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Subject: Chalkhills Digest #4-12


          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 4, Number 12

                Wednesday, 22 October 1997

Today's Topics:

                  Reel by Reel by Buster
                   the show must go on
                        Gobetweens
                        good? bad?
        Peter Pumpkinhead ref. / Margaret Freeman
                        New Album
       Young Cleopatra: Two words. Nabokov indeed.
                     A neccesary evil
       NO!!! Don't cut these demos off the album!!!
                       rags & bones
                      kids & baboons
        re: UDA: No busses skidding on black ice?
                  Wouldn't It Be Funny?
                The HILLS are alive......
                      Tissue tigers
                    Drums And Why-Us?
                     A Trio of Things
                    Re: Michael Bland

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The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

Chalkhills is digested with Digest 3.5 (John Relph <relph@sgi.com>).

Yes you'll know when it's time to change gear.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: MARKROCKS@aol.com
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <971021085901_1622564421@emout05.mail.aol.com>
Subject: Reel by Reel by Buster

In #4-9, Harrison Sherwood wrote:

>> I'd pit Dave Gregory's 14 bars in "No Language in Our Lungs"
>> against any guitar solo you'd care to name for emotional power.

OK Harrison, I'll pit it against the guitar solo from _Reel By Reel_ .
For many reasons, that solo has always struck an incredible chord
with me.  (Pun intended.)  The skill level ranks a 10 to me, even
though I don't have a clue about playing guitar.  It is almost more
of a jazz solo than a traditional _rock_ solo, but it fits the feel of
the song perfectly.

I know this a bit of a cliche subject, but what other XTC guitar solos do
you other 'hillsters get off on?  Surely we have _burned_ the Books Are
Burning solo thread, so let's move on and argure (uh, I mean discuss
intelligently) oher favorite, or not so favorite, XTC guitar antics.  It has
to be more fun than discussing Brad Roberts hygene . . .well, at least to
the rest of us Amanda (just kidding).

Just as Simon mentioned, I was also foraging through some old demo
tapes.  Lap of Luxury, in my case.  Listening to Buster Gonads, it got
my wondering.  What the hell were they thinking?  I just cannot get
over the banality of those lyrics, no matter how much the sax playing
reminds of something out of a 1930's cartoon.

Mark Brown

XTC quote of the day: Don't let it bug ya, we just be having fun!

------------------------------

From: "KIMBERLY MARTIN" <KMAR0971@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>
Organization: Gainesville College, Univ Sys of GA
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:02:33 EST5EDT
Subject: the show must go on
Message-Id: <179B0067479@Mercury.GC.PeachNet.EDU>

Hello there...
School's been back in for about 5 weeks now and I think I haven't
even posted once since!
    First of all, I was just wondering, does anyone remember a guy
who used to post to this list named Doug Ellison?  Amanda, I know
that he used to trade tapes, etc, with you...I was just curious if
anyone has heard from him at all lately;  I haven't gotten any e-mail
from him since July or August; he hasn't sent me any dubs in the
mail, and when I tried calling him at home his phone had been
disconnected.  He came up back in June for the Atlanta chalkhills
gathering and I thought he looked rather thin, almost sickly...I am
just hoping that nothing bad has happened to him, it is really unlike
him to not have any correspondence with me whatsoever.  If anyone has
heard from him or knows of his whereabouts, please let me know!
    these recent flame wars are actually kind of amusing.  I take a
lot of honors classes and this list just reminds me of one of those
class discussions; intellectual-types seem to always feel their
opinions are, indeed, facts.  I have always had a good imagination,
and as a result of this  (and the fact that I'm a bit of a social
recluse) I have always created my own little world and that's where I
live.  In my little world, XTC is the greatest band around, although
I also happen to like some stuff completely on the OPPOSITE side of
the musical spectrum (can we say Insane Clown Posse anyone?  these
guys are brilliant, but that's probably only in MY little world).  In
my world, guitar solos would pop up much rarer in music, but then
again, I'm no musician; I'm always arguing with Deadheads and
phishheads; THEY say, oh, but even though this song is 30 minutes
long, listen to that sheer technical genius!  the talent!  I say,
listen to that overly-long, swollen, pompous and overblown muck; give
me the energy, power, and fun of Green Day ANY day!  so what if green
day knows about 3 chords, in MY world they are entertaining.  in MY
world Jerry Garcia makes me want to pull my hair out.  One of the
most horrible ordeals I have ever had to endure was sitting around a
room with a bunch of guitarists all trying to play along to a Dead CD
for hours on end (funny, it was the same song playing the whole time
too!).  I felt like I was at a circle jerk...
    The last time I posted I mentioned my little fanzine
"Juxtaposition."  About 5 folks responded and sent me some money!
yee-hoo!  So, once again it is SHAMELESS SELF PROMOTION time!  And
this time I even have a special demo/zine deal...
--For $2 ppd., you can have your very own copy of JUX, all with a
special 3 page section on XTC, plus many thought-provoking articles
on various subjects (all written by YOURS TRULY) such as creation vs.
evolution (both b.s. but both true), magic is real, a tribute to my
personal idol BILL HICKS, a short story about the REAL way the guy
who sued the makers of Lucky Strike cigarettes won, plus many other
rants, raves, opinions, and reviews (moxy fruvous, j. falkner, dBs,
blur, etc).  The second issue should be coming out around the
beginning of next year.
---for only $5 ppd., you can get your own copy of JUX, plus a (really
good) dub of Mr. Partridge's home demos (wipe that drool offa your
screen, new subscribers).  Yowza!  What a deeeeal!
    so WRITE ME already!  or send me some e-mail or sompthin'.  or
tell me why you're a wicked juggalo ninja.  I'm waaaay-ting!
MISS KIMBERLY L. MARTIN
P.O. Box 308
Gainesville, GA  30503
    hope to hear from all of ya soon!
    --kimberlina

