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Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-19


          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 19

                Thursday, 19 November 1998

Today's Topics:

                       O & L So-So
                     Re: mickey louts
                  al phil, all the time
                    Oranges and Foxes
               Top Ten Wanking Songs (huh?)
                     Last O&L Volley
            O&L/Wankers/Collins/Kirk/Andy/Ta's
               Re: Everything past ES crap?
                           O&L
                      sonic divinity
                      Barry Andrews
                         Shorties
                     Re: overproduced
                       O&L again...
                  Re: Mayor of Simpleton
                       yet more O&L
                      O&L AGAIN????
                  Take My Piss. Please.
                Harrison! You wordy mutha!
               Transistor Blast & The Dukes
                TVT Not Secure--Resolution
              Re: Transistor Blast from TVT?

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981118163425.006a3fcc@mail.halcyon.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:41:49 -0800
From: "Lynn S." <nemaliand@halcyon.com>
Subject: O & L So-So

I haven't posted in a long time, but all this excitement about new books and
releases has got my attention again.

I want to add that O & L is my second to least favorite record behind The
Big Express.  I don't even have BE on CD, I don't listen to it.  I tried to
like it, but it just never got me, though I like 'This World Over'.  O & L
has some fine songs on it, but I didn't like the production either, way too
cheezy.  My mate and I winced a little when we first heard it.  But it's
grown on me some.  Maybe this is a common thread among Skylarking fans?

Thanks to Paul C. for posting the Andy interview, I found it very
interesting.

Still an admiring fan, sometimes I wonder what's wrong with me, why do I
listen to this one band over and over and over again?  But then I remember
the doctor's report.

Lynn S.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <v01540b02b2792ee0e511@[139.80.100.159]>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:16:40 +1300
From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan)
Subject: Re: mickey louts

>1-"Chambers would be a bit of a yob on the quiet" (p113)
>2-"you didn't know whether I was taking the piss or not" (p127)

A 'yob' is a lout and a troublemaker... emphasis more on the lout side.
Someone whose idea of a joke might be to wait until a song got to a very
quiet, tender moment, then belch.

To 'take the piss' is to take the mickey, to make fun of in a tongue in
cheek way.

James

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981118225805.006aaff8@mail.interlog.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:58:05 -0500
From: David Oh <davidoh@interlog.com>
Subject: al phil, all the time

here's my 2 cents again (jeez, this is costing me a lotta pennies, i'm up 2
4 cents now!)...

my opinion of phil collins is thus; as a singer, he make a great drummer!

also, wasn't he sued over 'sussudio' by 'the ego currently known as an
unpronouncable symbol'? if he wasn't, he should've been...

do i have a point? only that i thought that we were s'posed to discuss xtc
here, not a bald & whiney ex-drummer who became a singer with an ego the
size of england, as well as 4 foot nothings whoremoanz with egos the size
of america. c'mon people, let's keep on topic!

xtc is the band, xtc is the music. let's d stay on the correct subject...

thanx

the person sumtimes known as stick

 \            \     _
  \  /\ \  /|  \   / \ |_|
/__\/ _\ \/ |/__\  \_/ | |

------------------------------

Message-Id: <36539D06.21221F3C@bowdoin.edu>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:22:36 -0500
From: Ben Gott/Loquacious Music <bgott@bowdoin.edu>
Organization: Loquacious Music
Subject: Oranges and Foxes

Chalkies,

Such nastiness! I, for one, am a big fan of this "overproduction," which
seems to be defined as "too many instruments competing for a coveted place
in my brain." And, although we've had this discussion before, I think that
"Cynical Days," "Poor Skeleton Steps Out," and "One of the Millions" are
damn fine songs.  I think that Paul Fox does as good a job as someone who's
been re-mixing stuff can do...And he did a very good job, in my opinion, on
The Sugarcubes' "Stick Around for Joy," and Phish's "Hoist." Steve
Lillywhite remains, in my mind, the world's best producer...He brings an
energy to songs that I find astounding.  Ample evidence of this is available
on Morrissey's "My Early Burglary Years," his recent collection of singles
and B-sides..."Sunny" and "Swallow on my Neck" are pure gold.

