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Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-138


         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 138

                  Tuesday, 16 March 1999

Today's Topics:

                   Get your Wordsworth
                       nag nag nag
                   I Can See For Miles
         Re: Uncle Nelson Wants You (in the shed)
                   Deconstructing Andy
You say you want a costly track shoe? We-ell, you know ...
                      Four-eyed fool
                          Smile!
                        Launch 23
                       Life is good
                  CD vs. cassette vs. LP
           Yeah, dem's fighting woids alright!
                 Move to CA--find XTC!!!
              In defense of Amanda and Andy
                   The Kitchen(er) Sink
                   Re: sacrilege, etc.
                    Green man & stuff
                      'Ello, Bruce!
            More cultural references explained
                       Dear Dom...
                           NO!!
                        More NO!!!
           Phil's C-H-E-A-P S-H-O-T; AVv1 news
                   Re: your dictionary
                 More misheard AV1 lyrics

Administrivia:

Let's chill on the "Defending Dave" and "Defending Andy" front, alright?

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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

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This civil war, why are we in it?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <v03007806b31367af61d8@[209.242.85.107]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:45:09 -0600
From: John Yuelkenbeck <jy@tomrussell.com>
Subject: Get your Wordsworth

Regarding "the son is dead, the father can be born" line: I took it as a
possible allusion to the famous line in poetry "the child is the father of
man."

I played "River of Orchids" on the jukebox at the bar where I work again
today, and it received a positive response. One armchair critic said it
sounded like "Sting if he were singing in German." Go figure.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990316014312.27363.qmail@hotmail.com>
From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@hotmail.com>
Subject: nag nag nag
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:43:11 PST

Hello Chalkleteers

Nag #1 - Amanda: what makes me think that your well-known partiality for
all things Gregorian is colouring your reactions? I don't really care -
I mean, what else would we expect you to say? So Andy's got an ego? Tell
me something I don't know. How the hell would he have survived the last
23 years without one? As Skyhooks said: "Ego is not a dirty word"

Nag #2 - Could we PLEASE now have an end to this tedious Andy v. Dave
thread. I thought we'd thrashed the life out of that one weeks ago?
Enough already! why don't you give me a paper cut and then pour some
lemon juice on it ...

Nag#3 - Hector & Helen:
I've got to assume that Andy is sufficiently well-read *and* smart
enough to have known that one. I assume he is (as all good songwriters
do) bending the rules to make his point. The other two are famous
couples, and thus fit perfectly into the scheme. To me the Hector/Helen
reference works, if only because it's balancing the other two verses. On
either side he is saying "I'll be your Albert/Nelson", - positive
sentiments - but in the 2nd verse it's expressed in the negative: "I
will *not* hector":

(Webster <http://www.m-w.com> defines "hector" thus:
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): hec.tored; hec.tor.ing /-t(&-)ri[ng]/
Date: 1660
intransitive senses : to play the bully : SWAGGER
transitive senses : to intimidate or harass by bluster or personal
pressure
synonym see BAIT
- hec-tor-ing-ly /-t(&-)ri[ng]-lE/ adverb)

I think it balances out very nicely. Anyway, just because Hector and
Helen were brother and sister doesn't mean the allusion is faulty - they
are both characters in the same myth, even if they were not lovers.
Anyway, it works for me.

The other thing I really like about this song it is the way Andy has
undercut it with his trademark irony. It is (prima facie) a happy,
breezy song about love, romance and togetherness. But think about who he
is using to personify it:

   Albert/Victoria - famously lovers, but ... Albert died young (from
typhoid); Victoria was totally devastated and withdrew from public life
for over 25 years ...

   Hector/Helen - famous lovers, but ...Helen gets abducted, causes a
huge war that lasts ten years and costs countless lives; her lover,
Paris, and his brother Hector are both killed, along with the rest of
their family, their city is burned to the ground, half the population is
killed and the rest are carried off into slavery ...

   Nelson/Hamilton - famous lovers, but ... Emma (Hart) Hamilton was
notorious long before she met Nelson. Have a look at the famous portait
by Le Brun at <http://locutus.ucr.edu/~cathy/ev9.html>. Here's some of
the commentary:

>"This painting was done at the time Emma Hart was openly living
>abroad as a man's mistress. <snip> With a subject who is a publicly
>"damned" woman, Le Brun had little fear of offending her buyer on the
>grounds of "indecency." <snip> Emma Hart was famous for dancing naked
>on a table in front of a number of aristocratic men..."

