Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #5-136

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 136

                  Monday, 15 March 1999

Today's Topics:

                        blessed be
         Re: Nelson, Hamilton, Victoria and Alice
             Re: The trashing of Dave Gregory
                 Re: Question for Duncan
                      dom, again...
                 Seattle Listening Party
          XTC Makes Sunday Globe Comics Section
                     Look Out London!
                  XTC in Tokyo (Take 2)
                    Converts Abound...
Quick reply on comment by Ballentyne, plus comments on Song Stories and Nons
           Re: Cadbury's Chocolate Nipple Brown
                   Thems Fighting Words
                    Amanda Loves Dave
                       Andy and Joe
                     your dictionary
 The Green Man and pagan iconography in English Churches
                     Crisis Schmisis


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7 (John Relph <>).

It's down in my pocket with the daylight folded there.


Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:11:13 +1300 (NZDT)
Message-Id: <v01540b09b30e152ccdc4@[]>
From: (James Dignan)
Subject: blessed be

>And, please, tell me Andy's *not* a warlock; I wouldn't be able to think
>of him the same way. My apologies to all you witches and warlocks.

I wouldn't think so. He may, of course, be a witch... Witches (male as well
as female) tend to shun the derogatory term "warlock", which means someone
who deliberately breaks oaths by lying or cheating. Ah well, at least you
didn't say wizard...



Message-Id: <>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:22:47 -0600
Subject: Re: Nelson, Hamilton, Victoria and Alice
From: "McCausland_Ian" <>

> Albert was the husband and consort of Queen Victoria; and Emma Hamilton was
> paramour of the great naval hero, Admiral Lord Nelson.

There is a great little film called Mrs Brown.. about Queen Victoria after
Albert's death...she was so much in love with him when he died that her
mourning was becoming a concern to the Empire, she was in such a
melancholy state...So their relationship was reknown for its undying
love... The film centers around the supposed affair with a horse handler
of hers that broke her mourning...

Isn't Lord Nelson, the fellow with the large moustache seen on the World
war One posters ordering people to enlist...the basic pose to be ripped
off in the USA with the Uncle Sam Wants You poster?...

I get the sense that both affairs were so well known but never publically
acknowledged that they eventually become part of pop culture...

> It's little moments that these that make us British fans realize just how
> exotic some aspects of XTC must seem to fans in other parts of the world!

Indeed and that for me is some of the appeal. These references make their
music so unmistakenly British. And haven't you heard Britainia is cool
these days :-) Of course I write this in Canada which has so many
pyschological and linquistic ties to the Uk that we all seem to have a
pre-dispossed preference to music like this....To give you an example of
our differences from the US,... The CBC, our national Tv station is under
strike by its tech staff, programming is reduced due to the strike.. the
normally one hour National newscast at nite is a stripped down 1/2 and the
in place of the last half they are showing Absolutly Fabulous!

"Only in Canada you say?...Pity....."
(A reference to a longing running series of Red Rose Commercials, where
all these sterotypical English try the tea, always ending with that remark)

My weird XTC AV1 moment, having decided to dust off the Discman and walk
while hearing AVI I found myself unconsiously buying a Cadbury's Fut & Nut
bar while , guessed it,..listening to Fruit Nut...could this be a
conspiracy between Cadbury's and Our Boys?... or perhaps a possible
product tie in?....:-)

Enjoying Not Lurking in the True North Strong and Free

Ian McCausland


Message-ID: <003901be6e51$7686baa0$021217d4@smj>
From: "Stephen Jackson" <>
Subject: Re: The trashing of Dave Gregory
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:28:10 -0000

<this belittling of his former
bandmate's "little solos" reeks of the worst possible egomania and lack of
basic courtesy, not to mention self-restraint.

Now, I know this point, and many others about Partridge's "genius"
excesses and tantrums, have been raised in previous digests, inevitably to
be followed by almost sycophantic rebuffs as to creative genius' claim to
immunity in such matters.>

Absolutely. I am tired of reading of AP's slagging of DG....I don't know
much about their relationships, but I do know that DG brought more to XTC
than a few little solos...AP's talk of "being able to play anything Dave
could play" and DG's "lazyness" and the need for AP to bully DG into
coming up with creative stuff is really pissing me off. As far as I can
see, Dave Gregory, other than providing flourishes of genius, provided
'quality control' and appeared to serve as some kind of mantle to AP's
excesses (ironically, of course, AV1 is not an album that suffers
particularly from this) In reading these digests, I find it surprising
that quite a number of subscribers consider Dave's departure as nothing to
get concerned about. I find it equally surprising that AP can slag this
man off, and this forum's reaction is one of either agreement or
complacency. Andy Partridge is probably a genius, but then so is Dave
Gregory. The difference is that AP appears to be conceited, an egomaniac
and something of a twat. Andy says "Dave regarded it as a job."  Odd then
that Andy's assessment of the past 20 years is that his songs "bought Dave
a house and a guitar collection"...If Dave Gregory was this job-minded and
materialistic, then it took along time for him to realise what a poor
career choice he made. Surely Dave's concerns were about the music and
little else. I'm sure I will miss him.