Didn't Phil Collins play drums on Tears for Fears' "The Seeds of Love"? Mmm.
That's a good -- overproduced -- album!

Now playing: 10,000 Maniacs, Unplugged.

-Ben

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
   Benjamin Gott :: Bowdoin College :: Brunswick, Maine 04011
  ICQ 7737594 :: http://listen.to/loquacious :: (207) 721-5513
 Visit my website to buy the new album, "Education in Reverse."
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

From: Iain_Murray@hr-m.b-m.defence.gov.au
Message-Id: <4A2566C1.001C9280.00@newmta.hr-m.b-m.defence.gov.au>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:25:00 +1000
Subject: Top Ten Wanking Songs (huh?)

A few quick ones :

 From Chalkhills #5-16 : Sebastian Maury stated that "The Disappointed" was
XTC's first Top 10 single in Australia, and wanted to be proven wrong -
okay. Unfortunately, the sad fact is that XTC have never had a Top 10
single in Australia (the greater record-buying public of this fine country
had no trouble elevating "Achy Breaky Heart" and most of Bryan "Throat
Infection On Two Legs" Adams' catalogue to the upper reaches of the charts,
however) - the closest they got was in 1982, when "Senses Working Overtime"
got as far as #12 before stalling. I think I'm right in saying, however,
that "English Settlement" got to the Top 5 on the Album Chart (help me out
here, ~p@ul....).

 From Chalkhills #5-18 : Peter Wright brought back the fading memory of
Arnold Wanker from "Happy Days". I have similar recollections, albeit more
recently, of Peggy Bundy (from "Married With Children") having relatives in
a place called Wanker County (which is where Phil Collins was born, I
think....). Chances are the British are more, dare I say, conservative in
their broadcasting than Australia - I heard someone referred to as a
"dickhead" on the 6:00 news last week.

Speaking of Phil Collins - the Australian Navy has been having some trouble
with its Collins Class submarines. I've heard it mentioned that these
vessels were named after the afore-mentioned spew-inducer : both are
shithouse, but inexplicably popular.

Iain

"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people" - Mr.Garrison (spitting
image of our Prime Minister....and you never see them in the same room
together).

------------------------------

From: Joel Reamer <reamerj@stu.beloit.edu>
Message-Id: <199811190435.WAA50636@stu.beloit.edu>
Subject: Last O&L Volley
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:35:42 -0600 (CST)

 Chalkfolk.

   Regarding O & L:

    When all the vitriol has finished being  spewed from both sides of this
 debate, one thing will remain true: "Miniature Sun" will never, ever, be
 played on "MOR" radio, whatever anyone's feelings are about it being a
"sellout" record.
    Anyone got that Minders CD yet?

                                         Joel.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19981119045046.3776.qmail@hotmail.com>
From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@hotmail.com>
Subject: O&L/Wankers/Collins/Kirk/Andy/Ta's
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:50:45 PST

Dear Chalk-U-Likes

Re: The Great O&L Debate / Wankers / Peelip Collins (some strange
synergy there...)

1. I'm astounded ... there are actually people who *don't* like Oranges
& Lemons???? Inconceivable!! I must admit I hadn't really thought about
the "sheeny" production aspect, other than presuming it was part of the
whole quasi-psychedelic tone of the album ... like having a great
psychedelic record with GOOD production, instead of we usually got from
that era, with everything compressed to within a semi-tone of its life.
Hmmmm. Now THIS may be heresy, but I personally feel that it was the
first album after English Settlement that manages to achieve the sort of
atmosphere and energy they had around the Black Sea/E.S. period. I love
all the albums in between, but they are somehow ... quieter. O&L is
definitely one of my XTC Top 5 ...

2. Re: "wanker" and the trans-Atlantic slanguage gap: I remember being
mightily amused when I first disovered "Married With Children", where
Peg Bundy's maiden name was Peggy Wanker. We howled with laughter - the
American audience was silent. Wanker is largely meaningless in the U.S.
unless you know British or Australian humour. It's a very venerable term
here in the Antipodes, having a charmingly propulsive quality, when
spoken aloud, that only our wide brown accent can impart. Especially
effective when chanted loudly by large groups of intoxicated young
cricket hoons.