------------------------------

Message-ID: <344CFFF2.31CF@virgin.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:18:10 +0100
From: "." <john.bartlett1@virgin.net>
Subject: Gobetweens

Hello chalkpeople
	James,a bit enigmatic at the end there;don't be obtuse ,let
everybody in on the Gobetweens,a band which in many ways are like
XTC,melodic,catchy in a strange way , and thought-provoking.Go on,share
them around.
	Cheers,
		John

------------------------------

Message-ID: <344CF0C7.821FAF10@MCI.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 14:13:27 -0400
From: Jeffrey Langr <Jeffrey.Langr@MCI.com>
Subject: good? bad?

> Are there any objective criteria for distinguishing between
> original and un- , bad faith and good, etc? I can easily
> imagine a Lynyrd Skynyrd fan judging "Me and the Wind"
> arty-farty and thus dishonest and, by definition, bad music.

Very good point, kekkone.  One thing that strikes me about
some of the posts here is that there's a lot of the attitude
that "we're better because XTC is intelligent, we're intelligent,
and so other not-so-intelligent stuff sucks."  If I had to pick,
I'd say Saturday Night Special is a much more honest song than
The Farting Monkeys, for example, not to mention it being a much
better tune.

Time to get off the holly up on poppy high horse... Mark's post
put it all quite well:

"No amount of clever quotes and ill used multi-syllabic words
will add weight to an argument - it merely makes you look pompous
and conceited."

I'm a bit appalled but mostly amused at all the shit flying about...
the one that got me the biggest laugh is the post where someone
so condescendingly "forgave" Amanda's postings due to her young
age.  Hsssss!

Given that XTC hasn't really put out anything in 5 years (or 7
years, if you are as Disappointed with Nonsensesuch as I was),
who can blame this digest for having fits once in a while?  It's
a credit to the strong appeal XTC has that the digest has managed
to stay together this long (and Mr. Relph of course), but it's also
a discredit that so much intolerance has reared its head.  Intelligent?
 The word "smartass" exists for a reason...

So now I get to add my negativity to the fire, go figure.  Personally
I'm thinking XTC is close to has-been status.  I'm camping out,
though, like a rabid media person outside Jimmy Stewart's house
while he prepares to die hoping that he will do one last great
thing before he dies, waiting myself for that next long awaited
overanticipated XTC album soon to be released hopefully before
the next millenium and vainfully hoping that somehow it will be
better than the last and better than whatever else is out there
currently attracting my attention...  Go XTC... rah!

10 years of overindulgence in my favorite group... then 7 years
of waiting for new product... the equation's starting to go the
wrong way.  There's other stuff out there, imagine that!

Jeff

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19971021200114.0069ea14@mail.clemson.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:01:14 -0400
From: Adam Tyner <ctyner@CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject: Peter Pumpkinhead ref. / Margaret Freeman

There's a reference to Peter Pumpkinhead in an interview with Barenaked
Ladies at http://musiccentral.msn.com/QAs/Article/130/1

I thought you'd all find that interesting.  :)

BTW, the clip of Andy playing Margaret Freeman with the Residents is now on
John Relph's great page...if anyone wants an MP3 of the entire song, I can
e-mail it to you.  Be warned, though...it's very unusual and nothing at all
like the XTC you're familiar with.  :)

-Adam

------------------------------

Message-Id: <344D57CA.7A634C2D@bowdoin.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:33:04 -0500
From: Ben Gott <bgott@bowdoin.edu>
Organization: Loquacious Music
Subject: New Album

Chunkers,

Josh "Young and Smart and Not-At-All Tasteless!" H-B wrote:

>There are fifteen of them; that means we'd have to cut six.

I'm sorry, Josh, but I think that "Your Dictionary" just has to stay
come hell or high water. It's one of the angriest songs Andy has ever
done, and (if produced correctly) could yield tons of college radio
play. Additionally, as much as I like "You and the Clouds...," I'd like
to see it "pimped up" (as my fourth graders say.) C'mon, Haydn! Get that
drum machine out, crank up a Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five
album, and go crazy!

I volunteer to be the XTC college radio rep for the East coast; with
whom will I be fighting?