Two steps forward, six steps back.


Message-Id: <>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:32:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Question for Duncan
From: "Duncan Watt" <>

FG wrote/queried:

>From: Funk Genie <>

>My question to you Duncan is how much of a say does an artist have
>in whether or not someone covers his/her song. Could Zep, Sting, XTC have
>refused to allow the use of their songs? I've wondered about this since
>Puff Daddy started his tomfoolery and I am even more curious now that
>REM's "Superman", Steve Miller Band's "Fly Like and Eagle", and the Stones
>"Can't Always Get what you Want," have all been used in commercials. And
>if the artists do have a choice what is their motivation for allowing the
>use of their song?

How much say? Most artists sign away a good portion of their publishing
rights as part of the record deal, at least with big companies. Once a
song is published, it's very hard to keep it from being
'covered'(re-recorded/performed), as long as it's properly credited and
paid for. There's even a Compulsory License Rate designed to be sure
artists aren't taken advantage of by large Publisher-Slime, kind of like
the minimum wage (Law-Slime: I'm obviously generalizing here, I know you
could poke holes through this quick, simple, legible answer). Check out:

if you're really into it, esp. (b) and (c). Of course, not everyone
follows these rules anyway.

Sampling(as opposed to re-recording) has a different set of rules. Suffice
to say, you could keep someone from using a sample of your song in their
recording, or at least keep them from ***making any money*** off of their
recording. And you've got to be notified, regardless, so Mr. Sumner knew
his Ode To Stalking was going to be trans-muted into a Groove For A Dead
Friend Released As Quickly As Possible After His Death. Plus, he sang on
it at the MTV awards...

Use in commercials is completely under the copyright owners' control, so
feel free to blame the artists on this one. Unless they sold their
publishing to Michael Jackson or someone.

As far as motivation is concerned, let's ask Yoko Ono why she sold
'Revolution' to Nike. It's... do I really have to type it? Come on, I'm
the Really Cynical Duncan, remember? Remember, most of these artists don't
even care what kind of music it is on their new record! Most
consistently-succesful artists will do literally whatever kind of music it
takes to have a hit. Why is Old Guy Sting singing on Young Guy Puff
Daddy's live gig? Cred, duh. The always amazingly-honest Cher just told a
magazine(I'm sorry, I don't remember which one, so I can't cross-ref you,
my fault) that her record company basically told her she was doing a dance
record, and she of course said no, being that she dated Richie
Sambora(she's A Rocker, don'tcha know!). They pushed, she gave in, now
she's Pro-Tools-Trilling her way to Number One. She of course said she
likes dance music now. She also said she liked Sonny Bono, Greg Allman and
Gene Simmons(Did anyone groove on how they both played the Super
Bowl?). Most of the music you hear on the radio is actually a commercial
for the artist, rather than a form of expression.

Duncan Watt... But Wait! Buy My New Tape That Puts Your Kids To Sleep,
Guaranteed! It's Cool, Natch, But It's Hot, Too! Just Surf Your Little
Butt Over To: And Click On The "Go To Sleep"
Picture!  Know Any Tired Parents? Looking For The PERFECT BABY SHOWER
GIFT? Just Want Your Own Little Oxygen-Thieves To Give You A Little More
Time At Night For The Ol' You-Know-What, Nudge Nudge, Wink Wink? WELL WHAT
ARE YOU WAITING FOR? BUY NOW! Not Some Deep, Carefully Recorded Piece
Reflecting Thirty-Plus Years Of Practice And Experience, It's Just A
Parlor Trick Designed To Make Me Money! And While You're There, Check Out


Message-Id: <>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:25:26 -0500
From: David Oh <>
Subject: dom, again...

ok, dom, this is why i responed as i did...

it's ok for you to have an opinion & to express it - hey, that's what we're
all here for, isn't it?
equally, it is ok for that "blows guy" to have his opinion, & to express
it, too.
it's ok for you to disagree with him, him with you, me with you & we are
all together... wait a minute, i've gone off topic there...

what i object to is the name calling on your part. it is completely
unnecessary! disagree all you want, but enough with the name calling. please!

you say what you write is done so in humour. perhaps that is so, but it
does not come across as humourous; it's just plain nasty! calling someone a
"prized penis" & a "twat" may not be the ultimate insult to you, & maybe
your mum uses the same language (perhaps that explains a lot...), but it
_is_ insulting &, again, it is completely unnecessary!

looking past the nasty words you choose, one can see that you do write with
intelligence & you can voice your opinion very well. most of your posts are
entertaining, but can't you please keep the personal remarks out of it?

have you never heard the adage, "you can attract more flies with honey than
with vinegar"? sorry, dom, but there's just too much vinegar in your posts.

my opinion. your opinion. his opinion. her opinion. agree. disagree. just
pull in the reigns on the insults, ok?

peace & xtc,



Message-ID: <003901be6e94$1e436120$19e6e3cf@joel---virginia>
From: "Joel A. Enbom" <>
Subject: Seattle Listening Party
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:29:24 -0800

    Pardon me for taking up space reserved for the intelligent ones.