3. As for Mr Collins ... well as an actor he's a great drummer, but as a
drummer he's a f***ing GREAT drummer. (I'm with you, James). Call me an
old hippy, I don't care. Now I'm *not* partial to that smarmy solo
stuff. But I acknowledge that he's a talented guy, and millions of
people think he's way cool. Go figure. So he made millions? Good luck to
him! And he's a bit of a prat? Name me someone famous that isn't. (Short
list, huh?) He is a wonderful drummer, a great singer, and that's how I
think of him. He was good in Genesis when they were good, but when I
hear his solo songs, I mostly change the channel ... although I still
think Face Value was quite a good album. Totally lost interest after
that though ...

4. I heartily concur with Markus about the Shatner record. I challenge
anyone to listen to his version of "Lucy In The Sky" without needing
Inconti-pants. Howlingly, devastatingly funny. I first heard it here in
Sydney when a local station ran an "Indefensible Song Competition"
(things like "Psycho", "Wives and Lovers" - you get the drift). I have
still never heard anything quite like it. A remarkable document of a man
being a TOTAL wanker.

5. Very interesting to hear Andy speaking at length in Paul's interviews
during Andrew Lambkin's extra-cuddly XTC special here in Sydney. My
trouble-and-strife observed how Andy was (almost compulsively?) punning
and playing little word-games while he spoke. "Can't help himself can
he?" says she; "Comes with the territory I suppose" says I.

6. Last bits - thanks a bunch to Andrew L. for very kindly
hand-delivering my shiny new copy of "Song Stories" (what I won off the
wireless) to my 'umble 'ovel. And congrats to Lord Iain of Canberra on
his recent betrothal!

I'm on holdays for a coupla weeks, lazing about on Fraser Island,
listening to XTC all day and reading Song Stories. (Sounds awful doesn't
it?) Now don't say anything funny or clever while I'm gone, OK?

Yours vacationally
Duncan

------------------------------

Message-ID: <3653B529.299A@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:05:29 -0800
From: Rich/MetalMan <cbunnell@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Everything past ES crap?

>This could explain the many people rushing to defend Oranges and
>Lemons.  I could go through the album song by song explaining exactly
>why it sucks, ("step out step out step out step oouuuut" ..aaarghh!),

   Yeah, IMHO Oranges & Lemons is pretty patchy (but not nearly so as
Nonsuch), but I can't resist the cluttered up collages of songs like
Garden Of Earthly Delights and King For A Day, added to great slower
songs like Chalkhills & Children.

>and I've heard the demos so I can't blame Mr. Fox, but instead I'll
>freely express my opinion that Skylarking sucks almost as bad. Big
>Express too.

   Am I the only person on this newsgroup that feels that The Big
Express is one of the best albums crafted by mortal man? It's a great
combination of the early jerky XTC and the later poppy XTC. The singles
and album tracks are pretty much ALL great off of it.
   I also think Skylarking is great, but I can see why you and other
people wouldn't like it -- too much of a "sameness" from song to song.
Doesn't stop -ME- from liking it, however.

>I mean really: listen to English Roundabout next to Grass,

   Grass wins. Sorry, personal opinion.

>or Optimism's
>Flames next to Poor Skeleton or whatever.

   Optimism's Flames does win, yes, but that's mainly because you pitted
one of the best tracks on Black Sea to one of the worst tracks on
Oranges & Lemons.

>Not that a lot of effort
>didn't go into the later songs which are interesting and full of ideas,
>but there is an effortlessness to the magic of the songs of that earlier
>period that does not fail to knock me out even after 15 years. (My first
>XTC record was Go2 of all things: Now there's an ugly duckling with only
>a tiny inkling of the swan to come.)

   I still have yet to get both of the first two albums. From clips I've
heard, they sound fun, and nothing more -- which is precisely the reason
I want them.

>None of this will prevent me from buying Apple Venus; I'm sure it will
>have some great music on it.  But I don't expect it to spend much time
>on my turntable. Hope I'm wrong.