I just picked up the latest bit of shine from the Sundays: "Static and
Silence." There are fewer standouts than on "Reading, Writing and
Arithmetic" (which is a real gem IMHO), but it still has its moments...

I'm still trying to find "Melt the Guns," Phish-style. I'll let you all
know when I find it.

Frankly, I find the guitar solos in "Books are Burning" to be completely
appropriate to a song that's lost its steam (flame retardant suit donned
now.) I love the song, but I don't find it interesting. I find "It's
Nearly Africa" interesting. I find "1000 Umbrellas" interesting.
("Cynical Days" is my favourite song on "Oranges and Lemons" -- because
of that, I suppose, I am in the minority.)

Finally, a word about the bickering. I have a solution: if anyone on
this list has a problem with anyone else on this list, send an e-mail to
*me*. I will forward them to my roommate (who will be briefed on the
Chalkhills in-fighting); we will then post them on the bulletin board on
my floor. That way, lots of people will see them, and it'll allow
Chalkers time to calm down. Then, John won't hate us, and he won't start
adding disclaimers to our e-mails like:

(Ben is an angry freak.  --John)

He didn't write that, but he might! It might come to that! Think about
it, and remember: the truth is in here.

Ben

XTC SONG OF THE DAY: "One of the Millions"
FOR YOUR INFORMATION... I almost missed the bus from Boston to Portland
today!

* ------------------------------------------ *
B e n   G o t t     ::         Bowdoin College
Telephone           ::          (207) 721-5142
Internet            :: http://www.wp.com/58596
...The more you ignore me, the closer I get...
* ------------------------------------------ *

------------------------------

Message-Id: <199710220041.RAA19307@mail.eskimo.com>
From: "Matt Keeley" <mrme@eskimo.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:35:02 +0000
Subject: Young Cleopatra: Two words. Nabokov indeed.

Hi...
> The strings of your instrument were strangling me.
So, are these random or hand picked?  Sometimes they reflect
interesting bits about the upcoming digest...

> From: AMANDA CARYL OWENS <ACOEA@jazz.ucc.uno.edu>
> I'm seeing some interesting little..anagrams, I think the word is the list.
> Let me add my own...
> Go hang a salami! I'm a lasagna hog!
> (Or are those called palindromes....I dunno, this ain't English class...and
> "ain't" ain't a word.)
Yeah, that's a palindrome.  Anagrams are re-arranged letters.  Which
brings to mind, my favourite:
Stifle is an anagram of itself.

> From: Gary.Dean@manor.ch
> BTW: The last issue was my first, is it always this pretentious?
Ah, usually the pretentiousness level is a bit down... anyway, it's
kind of hard to be pretentius when everyone seems to quote South Park
in the post, so here's my ObSPQ:
"Yeah, well if a woman was pushing me around, I'd say, 'HEY!  I want
you to stop dressing me up like a mailman and making me dance for you
while you go and smoke crack and have sex with men that I don't even
know on my dad's bed!"
"Cartman, what the hell are you saying?"
"I'm just saying you're a little wuss..."

> From: Jeff Cotter <j.cotter@unsw.edu.au>
> Friends and Chockstones,
> Why do I keep thinking that the line "and busses might skid on black ice"
> is missing from Senses on the Upsy Daisy Assortment?  I can't figure out
> why and where I remember hearing this line.  Any clues?
Ah, because it is... On UDA is the single version, which has that
line edited out (I'm still trying to figure out why... ah well), and
it doesn't have the cawing at the end (well, I can see why this is
gone, but the birds are cool...)... So far, the only place I've seen
with the full version is on English Settlement, no other comps.

Ah well, that's this world over...

Matt
     -=>Matt Keeley  mrme@eskimo.com<=-
Living Through | Visit my home page
Another        | http://www.eskimo.com/~mrme
Cuba -- XTC    | I used to be temporarily insane!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now I'm just stupid! -- Brak
(ICQ UIN: 1455267, Name: MrMe)
Yeah.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:33:15 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <199710220433.XAA28173@thor.inlink.com>
From: jims@inlink.com (Jim S)
Subject: A neccesary evil

>The last two albums cost around 250,000 pounds and they're trying to put
>this one together for nearer 100,000 (with money borrowed from their
>Japanese record company).

I guess we have to accept the fact that in order for the boys to get the
creative freedom they need, they got away from the big bad record
company. That is great, but the flip-side of that is that the budgets for
eah session will now be alot lower. Let's hope the quality doesn't
suffer. Somehow I think the boys will pull it off... : )

BTW,  I am VERY happy to hear that the 2-disc format is still the way they
want to go.
CAN'T WAIT!!!

  Jim S.     <jims@inlink.com>

Serious fan of:
*St. Louis Rams        *Michigan Wolverines          *"JAWS"
   *St. Louis Cardinals          *XTC           *MST3K

Movie buffs: Check out Jake Gove's excellent "JAWS" homepage.
Video, sound, reviews, trivia and more from the 1975 classic!
http://www.winternet.com/~tandj04/jaws.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:56:27 -0500 (CDT)
Message-Id: <199710220456.XAA03972@thor.inlink.com>
From: jims@inlink.com (Jim S)
Subject: NO!!! Don't cut these demos off the album!!!