    I just wanted to publicly thank Jeff Smelser, Lisa, Suzanne Sweeney,
and Jason for representing the Chalkhills mailing list so well at our
listening party Saturday night.  A nicer, more personable bunch of people
have not yet crossed my threshhold.

    Although there were fewer in attendance than expected, the XTC
neophytes who also visited came away from the evening impressed by and, in
at least one case, newly devoted to following the music of our favorite
Swindonfolk.  The afforementioned individuals were instrumental in guiding
the new ears through the lyrical and musical thicket that was on display
that night.

    Apparently my calzones didn't cause too much suffering, and my
3-year-old daughter's (making a surprise visit from her home IN THE
JUNGLE!!!) interpretive dance routine during "Greenman" was only a minor
distraction.  She's still angry that I didn't play "Your Dictionary" a
second time.

Thanks again, Harrison.  I appropriated your "Grand Unifying Theory" on
more than a few occasions and it led to some disarmingly interesting

Jeff was nice enough to bring Look Look.  I, finally, after all these years
can say authoritatively than Andy (circa "This is Pop") looked JUST LIKE

Thanks to Jeff, once more, for bringing Chalkhill's Children '97 - Don't
Ring Us.  I was particularly impressed by Steve Clarke's (right?) "Down a
Peg."  Nice contributions, Ed Miller, Peter Fitzpatrick, and Senor

So, one more time, until we do it again, thanks.  It was fun.

                Junior Idiot (trainee)


Message-ID: <>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:31:20 EST
Subject: XTC Makes Sunday Globe Comics Section

XTC's AV V1 is one of the featured "New Releases!" in the weekly Newbury
Comics advertisement, in this Sunday's _Boston Globe_ comics section. The
Sunday Globe is New England's most widely read Sunday newspaper, with a
circulation of about 250,000. Advertised price for the CD is $13.88.

(I'm more of a Boston Herald reader, myself [better comics!]; just thought
I'd share this info.)

RE: Fruit Nut - at the end, the fadeout on "keeps me sane...keeps me
sa-a-a-a- a-a..."

 From the first listening, I've interpreted the weird vocal effect applied
to "keeps me sane" as actually calling into question the singer's
sanity. Ray Davies-like satirization of yet another English middle-class
"type," comfortable in his surroundings yet inwardly in turmoil?

Wes (Wilson)

P.S. Craig's Hot Sauce (Green) rules...


Message-ID: <>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:28 +0000
From: "Neal H. Buck" <>
Subject: Look Out London!


St. Patrick Day's night (a hard one), I'll be leaving for London for a
week's vacation. I'm planning on meeting a couple of Chalkers there,
BBlanchard & Melissa from Ohio (also on vacation). A pilgrimage to
Swindon is in order, and (literally) along the way to see the actual
Chalkhills. Too bad the lads (pretty funny since they're older than most
of us - even YOU, Dom!) won't be around.

Speaking of age, I was glad when I turned 30 - I didn't have to act like
a frat boy anymore (not that I was ever in a frat to begin with). I
didn't have that "you're young so go out and party!" attitude. I could
just say, "I'm 30 now, I have responsibilities, you can go and destroy
all the brain cells you want - been there." So enjoy while you can, and
then enjoy not having to ENJOY. Now 40 was a bitch - that brought up the
whole mortality thing, and the what have I done with my life stuff.
Don't worry about it now, all you whippersnappers, it's not real yet.
But guess what? I got over that, too. I guess I'll get thru 50, 60 & 70,
too (whoever willing).

My take on the line "the son is dead, the father can be born" was
two-fold. One, it could've been a nod to the Christian story of Jesus'
death leading followers to the Father (God). "Born again" and all that.
Second, knowing Andy's aversion to Christianity, perhaps a reference to
the death of that religion, and the birth of the pagan father (aka
Greenman) belief in his life. Of course, I don't have "Song Stories"
yet, and from what I've read in the Digest, it had more to do with
parenting. Interesting mental masterbation, though.

On the same track, I STILL hear the line as "a knowing church will
amplify his call." Not being a native or historian, I'm not sure of the
full story, BUT I figure if the church builders put Greenman up on their
high church (or High Church) wall, he must of had some place in their
practices. Either that, or it could be an assertion that those who
"knew" the importance of the Greenman and what he represents will
demonstrate that in their lives, consciously or not.

"I Can't Own Her" is becoming a favorite now. Even though Andy uses the
same effect each time for "the swirling sky," it always feels new and
surprising, even. There's just no security in the end.

Thanks to Cary Tip, I heard a piece of the WHFS interview of Andy &
Colin by Lou Brutus. Unfortunately it was all about the touring thing
again. But one thing Andy said about it was interesting, that "he'd been
through the phase of being in a gang playing loud guitars." Listening to
TB confirms to me that he did, indeed ENJOY performing, at the time,
even if he's beyond that now. The change in music from "English
Settlement" is so obivous - not a raver! I still like to listen (and
dance) to the early stuff AND "original" Punk rock, too. I ALSO have
mellowed, and appreciate classical & jazz (though I don't neccessarily
know or care WHAT I'm hearing) and, of course, AV1.

