Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-140

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 140

                 Wednesday, 17 March 1999

Today's Topics:

                 Baltimore Kate in El Lay
                      His story?...
                  Re: The Raging Debate
                        XTC in LA
       Enter Yazbek and he's dressed in ripe fruit
                   2 different CD pics
                     Mythology & Andy
                Coming back to the states
                  Website for CDs in UK?
                  Oh Boy! My first post!
             Dave and Andy one final word...
                       what beauty?
                   andy's toronto visit
                  Dukes Of Stratosphear!
                     re: nag nag nag
                  Another review of AV1
                    Andy's Dictionary
                  Nelson, Uncle Sam, etc
                    Re: Four-eyed fool
               Passion is no ordinary word
                    Here we goh again.
               WHO'S PUSHING THE PEDALS...


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Now every closing door just fans the flames some more.


Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:14:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Misty Shock <>
Subject: Anti-Anti-Andy
Message-ID: <>

To all of you who now hate Andy, didn't you guys already know that Andy
has his dickish qualities (like us all, by the way)?  And doesn't the
music, the most important thing, transcend that anyway?  Besides, his
personality, including the bad parts, contribute to what we all love 'bout
Andy anyway.  That is, his dickishness too is the source of the great
stuff as much as his cuddly, lovable aspects.  Judging Andy now with
reference to Dave is like judging Andy too harshly for his comments
regarding Marianne in "Your Dictionary."  Geez, name a great artist who
isn't a dick most of the time.

And, as I said previously, Colin seems to corroborate most of Andy's
comments anyway.

I did think that Andy came off kind of badly in the Mojo interview as

And Eb, geez, we all know you think the list is silly, but what's the
point in ridiculing everybody, except that you too wish to exhibit your
dickish qualities.  Which isn't to say that I can't understand your point
at times...

Misty Shock
"No round of drinks can extinguish this feeling of love and engulfing
bliss."						--Andy Partridge


Message-ID: <>
From: "Miller, Ed" <>
Subject: Baltimore Kate in El Lay
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:57:07 -0600

Hi, all...

I got a chuckle out of this snippet from Chalkhills #5-138.

>This is the poster formerly known as The Baltimore Kate! I recently
>moved to L.A.--which turned out to be a really great thing March

I'm not surprised.  I moved to Los Angeles in 1977 and I had a great
time for ONE DAY as well.  I hope it works out better for you than it
did for me.


Ed Miller


Message-Id: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:17:25 -0600
Subject: His story?...
From: "McCausland_Ian" <>

I guess I win "the post that generated some many respones and reduce my
sense of history to a puddle of tears- award"

> <<Isn't Lord Nelson, the fellow with the large moustache seen on the World
> war One posters ordering people to enlist...the basic pose to be ripped
> off in the USA with the Uncle Sam Wants You poster?...>>
> Are you serious?????????
> Admiral Lord Nelson died at Trafalgar in 1805.  Lord Kitchener is the
> buffoon glaring out of the posters.  If you're British I am severely
> displeased by this faux pas.

I'm not I'm Canadian,...<sigh> still no excuse... forgive me one and all...
as for XTC content.... I wanted to throw AV1 on cassette for the car... all
I had was a 60 min... so I had some spare tape on the end of side 2... some
Nonsuch tracks fit oh so well with AV1 in fact I urge everyone to re-listen
to Nonsuch in light of AV! it will sound different and better!

BTW The replica of the Nonsuch rests here in Winnipeg! It sailed from
England to Churchill and was put to rest here in the Museum. There now, I
feel some what redemed on the history tip!...


Message-Id: <>
From: "Mark Strijbos" <>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 01:18:10 +0000
Subject: Re: The Raging Debate

Dear Chalkers,

Mitch (as usual) said it all:

> They're only human you know.

Let's leave it at that, OK?

yours in xtc,

Mark Strijbos at The Little Lighthouse


Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 16:57:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Sean Robison <>
Subject: XTC in LA
Message-id: <>

>From the better-late-than-never files, I'll share my experience from XTC's
appearance in L.A. a few weeks ago:

It was great meeting several other XTC fans that night - heya, Mary Beth
(this is Disney Sean - I can't seem to get the mailing list to work via
Disney... thus the address) - one lady drove up from Tijuana and
another family of fans flew in from Utah.