>>There are 21 songs sheduled for the sessions and these are split between
>>those we almost all know (the Virgin-era demos) and the newer demos
>>(Playground, Wheel And The Maypole,etc.) that virtually no-one has heard.
>
>Hmmm. That means that we probably get around eight or nine of the "old
>demos" for this album. There are fifteen of them; that means we'd have
>to cut six. If it were my painful choice, I'd have to lose Knights
>in Shining Karma (interesting but *way* too slow and quiet), The Last
>Balloon (ditto), Some Lovely (my least favorite demo), Church of Women
>(fun but just a little too fluffy) Bumper Cars (we know about this one)
>and Your Dictionary (too vindictive.)

ACK! No no no! Church of Women has GOT to be on the album. I love it! It
sounds as if it could have been on any number of the past albums. Musically,
it fits in with some of Black Sea. Yet it also sounds like a Nonsuch
outtake. I REALLY hope this one makes it. I suspect it may not : (

I am also VERY fond of The Last Ballon (sounds like a companion piece to
Chalkhills and Children). And while I expect it won't make the cut, I am
really pulling for Your Dictionary.

> No matter what, I'd want to make sure
>that River of Orchids, You and The Clouds, I'd Like That, Easter Theatre,
>Dame Fortune, and I Can't Own Her were on the album.

Hmm. I like ALL of the demos. I admit that Some Lovely seems like it is
destined to remain a demo.  And I definitely agree on Easter Theatre and You
and the Clouds.  River of Orchids is very interesting and the craftsmanship
that went into it is obvious. Yet it seems a bit (just a bit, mind you...I
still like it muchly) impersonal, as if Andy were more concerned with the
music than the lyrics. Just my impression.  I still hope it does (and expect
it to) make the final cut.

>Joshua Hall-Bachner

  Jim S.     <jims@inlink.com>

Serious fan of:
*St. Louis Rams        *Michigan Wolverines          *"JAWS"
   *St. Louis Cardinals          *XTC           *MST3K

Movie buffs: Check out Jake Gove's excellent "JAWS" homepage.
Video, sound, reviews, trivia and more from the 1975 classic!
http://www.winternet.com/~tandj04/jaws.html

------------------------------

Message-Id: <l03020900b0731ba39b4a@[206.252.158.51]>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:15:03 -0400
From: aka Louise <rmckenzi@dti.net>
Subject: rags & bones

hill-dwellers,

re: demos -> album:

[gregory <mattone@bhip.infi.net> apparently wrote:]

>if I was taking any of this music into the studio, don't you know that
>ALL of it would get the once-over. Especially since it's been around two
>years since this stuff appeared - what new spin could I put on it now?

yeah - one would think so, wouldn't one? but apparently it's not like that
when you're as fabulously prolific as AP - the new stuff is always more
exciting than the old, because you yourself haven't had time to get inured
to its charms.

[Bob Prowse <bobprowse@mcmail.com> had written about 'Bumper Cars':]

>Well I for one don't agree that it doesn't belong on the album (ooh err,
>double negatives already!). Its *dead* catchy. Its a great little song.

i stand somewhere in the middle, as it turns out - i hated the song at
first, but it grew on me. i _certainly_ like it better than many of the
other songs of the known demos - the much-ballyhooed "I Can't Own Her" for
one. i think that song's actually downright AWFUL, but i know well how
alone i am on that point. or "Prince of Orange", for that matter - from the
irritating intro to melodramatic sobbing, i found it amusing the first few
times, but nothing to write home about musically. "My Brown Guitar (Some
Lovely)" on the other hand, i love. i agree though that it's too Paul
McCartneyesque to be on a regular XTC album, but i really can sense some
kind of Dukes (the _Lemon_ Dukes, perhaps?) album gathering in the wings,
obviously under yet another disguise. they should do an album that is the
_Dukes_ alter ego, so that when people say, "Don't you just love this album
by the Velour Draperies? but who are they?", those of us in the know can
say, "Why, they're the Dukes of Stratosphear under a different name."

>Got to get up for work in, oh shit, three hours!! (gulp!)

where on earth do you work that you have to be there at 2 am?! or am i
reading the timestamp wrong?

[from Simon Sleightholm <nonsuch@dircon.co.uk>, who is starting to gain on
Mitch F. as Chalkhills resident "Ear of God":]

>They don't have any pulbishing deal as yet - in fact they had to fight a
>>little with EMI to get the rights to the Virgin-era home demos (the
>Easter >Theatre, River Of Orchids era demo tape) so they could use them.

why don't they publish themselves? my record company is still only a
concept, but even i know this part - it only costs $200 to set up your own
publishing company, and you get 100% of the profits off of any use of your
songs. the next time Sandy Sandwich gives you a ring, tell him to send off
to ASCAP for further info, forms etc.