   Well, note that while all of the releases you've bashed were written
and made in only 2-3 years from the last album. XTC have had 7 years to
create and perfect Apple Venus (both volumes), and considering that both
Andy and Colin have been at work on them, this album's gonna be pretty
friggin' good.

*----------------------------------------------
Rich Bunnell or "Metal Man," whichever sounds more insane
http://members.xoom.com/taoster/
*----------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19981119061825.8351.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:18:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Langr <jlangr@yahoo.com>
Subject: O&L

> Oh right, Spike (Elvis Costello) was put out
> that year (that month even) and it was clearly
> more musically/lyrically intricate and original
> than this one.

Spike bored me so much that I sold the CD, which
I've done with about 1/5 of a percent of all my
CDs.

Regarding O&L, I don't listen to it much anymore
but I enjoy it far more than Nonsensesuch.  And
as far as being a "sellout", I don't think Mr.
Partridge knows what a sellout is, based on his
comments in Song Stories about how he couldn't
figure that "Merely A Man" was a good choice for
a single.  I personally believe that O&L would
have become a major US hit had they released that
song as the followup single instead of "King for
a Day" (zzz) (or was it "the Loving"?).

Jeff L.

------------------------------

From: nedrise@MNSi.Net
Message-ID: <36530232.CB33A72@mnsi.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:22:52 -0400
Subject: sonic divinity

Dear Chalkolate Bars:

Now I know this Oranges and Lemons thing is going on and on, but please mark
me down as a venerating, supplicating, kowtowing worshipper of this record's
sonic divinity.  It is not a double album full of filler.  Nearly every song
is outstanding and memorable.  Yes it's busy and it's noisy, but that fits
in so well with general up-ness of the songs.  I'll take Paul Fox's
'commercial' sound long before Todd Rundgren's compression and tinny-ness
that really hobbles Skylarking.

I'm really surprised so many of you rate The Big Express so low.  That
really is a great record too.  But let's save that debate for another day.

Now, now Dom, I bet you'd start slagging Colin and Andy too if they started
selling of millions of records, wouldnt ya?

I really like some of the things Phil Collins has done.  I'll even go as far
as to say that I think Selling By The Pound is just about one of the best
records ever made.  Certainly the pinnacle of the 'prog rock' genre.  Such a
stunning musical journey...and Phil is the glue that held all that grandiose
goo together.

And he did some jazzy stuff with Brand X, and then a whole slew of radio
ready stuff. Some of that was pretty darn good too.  So ya don't like it,
ok.  I never cared much for Jimi Hendrix either, but he was a pretty fair
guirarist.

I'm not too concerned about the man and his wankishness, though.  Please
rant on all you want about that.

Just gimme the music.

Michael Stone
Windsor,Ontario

------------------------------

Message-ID: <3653BBAA.EE13EB38@zoommusic.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:33:17 -0600
From: Kyle melancon <babyloco@zoommusic.com>
Subject: Barry Andrews

Hello all...This is my first post to chalkhills so be gentle!  I've read
other posts and some of them seem very serious indeed...So here's what I
think:  Dave has left the band which, methinks, presents XTC with the
oppurtunity to hook up with Barry Andrews again.  Just in time for the
20th anniversery of his departure no less!!!  I am a huge fan of Go 2,
especially the keyboard work....Truly the Keith Moon of rock keyboard,
or as an ex-girlfriend of mine once said; "It sounds like he doesn't
even know how to play!".  Excactly!!!  Thus the brilliance!!  While i'm
here, I may as well put in MY 2 cents about O & L...It was my first Xtc
purchase and I must say that time has not dimmed it's greatness.
Simpleton is the JAM and Chalkhills is gorgeous...Can't wait for
Transistor Blast & Apple Venus!  One last thing:  Is "Brahms and Liszt"
British slang for being EXTREMELY drunk?  Just curios!

