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Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-154


         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 154

                  Tuesday, 30 March 1999

Today's Topics:

                       Sgt. Pepper
                      the end of AV1
                     About John Peel
                     gregsy bulletin
                    rook and bubblegum
                 Everything is Beep Beep
                        Re: Words
                       Tokyo movies
                     XTC nailpolish?
                  Krakatoan Balloons (?)
         AVv1 in "Newsweek" -- 4 stars (out of 5)
                     cruelty to Molly
                    Pepper NOT Pepper
                   andy the unibomber?
         Censorship: the topic that wouldn't die
                  AV1 Warning / St. Who?
                    Speak for yourself
                       I Buried Col
                          Drums
                      E-card andsuch

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While you're yawning, nothing's said.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <4782AD6ADDBDD2119B570008C75DD5C1BB45@MGMTM02>
From: Lawson Dominic <LawsonD@parliament.uk>
Subject: Sgt. Pepper
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:21:01 +0100

Firstly, I'm sure you're all gagging to hear what my Sgt Pepper was. Just
to be annoying, I've got three. Sorry.

(i) Cardiacs - A Little Man & A House & The Whole World Window

Completely opened my eyes to what pop music is actually capable of doing.
I'd been a pop fan for a long time, but had never heard anything this good,
or with this breadth of musical vision. Ooh, sounds like the sort of thing
a real journalist would say! How heart-warming.

(ii) Napalm Death - Scum

Completely opened my eyes to how fantastic NOISE can be. As musical as
anything else, but played at such ferocious speed that it transcends the
usual notions of melody, rhythm etc and enters the wonderful world of sonic
violence (as they call it in Metal magazines... apparently).  Incredibly
short songs are always a good idea as well.

(iii) Talk Talk - Laughing Stock

Easily the most beautiful thing I've ever heard. Parts of "Laughing Stock"
have reduced me to tears, and I ain't the weepin' kind, brothers'n'sisters!
(This is a lie - I am a big girly cry-baby, just don't tell anybody!).
Opened my one good ear to loads of things, from Can & Robert Wyatt through
to snooty jazz noodlings and so-called ambient music. An absolute treasure.

And yes, Sgt Pepper is vastly over-rated. Everyone knows that Revolver,
Abbey Road & The Beatles/White Album are miles better. So there.

>>I find "Fear of Music"and "Remain In Light" by you know who to be
absolutely delicious playedloud with no lights on. It's a religious
experience!

It certainly is. Especially when "Memories Can't Wait" kicks off. Magic!
Don't forget "More Songs About Buildings & Food" though. "The Big Country"
does funny things to me.....

>>I just wanted to add that working out to my kickboxing tape (not Tae
Bo)and listening to CD four of Transistor Blast works quite well!

Kickboxing XTC fans? Does anyone else find this hard to picture?

>>I don't want to be the bad person in this.
Oh you're not. Don't be daft.

>>I just wastrying to point out that you can use other words than swear words.

Yes, and you were right. You just chose my pet subject in the week when I
was trying to quit smoking. Bad timing, I suspect! (Incidentally, seven
days have passed and I'm doing OK. Killed a couple of tramps who looked at
me funny, but hey! I'm only human)...

>>I might be the only person here who thinks that, and that makes me abad
person. So I'll shut up and I know people will pick on me again likethey do
all the time.

Of course you're not a bad person. In fact, you're rather too good-natured
to mix with the likes of me, but that is the so-called rich tapestry that
is life. And no one's picking on you, just the notion that swearing is
"unacceptable". As I said, that's a huge can of worms and one which I
regularly open, much to the dismay of my drinking companions who would much
rather talk about football than linguistics, being normal and not immensely
tedious like myself. The phrase "shut the **** up Dom" is usually employed
in such situations. Feel free, dear Molly, feel free...

Cheers!

Dom ****ing Lawson.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:26:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Misty Shock <mccrtny@u.washington.edu>
Subject: the end of AV1
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.10.9903290922280.14222-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>

<<6. I really love Harvest Festival.  That line "And what a year when the
exams and crops all failed" is brilliant.  It is a lovely, cheerful,
nostalgaic song and it seems to be celebrating life in all it's glory. The
girl he fancied as a child now makes him feel great because she's getting
married to someone else.  I love that.  It makes me very happy and, and as
the best music is often joyous, it's probably my favourite song on the
album.>>

Ditto in saying that I love this song too!  Anybody else think that this
would have been a much better way to end the album?  From the ominous
start of ROO to, as the person above said, the celebratory feel of
"Harvest Festival"... would've rounded it out very nicely.  Who knows
where "The Last Balloon" could go if not at the end, however.