The Nelson/Hamilton affair was a major scandal in polite society - both
Nelson an Hamilton were married but they lived more or less openly as
husband and wife. How did it end? Nelson, who of course lost an arm and
an eye in battle [a connection to the Odin imagery here?] was killed at
the moment of his greatest victory. After his death, Hamilton's
extravagant lifestyle led to her eventual incarceration in debtor's
prison in 1813, and she died penniless in 1815.

Talk about happy endings...

Yours pedagogically
Dunks

------------------------------

Message-Id: <v03007807b31368cda511@[209.242.85.107]>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:50:07 -0600
From: John Yuelkenbeck <jy@tomrussell.com>
Subject: I Can See For Miles

>>Question. Why does Partridge sing "four-eyed fool" in Your Dictionary?
Is it some kind of english saying that I don't know about? Or could it
be a pun, is he actually saying "for I'd fool you, lead round
everywhere" Just guessing.

Uh, "four-eyes" is a fairly common term for someone who, like Andy, wears
glasses. Gal durn, even har in Missourah we know that one!

------------------------------

Message-ID: <012e01be6f4a$be542080$18f032ca@speedking>
From: "Simon Curtiss" <mduffy@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Uncle Nelson Wants You (in the shed)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:16:57 +1300

Ian McCausland wrote
>Isn't Lord Nelson, the fellow with the large moustache seen on the World
>war One posters ordering people to enlist...the basic pose to be ripped
>off in the USA with the Uncle Sam Wants You poster?...

Im afraid Nelson died rather a long time befoer WWI - I believe that was
Lord Kitchener with the pointy finger, but I could be wrong

Nelson didn't have a moustache either and was also missing (by the time of
his death) one arm and an eye - This might be another clue as to why it
wasn't him doing the pointy finger picture - oops no fingers!

~~Ruud~ wrote
Question. Why does Partridge sing "four-eyed fool" in Your Dictionary?
Is it some kind of english saying that I don't know about?

'Four eyes' is an abusive term applied to anyone wearing glasses in the UK
e.g 'fuck off you four eyed git' - some really good consonants to get you
teeth into there, plus a little alliteration for extra effect!

Simon

p.s. Molly don't stop with the posts, no really   don't... stop...

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:38:25 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <v03007808b313283c7e79@[209.86.135.93]>
From: Mitch Friedman <mitchf@mindspring.com>
Subject: Deconstructing Andy

Hello,

Ok, first of all, hello Amanda!

Yes I agree Andy has said some nasty things, in "public", about Dave
lately. But he hasn't gone out of his way to bring up the subject;
interviewers keep asking him about it. So in reality he'd rather not
discuss it at all but is constantly questioned about it. That in and of
itself might elicit some negative text. But also keep in mind that Dave
must have really done some things to infuriate Andy because other than
saying nasty things about Todd Rundgren shortly after the end of work on
Skylarking, can anyone recall Andy being particularly nasty about anyone or
anything? And yes Andy did many things to anger Dave too. I believe they
both felt a sense of betrayal from the other one preceding and during the
making of Apple Venus.  Oh and that comment of Andy's about how he helped
Dave buy himself a house and a bunch of guitars . . . Dave said the same
thing to me and was actually thankful for it.

I'm friends with them both as well as a very big fan of both of them too.
If it makes any difference at all, I've spoken with Dave on a number of
occassions about the subject and believe me (and Amanda can back this up)
if some of what he has said about Andy was printed you'd be saying some
pretty nasty things about Dave too.  Both men are entitled to their
negative opinions on the other. Dave's just don't get printed as often. I'm
sure he wouldn't be saying things as negative and hurtful as Andy has been
saying but who knows? I've heard some pretty hurtful stuff coming from both
of them. It's certainly not my place to be a mediator but I recently wrote
Andy a letter urging him to speak with Dave very soon and hash this stuff
out between the two of them, no matter how maddening it will be for both
men.  This war of words is doing neither of them any good. I've told Dave
the same thing. We'll see.

They're only human you know.

Mitch

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:47:56 +1000
From: Duncan Kimball <duncan.kimball@tafensw.edu.au>
Subject: You say you want a costly track shoe? We-ell, you know ...
Message-Id: <36EDD46A.45E61C8C@tafensw.edu.au>

Duncan Watt <kanuba@nh.ultranet.com> wrote:

>Use in commercials is completely under the copyright owners' control, so
>feel free to blame the artists on this one. Unless they sold their
>publishing to Michael Jackson or someone.