Kyle

------------------------------

Message-Id: <199811191022.KAA08280@uks447>
Date: 19 Nov 98 10:19:19 +0000
From: "CTSWEENE.UK.ORACLE.COM" <CTSWEENE@UK.oracle.com>
Subject: Shorties

James - actually, I think Collins is an ok drummer too.  But I was on a
venomous roll and thought I may as well insult absolutely everything about
him, rather than just the 99% of him I normally lay into.  I'm bad, me.

Scary digest entry later on, though - Whaddya mean Collins is available?  If
XTC let Collins lose on one of their albums I won't buy it.  As far as I'm
concerned, it would be a transgression of everything I respect them for
although, having read Mr Farmer's book, I respect them considerably less
than I used to anyway.  But that is. not. the. point.

Knotty problem.  Should respect for the artist have anything to do with you
buying their product?  Does the fact that Julian Cope stands for most things
I believe in make me like his stuff more?  Does the fact that Collins'
politics make me retch mean that I dislike his music unjustifiably.
Actually, no to the latter, I was wincing at his lyrics long before I knew
much about him.  I don't even know if it worries me.  Actually, it does a
bit.  It's always bothered me that I find Gary Numan vaguely amusing, yet I
know that buying his stuff puts money into the bank account of a Tory.  Am I
too principled.  Am I cutting myself off from good art?  Heavy metal has a
reputation for being non-female oriented and even plain sexist, yet the
reason I have no HM content in my CD case is because it's simply not my cup
of tea musically, rather than because of anything else.  I'd even go so far
as to say I find Lemmy rather funny, and I have been known to sing "Ace of
Spades" in the bath.  I'm now very confused.

I'm also rambling like an arse....

------------------------------

Message-Id: <l03010d02b279d01af4b6@[207.41.148.11]>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:49:53 -0500
From: Duncan Watt <kanuba@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: overproduced

Mr. Smarty-Pants(that would be a 'Merken ex-pression) wrote:

>Pee Esther: Would somebody please go out on a limb and *define* the
>apparently canonical phrase "Oranges and Lemons is overproduced"? I have a
>sneaking suspicion everybody means something different by it.

Overproduced means there's a terribly thin line between Love and Hate. And
Pop Eats Itself.

There is no such thing as overproduced.

Your Pal Duncan

Poly-Esther: I was going to write: "You people would critic-size the way
Jesus dressed during the Second Coming." or something half-witty like that,
but then I decided it would be better Not To, as I'm Not A Christian.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <365415A7.2DEC@bhip.infi.net>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:57:15 -0400
From: Brian <mattone@bhip.infi.net>
Subject: O&L again...

Tschalkgerz!

>I sit here hoping Harrison will jump into the O&L fray --SNIP-- I'm sure
there are plenty of long-time fans who love this album.  I, for one, feel it
soars over the chaff-filled Nonesuch, where songs such as "Omnibus",
"Bungalow", and "Books are Burning" have me reaching for the >> button.<

I don't know about YOUR CD, Steve, but once I've gotten to "Books Are
Burning", I don't need to hit the >> button, 'cause it's the last song
on MY CD. I only need to hit STOP - which I never do. :-)

--
 BRIAN THOMAS MATTHEWS
* Digital & traditional illustration/animation
* Caricaturist-for-hire
* RENDERMAN ~ One-Man Band Ordinaire
SAPRINGER CENTRAL ~ http://www.angelfire.com/fl/sapringer
mailto:mattone@bhip.infi.net

------------------------------

From: Matt_Kaden/CAM/Lotus@lotus.com
Message-ID: <852566C1.00490566.00@mta4.lotus.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:20:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Mayor of Simpleton