Misty Shock
mccrtny@u.washington.edu

"No round of drinks can extinguish this feeling of love and engulfing
bliss."						--Andy Partridge

------------------------------

Message-ID: <900822C71730D2118D8C00805F65765C4E365D@EINSTEIN>
From: Jill Oleson <oleson@moneystar.com>
Subject: About John Peel
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:38:44 -0600

The recent releases of XTC's "Transistor Blast" and
Be Bop Deluxe's "Tramcar to Tomorrow" had me wanting
to learn more about John Peel and his long-standing show
with the BBC's Radio 1.  Listening to a compilation tape that
Dom Lawson made for me of performances by 28 bands from
"The Peel Sessions" (thanks Dom!) gave me the impetus I
need to finally do that web search.

To learn more about John Peel and "The Peel Sessions," see:
http://cgi.bbc.co.uk/radio1/peel/index.html

Enjoy!

Jill Oleson
Austin, Texas

------------------------------

From: RSMko@webtv.net (R. Stevie Moore)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 19:49:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: gregsy bulletin
Message-ID: <14141-36FECE34-2753@mailtod-251.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

Dave Gregory in close trans-atlantic
communication with RSM.....plans to
collaborate on a 1973 rsm tune called
"Dates"....DG basic track<<RSM vocal
& post-prod, overdubs...........

Regards,
R.Stevie Remoulds

*******************************
RSM websites @ www.rsteviemoore.com
   www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2857/

------------------------------

Message-ID: <36FFDAE7.E419E5A0@gge.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:56:31 -0800
From: Dan Duncan <dan@gge.com>
Subject: rook and bubblegum

Karl wrote:
>Katy Coope: "Rook" is pretty much taken from the nursery rhyme
>"Who Killed Cock Robin". Not to spoil things, but it's a tossup
>between the Sparrow (bow and arrow) and Goosey (Uzzi). At Cock
>Robin's service, the Rook with his book did the eulogy, if I'm
>on the beam, so the song has Cock Robin asking all those
>questions of life's meaning to basically a bird of the cloth.
>What's the real story behind the poem, does anyone here know?

i don't know the origins of this poem (nursery rhyme?) but i know its an
american traditional (probably via britain) hillbilly song. check your
"harry smith's anthology of american folk music" booklet to find out
more about it (i would check for you, but i'm at work). there is also a
more listenable version of the song on the new lost city ramblers vol
ii: "out standing in their field" cd, called "who killed poor robin?"
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001DI2/qid=922735428/sr=1-5/002-6274171-1501215)

however, i doubt that the xtc song "rook" has anything to do with that
poem. on reviewing the lyrics in chalkhills' archives i think the song
is just andy musing on the wisdom of a ubiquitous, high-flying animal
with a smug countenance.

i spent a little time this weekend searching for bubblegum pop. i
thought that rhino would have surely put out a set of comps of solely
pre-fab, high-fructose corny, early 70s chintz by now, but they weren't
in evidence at the virgin megastore. does anyone know if such a comp
exists?

my sgt pepper (besides the stack of beatles albums i inherited as a wee
lad) was an album called "this is boston, not l.a." a compilation
featuring some the hardest, fastest u.s. hardcore ever put to vinyl. i
was about 13 and it horrified and fascinated me at the same time (same
effect as the white album).

today's picks:
favorite av1 song: river of orchids
favorite xtc song: great fire
favorite song: making love ukulele style by arthur godfrey
post-coital smoking in the dark song of the week: knights in shining
karma

------------------------------

Message-Id: <s6ff70b9.058@tcwgroup.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:22:44 -0800
From: "Dane Pereslete" <peresd@tcwgroup.com>
Subject: Everything is Beep Beep

Nicole replied:

>If the traffic effects your mood that much, maybe you should move out
>of Southern California. Road rage = BAD.  Push your car from the road,
>dude!

It only affects my mood on those rainy days when people mistakenly assume
that high speed and slick streets mix well...then snarl traffic for
everyone else when they have an unscheduled meeting with the concrete
center divider, or some other poor souls fender, etc...us Angelenos have a
lot to learn, I suppose.  Otherwise I am generally a mellow guy, honest!

>By the way... feeling your car is a necessity
>is not the same thing as "I like my car".

right...I stand humbly corrected!

>I feel
>completely free... and can listen to XTC or Metallica or Siouxsie
>or, for Godssakes... Britney Spears if I feel like it... though I can't
>blast it.

That is probably the main reason I will refuse to give up my commute!
At least I get to "blast it"...;-) Ahh, lovely hearing damage...