>know (the Virgin-era demos) and the newer demos (Playground, Wheel And The
>Maypole,etc.) that virtually no-one has heard (me included...). He didn't

YES!!! "Playground"!!! oh yes, baby. i'm telling you all - those songs are
amazingly _even better_ than the '94-'95 demos. just thinking about hearing
"Playground" again in my lifetime, let alone approx. eight months from now,
makes my mouth water. don't bother asking me for copies as i don't have one
myself, but i did get to listen to the magical mystery tape for three days
in a row.

>off the Chris Twomey book (Doomy Twomey they called him, apparently he was
>>a bit of a dour sort), but Twomey himself has been messed about by
>Omnibus

is *that* how you pronounce his name?! to rhyme with "Doomy"?! i would have
thought it was "Twoh-me". please enlighten me Sir Simon.

>The Mervyn Peake project Andy was working on was to have been an animated
>film of "Letters From A Lost Uncle" - he was working one of the animators

oh, man! it's like christmas around here!! Andy writing Peake songs - it
doesn't get much better than this. maybe they'll find another animator,
because that is such an amazing idea that it really shouldn't go to waste.

[the most excellent Catherine Sweeney <CatherineS@selectst.com> wrote
scathingly in re: Oasis:]

>1 XTC have made the mistake of not being complete bastards who blatantly
>copy everyone else and then call themselves original.
>2 None of them have gone out with Patsy 'my ambition is to be famous'
>Kensit.  3 None of them are mouthy or ill mannered enough to draw
>attention to themselves - that is, attention which relates more to their
>behaviour than their music
>4.  Rather than being seen at New Labour love fests, they put their
>politics in their lyrics.

i should have known i'd find other Oasis-haters on this list!! frankly, not
only are all their songs a cheap imitation of the same John Lennon song
that wasn't one of his best to begin with, but their craven attitude about
the fact that they obtain their vast amounts of loot by this ripping-off
which they have the nerve to call homage (while at the same time denying
that they are influenced by the Beatles at all) is inexcusable. Oasis to me
are a prime example of Harrison Sherwood's category of bad music done in
bad faith - they're scornful of their own audience because they know
they're buying such utter tripe, and what kind of foundation is that to
have on which to build a musical relationship? which is not an irrelevant
point at all IMO but rather one of the most basic things about music - the
fact that it's not just all about the musician, it's also about the
musician's relationship with the listener, in the flesh or on the record.

[Kevin Keeler <insanity@underworld.net> wrote:]

>then of course, Mark Stevenson lept [sic] in, and--while shouting loudly
>>and poining ["] and gesticulating like a baboon--declared: 'hey! some of
>>his wheels are off track!'  The problem being no one takes a spastic
>>baboon-no mater ["] how accurate they may be--seriously.

thank you for that image - like Roger from Oz's of AMANDA as the drooling
baby, i will treasure it always. both accurate and amusing. see my post on
Mark for more vitriol.

[Dave Stafford <dstaffor@tradesvc.com> apparently wrote:]

>What a baffling post from "The Kid" !

let me clear up your confusion here - the first two quotes (the brilliant
ones against the BAB solos) are by the inestimable Harrison Sherwood. the
rest of them (the oh-so-intelligent ones about geeks) are by Mark 'The Kid'
Stevenson. i was tempted to be mean to you about this mistake, but it was
actually not your fault - the Kid was childishly incompetent at leaving in
the attributions.

>The point is: the solos in Books Are Burning are concise, intelligent,
>musical and in no way shape or form do they resemble the drugged-up
>ramblings of the Ly*rD Sk*nD style bands.  THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP
>BETWEEN THE TWO.  For which I thank God.

the only relationship is this, which has been spelled out about eighteen
times now, but for the slow, i will explain it again - COMPARED TO OTHER
XTC GUITAR SOLOS, THE BAB ONES ARE BLOATED AND USELESS, ETC.; IN A WORD
'SKYNYRD-LIKE'.

>So, concept albums, the concept of peace and maturity are all to be
>condemned as musically undesirable.

i don't know how on earth you got to "peace and maturity" from "long guitar
solos." i think excessive guitar masturbating is not only IMmature, it's
not particularly peaceful, let alone much of a concept.

>And if we go back to the Beatles
>analogy that so many have made (re: Books Are Burning as compared to the
>end of Abbey Road) I would guess "The Kid" would have preferred that the
>Beatles stay stuck in a three chord rut, making endless versions of
>"Please Please Me" for fifteen years over ten albums.

again, if you were paying attention and actually reading the discussion
instead of quoting only the parts you disliked, you would have noticed that
the point that was made is that the Beatles' output of 'jam' songs
including guitar solos, is actually quite good. in fact no one has said
anything even remotely intimating that the Early Beatles are to be
preferred over the Late.

	oh well that's this post over -

		(and not a moment too soon, eh?)