I think all of us caught the irony that the band was signing at a Virgin

Anyway, it was incredible seeing them sitting there. It's one of those
experiences where your brain refuses to accept that it's real. One pinch
and *POP* you're awake at your desk.

I wore my Chalkhills shirt and upon seeing it, Andy remarked, "Ooh! Nice
choice of wardrobe." He signed my AV1 "booklet" and seemed genuinely
surprised at the publicity photo I gave him to sign - it's the picture of
them that appears in Upsy Daisy. He was curious where I had gotten it from
and kept remarking that it was from Geffen, showing it to Colin several
times. Obviously, Geffen didn't go much out of their way to show the band
any publicity stuff from Upsy Daisy. Now the photo has two treasured
signatures and Andy's sprouted antennae from his head.

Andy is a genuinely funny guy. He referred to the area they were signing
(and where we could take pictures with them) as the "Sacred Photographic
Pit of Agamemmnon" (yes, I know I butchered the spelling). Colin's much
quieter... almost shy. Though, once I had my photo with them, I shook his
hand and thanked him and he quietly said "Take care" and "Cheers".

So now I have the special memories from the event and a little shrine at my
desk of the signed CD and photo.

"It doesn't get any better than this..."

Sean Robison


Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:03:49 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <>
From: Bob Estus <>
Subject: Enter Yazbek and he's dressed in ripe fruit


Andy Miller stage right:
>"British film The Full Monty is being turned into a stage musical in the US.
>The adaptation of the hit film about male strippers in Sheffield is gearing
>up for its debut at the Old Globe in San Diego next January.
>Established playwright Terence McNally is writing the adaptation, and
>newcomer David Yazbeck the music."

Season ticket holder here, will give review. (Of note, Yazbek formerly
involved in music for the stage at Brown U.)

I for one am looking forward to the beauty of Sheffield rendered in stage
scenery. :^) The Old Globe in San Diego launches a successful Broadway-bound
play now and then so this *could* smell of success. The audience here is an
older fairly conservative lot so the subject matter may still hold some
shock value, we'll see.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:42:24 -0500
From: Tim Kendrick <>
Subject: 2 different CD pics

Hi Everyone!

  > I just thought I'd point out that each format of "Apple Venus Vol. 1"
  > features a different picture of Andy and Colin.  One must collect the
  > set to get all the pictures.

Also, I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet (?)
but the CD picture is different on the Cooking Vinyl release
from the TVT release.  Not the cover, but the actual CD itself.

The CD from TVT is bright red with a light green heart-shaped
apple.  The CD from Cooking Vinyl is a hazy version of
the center part of the peacock feather.

On a side note, my British boyfriend has informed me that a
"strawberry fool" is an actual dessert in the UK
(basically strawberries and cream mixed together).
I think that's pretty clever of Colin!

   Tim K.


Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:44:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Veronica Kyle Robertson <>
Subject: Mythology & Andy

  I know fairly recently several people mentioned the issue of Uncut
that included a CD with River of Orchids, a review of AV1 and a short
interview w/ Andy about his "consuming passions".  I didn't notice
anyone mention one of these passions as Barbara Walker's book Women's
Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets.
  Andy stated that he found this book years ago at a girlfriend's
house, picked it up and loved it. He said that he has even been
tempted to write Walker a fan letter, he loves it so much.
  Well, naturally I was curious.  I found a hardbound copy of it at my
local Borders bookstore for about $17.00. It is quite a chunk of a
book, so that's a good deal.  I've been browsing through it for the
past few days and I can see why he liked it.  I know that many other
people wouldn't like it though, because Walker really tries to knock
down Christian religious beliefs.  She provides copious examples of
various legends and myths that sound eerily similar to biblical
writings, yet are often much older.  I personally find it healthy to
read things that challenge my beliefs.  What I really like about the
book, though, is that all of the entries are written from a woman's
perspective without coming off as man-hating rants.  She shows how
some stories and symbols have evolved over the centuries.  All of it's
really fascinating.  I would recommend all those interested in the
recent discussions of the mythological tidbits in XTC lyrics read this
one-- buy it or see if your library has it.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:04:52 EST
Subject: Coming back to the states