Out of order, I will respond to these points Dan. Mayor of Simpleton
is a beautifully crafted song and very catchy. I would even say that I
enjoy it.  At this point I enjoy nearly every song on there.
Beautifully crafted - catchy. Not less catchy than previous records by
the lads; I don't see your point. You know I don't want to really
debate about this in this form.  That's why I didn't go on for
miles. I can see how the tone of my post could be taken wrong, but I
wasn't addressing fellow XTC fans as crawlers but the Masses which may
be fictional but they are a consideration for the industry and target
marketing is a real phenomenon and there is unfortunately an "enormous
homogenous mass robotically buying" not "everything Entertainment
Weekly instructs them to buy" but records only within the framework
presented to them in the various mediums of media in which mediocrity
is king. Not every product can be given the intensive promotion and
distribution that make it impossible for me to escape names like Phil
Collins even. They've got to be selective. This is a consideration for
a producer under the gun expected to make a commercial album. I'm
sorry, Todd is a commercial producer? If that's true he better get a
move on. Anyway, I don't like upsetting people who like XTC so I'm
sorry that you told me off.  No, I am discovering issues with your
distinctions of words... 'Sellout' for instance, thankyou glad you
could make it. Sellout... Well this means a sacrifice of artistic
integrity in order to expand the listening audience (increase record
sales); thus Mr. Stipe's quote is a play on words but not exactly
accurate. I should not have started the post with that but oh well.  I
did feel insulted and deceived when O&L came out, but have since grown
to appreciate its good points. Living in a Haunted Heart should really
have been on it because it's brilliant. What else is brilliant?
Scarecrow, Skeleton, Chalkhills, Miniature, Millions, Antheap, Mayor,
President - I think I'm running out. I don't know, it still sounds
empty and insincere on the whole, but alas commercial, accessible and
extremely catchy. You are right about all of us having our guilty
pleasures (and this record is one of mine on occasion) and we are
entitled to dip into bad taste now and again. O&L condescends to the
listener the way most blockbuster movies do everywhere all the
time. Sometimes this is what people want. Some people like to be
whipped. I can speak for XTC fans since I am the biggest XTC fan
possible. There are many others who share this superlative status with
me here today so you know what I'm talking about, but I am as in tune
to their music as anyone could be. Go on - contradict that and
Skylarking and Nonsvch are also commercial attempts, granted, but they
have more XTC flavor in them - the flavor that I can recognize and say
"Ah there they are!"

Oh right, "since when is it a criticism that a particular record isn't
as good as Elvis Costello's? How many records are?"

USUALLY the XTC records are.
GO GO GO!

XTENDED,

Your rhapsody in chariot,
Heraldo (The Vain)

------------------------------

Message-ID: <001201be13c9$19472600$e6da3ac3@chris>
From: "Chris Clarke" <cclarke@sigta.co.uk>
Subject: yet more O&L
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:29:24 -0000

in response to those who suggested people like O& L
because it was their first XTC. To be honest my first was
English Settlement, an album which, apart from a couple of
tracks, I find rather dry and boring.

O&L would be my second fave (after The Big Express). And as
'too commercial', what kind of selection criterion is that?
Does it matter if the album is made for a wide market or a
select few chosen  ones?

Oh, and as partly mentioned by Harrison Sherwood, (and stop me
if you've heard this one before) but how many XTC albums are
named after words in the previous album. I got as far as Apple
Venus, Nonsuch and O&L before I got bored.

Cheers.
* ---------------------------------------
chris
'in the land of the bland the one-idea man is king'

------------------------------

Message-ID: <9008165AB825D1118A1600A024A166198C1118@chowan.ncxix.hcg.eds.com>
From: "Martin, Alan" <Alan.Martin@ncxix.hcg.eds.com>
Subject: O&L AGAIN????
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:37:38 -0500