David Seddon mentioned:

>Lots of songs
>get chopped for single release (or indeed get made longer for 12"format).
>GM is just over 6 mins.  Respectable Street got a lyric change when it was
>7"ed, Towers of London is 5.24 on BS, yet the single was 4.38 ( I haven't
>played the 2 through to check this, but that's what my sleeve info
>says..

And, didn't SWOT have its bridge truncated for single release as well?...

Throwing more Sgt. Pepper into the paprikash, it is interesting that Tull
has been so frequently mentioned here, as my first album purchase was
indeed "Songs From the Wood".  It inspired me enough to part with my
blessed lawn mowing money and brought me into appreciation of Rock and Pop.
That album, Weather Report's "Heavy Weather" and 1978's eponymous "Pat
Metheny Group" did more to change my outlook on music than anything
previous...It's a crime XTC wasn't discovered here in the States until
later, things may have been quite different...

My eldest brother was one of the lucky few to have seen XTC live at the
first of the sold-out shows at the Whiskey here in L.A...He actually went
to see the supposed main act Wazmo Nariz, and everyone was so impressed by
the up- start Brits that the show quickly evolved into "Wazmo who?".
Almost everyone there quickly gravitated to the front to see who was
producing that delicious noise.  My brother claims that the boys were
wearing "mouse ears" from their Disneyland visit...and, Andy, seeing the
positive crowd response quipped, "This is America?!?!"...can anyone verify?

Those were the days,
Dane

*-------------------------------------------------------
Logging in from beautiful Glendale, CA  USA
"...Everything is beep beep"
daneperes@aol.com  -or-  bramage64@aol.com

------------------------------

Message-Id: <s6ff7299.079@tcwgroup.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:30:43 -0800
From: "Dane Pereslete" <peresd@tcwgroup.com>
Subject: Re: Words

Aaron sayeth:

>.>What are the words andy sings at the start of 'snowman' (y'know just
>>before 'it isn't even winter but...')
>
>A doom a llama deep a llama do me, Yama; do me, Yama.
>Damana deep a llama do me, Yama.  Do we?
>
>>and do they mean anything?
>
>Surprisingly, yes.  They refer to an old Hindu ritual that involved burying
>a pack animal (usually a llama, but a camel or donkey would suffice in
>times of famine) up to its neck in the sand to ward off sinister spirits.
>The more evil you were trying to ward off, the more animals you had to
>stick in the sand - in other words, a "llama deep" for every "doom" you
>faced.

and so on....

My sides ache!!!

All I can invoke to you is the image of Graham Chapman, re-
splendent in his best Seargent-Major costume and moustache
saying "Stop that! stop that!!"

Dane

*-------------------------------------------------------
Logging in from beautiful Glendale, CA  USA
"...Everything is beep beep"
daneperes@aol.com  -or-  bramage64@aol.com

------------------------------

Message-Id: <v04010503b3259a565d6e@interlink.or.jp>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 06:36:35 +0900
From: nishimatu <n_sphere@interlink.or.jp>
Subject: Tokyo movies

Here's QuickTime movies of the HMV Shibuya in-store event (9th March/Tokyo
Japan).

http://www.hmv.co.jp/s_event/xtc/index.html
http://www.hmv.co.jp/s_event/xtc/xtc01.html
http://www.hmv.co.jp/s_event/xtc/xtc02.html
http://www.hmv.co.jp/s_event/xtc/xtc03.html
http://www.hmv.co.jp/s_event/xtc/xtc04.html

------------------------------

Date: 29 Mar 1999 13:39:20 -0800
From: "Henson, Mary Beth" <Mary.Beth.Henson@disney.com>
Subject: XTC nailpolish?

Alright, I can't even tell you how silly I feel posting this information.
But since we've had pages written about XTC soda, I feel compelled to tell
you all that there is now an XTC nailpolish.

I found myself in Nordstrom this weekend with a shopping fool of a friend
who loves all things girlie.  The makeup counters can not be ignored when
Shae is around.  So we were poking around at the MAC counter and I saw a
nice cafe latte-type nailpolish color that I picked up to peek at.  It was
called X.T.C.

Coincidence?  I think not.  It's obviously an intricate scheme on the part
of TVT to implant subliminal messages in the minds of women who seem to be
a minority in XTC-dom.

Either that or it's the girl-goddess reminding me that REAL girls grow,
file, manicure, shape, de-cuticle, massage, moisturize, strengthen and
paint their nails instead of trimming them once a week and ignoring them
for the rest of the time.