  I heard the boys will be on The World Cafe on APR (Amer. Public Radio) in
the "next few weeks" & since this show is recorded in Philly ,They'll
probably do an appearance somewhere in town.YEAH BOOOYYYY!!!!
    In reply to Don P.'s response to Molly:  Three words--- HA HA HA!!!!
Man was that funny. I'm biting my keyboard not typing anything else. I'm
like,um, too old for that?
   I originally thought Andy was singing " And its vinyl siding now" in  "
I Cant Own Her". I think that one wins.
   Awaiting Their arrival,  Roger


Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:18:33 -0500
From: Paul Badger <>
Subject: Website for CDs in UK?
Message-ID: <>

Hi All

I'd just like to ask our UK members if they know of a good online website
to buy UK-released versions of CDs? I'm looking for a comprehensive site,
like a UK equivalent of Amazon in the US. HMV isn't very good - for
example, it only has 2 XTC CDs to sell (Transistor Blast and Apple Venus).

Thanks in advance,

Paul, UK


Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:18:34 EST
Subject: Oh Boy! My first post!

Hello,New to the "Chalkworld"(For about a month now.As a matter of new to
this whole internet world!) but not to the music of the Swindon Lads!(Been
a fan since '82)

Now,Well,Well,Well.What shall I discuss in my First post?

Well,I guess the obvious!

"Settlement" was the first album I purchased and "Senses" was the song that
stuck out in my mind.

Favorite Album(or should I say if for some odd reason I had to get rid of
my collection and could only keep one album):MUMMER(The "original" album
version,and not the "extended" CD version)

I know during this time Mr.Partridge was going threw some emotional
difficulties,and to me the album seems to be of someone trying to convince
themselves to "GO ON".

Now onto more modern things:

Favorite songs:
FRIVOLOUS TONIGHT(I know someone had mention something similar ,but F.T.,and
LIFE BEGINS AT THE HOP make great "Bookend" songs!,and speaking of "life":
Does anyone else out there think that the version on "Transistor" simple
kicks ass?)




Songs I could do without:



THE LAST BALLOON(It's a fine song and all.It just to me seems to fall into
the "Obligatory meaningful last song Category" I would like to see more
FUNK POP A ROLL type songs.Which I guess in itself falls into the

The title of the next Album:

Well since we know it's going to be  APPLE VENUS 2  I think a little
meaningful fun should be applied to the cover artwork.Maybe something with a
"sealife" Theme featuring "opened clams"?

and as far as the album after that:

I think Andy,and Colin,and who knows maybe Dave should do a complete 360! A
traditional Guitar driven "POP" Album!

And the name:
HIP! - HUR! - RAY!

Well that's it.
How did I do?

Take care


Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:18:07 EST
Subject: Dave and Andy one final word...

I've been reading the postings for a while now and didn't feel as if I had
anything to really say until today.

The obvious parallel for the split and bitterness between Dave and Andy
(and Andy venting his feelings about Dave) is a divorce. The two clearly
had a number of skeletons in the closet that they kept locked up so that
they might continue to work together.

Now that they no longer are working together they don't feel the need to
keep this hidden any longer. Both seem to be working through their anger
and sense of betrayal(at least on Andy's part) through venting.

So, just let them vent and try not to read anything too sinister about the
process they are working through. The give and take that is necessary in
any band isn't much different from a marriage (well, except for the sex!)
and this marriage is clearly over. Andy is doing his version of "Your
Dictionary" as is Dave (although he is being a bit quieter about it) to
purge whatever anger they feel towards each other.

This is an oversimplification of a complex, at times trying relationship
between the two. The best thing to do is ignore what's happening and let
the music speak for itself. No one's honor needs to be defended as they are
quite capable of taking care of themselves.