>As far as motivation is concerned, let's ask Yoko Ono why she sold
>'Revolution' to Nike. It's... do I really have to type it?

erm ... is it not the (well-known) case, namesake-o-mine, that Wacko
Jacko outbid McCartney in order to
A) spite Macca, and
B) get his hands on Northern Songs / Beatles' catalogue?

They can't sell what they don't own, old son. And that  applies equally
to Yoko Ono - "Revolution" belongs to Northern Songs, which belongs to
Michael Jackson. Blame him, not Yoko.

(Actually, I for one have no hesitation in defending her. She is IMHO an
extraordinary and admirable person, determined, strong, highly
intellegent, extremely talented, a loving mother and wife ... she's also
one of the most misunderstood people in the world and the undeserving
target of more ill-informed, misguided, misogynistic, sexist, racist
criticism than almost anyone I can think of. What the fuck do people
have against her, anyway?)

BTW - you seem to have contradicted yourself here Mr D; a few par's
previous, you said:

>Most artists sign away a good portion of their publishing
>rights as part of the record deal, at least with big companies. Once a
>song is published, it's very hard to keep it from being
>'covered'(re-recorded/performed), as long as it's properly credited and
>paid for.

If the artist don't own it, why should we feel free to blame them?
Should we blame The Glimmer Twins that Allan Klein and Polyram sold "You
Can't Always Get What You Want" to MicroSSoft (or whoever it was)?

And in the case of the use of original recordings in advertising - is it
not the case that the actual recording usually belongs to the record
company, and *not* the artist? Therefore, in the case of "Revolution"
shouldn't we be blaming EMI/Apple, as owners of the original recording,
as well as Jackson, as owner of the publishing rights?

(Those points aside, an interesting thread. Thanks for all the info
Duncan. BTW if people want to see just how dirty this game can get, read
Fred Goodman's "The Mansion On The Hill" which details the sneaky tricks
used Albert Grossman, David Geffen, Jon Landau & co. to get their mitts
on the huge bags of royalties from their artists' publishing. Shameful.)

yours splenetically
Dunks

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990316032635.20280.qmail@hotmail.com>
From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@hotmail.com>
Subject: Four-eyed fool
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:26:34 PST

In reference to "strangeways" query about "Four Eyes": I'm sure you've
had the answer already, but:

"Four-eyes" is a common insult in English-speaking countries. It's a
put-down, a taunt aimed at people who wear glasses (hence '4-eyes'). Any
kid who had to wear glasses to school here or in the UK would have had
that one thrown at them at least once. It carries all sorts of
connotations of being stupid, being weak or feeble, etc. Wearing glasses
is also seen to be indicative of being a "swat" - someone who is too
'brainy', who studies too much - this is commonly seen as being a bad
thing, especially in working-class areas (like the school I went to).

I suspect what Andy is trying to evoke is the feeling of being
humiliated, like the taunting a 'four-eyes' would get in the school
playground. Finding out his wife was cheating on him probably revived
all sorts of bad feelings for him; I'm assuming that he had to wear
glasses as school, so that might be a source/memory? The same would
apply to buck-teeth - another common target for school-yard ridicule.

I'm surprised you've not heard this expression before? However I see
from your email address that you may be from the Netherlands? In that
case maybe that's why you haven't heard it? Is there an equivalent term
in Holland?

Dunks

------------------------------

Message-ID: <014301be6f60$fd08aba0$18f032ca@speedking>
From: "Simon Curtiss" <mduffy@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Smile!
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:30:24 +1300

With all the talk of Brian Wilson and someone mentioning _Smiley Smile_ the
other day, I thought y'all might like to know that there is a web site that
contains the nearest approximation to the unreleased _Smile_ album yet
known to mankind, and it's all there in MP3 format.

 There is a wonderful essay about the album and comments on every track.
It's far more than just the pieces released on the new versions of Pet
Sounds, Smiley Smile & other albums.

It sounds wonderful, and while it's never going to be what Brian originally
intended it's a must listen. If you are a fan of Pet sounds then got get
it - at:

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~annew/smile/

Simon

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 20:53:10 -0800 (PST)
From: relph (John Relph)
Message-Id: <9903152053.ZM149997@mando.engr.sgi.com>
Subject: Launch 23

According to the www.launch.com website, "XTC is in the Vault" on Launch
23.  This is the most recent issue of the CD-ROM magazine.  Does anybody
have this issue?  If so, tell us more!