Do you think it's worth all the trouble to grow nails just so I can wear
XTC nailpolish?  I think I'll just listen to Greenman one more time
instead...

MB

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990329222317.13171.qmail@hotmail.com>
From: "Kristen Reed" <kreed31@hotmail.com>
Subject: Krakatoan Balloons (?)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:23:17 PST

Hey 'hillers!

I recall seeing a reference to Krakatoa a few weeks ago...why was
Krakatoa initially brought up?  I'm curious as to whether it had to do
with _The Twenty-One Balloons_ by William Pene duBois?  I immediately
thought of the book (which I read in 4th grade - 20 years ago - eek!)
when I heard "The Last Balloon", believe it or not.  Talk about a blast
from the past (no pun intended)!  And the story is set (mostly) on
Krakatoa.  So that's why I wanted to find out why Krakatoa was brought
up in the first place.

And how, you ask, do the resident families escape the explosion of
Krakatoa?  On balloons, of course!

Just wondering...
Kristen

------------------------------

From: STakesh@aol.com
Message-ID: <476a6781.370006a0@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:02:56 EST
Subject: AVv1 in "Newsweek" -- 4 stars (out of 5)

Hi, everyone,

Well, it was a very small write-up, but very positive:

"'What would you like?' chant the cheerful background
voices.  How about a buoyant, beautiful album that
kowtows to artsy pretensions without losing sight of
pop pleasures?  Here it is."  -- Karen Schoemer
[four stars out of five]  [photo of LP cover included, with the
feather point on the left.]

Blur's "13" got 3 stars and was reviewed by same.

Personally, I knew the album would be good when I heard
the whipcrack in "I'd Like That".  More Dukes-era mickey
mousing from the pranksters!

Cheers,
Stephanie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:26:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Benjamin Lukoff <blukoff@alvord.com>
Subject: cruelty to Molly
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990329152405.14318A-100000@locutus.alvord.com>

On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Molly wrote:

> Okay, I'm going to change the subject so people stop picking on me about
> the language thing.  You know I don't really being picked on.  Some of
> you are too cruel, but this is all I'm going to say on this subject.

Molly, I don't think anybody's been picking on your, nor have they been
being cruel.

> Thanks for making me feel better after being a butt of people's comments.
>  Man, I can't say anything without being ridiculed.  I was just voicing
> my opinion like everybody else.

You were doing more than that, Molly, though -- you were telling people
not to discuss or say certain things on the list, which you've done
before.  That's what annoys people, I think.

Ben

------------------------------

Message-ID: <36FFCBA8.4D5E6E2D@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 18:51:25 +0000
From: "Neal H. Buck" <nealhbuck@erols.com>
Subject: Pepper NOT Pepper

Hello from Back in the USofA,

I've been back from my sojourn in Londinium for a few days, and the jet
is just about lagged. Many cheers to the Be-lovely Belinda for the
motorcycle tour of the town, and HER Dave for the Indian feast. I am
glad to be back in the great wide open. though. It's funny how
comforting the old routines are after you've spent a week escaping them.

As I've posted before, the Beatles were my first obsession. I saw "Hard
Day's Night" 19 times (in the theatre), and "Help!" 23 times (ditto).
BUT, when it came out (not now) I was very disappointed in "Sgt.
Pepper." It wasn't like their older, pop-pier albums (sound familiar?).
That's when I got into the Monkees: they carried on the Beatles
tradition, and though I knew they were the original "pre-Fab Four," the
music WAS good, no matter WHO played it. Then the Monkees went
"psychedelic" with "DW Washburn" and such, and the Beatles came back
with the "White Album" (more straight forward, even though I wasn't
crazy about the "wierd" stuff), and I was back in the fold. Now, I love
ALL the Beatles albums, though I still don't like the Monkee's later
stuff.

So with that all said, what was my "Sgt. Pepper"? While I have loved all
the XTC albums as soon as they came out, and set a new standard for
others to live up to, they haven't "changed my life." I COULD name
certain songs that made an impression on me, but for albums, I couldn't
name just one. They would be:

Drastic Plastic - Be Bop Deluxe
Sound on Sound - Bill Nelson's Red Noise
Both the brainchildren of Mr. Nelson, it's funny how DP foreshadows
XTC's D&W/BS era, while SoS (which came out after DP) echoes XTC's
WM/Go2 sound. And of course, John Leckie produced them both.

Remain in Light - Talking Heads
Discipline - King Crimson
The Twang Bar King, Fripp/Eno connection is obvious.

I grew up with the pop sound of the Beatles, et al, so their sound
wasn't revolutionary to me, and the stuff that was I didn't like at the
time. The four albums I listed were different from the norm, and opened
me up to a whole new world of sound.