Wayne Klein


Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:38:56 +0000
From: Sebastien Maury <>
Subject: what beauty?
Message-Id: <E1149IVI33KF0*/R=A1/R=ABCNET/U=MAURYS6G/@MHS>

I'm a bit behind on digests at the moment (who isn't!), so this may already
have been covered. So sue me.  I find it intriguing that so many people
should be posting remarking on the lack of "beauty" in today's art/music
scene, and in the world in general. Mostly, I would imagine these sorts of
musings would be related to coming into contact with an object of
undeniable beauty fairly recently (yes, AV). Yet AV is not pure beauty. It
would be impossible to ignore the traces of acid-tongued frustration,
aching melancholy and suffocating nostalgia that infuse certain songs and
parts of songs, just as would overlooking the exuberance of new life and
love (refer for exquisite prose and fascinating ideas to Mr Sherwood's
"Apple/Venus" post) lead to an unbalanced view of what is for me
unquestionably the finest XTC album of all.

My point about beauty is this: I consider myself generally happy,
moderately successful, not too many money problems, all fairly middle of
the road (I'm 27).  Yet for someone who is perhaps younger (or older) and
who lacks all or any of these things (for example), there's not necessarily
a lot to be happy, grateful, or polite about. Taking Australia as an
example, we are saddled with a right-wing government led by a boring
arch-conservative stuck in a rut somewhere around 1951. Corporate Australia
rules the administration's decision making processes (as everywhere), youth
suicide is perhaps the highest in the Western world (at least in the top 3
according to statistics vaguely remembered), no-one (myself included) has
any idea what to do about youth unemployment. Yet the economy booms,
despite one of the gravest crises ever experienced in the Asian Pacific
region. Is it any wonder people turn to the "ugly" music so hated by the
old and the conservative. Music and art and culture in general tend to
reflect the world around them and their authors. This is not news to
anyone. But for those who question it, I just suggest looking back to bleak
periods of their own childhood and adolescence, and remembering what it was
that got them through, be it punk/metal/horror novels/art etc. Isn't that
what drugs are for too? To forget about life for a while (thought I'd drop
in a Billy Joel quotation for you all to choke on)?

Having said that, it's easy to forget that the majority (I won't say the
vast majority, because it's been proven that there are heaps of younger
fans on Chalkhills-hi!) of listeners are in their 20s-40s. Not exactly
disaffected youth. In fact at 27, I might be in the younger 50% of XTC
fans, I guess. So given that, and assuming we actually like XTC and the new
album (I know, some don't), it's likely that we share an affection *at
times* for beautiful melodies, gorgeous orchestration, swooning harmonies,
and delectable lyrics, all of which make appearances on AV. But that's not
all we go for is it? Look no further than Dom and his declared musical
tastes. I myself much prefer dark, disturbing and scary flics to something
"beautiful" on the whole. Mood presumably plays a part too.

So I just find it difficult to accept that there should be "more"
beauty-surely we seek out what we need from what there exists, and allow it
to shine in apposition to its darker cousin.

Easter Theatre-my favourite song on AV: distressing "Psycho"-type wrenching
string opening; fairly innocent opening few lines leaving you totally
unprepared for the sonic boom of the chorus. A stunning achievement. But
not all beautiful...

My verbose nature rears its rare and ugly head...


Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:01:28 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <v03007800b314805c1de3@[]>
From: Mitch Friedman <>
Subject: Davenstein

Here I is again,

This time, something positive for once! I got a call from Dave today (I
guess he's stalking me too). All last week he was very busy doing sessions
at Chipping Norton with producer and friend Craig Leon (who is in the
Blondie contingent).  Dave was the sole guitarist along with the rhythm
section from the last Page/Plant tour (both of whom Dave described as
"great geezers" - this is a positive term in England I guess?). The artist,
believe it or not, is a Finnish/Swedish tall, slim, blond beautiful
centerfold model named Linda who is actually a completely amazing
violinist. They were recording cover versions of "Frankenstein" (which is a
track on Dave's Remoulds so he knew all the chord changes already), "In A
Gadda Da Vidda" (which Dave had *never* heard before!!?!?) and some song by
Tony, Toni, Tone'. He said he was having a great time playing some real
rock guitar and laughing it up and just basically having some real fun in
the studio. A Swedish beer company has made something called Linda's Lager
and they are coming down to the studio on Friday to shoot a commercial for
it and Dave will be in it (but this time not playing the violin and
annoying the neighbors on Respectable Street). If you are interested in
seeing this Linda person, Dave says to tune in to this coming Monday's
episode of "Baywatch" (in the US) as she will be the featured guest
star. This is the very sophisticated plot: one of the Baywatch male
lifeguards goes to see a violinist in concert and it turns out to be the
beautiful Linda. Then somehow later on she finds herself drowning and he
saves her and they fall in love. Shocking eh?