I like the musings about alternative AV2 titles, and decided that the
suggestion "Dandelions Roar" was my favorite. I think the "phallic"
symbol on the cover should be a Sunflower, though I don't think that the
reference in "I'd Like That" was supposed to be sexual, same with "Ten
Feet Tall". To me, they're more about feeling on top of the world,
walking on Cloud Nine, all that. However, he does use a flower as
phallic metaphor in "Easter Theatre", though it's type isn't identified.
A sunflower just seems to be a more "manly" flower than, say, a
dandelion or orchid.

I think this has been my longest post ever, wake up now!

Oh, did I tell you about my 5 hour wait... just kidding ;>)



Message-Id: <>
Subject: XTC in Tokyo (Take 2)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 99 13:11:02 +0900
From: Mark Goldsmith <>

I was hoping that someone else who attended the signing at Tower Records
in Tokyo last week would post an account, so it pleased me to see Mr.
Isogai's (and now Osaka resident Michael Wicks') message in a recent
digest, but at the same time I was genuinely surprised that he gave such
a positive review. For my friend and me, the signing was a towering
(higher than a sunflower, say) disappointment.

Mr. Isogai had obviously been clued in ahead of time that only the first
two hundred people to purchase AV1 at Tower *on the day of the cd's
release* would be allowed an audience with the dukes of pop. In neither
of two phone calls we had made (one to inquire about the signing, the
other to confirm it was happening) to Pony Canyon (XTC's distributor in
Japan) was any mention made of this crucial little fact.

I arrived at Tower, about half an hour after the signing had started, to
find my more punctual friend standing among a large group of milling
Japanese in a roped-off area. When I joined him, he gave me the bad news.
We soon noticed too that everyone around us had, in addition to a copy of
AV1, a little colored coupon, which no amount of feigned ignorance was
likely to cause to materialize in our own cd-laden hands. A bit stunned
and at a loss what to do, we gazed up at the monitors showing the signing
in progress. There were Andy and Colin, flanked by what I assumed were
interpreters till reading Michael Wicks' message (maybe "handlers" is a
better term), sitting at a table set up on a dais in a corner of the
room. The fans were filing past at a rate only slightly more sluggish
than that of guests negotiating the receiving line at a wedding of people
they hardly know. No one was taking pictures of the two, let alone posing
with them in photo ops of a lifetime. After signing, Andy, spurred
perhaps by a nervous reflex, would often bow across the table while
shaking hands, which, trust me, is a sure-fire way to look like a dork,
or worse, a mocking lout (sorry Andy). (To those of you thinking of
coming to Japan, the Japanese don't expect you to bow--and certainly not
while seated *and* shaking hands. It looks unnatural to them, like
witnessing a walrus attempt to sprint.) Colin, whose common sense
apparently was working overtime after the long flight the day before,
chose to remain upright.

Because the line was moving so quickly, and our roped area was shrinking
accordingly, we decided, what the hell, we'd remain wedged in and hope
for the best, relying on bravado, or, failing that, abject pleading to
get what we wanted. This tactic will sometimes work in Japan, as in most
places. While shuffling forward, looking as unconcerned as possible, my
friend filled me in on the Q & A session I'd missed at the beginning. He
hadn't been impressed. Someone had asked Andy for his definition of
pop--which he declined to give. Another sample: They were asked about
their experience in the United States. Andy rephrased the question, "How
did we find America? We turned left at Greenland." This faux bon mot
wasn't even notably funny when the Beatles used it lo these many years
ago, when the joke was, I presume, already old--some wag (or naif?) among
Leif Ericson's crew probably popped it off at the press conference on his
return to Norway. Did they really expect the Japanese to catch the
reference (particularly in translation)? I somehow doubt it. Rather than
make an honest effort to communicate, they merely mumbled (literally)
stale drolleries.

Cutting to the chase, when we got to the head of the line, the woman
collecting the passes wouldn't let us through. We switched from bravado
to pleading mode immediately, but to no avail. Rules are rules, eh? You
are not allowed to communicate with those other human beings on the stage
eight feet in front of you. The few people remaining in line went around
us and proceeded to have their cd's signed while we pled our case. To
make matters worse (believe it or not) some Tower toad took it upon
himself to come over and lend "assistance" in the form of pushing me,
while telling me to get back and not to take pictures. (No pictures? In
Japan?) Unfortunately, because my arms were loaded down with cd's, Song
Stories, daypack, jacket, and camera I couldn't push back. Instead I had
to stand my ground as best I could, feeling like Monty Python's Brian
trying to reason with the centurion. (You all remember that scene.
Hapless Brian tries to give his persecutor a quick lesson in freethinking
only to receive the very chilling response, "I like rules.")