			- brookes
                          aka Louise

ps - the other day i randomly had the phrase "there's chalk in them thar
hills!" running through my head.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <l03020902b0733653de6f@[206.252.158.51]>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:48:03 -0400
From: aka Louise <rmckenzi@dti.net>
Subject: kids & baboons

last time on 'as the Hills turn',

[Mark 'the Kid' Stevenson <MRS@OVUM.MHS.compuserve.com> obnoxiously wrote:]

>I feel I must reply to Harrison Sherwood. Poor, misguided, emotionally
>stunted Harrison. Sherwood, first and foremost: an argument is best stated
>in terms that are easy to understand. No amount of clever quotes and ill
>used multi-syllabic words will add weight to an argument - it merely makes
>you look pompous and conceited. When I'm not writing music for a living
>>I'm writing books and I think I can argue that the cleverest way to
>>communicate a message is to make it simple to understand (that is not to
>>trivialise the idea of course, but to communicate it elegantly). For
>>someone who seems to find 'noodling' guitar solos offensive your writing
>>style appears to be the literary equivalent of the Steve Vai's "Passion
>>and Warfare". Of course, all debate is good and the way you argue
>>obviously brings you some perverse pleasure, so what can I say?

[much pathetic blathering snipped:]

a) you're not exactly one to talk about being poor, stunted and emotionally
misguided - 'Kid'. i'm sorry Mark, but you've had this coming.

b) no, what using multi-syllabic and unusual words does for Harrison is
make him intelligent, which again is more than i can say for you. for such
a grandiloquent subject heading you merely wrote yet another collection of
barely coherent run-on sentences.

c) what books have you written? _Flaming for Kidz_? or perhaps
_AMANDA-worshiping 101_? i pity the person who buys one of your slim
volumes under the impression that they're actually getting something for
their money, on the evidence of what you've posted here. Harrison's posts
are not only brilliantly and amusingly written, but far more intellectually
substantial than yours, which only seem to serve the purpose of flaming
people who've had the nerve to disagree with you or AMANDA.

d) while obviously Harrison was exaggerating in order to make his point,
the heart of his argument is one that i couldn't agree more with - that
music manipulates the emotions whether people like that fact or not, and
that responsibility on the part of the artist is not something to be taken
lightly or used to try and get a response by sounding a hell of a lot like
something that once got a good response (read: nostalgia) when the song
doesn't deserve it. that a shoddy rip-off done in bad faith is bad compared
to the original or to a genuine song that at least doesn't try to slip one
over on the audience.

this is what drives me insane about 'net flame wars - idiots who insist
that you're not making sense because your argument is too complex for them
to understand, and when you simplify it in trying to spell it out for them,
promptly think they've caught you out in logical inconsistencies due to
their own missing the point. and THEN, having neither the grounds nor the
ability to argue on the same level, they resort to the old standby - free
speech. puh-*lease*. that's such a stupid thing to say that i'm not even
going to bother with it.

		yours,

			brookes

----------------------rmckenzi@dti.net-------------------------------
R. Brookes McKenzie                             aka Louise B. Minetti
    I'm no fan of you most of the time
    I'd just as soon be on, you know
    In fact I'd rather be on my own
    Waning in my own air                         - Palace, "King Me"
------------------http://www.dti.net/rmckenzi------------------------

------------------------------

Message-ID: <31510B652669CF11BA1D00805F38219E0320F0BB@DUB-04-MSG>
From: Peter Fitzpatrick <peterfit@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: re: UDA: No busses skidding on black ice?
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 03:35:36 -0700

I'm in the office right now so I can't check my copy of Upsy but if
memory serves (hahahah!!!) then the single-edit of the song had that
line omitted. So if they reverted to the singles master tapes for the
compilation then that would explain why that line is missing.

>>  From: Jeff Cotter <j.cotter@unsw.edu.au>
>>  Why do I keep thinking that the line "and busses might skid on black ice"
>>  is missing from Senses on the Upsy Daisy Assortment?  I can't figure out
>>  why and where I remember hearing this line.  Any clues?

-Peter

------------------------------

From: btm@ns1.mindmagic.com
Message-ID: <344DBC7D.678D@ns1.mindmagic.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:42:40 +0000
Subject: Wouldn't It Be Funny?

Tschalkgerz!
(no comment here...)

>Funny moment...watching the stupid kids show Andy and Colin (and WHERE was
GREGSY????) appeared on, what it Saturday Swapshop?? Anyhoo, I was watching
that this morning, and my father walked into the room. Andy was talking
about a video they'd just reviewed. I was engrossed in it when I hear my dad
"Who is the geek holding the horn?"  Should I have hit him????<

What horn?

****

Wouldn't it be funny, just to piss most of the Tschalkgies off, if the
lads included "Bumper Cars", just for the hell of it? Imagine the
threads next summer...hee-hee...

****

>Why do I keep thinking that the line "and busses might skid on black ice"
is missing from Senses on the Upsy Daisy Assortment?  I can't figure out why
and where I remember hearing this line.  Any clues?<

So, some 'brilliant' producer has gone and left this line out of the
Upsy-Daisy inclusion of "Senses"? I got this same feeling when I first
heard the "Senses" MIDI that is available on the Chalkhills site... a
line or two was missing music-wise from the MIDI... tsk-tsk-tsk...