        -- John

------------------------------

Message-ID: <36EDA063.19B5@bhip.infi.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:06:00 +0000
From: Brian <mattone@bhip.infi.net>
Subject: Life is good

Tschalkgerz!

Life us good.

AV1 is out (and how!).

Chalkhills is all abuzz in a good way... I'm finding stuff out about the
album I would never find out anywhere else ("Green Man iconography in
English history"? - who'da thunk?!).

I'm diggin' it... keep it comin'.

--
 BRIAN THOMAS MATTHEWS
* Digital & traditional illustration/animation
* Caricaturist-for-hire
* RENDERMAN ~ One-Man Band Ordinaire
SAPRINGER CENTRAL ~ http://www.angelfire.com/fl/sapringer

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:07:33 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199903160507.VAA55986@mando.engr.sgi.com>
From: John Relph <relph@engr.sgi.com>
Subject: CD vs. cassette vs. LP

Folks,

I just thought I'd point out that each format of "Apple Venus Vol. 1"
features a different picture of Andy and Colin.  One must collect the
set to get all the pictures.

	-- John

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990316054410.17143.qmail@hotmail.com>
From: "Amanda Owens" <daveizgod@hotmail.com>
Subject: Yeah, dem's fighting woids alright!
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:44:08 CST

And a hearty hello to all I've pissed off! Let's get started, shall we?

Molly did sayeth:

>Those are fighting words.

You got that right, sista.

>  This is to those people who bad mouth Andy,
>and I know you have the right to your opinions, but so do I.  Okay, I
>don't really like how people bash Andy.

Well he should'nt dish it out if he can't take it right bak in his face.

>  How would you like it if I said
>something like, "Dave's a real asshole (excuse the language) for leaving
>XTC or he's just a plain asshole and I've lost all respect of him.  How
>would you react?

Well since Andy was looking for a way to fire him anyways, it's kind of
a moot point.

>Well, I myself (if I was a fan of Dave's) be pretty
>hurt.  I would want to defend him as much as possible.

And that is exactly what I'm doing right now.

>I just think Andy's being unfairly badmouthed.  So what his and Dave's
>personalities didn't click, that doesn't mean you have to blame Adny all
>the way.

I don't blame Andy completely, but at least Dave is being tactful about
it. Hell, even on the rare occasions I talk to him, he tries to be as
polite about the whole situation as possible.

>I know I take this a bit more personally than you do,

Molly, I don't think anyone is taking this as personally as I am.

Phil did sayeth:

>"S-T-A-L-K-E-R, is that how you spell Amanda in Dave's dictionary?"

Why you little ;) So you're putting me on the same wavelength as Mark
David Chapman and what'shisface who tried to kill Reagan to impress
Jodie Foster? Naw. I may be a bit zealous, but a stalker I am not. If
the day ever came when the thought of doing ANYTHING harmful to Dave
would enter my mind, I've have myself committed. I know the boundaries
between fantasy and reality, and the reality is that I consider Dave a
friend, not even a good friend, just a friend. Period.

Tis all for now,
Amanda C. Owens
"Tis better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open
it and remove all doubt"-Unknown
XTC song of the day-Fruit Nut
non-XTC song-There She Goes-The La's.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990316062922.3677.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:29:22 -0800 (PST)
From: K D <hentoe_xtc@yahoo.com>
Subject: Move to CA--find XTC!!!

Hello, there!

This is the poster formerly known as The Baltimore Kate! I recently
moved to L.A.--which turned out to be a really great thing March
5th!!! Where to begin...?

how about the night before the big event? let's see--i knew the
anticipation would keep me up all night--so I decided to utilize my
sleeplessness by thinking of a gift to give to them...but, what could
I give? I lack money and couldn't really think of anything to make....
I decided to make for them what I make for ALL my friends: a mix of my
favorite XTC songs! Well, it didn't take me long to realize that they
might not jump for joy at receiving their own music--just in a
different order...! duh. But, I still wanted to give them SOMETHING,
so, I wrote a little thank you note and put it in the tape cover I had
already made and hoped that would suffice....then I tried to get some
shut eye (yeah, right!).