The situation was pretty grim, to say the least, so I started calling out
to Colin, who was closest to us, figuring that once he understood the
setup he'd brush aside the restrictions, but apparently he's gotten good
over the years at suppressing that reflex that causes one to turn
involuntarily in the direction of the person calling one's name. Then I
had an idea that I was sure would get us past the flunkies: I asked my
friend, who, as luck (I thought) would have it, happens to be the Chicago
Tribune's foreign correspondent in Japan, to show his press
credentials--but he didn't want to do that! Of all the journalists in the
world, I had to end up knowing the one with scruples! Useless!

About then the signing ended. But to leave, Andy and Colin had to pass
through a door that brought them even closer to where we were standing.
As they went by I called out to both of them, but got nothing better than
unfocussed glances in my direction. And that was it. Game over. The
entire signing mummery, including the Q & A, had been accomplished in an
hour and a quarter. I kid you not. They came all the way to Tokyo to
interact with their fans for 75 minutes. No wonder Mr. Isogai, who
otherwise had no complaint, commented, "I didn't have enough time to talk
with them more." You can say that again.

In the Beatles Anthology George, Paul, and Ringo recount their 1966 tour
of Japan. They describe how every movement was scheduled to the minute.
"At precisely 7:30 there will be a knock at your door. At 7:32 you will
leave your room. At 7:34 you will take the elevator down to the lobby."
Etc. And Ringo says that they used to enjoy messing with the schedule by
*not* answering the door, just to watch their Japanese handlers go
"barmy", as he puts it. I wish that instead of appropriating the Beatles'
America joke, Andy and Colin had adopted their behavior. Who's supposed
to be serving whom? What could the Japanese record people have done if
Andy and Colin had said they wanted to meet everyone who had taken the
time to come out and see them? If I hadn't read in this digest how genial
and accommodating they were at the signings in the States, I'd have
concluded from my experience that Andy and Colin were a couple of
inconsiderate bastards with no interest whatsoever in meeting their fans.
As it is, I'm definitely not impressed with them for allowing themselves
to be "handled" so thoroughly. And I'll say this, no round of drinks can
extinguish this feeling of engulfing disappointment. I've tried.

Customary apologies for the uncommonly long posting.

Mark Goldsmith


Message-Id: <>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:18:45 -0500
From: Ben Gott/Loquacious Music <>
Subject: Converts Abound...


More news on the XTConversion front...This time, a note from my friend
Alex, a sophomore at Yale University:

> Hey Ben,
> Good news: I bought XTC as per your recommendation and love it. It's
> totally fantastic. It's a little moby, a little glass, a little beatles, and
> many more things. Very, very good. Anything you recommend in the future, I
> shall promptly purchase.
> talk to you soon,
> alex

The love just keeps on spreading!

My brother also saw the commercial for "AV1" on Comedy Central (he lives in
Houston -- I don't know if this makes any difference).  He said it was
really good, and he was totally psyched to have witnessed TVT's obvious
surpassing of Virgin in the promotional department.  Good work, TVT -- even
though I haven't seen the ad yet!

Yesterday, I went to Staples (an office supply store) and bought Kodak
t-shirt transfer paper.  With the aid of my trusty PowerBook and my new
Epson colour printer, I created my very own "Apple Venus" t-shirt.  I
designed a funky XTC logo so, if anyone's interested in making their own,
let me know (I'll e-mail the jpeg file to you).  The shirt has definitely
turned a few heads around campus (but that's probably because I'm wearing a
t-shirt in Maine in the middle of March!)

Can anyone tell me (off list, of course) about Richard Thompson's song
"Wall of Death"?  I heard R.E.M.'s cover the other day, and was really
impressed.  Wasn't Thompson in Fairport Convention (i.e., another XTC

"AV1" was #16 on Newbury Comics' Top 20.  Good job, "AV1"!



Message-ID: <>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:15:49 -0800
From: Ken Sanders <>
Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services
Subject: Quick reply on comment by Ballentyne, plus comments on Song Stories and Nonsuch

Howdy again, Chalkers
a third post in almost as many weeks, if not days (it seems to me).

George Ballentyne had this to say in #5-134 after tying the
"Nelson/Hamilton" reference together for fans ignorant (and I mean that
not in a condescending way) of British history:

It's little moments that these that make us British fans realize just
exotic some aspects of XTC must seem to fans in other parts of the

And George, it's moments like those that make me, as a fan and
un-abashed Anglophile, want to learn MORE! *S*  I can't say there's any
band right now that tweaks my inquisitive streak like XTC does, past and
present incarnations included.

Thanks George, *pleasedtameetcha*

    On other topics that are more current of late, I  have just
purchased "Nonsuch", and have given it a few listens this afternoon (and
I blame Virgin Records' cowardice in promoting the album for my
unwillingness to purchase it....I feel cheated, by my hesitation AND
Virgin *fie on them*), hearing the foundations for RoO and the rest of
AV1 is a pleasure.  Too bad I waited so long *hangs head in shame*

    In the same afternoon, I devoured Song Stories *while devouring
nachos, during a rainy California day, in a Del Taco
restaurant*....heady and fascinating read, and like Neville Farmer said
near the end, there's a need to learn more (but I'll let the nourishing
meal of the book digest for a while, and savor the flavor of vicariously
experiencing the journey XTC has trod).