****

>Hey XTiCians... (I'm going to keep calling us this. Tzschalgerz just
doesn't do it for me. ;)<

Good... that's my line, anyway! ;-)

****

Anybody remember the Ubermensch skit on SNL years ago? Or has this
already been mentioned in the thread...?

****

>No matter what, I'd want to make sure that River of Orchids, You and The
Clouds, I'd Like That, Easter Theatre, Dame Fortune, and I Can't Own Her
were on the album.<

Yeah, but I gotta disagree with ya on not including "Church of Women"...
if you all could hear what I would do to this tune in terms of adding
that ol' XTC studio magic, you would think twice about not putting on
there...

-Brian
Eating future and shitting past...

****

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 09:18:57 -0600 (CST)
From: AMANDA CARYL OWENS <ACOEA@jazz.ucc.uno.edu>
Subject: The HILLS are alive......
Message-id: <01IP3O6CFYIA8ZHUZX@jazz.ucc.uno.edu>

And now for some responses:

Bob-Believe me...if I ever ad the power of thought transference, that's not
how I would use it. (Hey, getting a bit of Cockney in there..."If I ever 'ad
the power.....")
And you brought up a GREAT POINT about the intellectualising that's been
going on about the Books Are Burning guitar solos. People are making
mountains out of molehills....

Jeff-I believe the reson why Upsy Daisy's Senses has the missing verse is
because the cd showcases the single versions of the songs. The same is done
on Fossil Fuel. I think they use the crappy "BBC Friendly" version of
Respectable Street, as well. Anyhoo, the single verion of Senses was
shortened in the interest of time, I guess.

Catherine-Oh but you are ON FIRE! You hit the nail right on the head. Let's
not forget the fact tha they need to hog the media spotlight in order to
garner attention, then turn into MTV-hating, award-show hating, radio-hating
Neanderthals a la Pearl Jam. And let's not forget they have to paint their
nails those cool shades of green, blue and yellow. Let's see....lose so much
weight you can see the outlines of their skulls....Dave's already taken care
of the shaving bit, and when they can't take it anymor they can just shoot
themselves and become mre popular than ever. Maybe then they'll have a
number 1 album!

Josh-He's BBBBAAAAAACCCCCCCKKKK! And I have but one thing to say to you....
"PIG & ELEPHANT DNA JUST WON'T SPLICE!"

And now, non-XTC stuff....
I bought the Verve's new cd "Urban Hymns" yesterday, along with a Bryan
Ferry/ Roxy Music compilation (and for nostalgic purposes, an old Dead or
Alive cd).  Anyhoo, RUN TO YOUR RECORD STORE AND BUY "URBAN HYMS". This
might be one of the best new cds to come out this year. "Bitter Sweet
Symphony" is an incredible song, but the rest of the album is just as lush
and verdant.  Bryan Ferry's stuff isn't bad either. Especially "More Than
This". After hearing the abyssmal 10,000 Maniacs version, it was refreshing
to hear Bryan's great voice.

Alright ladies and gents, need your help in identifying another song...I've
heard this one several times on the radio, but I can never catch who sings
it.  The chorus is "I get knocked down, but I get up again, you're
(they're?) never gonna keep me down.", or something like that. So..thinking
caps on, and GO!

Last night I told my manager that June and Pete were putting my letter in
the next LE, and he freaked out, b/c he's mentioned in it. He was like "Wow,
I'm actually going to be somebody." (I had to stifle myself from telling him
exactly what I think he is.....)

I was glancing over issue 38 of LE, and found a very interesting, but very
infuriating quote from Dave regarding Aimee Mann. (Fitting last name,
considering how much she looks like one.) Anyhoo, the piece first referred
to their little fling as a "caveat emptor". (Not good with language, anyone
care to translate?????), but said that he'd remained friends with the rest
of the band members. Anyhoo, this is the quote that pissed me off. "I'm
going to be working on some guitar for the guys who were in Aimee Mann's
band who have now been cast aside like everybody else."
SO what he's saying is that he and the rest of the band were Aimee's little
rag dolls to be carried around, shown to everyone, then tossed aside when
she was done with them. I can see it all now, on the last day of the tour.

"Great show guys. Oh by the way, since we're done, I won't be needing any of
you anymore, especially you. It was fun while it lasted. Bye!"

You do't play with someone's emotions like that. That's f***ing wrong. I
hope that's not how things really went, but if it is, she'd better never
cross my path....

Whoa. I'd better get to class so I can calm down....
Ciao,
Amanda
XTC song of the day-Snowman
non XTC-Bradn New Lover-Dead or Alive

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 01:49:05 -0700
Message-Id: <v01510101b072793c7889@[194.128.83.69]>
From: fisher@easynet.co.uk (Mark Fisher)
Subject: Tissue tigers

Rob: said

>P.S. As for "that which brings pleasure" being not necessarily good--if
>it brings pleasure and harms no one, I have no objections to calling it
>good.

Yes, but it's a silly argument. "All music is good" is only as true as "all
opinions are good". The two things cancel each other out.