And now a little defense of Bruce Springsteen. I only got into him after
"Born to Run," and am not a BIG fan, but everything I've seen and heard
of his, sounds genuine. Just like the Beatles, it's not his fault that
his music got overplayed. I've never heard him pander to audiences like
some other performers, and he takes risks with non-commercial albums
(like some other blokes we know). I respect him.

About XTC and the Simpsons:
Although basically a good idea, y'all are missing a big opportunity -
"Futurama!" I just saw the premier episode and it is hilarious! PLUS, it
ties in with Andy's love of sci-fi. Can you imagine the severed heads of
XTC (in jars - see the show!) being carried off to an arena, with Andy's
head screaming, "NO! I keep telling you I don't want to tour!" And
replying to an interview, Colin says,"We didn't break up, we were on
strike for a thousand years!" Maybe they'll be promoting "Apple Venus
Vol. 2,033"

I'm glad someone else brought it up, I know it's heresy, but if it gets
"Greenman" on the radio playlists, I wouldn't mind a fadeout a minute
early. Then someone might buy the album and get the privilege of hearing
"the extra minute!"

Fantasy time: XTC doing a limited number of "performances" with a live
orchestra in a symphony hall setting. No pressure for rock concert-style
entertainment, but a rendition of musical "art."

Thanks for hanging in there,
Neal

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990330014144.18845.rocketmail@web107.yahoomail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:41:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Tyler Hewitt <tahewitt@yahoo.com>
Subject: andy the unibomber?

ok,
in my previous post about the unibomber, it was not my intention to
imply that Andy or anyone else is a technophobe. I was just being a
smartass.

My significant other is a Matematics Phd from University of Michigan
(Ted Kosinski's Math phd is also from U-M). When the Math building was
being remodled a few years ago, there was briefly talk in the department
(not taken too seriously) about naming the new mailroom 'the Ted
Kosinski Memorial Mailroom'. It naver happened-Ted is still alive (so it
couldent be a memorial), and it was deemed to be in poor taste. I always
thought that was a mistake-humor trumps taste almost every time.

Anyways, when someone says something over the top on this list, I laugh
and try not to take it seriously. I recommend the same for everyone
else.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <3700351D.4DF10D0@pobox.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:21:17 -0500
From: Jefferson Ogata <ogata@pobox.com>
Subject: Censorship: the topic that wouldn't die

Can we have some focus, people? Shall we discuss censorship with the same
(lack of) depth with which we so recently considered beauty -- an idea
whose very definition has been for millennia a mystery in the minds of
mankind's most immense minds?

1. Dom wrote a note that some people found below his par of creativity. In
this note, Dom bandied some language about that some found mildly offensive
and off the general tone of the list. To me, the language seemed a device,
and I didn't find the continuous innovation that so often characterizes Dom's
postings.

2. David Oh posted a note drawing attention to Dom's message. Then a few
others did. The original note, let us remember, was meant as humor, so
let's give Dom credit for the good will he was feeling when he tried to
lighten our days a bit. He meant really to cheer us by defending our heroes
with the sort of rabid energy one can only acquire by owning an email
address in the domain parliament.uk.

3. Dom then quit smoking. I cannot stress the importance of this enough.

4. Dom then defended his use of the word "twat", saying his mother would
not find it offensive.

5. Others wrote, mostly in private, to say that, regardless of what his
mother might balk at, they found "twat" offensive, in the way it was used.

6. Dom issued a formal, if strained, apology to the list. He was not
entirely committed to the apology, perhaps because he had had only good
intentions when he wrote the original note, and didn't feel right about
apologizing for the unintended dismay suffered by people whose linguistic
values differ from his own. Nevertheless, he publically disavowed the
intent to wound.

7. Molly wrote to say that she does not advocate censorship, but that she
thinks perhaps contributors should refrain from using strong language, lest
they sanction it for readers who have not attained majority.

8. Now everyone's talking about censorship. A few have made fun of Molly,
and her feelings are hurt, since, after all, she's really here above all
to support the band (Andy Partridge and Colin Moulding, to be specific),
not to pretend at high intellect. Just like Dom, she means well.

!!!!!!!!

I ask you now: what in the F-U-C-K does censorship have to do with
actually happened?

Now let us all support Dom in his struggle to be free from the grip of
nicotine, and move on. I don't mean that we should not be allowed to
write whatever we want, of course, but blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah Ginger blah blah blah blah Ginger blah blah blah.