Had a great time in line--met some great people:

Michelle and Daniel: awesome people who came all the way from Arizona
to meet XTC!

Beth: who is super cool for putting up with my hero worship! (well,
she's cool for other reasons, too)

Mary Beth: we had already e-mailed prior to the meeting...it was
really cool to meet in person, though! we are still gonna have that
gathering one day, yes?

Mark Cuevos/Cuevas?: all around great guy--and thanks for taking
Michelle and Daniel to the airport!

Lynn: who I am still fond of even thought she got the poster that I
was too scared to snatch!

and others, though I didn't catch the names....hello to all!

oh, and I bumped into the infamous Mike Keneally in line (I had met
him before at the MD/DC/VA gathering).

so, as you can see--it was a cool crowd and a lot of fun was had by
all in the four hours we spent in line together!

I got to meet them around 9:30pm. It all happened so fast that I
forgot how nervous I was! As I approached Andy he commented on my very
old/loved Drums & Wires shirt, "that's been through the wash a few
times." hee hee...we shook...I handed over the silly gift--told him
that I knew it was silly so it was okay to laugh--at which point he
did, saying, "you win the corniest gift award for the night." What an
honor!!! he put it in the bin with the other gifts....and then,
proceeded to sign my stuff. I kept apologizing for them having to
stand there and be cheerful for hours on end--and thanked them
profusely for the same...then, he shook my hand again and I was off to
meet Colin.  THAT'S when it hit me: I just met Andy Partridge! So, I
got all emotional and nervous after the fact and stood in front of
Colin just a big bundle of nerves on the brink of tears! How
embarrassing! Colin was really cool, too--although I was a tad dazed
during our meeting...then, I went around the counter for my
photos...the boys did some silly poses with me...and then onto the
next adoring fan, Beth.

Afterward, Beth, Michelle, Daniel & I just kinda stood there basking
in the glory of XTC and watching them for a few minutes (boy, are we
nuts!) It was a great experience and I hope one day I can do it all
again! (I only hope AP & CM don't cringe when they see me!)

sorry my story is not as exciting as the others...but, I had to wait
until I was calm enough to translate it all coherently...I think I
waited too long and lost a bit of the afterglow type thing....

I have an amusing XTC related tale to tell of my cat, Crumb.  We just
got a puppy and my cat refused to come out from under my bed for a few
days as a result. I tried everything: treats, baby voices, canned
food...the usual. Nothing worked--until....
Apple Venus!!! yep, two days in a row she came out after the first
coupla notes of Easter Theatre! I thought it was just a
coincidence--until my roommate told me the next day that Crumb
actually ventured across the hall and into her room while she was
listening to Easter Theatre!!! crazy, huh?

well, this has been long! sorry about that! lucky for you I only post
about once a year!

Kate

------------------------------

From: mollyfa@juno.com
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:41:33 -0500
Subject: In defense of Amanda and Andy
Message-ID: <19990316.014144.3390.1.MollyFa@juno.com>

Phil did you really have to say that?  "S-T-A-L-K-E-R spells Amanda in
Dave's dictionary" (or something like that).  That was uncalled for at
least with me.  Yes, I'm a bit upset with her, but that was a bit
overblown.
Okay for those who think Andy's egotistacal would he stay for hours
signing autographs?  I know they were promo tours, but with what people
have said that he was really nice.  I just believe a person who is
egotistacal wouldn't do that.  And if he was one he would probably just
sign the albums and not talk to his fans.  That's my opinion though.
Nobody was holding a gun to his head and saying sit here until you get
all the albums signed.

Molly

------------------------------

Message-ID: <xeyPVBA9Ai72Ewet@neutronstar.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:11:25 +0000
From: chris <chris@neutronstar.demon.co.uk>
Subject: The Kitchen(er) Sink

In message <199903141822.MAA15791@access.mbnet.mb.ca>, McCausland_Ian
<talk@ian.mb.ca> writes
>
>Isn't Lord Nelson, the fellow with the large moustache seen on the World
>war One posters ordering people to enlist...the basic pose to be ripped
>off in the USA with the Uncle Sam Wants You poster?...

No, that would be Lord Kitchener, the Big Guy in charge of thinning out
the lower classes... I mean fighting off the evil German hordes during
WW1.