Other than that he is not looking forward to when Andy and Colin return
because he is supposed to be meeting with them to discuss how he will
be paid for all his past work from now on.



Message-Id: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:23:44 -0500
From: David Oh <>
Subject: andy's toronto visit

hello fellow chalkurians,

let it be known that the finished transcription of andy's toronto visit has
been sent to john@chalkhills. it is long, even without the part i missed!
but it is, if i do say so myself, a darned-tooting good read! especially
after the recent thread on drummers, it's very interesting to read what
andy's thoughts on the subject are.

he was very funny and looking back on some of his comments, i wonder if
some were intentional or if they were just coincidental... well, some
obviously were intentional, but others aren't so obvious...

such as? well, considered the following;

on Holly up on Poppy now; "she's 13... if she climbed up [on Poppy] now...

on which was his favourite drummer: "i'm sure they all hit the spot..."
and summing up his thoughts on drummers: "it's different strokes"

i hope you have as much fun reading it as i did being there, i certainly
didn't enjoy transcribing it; it was one of the most tedious things i have
ever done!
listen - stop the tape - write - rewind - listen - stop - correct - rewind...
and repeat a million times over! my respect for journalists has risen
greatly after that exercise in frustration!


if anyone is interested in a copy of it, which i did in ms word 97
(windows), email me as to what type of file you'd like; plain text,
formatted word doc, email attached or as a simple email... whatever...

enjoy it...

peace & xtc,



Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:14:10 -0800
Subject: Dukes Of Stratosphear!

Just got the Dukes CD "Chips From The Chocolate Fireball" (anthology).
One of my new favorite CD's.
Always loved The Mole From The Ministry, and thought it was by Klaatu.
The Dukes are brilliant. Hopefully fan interest, can resurrect them.
If any Seattle area XTC tribute bands need a guitarist, give me a call


Message-ID: <>
From: "kristi leigh siegel" <>
Subject: re: nag nag nag
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:12:07 PST

Duncan scribbly:

>>(Webster <> defines "hector" thus:
>>Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): hec.tored; /-t(&-)ri[ng]/
>>Date: 1660
intransitive senses : to play the bully : >>SWAGGER
- hec-tor-ing-ly /-t(&-)ri[ng]-lE/ adverb)

>Anyway, just because Hector and
>Helen were brother and sister doesn't >mean the allusion is faulty -

  > Albert/Victoria - famously lovers, but ... Albert died young (from
>typhoid); Victoria was totally devastated and withdrew from public life
>for over 25 years ...

Thanks Dunc, I believe that concludes this portion of my history lesson
for this week. Am I free to go watch "Springer" now?



Message-Id: <>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:15:27 +0100
From: jan bletz <>
Subject: Another review of AV1

Het Parool, the Amsterdam newspaper, reviewed Apple Venus 1 on March 16.
They gave it 3,5 points out of 5.
The reviewer clearly sympathizes with XTC (the group and the music), but
thinks AV1 is a bit too polished. He compared listening to AV1 to visiting
a museum: you can look, but can't touch. The same argument NRC Handelsblad
had: AV1 is too perfect'. Come to think of it, De Volkskrant (another
Dutch newspaper) objected to Nonsuch when it was released as being
All in all, I think it's not the beauty many reviewers (and perhaps other
listeners as well) don't like about XTC, it's the perfection.
Jan Bletz


Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:23:33 +0000
Subject: Andy's Dictionary

I only joined this list after buying AV1 and I'm bemused by the universal
assumption that Your Dictionary is about Andy's marriage break-up.

My own first reaction on hearing the song was that he was writing about the
band's long-running dispute with Virgin Records and all the small
humiliations that this entailed (like being turned away from some corporate
junket during their seven-year "strike").

Evidence? Well the song does contain the word "Virgin", and the "Now that I
can speak/see/hear" lyric seems to fit the scenario of a guy finally free
after a long period when he wasn't able to express himself.

That's hardly conclusive, but maybe he had both break-ups in mind.