Hi Chalkies,

I don't usually get involved in the "debates" that go on here concerning
this or that album being bad or good or "commercial"? or "sell out"?
But, this time I take acceptation concerning the O&L debate.  It's
simple.  If you believe O&L to be trite, or "commercial" or whatever,
then you simply aren't listening to it.  I mean, you are hearing it's
"production" or your hearing it's "commercially" <<is that a word?. BUT,
my friend, your not LISTENING to the album.  Now, before I go any
further, I realize that all of the bickering in the world is not going
to sway opinions.  Those can only change within the person.  So, I am
not trying to change anyone's opinions of O&L.  I am simply saying that
I believe those individuals who LISTEN to an album and allow all of it's
sensibilities to wash over them, realize just how brilliant the sounds
and words they are hearing are.  The emotion of what you are listening
to comes naturally after that.  And I absolutely CRINGE every time
someone throws up that lame crap about, "oh, well, it was the first XTC
album you bought and heard, and that's why you like it so much!".... BS!
I agree that you can invest a certain amount of melancholic feelings
into anything that brings you to something great for the first time.
But, to suggest that I like O&L simply because it was my first album,
and that I have some kind of fondness for it for that reason only is
simply wrong.  I heard Chris De Burgh for the first time when I heard
"Lady In Red", but it is neither my favorite song by him, nor is it on
my favorite album by him.  Besides, I find it rather insulting for a
person to suggest that my musical tastes are that shallow.  Thanks to
Dan for his heartfelt defense of O&L and to Harrison Sherwood for his
showing plainly the brilliance that lies on Nonsuch, another "bashed"
album which is also masterpiece...but that's for another post.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <4.1.19981119082544.0093c5a0@pop-2.iastate.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:47:35 -0600
From: John A Lane <jal@iastate.edu>
Subject: Take My Piss. Please.

Chalkhill chilluns:
Thought I'd offer my random thoughts -- my 2 bus tokens, instead of 2 cents.

Re Phil Collins:  I've been sitting idly by, watching him being batted back
& forth like a badminton birdie (shuttlecock, for you badminton
afficionados).   I'm going to have cast my ballot in the "wanker" category.
As an American, I got my fill of his odious face & voice during the 80s
when Genesis made a "comeback" and then Phil parlayed that into a solo
career and they kept playing "I don't care anymo'...." over & over on the
radio.  His music is what it is -- and the best medium, as I remember, was
background music for beer commercials. Audio wallpaper.   Let's please,
now, move on. This is like discussing Freddie and The Dreamers on the
Beatles newsgroup.

Re *Oranges and Lemons* -- I believe Harrison asked what we're all meaning
when we say it's "overproduced", and I agree, we've all probably got
different ideas of the term/criticism.  For me, it's somewhat abstract to
describe, as I just think that the album has a certain distance or
remoteness that the others don't have.  Take something like "Love on a
Farmboy's wages", and it has a very primitive, homey, raw quality -- and
then place it next to "Merely A Man", and it's like the difference between
listening to a busker and a Broadway musical.  BUT...I like O&L alot now,
though it's taken me 10 years or so for the album to become charming.  I
really bristled when it came out -- right after the 2nd Dukes album, right?
Or am I remembering incorrectly? In any case, I just don't think you can
metaphorically *wrap your arms around* that record, like I could with, say,
"Skylarking".   And in the end, it's just sort of what one would expect
when you drop a very modest and unaffected group (provincial -- and I mean
that in a GOOD way) into a place like Los Angeles.

Re Transistor Blast:  Am I the only one who's a tad disappointed that the
band is coming out with *this* material first, as opposed to the NEW music
that we've all been dying to hear???  I just can't get whipped up by TB
(!), particularly knowing that Andy slags the earlier incarnation of the
band all the time...doesn't exactly make me want to get behind something
that I know the artist disregards.

Lastly,
Someone said:
>One final note: I read Paul's interview with Andy.  I wish Andy had never
>said that he does not care who is listening to his music.  He has a very
>dedicated fan base, and it would be nice to see it acknowledged in some way.

I tend to think AP is of 2 minds:
1) A lot of writers/artists/musicians tend to say stuff like this -- it's a
defense mechanism to prevent them from constantly looking over their
shoulder & worrying about the audience surveying everything.
2) Having said that, I *do* think he cares.  He's pretty easygoing about
the whole 'bootleg' thing, as I've read in interviews, and I surmise that
he likes everyone enjoying his tunes. Why else do it?

Stepping off my soapbox and into the shadows,
John

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19981119144922.26330.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:49:22 -0800 (PST)
From: nross <phoenixyellowrose@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Harrison! You wordy mutha!

This may be blasphemous, and seeing as I've not yet read THE book
(bad fan, bad) I may be missing some vital information, but, do you
really think Andy is THAT clever. My GOD! Your analysis of That
Wave is something out of my college English classes (not British-speak).
Of course, it all makes sense, and you are probably right that this
song is not only a happy little sex song, but involves that man's
whole philosophy on life and on his whatnot and everything that goes
with it. I just can't imagine he consciously brought all those ideas
into the creation of the song.