--
Jefferson Ogata.  smtp: <ogata@pobox.com>  http://www.pobox.com/~ogata/
finger: ogata@pobox.com  ICQ: 19569681  whois: jo317@whois.internic.net

------------------------------

Message-ID: <37004A6C.76CD@telusplanet.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:52:12 -0800
From: Keith Clark <clarkkj@telusplanet.net>
Subject: AV1 Warning / St. Who?

Warning - please take heed: my brother's formerly indestructible stereo
with its unrated Klipsch speakers have succumbed to the wrath of the
Greenman! I made the mistake of cranking it just a little too much and
now I'm in big sh%#!

Regarding the "Sgt. Pepper" theme going on, mine was Ultravox's 'Rage in
Eden". Not quite as good as 'Vienna', but it was the first "ear-opening"
music that came into my collection. As for the Beatles, not one of their
recordings is in my 1,200+ collection; never has been and never will. In
fact, I don't think the Beatles have ever lasted more than 2 seconds on
my car radio either.

XTC Related Snippet
-------------------
While listening to AV1 for the hundredth time and thinking about
someone's post on song collaborators for AP, my brain immediately
shouted "Jules Shear"!

After seeing him play Saturday night for ~two hours, my ears agree
wholeheartedly (now if he would only get a decent haircut!)

Cheers,

Keith

------------------------------

Message-Id: <199903300327.TAA11355@f6.hotmail.com>
From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@hotmail.com>
Subject: Speak for yourself
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:27:39 PST

I'd like to address some of the matters that Molly raised in her post
entitled "Don't make me the bad guy in this, please". I'll preface my
remarks by making two preliminary points:

1. I'm not trying to pick on you, Molly. I'm writing this in a spirit of
amicable argument, not trying to victimise you.

2. I do appreciate that some people find bad language offensive, and
that there are circumstances where it is more appropriate than others.

However I have to take issue with some of the statememts you made in
your post. You began by saying that:

>I don't want to be the bad person in this. I'm not the Tipper Gore
>type person.

Well then, why were you acting like Tipper? We call 'em as we see 'em
kiddo :)

>I don't really care if you swear myself

Ummmm ... sorry Molly but I suspect that you DO care, or you would not
have raised the issue in the first place. That's fine, and if it
*really* bothers you personally, then you should feel free to say so,
and I'm sure the people here will take that into consideration.

>but I was just pointing out there are people on here that might not
>appreciate the language on this.

OK now here is where I really have to take you to task. If you
*personally* have a problem with bad language, that's one thing; BUT I
have a big problem with people who claim to be acting (unilaterally) on
behalf of other people, to supposedly protect their feelings and
sensitivities. To me, that is an essentially cowardly and deceptive act,
especially when it is used as a rationale for attempts to restrict
freedom of expression. It is the classic defensive argument used by the
PMRC other groups who prosecute the 'cause' of censorship - "It's not
for me, it's for the kids" - "I myself don't mind bad language/rude
pictures/whatever, but we have to protect innocent little children from
this filth ..." etc etc

Where do I stand? Simple: The internet is not a democracy, but is is one
of the rare arenas of public life where many competing and divergent
views can be freely aired and easily exchanged between people of very
different backgrounds. For that alone it is invaluable, and must be
protected, and it's one of the features that makes a list like
Chalkhills so invigorating to be part of.

Now, I have no doubt that your position is genuine, and stems from good
motives. I'm sure you're a nice person (and I'm not being sarcacstic).
BUT I find your position, and the arguments you defend it with to be
both deseptive and patronising. It implies/assumes that these undefined
"people", on whose behalf you claim to act, cannot speak for themsleves,
and that you must therefore act to protect them.

But who exactly are these people Molly? Did they ask you to do this for
them? Were you elected by them? Do you come before us as the accredited
representative of a group of frightened, illiterate children who cower
before their PCs, fearful at the arrival of each successive Chalkhills
digest, terrified lest they see the word TWAT on their screens and their
pure, fragile minds be forever sullied?

I think not. Your position ignores the obvious fact that everyone on
this list is at least literate and intelligent enough to have learned
how to operate a computer, negotiate the Internet, find the list and
join it. I submit that they can therefore be assumed to be perfectly
capable of speaking for themsleves. I further submit that the only
person who has actually voiced concerns about bad language is YOU,
Molly. Next witness...