That's all for now ... Brian


Message-ID: <>
From: "kristi leigh siegel" <>
Subject: Nelson, Uncle Sam, etc
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:52:25 PST

"McCausland_Ian"  wrote:
> Isn't Lord Nelson, the fellow with the large moustache seen on the World
> war One posters ordering people to enlist...the basic pose to be ripped
> off in the USA with the Uncle Sam Wants You poster?...

Uncle Sam cartoons appeared as early as 1838. So technically, *he* was the
one emulated. His visage was inspired by a Samuel Wilson, a Massachusetts
meat packer born in 1766.  The single most famous portrait of Uncle Sam is
the "I WANT YOU" Army recruiting poster from World War I. The poster was
painted by James Montgomery Flagg in 1916-1917.

I'm not sure of the Kitchener-British Army poster connection, but he
served as Field Marshal, then later Commander-Of-Chiefs during the
Second Boer War. He served in World War 1 as Secretary Of State For War

Just my 2 cents worth (which doesn't buy much these days)...



Message-ID: <>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:40:33 +0100
From: strangeways <>
Subject: Re: Four-eyed fool

> "Four-eyes" is a common insult in English-speaking countries.
> It's a put-down, a taunt aimed at people who wear glasses.

Ohhh now I get it. Surely makes sense. Well thanks Duncan, and everyone
else who responded!

> However I see from your email address that you may be from the
> Netherlands? In that case maybe that's why you haven't heard it?

Hit it :)

About Dave Gregory... I have only just recently discovered the
brilliance of XTC, so I don't want to pas judgment on his abilities.
However I think it's a pity that he left the band. It's like Laurence
Tolhurst and Porl Thompson leaving the Cure. Nowadays it's still the
Cure, but it ain't 'the old gang' anymore.

R-U-D-E is that how you spell Ruud in your dictionary? :p



Date: Wed, 17 Mar 99 9:47:28 EST
From: Jeff Rosedale <>
Subject: Passion is no ordinary word
Message-ID: <CMM.>

Isn't it funny how a flame war drags you right in, no matter how hard
you wanna stay on the sidelines?

Well, time and Molly and other stuff have mellowed me a bit on being so
&*$#(* angry at Andy for Dave leaving the band.  I was an early poster
of really bitter nasty stuff about Andy because I really feel strongly
that Dave is an incredibly talented and gifted artist.  It was the
combination of Andy's wild melodies, Colin's innovative and adhesive
bass, the great lyrics and vocals from both songwriters, and Dave's
flights of guitar fancy that started the centrifuge drawing me in
to XTC forever.  (And yes, I remain more into Terry Chambers' rhythms
than anyone who has attempted keeping up with them since!)  It's hard
to say who in the band is more brilliant than anyone else- and
debating that misses the point.

XTC has made music that is so above the ordinary that it makes people
feel really passionate.  They are not ordinary musicians individually,
and together they have made popular music that is actually *important*,
not a small accomplishment in this day and age of prefab plastic spoon

No doubt both Andy and Dave share some responsibility for the split.
Anyone who has read about the band themselves and heard from
collaborators knows that Andy is unusually difficult to work with.
Some of the things Andy has implied about Dave's lack of creativity are
squarely at odds with earlier statements to the effect that Dave
provided lots of melodic bridges and connections between Andy's
sometimes disparate musical ideas within a single song.  And the guitar
solo on Church of Women strikes me strangely as if Andy is trying to
imitate Dave's style (except for the end, which is pure Partridge).
Even with recent open wounds, Dave admires Andy's writing and the
finished product of Apple Venus Vol 1.  So if you dig past the
animosity, there are layers of respect somewhere down deeper.
As there should be.

What I really wish is for these brilliant artists to find a way to mend
fences and make extraordinary music together again.  They can certainly
do so separately if they choose to, but that will be a tragic waste of
collaborative talent unlike any in recent memory.  As I wrote on my
TVT postcard, let them exchange DATs and never speak to one another
if need be.

Not that what I want matters, but it makes me feel better to let it
out on the list.

So that's my semi-whiny bring-back-the-past groove.  But it feels good
to let it out.  Guess that's what flame wars are all about.