And Molly, it pains me to see you inviting such potential grief and
hassle on yourself with every post. Please stop! ;-)

(still waiting for payday and AV1).....
--
chris2
(np..soundtrack to Zelda 64)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 01:24:42 -0800 (PST)
From: "J. Brown" <ringostr@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: sacrilege, etc.
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.05.9903160117580.71246-100000@dante37.u.washington.edu>

Eb wrote:
> >As far as motivation is concerned, let's ask Yoko Ono why she sold
> >'Revolution' to Nike. It's... do I really have to type it?
>
> That would be Michael Jackson who sold "Revolution" to Nike, wouldn't it?

Precisely, Nike got permission from Jackson but failed to get permision
from the Beattles to use the beatles recording and the ad was later
pulled.  Yoko did authorize the use of Instant Karma for a later Nike ad
though.

jason, who thinks dave's relationship with amanda is perverted and
narcissitic.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <4B045DC53446D111A6CD00A0C949AB7323BE12@TOBY>
From: Peter Williams <Peter_Williams@portasystems.co.uk>
Subject: Green man & stuff
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:15:01 -0000

Chalksters

My first time so treat me gently...

Green man:
This is my understanding of the Green man, apologies if its not AP & CM's.
(skip first paragraph if in a hurry)
I scoured by book collection for the book I read on the subject of English
folklore but I think it must have been a library book. From what I can
remember the Green Man was a very potent pre-Christian deity or symbol of
fertility. That he pops up in churches in England is no surprise either - it
appears that it wasn't until the 17th century and the religious reformations
that Christianity finally suppressed pre-Christian beliefs. Before this time
pre-Christian beliefs were given a Christian motif and the blessing of the
Church - hands up anyone who thinks that the birth of Christ created the
Christmas festival. I could go on (for years probably) but won't. The only
written mention the Green Man I have in a book ("Maypoles, Martyrs & Mayhem
- 366 days of British myths, customs & eccentricities") is : "1st May...The
king of all the garlanders was and is the Jack-in-the-Green, a man dressed
as a hedge. He represents the greenery - a version of the original Green Man
- and is a symbol of fertility and rebirth to mark the return of summer."
The book then lists two town May day festivals where Jack-in-the-Green does
his stuff. The Green man lives on: The Green Man is a very common name for a
pub (public house) in rural areas - I drunk in a few but can't give you all
an example close to where I live to back up my statement.

An answer for Ian McCauskind (I think):
It was Lord Kitchener who appeared in the British recruitment poster during
the early part of the First World War. I don't know whether you'd meant the
pun Ian, but Nelson only had one arm (and one eye) so the idea of a poster
with him pointing arm out straight towards anyone reading the poster is
oddly funny (I think Nelson lost his right arm, the same one Kitchener uses
in the poster).

One for Ruud:
"Four-eyed fool" - people wearing spectacles/glasses can be gently insulted
by calling them "four-eyes".

To answer the "name a good British beer question" from a week or so ago - I
can't remember who asked the question:
Over the last few years there's been an explosion of bottled beer (4 - 5%
alcohol by volume) made in the UK. I don't know whether any of the
following are available outside the UK or whether they travel well but
here's a list of my faves : Sptifire by the Shepherd Neame brewery - bottle
conditioned and a great taste Old Speckled Hen by the Morland brewery -
named after an old MG Just about anything by the Marstons brewery (I live
in Marstons country) e.g. Pedigree, Oyster Stout, Indian Pale Ale Old Hooky
by the Hook Norton brewery - sharp taste with maximum effect

Pete Williams. Hinckley, Leicestershire

------------------------------

From: CCooli9575@aol.com
Message-ID: <57d86dae.36ee3f80@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:24:48 EST
Subject: 'Ello, Bruce!

>And, just to make you feel a smidge better, I will, at risk of
>seriously undermining my {mature ;-)} reputation on this list, admit that
>I also still own 1 Springsteen album (and I'm mortified to admit that
>it's not even one of the good ones - wait, there were none!)

  If you don't think you like Springsteen you'd probably give grudging
respect to Nebraska if you heard it(basically 4 track demos recorded by
himself in his living room), which I still think is the best thing he ever
did. I have no use for Born In The USA myself. Shallow and over-produced,
IMO.

Chris

------------------------------

From: "Edward Percival" <epercival@meshplc.co.uk>
Subject: More cultural references explained
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:19:38 -0000
Message-ID: <000201be6f9e$e1102480$4e01a8c0@M60443.mesh.internal>

"McCausland_Ian"  wrote
>
> Isn't Lord Nelson, the fellow with the large moustache seen on the World
> war One posters ordering people to enlist...the basic pose to be ripped
> off in the USA with the Uncle Sam Wants You poster?...