    I've rambled on too long, I fear, but in leaving,  thanks for the
correction in crediting "Rubberband Man" to the Spinners (NOT  Ohio
Players, as I mistakenly noted) Stephanie...glad you enjoyed my bit of

Ciao 'n Hors D'oeuveres,


Message-ID: <>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:05:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Danks <>
Subject: Re: Cadbury's Chocolate Nipple Brown

Harrison wrote (among many other extremely astute
>*God, I'm gonna miss Stanley Kubrick!

That, to me, is the gist of it. I mean, the reason I
love listening to XTC so much. The same "thing" that
drove Mr. Kubrick to make films, I believe, is the
same "thing" that drives Messrs. Partridge and
Moulding to make music. None of them ever cared what
anyone thought (or thinks) of their art, and they
will continue to chase (and capture!) the muse until
the end, just as Mr. Kubrick did. Farewell, Stanley!

Brian D.


Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:23:15 -0500
Subject: Thems Fighting Words
Message-ID: <>

If you don't want to read this please page down.
Miss Amanda said:
<<Alright, that's it. I have lost all respect I ever had for Andy as a
person. When he decides to remove his foot from his mouth an get his
head out of his ass, maybe I'll feel a bit different. For now, Andy is
dead in my eyes. You can flame away all you want, this is my opinion,
this is how I feel, so nyah. Dave gave twenty years of his life to that
band, and this is what his "friend" does to him.>>

Those are fighting words.  This is to those people who bad mouth Andy,
and I know you have the right to your opinions, but so do I.  Okay, I
don't really like how people bash Andy.  How would you like it if I said
something like, "Dave's a real asshole (excuse the language) for leaving
XTC or he's just a plain asshole and I've lost all respect of him.  How
would you react?  Well, I myself (if I was a fan of Dave's) be pretty
hurt.  I would want to defend him as much as possible.
I just think Andy's being unfairly badmouthed.  So what his and Dave's
personalities didn't click, that doesn't mean you have to blame Adny all
the way.  Maybe it was partly Dave's fault.  Maybe he wanted to do stuff
Andy didn't want to do.
I know I take this a bit more personally than you do, but I really like
Andy, and I don't like him being badmouthed in anyway.  I know he can be
a jerk sometimes, but he's been screwed so many times.
Okay that's all for now.  And I have changed my mind on the IRC chat.
I'll let you know of the date and time of the rescheduled chat.  It was
my fault for not letting people have a little bit more time to get there.

A long time Andy supporter


Message-Id: <>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:42:04 -0700
From: Phil Corless <>
Subject: Amanda Loves Dave

"S-T-A-L-K-E-R, is that how you spell Amanda in Dave's dictionary?"


Message-ID: <>
From: "Duncan Kimball" <>
Subject: Andy and Joe
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:31:55 PST

Hi Chalklings

Many thanks to David Edwards for his excellent post about the link
between Andy and Jospeh Campbell. I had referred to Campbell in an
earlier post, as he mentioned, but it's been quite a while since I've
read Campbell, and I was planning to go back and do a bit of boning up
before I posted more. David saved me the trouble and summarised it most
ably. (Also, I realised later that all my Campbell books are in

David - thanks for the concise explanantion of all that the lunar
bull/sacrifice/Jesus/tree of life stuff, which was what I was thinking
of (but had kinda forgotten). I found some other material on the Web
today that might be of use to those interested in this thread. "Easter
Theatre" draws quite heavily on Norse mythology. The central source for
the Norse mythos is the so-called "Prose (or Younger) Edda", written by
the the twelfth century Icelandic historian and poet, Snorri Sturlsson
(1178-1241) (great name huh?) whose work was pivotal in preserving the
Scandinavian myths and the poetic lore of the Norse Icelanders.

Andy specifically refers to Odin, the All-Father, primary god of the
Norse pantheon:

"Odin mounts the tree
Bleeds for you and me"

and thus combines images from both Norse and Christian religion. Odin

   "Leader of the Aesir. Odin had a myriad of names including Allfather,
Ygg, Bolverk [evil doer], and Grimnir. He also had many functions
including being a god of war, poetry, wisdom, and death. His halls were
called Gladsheim Valaskjalf and Valhalla. Odin's high seat, Hlidskialf,
was in Valaskjalf. It was from this throne that he could see over all
the world. Valhalla is where he gathered his portion of the slain
warriors, Einheriar, whom the valkyries had chosen."


"Odin sacrificed himself for knowledge by hanging on the world tree,
Yggdrasil, which means Ygg's horse. Ygg is a name for Odin and horse is
a metaphor for the gallows. He thereby learns the runes. Another
sacrifice he made for wisdom was his eye. He gave it up in order to
drink from the Well of Mimir which bestowed great knowledge. Because of
this, he is typically depicted as having one eye. He is also depicted as
wearing a cloak, being old, having a long grey beard, and wearing a wide
brimmed hat down low over his face to conceal his one-eyed visage."