About Wanker.  I am so sickeningly American. I KNOW full-well what
a wanker is. I know what Sod-off refers to. I didn't know fanny meant
(to be entirely crude) bush.  What's the big deal. A wanker is a happy
love toy. let us move on!

------------------------------

From: martin.clinton@dnb.no
Message-Id: <199811190928.BAA03855@sgi.sgi.com>
Subject: Transistor Blast & The Dukes
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:27:51 +0100

Hi everyone,

Just a bit of general rambling here.......

Having had the Transistor Blast box set for 3 days now, I thought I'd say to
anyone not sure whether to get it (though I'd imagine that doesn't apply to
too many people on this list!), that it IS worth it. HMV & Virgin in central
London are selling it for 19.99 GBP, which for a 4 CD box set is top banana
value by anyone's standards.

Some of the tracks I (and probably you), already have, but the turbo-charged
version of 'Life begins at the Hop' is just one of the stand out tracks.
Some (such as the version of 'This World Over') are virtually
indistinguishable from the album versions...but the majority are different,
and sometimes, as stated, are an improvement. The live stuff I haven't
listened to too much so far...but then I've never been a big fan of live
albums.

Also, while in HMV, I got a CD of 'Chips from the Chocolate Fireball', the
Dukes of Stratosphear 'anthology'. Since I have the 2 albums only on vinyl
(all vinyl that, to my shame, I rarely play these days), I got it ,and
transferred it to Minidisc, and have been travelling to work for the last
couple of days to the sounds of '25 O'clock' and others. Now maybe I'm just
getting a bit too cold turkey for new XTC stuff, but listening to this stuff
now, it sounds good! Despite all the backwards seagulls and other mucking
about, the apparent lack of pressure this stuff was created under seems to
come through, and everyone seems to be having a good time. Now I'm sure a
lot of people will think I've gone off my trolley, but I like it! A track
like 'Pale & Precious' is probably one of the best tracks XTC never
recorded...er...if you see what I mean.

Well, that's enough of my drivel,

All the best

Martin

------------------------------

Message-Id: <s653f21e.093@wpo.it.luc.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:22:24 -0600
From: "Jerry Kaelin" <JKAELIN@wpo.it.luc.edu>
Subject: TVT Not Secure--Resolution

DonSueP wrote about his problems ordering Transitor Blast from
TVT..."insecure transmission."  I too did not want my Mastercard
number heading out into nearly infinite cyberspace.  So I called TVT's
800# and the guy told me to fill out everything on their order form
except my number and send that info.  After a few minute wait for them
to receive the transmission, I was told to call them again to give
them my credit card number by phone....I am anxiously and excitedly
awaiting shipment!

------------------------------

Message-Id: <v04011701b279d40b8262@[209.86.87.131]>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:00:20 -0500
From: Curtiss Hammock <curtiss@desertisle.com>
Subject: Re: Transistor Blast from TVT?

I ordered the set from TVT, and while I can't swear to it, this is what I
think happened: after you've finished the secure part of the transaction,
you move to a non-secure page. I've seen this before, and it usually
happens *after* you've submitted your card number. I don't think it's
anything to worry about. It's the page where you submit the number than
needs to be secure.

Give it another try and see if this is the case.

At any rate, I've got mine on order. :-)

Curtiss

DonSueP wrote:

> But when I
> hit 'Submit' I got a warning I'd never seen before saying, if I am
> remembering correctly, "This transmission, while originally being
> described as secure is no longer a secure document and the information
> could be viewed by a third party while in transit."  At which point I
> cancelled the order.  But I still want it!
>
> Any clues?

 Curtiss R. Hammock II                    Atlanta, GA, USA
 Online Portfolio       http://www.desertisle.com/curtiss/
 The Cavedogs          http://www.desertisle.com/cavedogs/
 Funk Pop A Roll   http://www.desertisle.com/funkpoparoll/

------------------------------

End of Chalkhills Digest #5-19
******************************

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