No it's Lord Kitchener. Nelson was an admiral- sailed on ships with sails
that sort of stuff- a century or so earlier?

Ruud asked...
> Question. Why does Partridge sing "four-eyed fool" in Your Dictionary?
> Is it some kind of english saying that I don't know about? Or could it
> be a pun, is he actually saying "for I'd fool you, lead round
> everywhere" Just guessing.

It's a term applied to people who wear glasses (or specs or spectacles or
eye glasses or whatever you know them as)
as in 'you four-eyed git'.

Have a nice day y'all.

Ta Ta for now.
(God bless you Mary Poppins)

------------------------------

Message-ID: <36EE44BA.EFD8052D@erols.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 06:47:06 -0500
From: Todd and Jennifer Bernhardt <toddjenn@erols.com>
Subject: Dear Dom...

Hi:

"Our Dom" (as Our Relph calls him) responded to my

> >>The ability to appreciate a good tune doesn't mean
> you're an aging sellout. It just means you're maturing in your
> tastes.

with

> Hmmm....I getcha, Mr B, I getcha....but I hope you're not suggesting that
> listening to, say, Napalm Death constitutes a lack of maturity, taste-wise.

Oops. You're right. I should have said "broadening your musical tastes,"
which IMO is a mark of maturity. But the hard stuff is an essential part of
that.

> Also, what's wrong with Joan Jett?

Not a damn thing. "I Love Rock & Roll" alone qualifies her for membership
in the pantheon of music greats. That, and the way she looks in tight
leather pants...

> Anyway, get up on stage with me and I dare any of you to play any of my
> band's songs. No ****ing chance, buddy. And we're punk as **** (even with my
> haircut). Swear, spit, pogo etc....

You're on. Give me a week or so to get my calluses and Terry Chambers
forearms back, and I'm there.

--Todd

------------------------------

Message-Id: <199903161301.NAA18048@uksn82>
Date: 16 Mar 99 12:57:36 +0000
From: "CTSWEENE.UK.ORACLE.COM" <CTSWEENE@uk.oracle.com>
Subject: NO!!

<<Isn't Lord Nelson, the fellow with the large moustache seen on the World
war One posters ordering people to enlist...the basic pose to be ripped
off in the USA with the Uncle Sam Wants You poster?...>>

Are you serious?????????

Admiral Lord Nelson died at Trafalgar in 1805.  Lord Kitchener is the
buffoon glaring out of the posters.  If you're British I am severely
displeased by this faux pas.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <199903161320.NAA01306@uksn82>
Date: 16 Mar 99 13:18:37 +0000
From: "CTSWEENE.UK.ORACLE.COM" <CTSWEENE@uk.oracle.com>
Subject: More NO!!!

Sorry, I realise now that Mr McCausland is a Canadian, and therefore not
only cool, but entitled not to know who Nelson is.  Indeed, I'm glad he
doesn't, since Nelson was an objectionable little Imperialist.

<<Andy Partridge is probably a genius, but then so is Dave
Gregory. >>

I beg to differ.  A Genius is in the league of Shakespeare or Einstein.
Bandying the word "Genius" about in relation to someone of the stature of
Partridge is a little over the top.  I forgive you, though.  People do it
all the time about their favourite melody makers.  But it's a bit
disproportionate.

<<If Dave Gregory was this job-minded and
materialistic, then it took along time for him to realise what a poor
career choice he made.>>

Agree with this, though.  Indeed, Gregory could probably have earned  much
more cash much more easily had he really wanted to.  I'm sure a lot of
musicians would have loved to work with him.  Andy may have got him a house,
but I reckon Dave could have got a much bigger mansion without Andy's help.
But what would I know about Swindon house prices...

Davidoh writes
<<sorry, dom, but there's just too much vinegar in your posts.>>
I dunno.  when I told Dom I hated AV1 (offline), you should have heard the
crap he came out with in my direction.  He verbally slaughtered me.  But I
consider Dom to be the eighth wonder of the world, so I was kind of
flattered.

Oh, and Dom.  Your age.  Listen, mate.  I'm 34, and I'm rockin' more than I
ever did, even when I was bouncing those bazoomers around to Helicopter.  So
put that bloody cup of Ovaltine down and swing your pants.