Andy also refers to the Tree of Life, another central image of Norse
mythology, linked to Odin. The Tree of Life/Knwoledge is a very potent
reference, since, as David points, out it's common to Buddhism, Judaism
and Christianity. It's also a central image in many native American
creation myths. To the Norse Icelanders, The Tree of Life is Yggdrasil,
a great ash tree, whose branches shade the world, and whose roots
support it. Here are some quotes from the Snorra Edda referring to
Yggdrasil, which might be of interest:

   "One of Odin's initial acts as a god was controlling time, founding a
balance of light and darkness, assigning courses to seasons and days so
they would alternate regularly.  The earth showed signs of life as
vegetation spread. Walking along the sea's edge, the brothers discovered
two downed trees.  One was an ash tree, the other, an elm. From the ash
tree they molded the first man (Aske) and woman (Embla) and breathed
life into them. The humans were placed in Midgard and conceived the
human race.  The gods then created their own homeland, Asgard, built
high above Midgard.  Midgard and Asgard were linked by a rainbow bridge
<"Smiling from the moist kiss of her rainbow mouth">
called Bifrost. Seated high in a hall in Asgard, Odin overlooks the

  "The universe was supported by a giant ash tree, the Yggdrasil. Its
branches overshadow all worlds. Its three roots reach into Jotunheim
(the Giant's world), Niffleheim (the place of darkness), and Asgard, the
godly domain. There are springs by each root. The root in Asgard is kept
by three goddesses (the Norns), the Fates (Urdur, the past;  Verdandi,
the present; Skuld, the future). A squirrel (Ratatosk) runs up and down
the trunk bearing words from the eagle to the dragon at the base. The
eagle and a hawk are perched on its branches. Four deer frolic around
the tree, eating its buds. At the base of the ash gnaws Nidhogge, the
dragon who one day would succeed in toppling the Yggdrasil, bringing
down the universe."

The Norse mythos, in common with many Asian and American myths, saw the
world as a cyclical process of succeeding ages. After the age of the
gods, led by Odin, there was to be a final cataclysmic battle between
the gods and the forces of evil, in which the entire world would be
destroyed, then born anew.

   "Far away, hidden from the heaven-high fires will be the seeds of
another generation, a generation of man coexisting with the gods, a
loving and peaceful people.  This man and woman, concealed in the
Yggdrasil, are called Lif and Lifthrasir. Earth will arise from the
waters to greet them with new blades of grass and vegetation.  The sun
will reappear in all its previous resplendence. Balder will return from
the world of the dead, with new gods, and they will sit down in the
green fields, laughing beneath the blue sky and remembering the old

Sound familiar? The Norse creation myths are also very closely allied to
ancient Germanic mythology, chiefly known through the famous 13th
century German work "Das Nibelungenlied"


which was the inspiration for Wagner's opera-cycle "The Ring of the

* ---------------------------------

Andy also refers obliquely to the Norns (Fates), who spin out the fates
of mortal lives as a thread,

"As the prompter's fingers through her spinning script"

They are one of many common links between Norse and Greek mythology,
such as the link between the Baldur and the Christ myths.

"Odin had a son, Baldur. Baldur feared for his life after several
disturbing dreams. So he should feel secure, his mother, Frigg, asked of
all living things, "Promise me not one of you should ever harm my son."
All the gods but Odin thought Frigg took sufficient measures to protect
Balder and threw stones and darts at him in jest. Loki, a protean god,
gained the confidence of Frigg when he disguised himself as a woman and
asked if there were anything that could harm Balder.  Frigg said,
"Nothing. I have received all the oaths." Loki pursued the
question--"Everything?" Frigg admitted she neglected asking the
Mistletoe, a plant growing near Asgard, but was not concerned. Loki left
and returned with the plant. He gave it to Hodur, a blind god, and told
him to throw it at Balder. Loki formed the plant into a dart, and when
Hodur threw it, the dart pierced Balder. Balder died and the gods
mourned him.  Loki was caught and bound, to be released only at the
world's end."

This mourning period of the gods is the Norse explanation for the origin
of the seasons, and is similar to the Greek myth of the abduction of

"Now the son has died, the father can be born".

* ---------------------------------

I was really tickled to read that Andy knows Campbell's work! I can't
imagine how I didn't realise it before. I discovered Campbell about 7
years ago, after I saw "The Power of Myth" on TV - I bought all the
books and devoured them. A brilliant mind, and I can see exactly why it
would appeal to Andy. Every time I hear religious types raving on I find
myself wishing they would shut up, go away and read "The Masks of God"
before they opened their mouths again. Anyway, I hope this discussion
will inspire a few more people to check out his work. He really is one
of the great minds of the century.

You can find more about Campbell at the Joseph Campbell Foundation

and there is a great WWW source on Norse mythology on the WWW at:



Message-ID: <>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:12:42 +0100
From: strangeways <>
Subject: your dictionary

Question. Why does Partridge sing "four-eyed fool" in Your Dictionary?
Is it some kind of english saying that I don't know about? Or could it
be a pun, is he actually saying "for I'd fool you, lead round
everywhere" Just guessing.