If you were part of those anonymous, huddled masses who feel that the
world becomes a little dirtier every time you see or hear the word FUCK,
I might have a bit more time for your arguement. BUt you're not are you?
You are assuming the role of parent. And let's not forget - it wasn't
that poor innocent kid who bought *that* Prince album - you know, the
one with THAT filthy song on it - who instigated the whole PMRC fiasco.
It was the parent, who assuming a perfect right to control what their
children saw and heard, further assumed that they therefore had a
"god-given" right to protect ALL CHILDREN and so attempted to police
that position by any means possible, including subverting the democratic
process, through lobbying and show trials, in a blatant attempt to
inhibit Americans' constitutional rights to free expression.

>If you need to swear go ahead.  God, I swear myself, I'm not an 80
>year old woman.

I'm surprised at you Molly! That comment is both sexist and ageist. I've
known 80 year old women who swear like troopers. It reveals the
underlying assumption (no doubt programmed into you as it was into me)
that is at the root of your argument - that swearing is "undignified",
"unladylike", "ungentlemanly" etc etc, certainly not something that Nice
(Old) People do ... that it's primarily an activitiy of uncouth (i.e.
lower class) youths, sailors, soldiers etc.

It goes back to my earlier statements about the social and class
assumptions implicit in the use of language; assumptions that lead
people to believe that the pronunciation of the word 'ask' as 'axe' is a
sign of ignorance (instead realising that it is a relic of African
language); assumptions that presume the use of the plural noun "youse"
to be the result of poor education (rather than its being a relic of
ancient English grammar); assumptions that lead people like Hans Eysenk
to conclude that African-Americans are of lower intelligence than
'white' Americans simply because they don't perfom well in standard IQ
tests.

[(thinks) hmmm ... I'll just give these ghetto kids some IQ tests. It
won't matter that they're written in formal white English. Gee, I wonder
why they didn't do well? ... Of course! They must be all be stupid."]

But let's look at the your side for a moment - what are the logical
outcomes if we accept your position, Molly? Shouldn't we also:

- sticker Apple Venus 1 with a Parental Advisory notice because it
contains "adult language"?

- ban "Your Dictionary" from airplay

- censor the record by removing or 'bleeping' the offending track?

- proscute Andy and enjoin him from recording "offensive" material

- instigate an investigation into his lyrics, to detect remove unseemly
imagery which might tend to corrupt the average person?

Ridiculous, you say? Why? Simple - because it reveals the essential
hypocrisy of your argument. You don't seem to have a problem with Andy
Partridge swearing - repeatedly - on the album, and I'm sure you'd be
the first to rush to defend his "freedom of artistic expression". Yet
when Dom swears in this forum, that's offensive, and has to be stopped.
Raise the old double standard high, eh, Molly?

>But I think we should think before we write. Sometimes if we get >angry
we us language we don't normally use.

Most people on this list DO think before they write, Molly, and pretty
impressively. I am not alone in expressing my admiration for the
exceptionally literate, funny, insightful and well-written posts by
people like our esteemed colleague Harrison Sherwood. But sometimes you
just want to dash off a quick note in response to something you see.
Sometimes you want to be silly, or flippant, or even rude. That's the
beauty of the internet - it lets you do all those things, quicly and
easily, and all are equally valid. Why try to restrict us to genre, one
mode of expression?

>I just wanted to point out to all the Chalkers that don't ever put me
>in the same grouping as Tipper Gore or anybody else who wants to
>censor things.

Why not Molly? It sure sounded like you wanted to censor something.

>I just was trying to point out that you can use other words than >swear
words.

We do - all the time. What proportion of words on this are swear words.
The tiniest fraction. But it seems that they stick out like a sore thumb
- to you. (Why?) 'Fess up, Molly - what you were really trying to point
out is that we should NOT use swear words at all (because you don't like
them).

>But hey, I might be the only person here who thinks that, and that
>makes me a bad person.

You may be the only person who thinks that Molly, but it doesn't make
you bad (as much as you seem to want to cast yourself as the martyr in
this discussion). No, it just gives you a differing opinion. And I dare
say that all of us here respect differing opinions - as long as they are
*honestly* held and validly defended. I don't doubt your honesty Molly -
I just accept the defence of your position as being valid, that's all.

>So I'll shut up and I know people will pick on me again like they do
all the time.

No Molly - we're not picking on you. There is a BIG difference between
disagreeing and insulting. (Problem is, not a lot of people seem to know
what it is). This is NOT a personal attack on you. What it is, is an
argument against a 'moral' postition with which I vehemently disagree. I
hope you'll accept it in that spirit.

OK well, that's all I have to say for now. I look forward to the
fire-fight.

Disagreeably
Dunks

------------------------------

From: DinsdaleP@aol.com
Message-ID: <5d05386b.3700456c@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:30:52 EST
Subject: I Buried Col

I know people are probably sick of XTC/Beatles comparisons, but I was
looking through the respective catalogues and it got downright scary.