Phil wrote
"S-T-A-L-K-E-R, is that how you spell Amanda in Dave's dictionary?"
That's funny.  But I believe 'tis Dave who phones Amanda....

That's all the crap I can think of for now.

------------------------------

From: STakesh@aol.com
Message-ID: <43f62f03.36ee5933@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 08:14:27 EST
Subject: Phil's C-H-E-A-P S-H-O-T; AVv1 news

Hi everyone,

Time for my $.02:

I've never responded in anger to anyone else's post, but the
following was an unwarranted low blow:

>>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:42:04 -0700
From: Phil Corless <philco@micron.net>
Subject: Amanda Loves Dave

"S-T-A-L-K-E-R, is that how you spell Amanda in Dave's dictionary?">>>>>

Phil, Amanda's no stalker.  For her to be a "stalker," she would have to
start bombarding Dave G. with unwanted phone calls, mailings, and/or
personal visits.  And Dave, for his part, would have to stop calling
Amanda, swapping recipies, and sending her neat stuff, like his home-cooked
CDs.  Phil, Amanda's no stalker.  She's just a loyal friend of Dave's, and
one of a small and dwindling number on this list.

You, on the other hand, just might be one of Andy's A-S-S-K-I-S-S-E-R-S,
too willing to take Andy's every public whine and whimper at full face
value, and lacking the imagination to lament how much better AVv1, AVv2,
and any other future XTC music could've been with a full measure of Dave's
contrib- utions.

I say this as someone who has personally witnessed Andy's charm at work.
"Seductive" would be an apt way of describing it.  But I'm not so naive as
to imagine that he's always as charming as he is "on" with his friends and
fans.  There's a growing body of evidence to show that this often-troubled
artistic genius is hell on wheels to have to work or live with.

And for the record, I don't doubt that Dave was getting overly
negativistic, or that his leaving the band may even ultimately be for the
best, given his and Andy's personality clashes.  It's just that Andy's dual
personality for me recalls what I've read about John Lennon (artistic
genius, unrivalled charm and wit, displays of generosity and graciousness,
public adulation of women in general, lefty political
consciousness(-raising), etc., coupled with personal disloyalties,
weakness, and an appalling capacity for vindictiveness aired publicly...).

About 15-20 digests back, someone approvingly noted how Andy's recent
reconciliatory comments on Skylarking producer Todd Rundgren, and, if
memory serves, also wondered if this portends favorably for a mending of
the rift between Andy and Dave.  Well, sure -- in about 13 years!  (Hang in
there, Dave!  Andy'll be coming around... we can almost see it!)

Flame away, pal...

In other news, AVv1 has yet to break the 3/20 Billboard Top 100 Albums
chart and was left out of the latest Rolling Stone "Recent Picks" lineup,
although the recent sales of promo copies of AVv1 for $90 and $62 on ebay
was the lead anecdote in a sidebar article on promos for sale, in the same
issue.  And about a week ago, the Newark "Star Ledger" reviewer Jay Lustig
gave AVv1 a 3 1/2 star rating, in a short and bland review that even I
didn't bother sending to John Relph.

Stephanie Takeshita
"Stupidity is the building block of the universe." -- Frank Zappa

	[ see www.chalkhills.org/articles/AppleVenus.html#tsl990309 ]

------------------------------

From: hick@mojo.org (gARetH baBB)
Subject: Re: your dictionary
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:53:39 GMT
Message-ID: <19990316.105339.88@gink.mojo.org>
Organization: Gink

In message <36ECC0FA.7928@wxs.nl>,
          huggers2@wxs.nl (strangeways) wrote:

> Question. Why does Partridge sing "four-eyed fool" in Your Dictionary?

"four eyes" - someone who wears glasses.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <19990316133632.10473.qmail@hotmail.com>
From: "kristi leigh siegel" <beatlebird@hotmail.com>
Subject: More misheard AV1 lyrics
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:36:31 PST

The misheard lyrics in this house come from my kids, who are marginal
XTC "fans". Sayeth my 7 year old son:

"Why is he singing 'bayonet, bayonet, I'm the Greenman'?"

Me: "No honey, he's saying 'lay your head on the Greenman'."

Son: "Oh. Thought he was singing about GI Joe." (his current fixation)

Kids!

--kristi
http://beatlemania.webjump.com

------------------------------

End of Chalkhills Digest #5-138
*******************************

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