paradigms is very complex in this and other early texts such as Beowulf.

Andy Partridge is clearly drawing on this imagry ("see the Greenman blow
his kiss from high church walls, and unknowing church will amplify his
call") He seems to be reaffirming the pagan paradigm, kind of a "Sir
Gawain" in reverse.

Interested?  The essential text is the translation of "Sir Gawain" by E.V.
Gordon and J.R.R. Tolkien (yes, that J.R.R. Tolkien :)

Burning with Optimisms Flame


Message-Id: <v02140b00b36773ce58b1@[]>
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:55:09 -0500
From: (Yazbek)
Subject: Myths and Hymns

Hello Everyone,

Anyone who likes AV1 or for that matter music should check out the album by
Adam Guettel "Myths and Hymns".  He's been getting lots of sweetheart press
from the NY Times recently and for good reason.  His '97 musical "Floyd
Collins" was the only worthwhile musical theatre in the past five years and
the score is sublime.  He's got the goods and deserves to be heard.  He
just did a sold-out promotional show at Town Hall in NYC which showcased
what a gift he is to the hungry ears of those who need real music.
Alright, so he's a friend of mine, but I don't usually plug friends.  His
talent is so huge it overcomes my jealousy.  Buy the album!  Also-- Yazbek
(the whole six-piecer) will be playing our usual
Last-Thursday-of-the-Month-at-9 show at Baby Jupiter in NYC.  That's thur.
May 27 at 9.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:05:57 -0400
From: Harrison Sherwood <>
Organization: Averstar, Inc.
Subject: Ha!

No connection between the Shaggs and XTC, you say?

Try this on for size, Mister Frowny Relevance Cop!

1999 RCA Victor Reissue of "Philosophy of the World" produced by Irwin
Chusid --> Chusid also produced "Reckless Nights and Turkish Twilights,"
the Raymond Scott compilation --> Andy Partridge is on the Advisory Board
of the Raymond Scott Archives (

See? XTC and The Shaggs are just practically, like, the Archies and Josie
and the Pussycats! Boom Dada Boom!

I contacted Chusid during the "Crocodile/Snake Charmer Song/Little Egypt"
thing we had about a year ago, had a nice little email chat with him. If
I'd known he was also a Shaggs buff I'd've asked him for an introduction to
Dorothy Wiggin, who's a total hottie.

Harrison "Dibs on Valerie!" Sherwood


Message-Id: <>
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:08:05 -0700
From: Queenie <>
Subject: Any Bruce Cockburn fans out there?

It's endlessly amusing to me when my daughter watches Nickelodeon every day
and I hear  Bruce Cockburn singing the theme song to one of the cartoons.
Hee hee!


Message-Id: <>
From: "J & J Greaves" <>
Subject: Me too
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 13:15:47 -0700

Mitch Friedman lists 12 songs for the upcoming AV2 including, "You and the
Clouds", "We're All Light", "Playground", "Church Of Women", "The Wheel and
the Maypole" and three CM songs, and then ends with the apologetic:

>That's it I'm afraid


I can't wait!

Michael Versaci

I'd second this, and also I'm hoping that "Gangway Electric Guitar Coming
Through" somehow makes it on as the opening track! Keep gently pushing this
one to Andy, Mitch!!

Ian C. , thanks for the chance to hear some demoes on RA from your site.
Check it out folks, if you haven't heard Rip Van Reuben, The Man Who
Murdered Love, Gangway...,etc.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:13:15 -0400
From: gene <>
Subject: Stuff it in my mouth? Please to bend down!

With cries of list ennui growing, I'm pleased to present a post about
some recent music of xtc.

> From: Peter Mellow
> I am really stumped with Greenman? Could some people give me their idea
> of who he is? As I want to play it at my wedding in 6 weeks time. God,
> Nature? Who the fek is the Greenman?????

Perhaps I'm diving head first into the big muddy pool of
song-analysis-bullshit, but it sure is fun to wade around. Come on in
everybody, the mud feels nice! (don't foget to hold your nose)

So here goes--
The Greenman, I believe, is a representation of the speaker/narrator of
the song (note I did not say Andy Partridge, for that would be
speculative attribution.... :-)  ).

"Lay your head, lay your head, lay your head, lay your head on the
Lay your head, lay your head with mine"

He is the Greenman, the man who feels a love so great and eternal not
only as lover/husband and father but for humanity as a whole, a love as
powerful and as profound as that of the most mystical deity. In this
case the music and lyrical imagery suggest a Near Eastern/South Asian
sensibility, but no specific culture need apply. It's a testament to
love in all senses of the word, and, for Partridge, an interesting
association of religious faith to inward emotion.
(*bleggh* just read what I wrote, and it sounds like I'm writing a
bloody college term paper again, don't it?)

Green is the color of envy, the color of nature as well. With envy comes
implicit a feeling of desire. The word "Greenman" evokes a desire that
is at the heart of nature, transcending mortality. It also has a nice
ritualistic ring to it, a sense that is amplified by the mantra-like
repetitive ending.

"See the Greenman blow his kiss from high church wall
An unknowing church will amplify his call"

This bit confuses me a little. The church is unknowing, perhaps, because
it is unaware that the Greenman is not a god, but a man with love is so
great that it seems to have the weight of religious scripture. Or

Anyhoo, Greenman seems a fine choice for music at your wedding, Peter, a
great ode to eternal love!!!  And God (or Greenman) bless you for
getting hitched at 19. I've got five years on you and the idea is still
pretty scary.

By the way, Greenman is consistently the stand-out track that grabs
people's attention when I play AV1, especially to the xtc uninitiated.
That and Easter Theatre are my favorites as well.

Re: Tim Kendrick's Northeast U.S. chalkhills gathering, maybe we could
arrange an Apple Venus Vol. 2 release party, if we can wait the ten-plus
months. (god let's hope it's not that long)



Message-Id: <>
From: "Michael Davies" <>
Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 16:23:39 -0500
Subject: The Fall

> Reign Of Blows - The Fall (do they still exist?)

Yes, they exist.  They have a new album this year called "The
Marshall Suite" which has gotten even less publicity than their
other recent albums.  I only found out about it through an accident,
and I've read no reviews of it or even seen it in a catalogue.  Various
labels have also been putting out live albums and collections of
completely random songs both released and unreleased at a rate of
about six per year since 1996.  The band consists of completely
different members from the band two years ago (except for
keyboardist/girlfried Julia Nagle), which consisted of completely
different members from the somewhat stable, or at least
understandable, 1993-era (when they last had some success) band, but
the name The Fall still applies to a currently active band featuring
the vocal talents of Mark E. Smith.

"You don't see people suing the Ebola virus and taking away its
Heisman trophy!"
Michael davies
np: Bailter Space


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