WHITE MUSIC/PLEASE PLEASE ME
Debut album, basically recorded live in the studio with minimal
overdubs. High energy, youthfully naive compositions culled from years of
composing and playing gigs.

GO2/WITH THE BEATLES
Sophomore effort sees usual non-writing member contribute a song ("My
Weapon"/"Don't Bother Me") intended as humorous, but misunderstood. Artsy
black and white covers adorn both sleeves.

DRUMS AND WIRES/A HARD DAY'S NIGHT
Clanging first chord heralds a new, more ringing and open guitar sound
(Rickenbacker-achieved). Principal songwriters mature and blossom.

BLACK SEA/BEATLES FOR SALE
LP side starting out with an aural trick (crackles on Respectable
Street/fade-in to Eight Days A Week). Big drum sound/big country influence
prevades the production. Touring the world is starting to take its toll.

ENGLISH SETTLEMENT/HELP!
Album containing most commercially successful song (Senses Working
Overtime/Yesterday). US record label cuts English Settlement from 2 LP's to
1.  US record label cuts Help! from 14 songs to 7. John goes through "fat
Elvis" period of depression; we all know what happens to Andy.

MUMMER/RUBBER SOUL
Far-eastern influenced sounds (Beating Of Hearts/Norwegian Wood) and a
strong shift towards acoustic ballads. Mummer Soul?

THE BIG EXPRESS/REVOLVER
Shiny metallic noise (think She Said, Taxman, and And Your Bird Can Sing)
and further studio experimentation - they are starting to create tracks
which would be irreproducible on stage.

SKYLARKING/SGT. PEPPER
"Concept" album with historical British flavour (pagan/vaudeville). Use of
sound effects and overlapping opening tracks. Controversy surrounding "A
Day In The Life" (banned from BBC) and "Dear God".

DUKES OF STRATOSPHEAR/MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR
I am the walrus, you are the mole from the ministry. Compare the Dukes'
clothes to The Beatles' on the cover. MMT started as a maxi-EP, so was 25
O'Clock.

ORANGES AND LEMONS/WHITE ALBUM
So many songs in one collection, but what would you throw out? Esher
acoustic demos = acoustic radio tour.

NONSVCH/ABBEY ROAD
Mr. Mustard, meet Madam Barnum. Rooks, Octopi, and Crocodiles. A
well-polished collection with outstanding vocal performances and a guitar
battle near the album's end. 17 songs on each album.

APPLE VENUS/LET IT BE
Sessions fraught with difficulties. Beatles start at Twickenham, but
abandon it for their own Apple studios. XTC start at Difford's place, but
abandon it for Colin's home studio. Soft-spoken lead guitarist quits near
start of sessions.

I just hope this doesn't mean they are at the break-up stage. Of course
then we'd have albums like ANDY PARTRIDGE/PLASTIC WEXLER BAND, MOULDING
(and MOUDLING II), and THE CONCERT FOR SQUINTY TWO-STRATS to look forward
to.

- John

------------------------------

Message-ID: <001b01be7a61$33f89ca0$a1f694d1@compaq>
From: "Drude" <drude@sprint.ca>
Subject: Drums
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:55:49 -0800

Not really trying to start a new string of letters, but...
I was talking to a friend (not an XTC fan, but a drummer) about great "drum
songs", and I would have to say that a few XTC songs stand out for amazing
drumming/drum sound:

1)Travels In Nihilon
2)Paper and Iron
3)Tissue Tigers
4)Nigel
5)Train Running Low
6)Pumpkinhead

Any other drummers / non-drummers out ther have an opinion?

Do what you will but harm none. (Unless, of course, they ask you...)

Drude

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990330054844.45553.qmail@hotmail.com>
From: "Joseph Revard" <nirvananow@hotmail.com>
Subject: E-card andsuch
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:48:44 PST

Howdy all,
After reading all the posts since AV1 came out I thought that the card
was probably "aimed" at the list itself, didn't Andy say something to
the effect that he didn't really care for 'em (fan lists). And who can
blame him, some people get WAY TO INTO his (and Colins and Daves
and...)personal life. He is after all 'merely a man'.But as Mark S.
stated, it most likely is a hoax, considering how anti-violence their
songs are. I am more interested in what my ears hear on the disc.
Speaking of- any fellow guitar players out there care to share any
knowledge of xTc songs (chords, riffs etc.) I'd love to hear from ya,
been having a hard time in a few spots on AV1. Joseph in Ak

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End of Chalkhills Digest #5-154
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