Message-ID: <>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:42:08 +0000
From: JP Nicholls <>
Organization: It came off in my hand, Mum!
Subject: The Green Man and pagan iconography in English Churches

The tiny church at Kilpeck in Herefordshire is cover in pagan symbols.
This is an amazing building.

The sculptors of the day (c.1200 AD) were immersed in the local
pre-Christian culture, and this was expressed in their work.

Anyone with any interest in England's pagan roots cannot fail to be
interested in this building. If you are visiting the UK and trailing
round some historical sites, Kilpeck is worth a visit. It is beautiful
and utterly unspoiled. In fact I have reservations telling people about
the place in case more people visit and it is ruined by tourism....

It has a splendid example of a green man (with the customary vines
coming from his mouth) at the top of the right hand pillar of the main
door. He can be seen at the bottom of the large central picture at the
following location, although this picture doesn't do the doors justice:

Kilpeck also has a perfectly-preserved Sheela-Na-Gig, a pagan symbol of
a grotesque woman holding open her massively distended vulva. The
history of this symbol alone could fill several volumes of Chalkhills.

Blessed Be ...

JP Nicholls    /
"Someone take these dreams away"


Message-Id: <4782AD6ADDBDD2119B570008C75DD5C1021F31@MGMTM02>
From: Lawson Dominic <>
Subject: Crisis Schmisis
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:15:45 -0000

Your concern is heartwarming, dear Chalksods. I'm touched. No, really.

>>> I own at least two Bruce Springsteen records
>>>To mimic the bully kid on The Simpsons, "Hah Hah!!" Oh, you never should
have admitted that one.

Yeah, been kicking myself ever since I clicked on "send". Damn. I could, of
course, explain myself but then that would sound eerily like desperation. Oh
fuck it, here goes....

Springsteen LP #1 is "Nebraska". Deeply depressing load of mumbling and
I-could-do-better-style acoustic guitar. Strangely, it's great. Bought it
for 50p when a second-hand record shop in Brighton closed down...

Springsteen LP #2 is "The River". Deeply depressing (but for a whole
different reason) double album of uniformly dreadful honking and bleating
from a man who really should shave a bit more often. Bought from the same
shop, but for a whole Earth pound. I was robbed.

You're right though, I've really blown it now. As long as no one finds out
about my tijuana brass collection I should be alright.....

>>The ability to appreciate a good tune doesn't mean
you're an aging sellout. It just means you're maturing in your

Hmmm....I getcha, Mr B, I getcha....but I hope you're not suggesting that
listening to, say, Napalm Death constitutes a lack of maturity, taste-wise.
Personally I would say that listening to such intense and often complex
music requires a great deal more maturity of judgement and musical awareness
than listening to Crydid Hyce (as we call them in Westminster) but then I'm
just getting shirty because I know you're (mainly) right. Smarty-pants.

>>"39 is NOT middle aged!"

It bloody is, especially when you smoke as much as I do. Splutter. Cough.

>>I also still own 1 Springsteen album (and I'm mortified to admit that
it's not even one of the good ones - wait, there were none!)

Yes, alright. Jesus, I wish I'd said Nik Kershaw...

Don said:
>>So I can't call it "boffo", Dom, but
"stonkingly good" is OK?

I suppose so. "Boffo" is definitely a stabbing offence, but "stonkingly
good" is just about bearable. For future reference I recommend any of the
following: "Corking", "cracking", "chuffing marvelous", "a veritable
rip-snorter", "arse-wideningly superb", "pant-shittingly great" or just
plain old "shit hot". Boffo schmoffo...

Quick, time to be pedantic...

>>This leaves "Bagman" (The Fall) to clean up the mess..

Er,...."Carry Bag Man", actually. But you were close-uh.

>>and "Lonely Man" (The Godfathers)

Fantastic. It wasn't just me then? Anyone else remember "Sun Arise"?

>>Where be any "South Bay" Chalkers?

Firstly, "are there any" or "where are all the" would both be less twattish
than "where be", but again I am being a rotten old meanie. Secondly, I've
absolutely no idea, does South Coast count? Where be "South Coast" Chalkers?
That's what I want to know...

>> Not to sound
like Joan Jett, but I love rock 'n roll!

You and me both, tiger. All this prissy nonsense about punk being "easy" to
do is absolute crap. We know this because there were BAD punk bands (too
many to mention) and GREAT punk bands (similarly too many to mention but Sex
Pistols, Ramones, Dead Kennedys and Discharge will do for starters). The bad
stuff is easy to do: three chords, play fast, shout a bit. The great stuff
is great precisely because of the same reasons why we love XTC. Great songs,
well played, with loads of testicular welly. Magic. Also, what's wrong with
Joan Jett? Put another dime in the jukebox, baby, and all will be

Anyway, get up on stage with me and I dare any of you to play any of my
band's songs. No ****ing chance, buddy. And we're punk as **** (even with my
haircut). Swear, spit, pogo etc....



End of Chalkhills Digest #5-136

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