In formulating an opinion about something, you are not helped by the
knowledge that the creator probably meant well by it. Such information
might make you sentimental, but it cannot affect the sound, shape or colour
of the finished article, and if you're being honest with yourself, it
shouldn't affect your reaction to it either.

****

On a different subject, I've been trying to play the A-minor riff from Dear
God on the guitar (downloaded from Chalkhills), and it strikes me that it's
such a simple yet striking sequence that it'd be surprising if it hadn't
been used before. Does anyone know if it has?

- Mark
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~fisher/

------------------------------

Message-Id: <2.2.32.19971022164116.006cfb10@popmail.dircon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 17:41:16 +0100
From: Simon Sleightholm <nonsuch@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: Drums And Why-Us?

From: "Matt Keeley" <mrme@eskimo.com>

>Ah, I'm just curious, what IS the middle eight?  I first heard the
>term when I bought the Rutles' "Archaeology" and I was curious to
>what it was... ah well...

It is that which, in your pagan colonial parlance, you would probably term
"the bridge" ;)

The "middle eight" is never in the middle of the song, and is never eight
bars long. Um, hence the name.

For all those drummers and friends of drummers who have been mailing me; I
really am in NO position to be recommending drummers to the band. I looked
up the phrase "stepping over the mark" in Brewer's Phrase And Fable and saw
the example "Hey, Andy, I found you a drummer." Underlined. In red.

Personally, I took the phrase "don't have a drummer yet" and his talk about
still negotiating the price to mean simply that they haven't managed to snag
any of the drummers on their _preferred_ list; the band, their producer and
the studio owner all have plenty of contacts in the industry, so it's not
like there are _NO_ drummers available to them. Consultation with other
people who has recently spoken to Andy (some more recently than me, too) has
backed this view up, and reading between the lines of what various people
have been told, the "official" position is that no outside help is needed at
this time.

*sigh*

And as for the "Books Are Burning" solo debate; even the best in music
journalism can usually only hope to awaken interest in a previously unheard
artist, it's _very_ rare for writing to actually _change_ one's appreciation
of music, or any art. (I don't remember how far back we got about the
"dancing about architecture" phrase, but I do know that Aldous Huxley
reckoned in the early 60s that "trying to prove the existence of God
scientifically is like trying to prove the world is round musically.") Most
people already know how they feel about that musical passage and so for most
of us the only interest to be gained from the debate is in the writing style
and arguments of the participants (great or grate, take your pick) and it
should always possible to enjoy good writing, even if the view expressed
isn't your own.  Heck, I love P.J. O'Rourke, even when he's ripping the
horns off my holy cows and shoving them up the ass of the English.

I suppose there's some twisted karma-style wodjacalit to the fact that on
the eve of the new album sessions there's a raging debate about the fade out
of the last track on the band's last album, but really...

Oh, and Neon - a UK film mag - has used the"Censors Working Overtime" tag
for the millionth time...

And I'm still _really_ sorry about that amp business...

Simon, who started this week _so_ happy... :(
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~nonsuch/bungalow.htm  (http://come.to./bungalow)
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
An XTC resource - "Saving it all up for you..."

------------------------------

Message-Id: <9710221733.AA10605@axtx0060.scent.mccaw.com>
From: steve mcallister <steve.mcallister-next@attws.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 97 12:33:35 -0500
Subject: A Trio of Things

well hello all.

few things-
1) so very nice to see a Flanders and Swann reference, I've been a
fan for many years and know of so few who know them.  I own the box
set, even.  So, big smiles to all those in the loop.
2) so very nice to hear Trio on the radio (and TV!) again.  Anyone
else remember the video that went with 'DA DA DA', that prompted the
buying of the vinal?  I still got my copy (and no, it's not for
sale).
3) and finally, I have something very cool I'm sure someone will
want.  It's one of the big cardboard "Nonsuch" in-store display
thingeys that happens to be signed by Andy.  This was a gift from my
bro a few years back, but I'm not much of a autograph hound (it was
bought at a charity auction from the San Diego radio station 91X).
I can't estimate any dollar value as there is none, but the coolest
trade will get it.

Steve "Always lurking, never posting" McAllister

------------------------------

Message-ID: <344E3E8B.47A7F979@nlm.nih.gov>
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 12:57:31 -0500
From: Don Lindbergh <dabl2@nlm.nih.gov>
Organization: National library of Medicine
Subject: Re: Michael Bland

> From: kraig olmstead <kraigo@netcommcorp.com>
>
..
>  I can tell you (me being a drummer) that the man is an absolute monster
> drummer.

Me too, and I concur.  The guy definately has chops out the wazoo, and
more importantly knows when NOT to play.

> I had never thought of XTC using someone like Michael for their drummer.

Me either, but I thought the same thing when I heard Paul Westerberg's
last solo record, and I was impressed with his ability to sound
'transparent'.  Really tasteful work.  I think he and XTC would be a
good match.

--Don
dabl2@nlm.nih.gov

------------------------------

End of Chalkhills Digest #4-12
******************************

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