Message-Id: <4782AD6ADDBDD2119B570008C75DD5C1BA48@MGMTM02>
From: Lawson Dominic <>
Subject: Here we goh again.
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:43:50 -0000

Scroll down folks, it's extreme boredom time...

>>you say what you write is done so in humour. perhaps that is so, but
itdoes not come across as humourous;

Not to you maybe, but to me & numerous other people, it does. Sorry.

>>calling someone a"prized penis" & a "twat" may not be the ultimate insult
to you, & maybeyour mum uses the same language (perhaps that explains a
lot...), but it_is_ insulting &, again, it is completely unnecessary!

Firstly, if my mum used the same language as myself, mentioning her in this
context would have been meaningless. Perhaps I should clarify.....My mother
WHO DOES NOT SWEAR would not be offended by the use of the word "twat"
because my mum (WHO DOES NOT SWEAR) DOES NOT SWEAR. She is in her sixties,
is a devout Christian and DOES NOT SWEAR. Therein lies the significance of
my mentioning her in the first place, i.e. because SHE DOES NOT SWEAR.

Also, you managed to be far more insulting to me than I ever have to anyone
on the list, simply by saying "perhaps that explains a lot..." in relation
to my mother. If you'd said it in person I would have kicked your sorry
arse. And I'm a big girl's blouse.

In addition, you imply that swearing and using abusive language is in some
way evidence of behavioural problems. Go back to school, study the language
like some of us here actually have, and then come back without your feeble
prejudices. Swearing is an essential part of the language, not least as
punctuation for those of us who think quicker than we speak, and especially
for those of us who actually feel passionate about things, rather than those
who prefer to pander to the Niceness Police at every opportunity. To say
that it is "complete unnecessary" is ludicrous. Somehow "oh you're being
slightly foolish - jolly bad show!" doesn't have quite the same impact (or,
indeed, the same humour value). Anyway, anyone who slags AV1 off to that
extent (and with such a lack of judgement) is a twat. I fail to see the

Indicentally, it strikes me as doubly weird that you're offended on behalf
of someone else.....Too much time on your hands perhaps?

>>sorry, dom, but there's just too much vinegar in your posts.

Sorry, Dave, but there's too much paternal sounding advice in your posts,
and frankly I don't need it. Get some perspective, and get the fuck off my

>>justpull in the reigns on the insults, ok?

Very tempting, but on this occasion I will concur. Needless to say, I
totally disagree with your opinion and I think you're being rather
hysterical. If you must insist on considering your own interpretations of
my posts as being gospel, then that's your problem. You are usually wrong,
and despite having had this pointed out on numerous occasions, you still
feel the need to lecture me on etiquette. As you once memorably said, "I
don't care" what you think about my posts. I'd be out on my ear if I
overstepped the mark, as well you know, so let Mr Relph do his job and stop
bleating like an old woman.

Incidentally, I just received my copy of AV1 from the increasingly godlike
Jill Oleson, inscribed "Go Away Stinky Longhair??" and signed by the
m-an(dy partridge) himself. Laugh? Yes, for several hours. Bless you Jill,
and bless you Andy, even if you are (apparently) an egomaniac and lots of
other horrible things. Personally, I couldn't care less. The man makes
fantastic records - his relationships with other people are not really an
issue, unless of course they inspire a few more brilliant songs. I don't
expect my favourite bands to be nice people, any more than I expect
seemingly intelligent people to understand TOTALLY FUCKING OBVIOUS attempts
at humour.  It's enough to drive you b@y.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:01:51 EST

hey to all.

to 'strangeways',:

i am sorry if i embarrassed you.  in response to your enquiry about the
'four-eyed foul' references, and the seemingly constant stream of
philosophic waxing on our intellectual parts by insisting the answer to
your enquiry lies on the end of your nose ( all the replies in vol 5-138).

i apologize.

i too, am a philistine when it comes to simple phrases which always have
the potential of being a bigger, grandiose statement than what they are
alleged to be.

to peter williams, with thanks on your analysis and research of the
greenman connections to church, deity, and the season's cycle.

we should all know that andy again is pushing the pedals on the seasons'
cycle with the greenman; one of his favorite themes and lyrical subjects
for songwriting (my opinion).

yours, in xtc,

john gardner


End of Chalkhills Digest #5-140

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