Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #3-43

          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 3, Number 43

                Tuesday, 26 November 1996

Today's Topics:

                     Musing in London
              How to get something to Colin
                       RE: Vitriol
                       Is That All?
         Well, I still have a few pals left.....
                Last post for the day.....
                      thanks to....
           politics/song lengths/Hitchcock/Joel
                  Any statistic on XTC?
    Fuzzboxes, Xenophobes, and Sticking Up For Amanda
                        Re: Sundry
The flames are getting higher (lyrics to bad metal song or issue 3-41?) Hmmm...
                 Ain't talkin' 'bout love
                    All Edward Leered
                     Sting For a Day
                     defending AMANDA
                      Day In Day Out
            political songs/alternative/loud!
               Just Looking For Footprints


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We made little Graham promise us he'd be a good boy.


From: McGREGOC <>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 19:46:27 +00
Subject: Musing in London
Message-ID: <>


I've just come to muse.
Todd stated:
<but Andy and Colin always sing the songs they write, okay?>

Really?  I've been wondering for awhile if they had ever "swapped"
songs.  I just wonder if they ever thought "hey, you would fit this
I wonder, if they were to ever swap songs what would the songs be?

Which song does anyone think Colin would sing better( well thats not
a good word) rather would sing well of Andy's bunch and Which of Colin's
would you like Andy to sing?

I really haven't given this much thought myself as to which songs but I
would be interested to know what you people think?



Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:17:01 -0500
Message-Id: <>
From: "Michael D. Myers" <>
Subject: How to get something to Colin

Fellow Chalkhillians;

I need some advice about how to mail something to Colin.  I recently read a
very good book lately that has a very interesting anti-war thread running
through it, and thought that he would like it (being that he seems to write
great antiwar songs and also loves to read, if reports are accurate).

I'm not sure if I can just address it to : "Colin Moulding, famous bassist
for XTC, Swindon, England", but that doesn't sound real promising.  Does
anyone have an address for their management company, or know of another way
to address a package?

Thanks for any help,  Mike


Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 12:00:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <>
Subject: RE: Vitriol

Hello all,

I really don't like to get into arguments but I must say that some of the
barbs flying between some members of this mailing list have become in-
creasingly biting and acerbic.
I just want to suggest an approach, culled from my many years as a counselor
(now in the past, however). My point is that if people disagree on this
list, please keep your attacks focused on the arguments posted, not the
people behind them. I was somewhat dismayed at the level of vitriol
discharged towards Amanda, full of personal attacks, and my point is that
nobody needs to stoop down to the level of personal attacks. I think we
are all smart enough to establish a healthy level of argument but when the
attacks become personal the healthier aspects of a discussion end and
peolple tend to get defensive. So, I beg of you to keep personal attacks
out of this mailing list. Lets remember we are here because we like XTC and
we are not going to change people in this forum, yet we may educate.


Message-Id: <>
From: "Jeff Smelser" <>
Organization: Access Tucson
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 10:02:26 -0700
Subject: Is That All?

>I hope you have the $10,000 to shell out for said concert.

Is that all?  I think Chalkhillians alone could scrape that together.

>or did you expect XTC to do it out of the goodness of their hearts?

No but, sometimes bands look for venues or opportunities with which
they can try out some of their NEW material.  I just wanted to go on
record as offering what I have available.
Jeff Smelser
Video Engineer
Access Tucson


Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:06:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Well, I still have a few pals left.....
Message-id: <>

Thanks again James for the personal words of encouragement and picture being

Back to the old topic of embarrasing videos.....Ball and Chain is looking
more and more daft everytime I see it. I'm starting to get used to Funk Pop
a Roll, but watching Andy unclothed and spitting still turns my stomach just
a tad.

Anyone who has Are You Receiving Me on it just me or does Barry
look like he doesn't want to be there at all?



Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:38:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Last post for the day.....
Message-id: <>

I'll call out a big huge, sloppy, nasty ENOUGH ALREADY!

God, I said I was sorry for what I said political wise. If I offended, I
apologise and offer and olive branch. Take it if you like. Just stop coming
down on my for Christ's Holy Sake!

When it all comes down to it, who cares where we live. We all love the Lads
and the great music they've brought to us for for almost 20 years. Some of
us have been there from the beginning with the release of White
Music. Others have come along more recently, like myself. Their songs have
touched all of us differently. For me it's the fact that Andy is the most
intelligent and witty craftsman in music today. Not any particular genre of
music, just MUSIC. His songs have lifted me in tough times and brought an
exuberance to me in dull times. Same goes for Colin and his songs. There is
no other band like them, and long after they've left the earth some years
down the road, there will still be no other band like them.

I have personally emailed John Hackney twice. I haven't received a response
to my second email, but I suspect that he will take my olive branch offering
and throw it back in my fae. Oh well. His loss.

I am not the childish bitch he made me out to be. At one point or another I
have been a little bit of both, but that was then, this is now. I am sick of
having to reevaluate myself whenever someone comes along and tries to play
the shrink and assess (spelling?) my character when they don't know me. I
realise that the whole politics thing I did was pretty much the same, so we
won't get into that.

I've made some pretty cool friends on this list, some of whom I keep in
touch with on a daily basis, some of whom I talk to every now and
then. Sometimes I've asked friends to sort of play online counselor to me
b/c my parents could care less. (Yeah I know, boo hoo, poor little Amanda)
But I consider myself closer to some of you than to me best friend over
here. (Sad, isn't it?)

To close another long, rambling posting, I guess I'll stick to this list for
awhile longer and stick to what Eddie Vedder said..."Hate your family, hate
your friends, living is the best revenge".....or is that too harsh?

and grease

PS-To whoever wretched at my response...all I can say to that is I hope you
missed the toilet and soiled the floor.


Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 18:24:21 -0600 (UTC -06:00)
Subject: thanks to....
Message-id: <01IC8F9WNZG20119CD@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU>

Tom Cole <>
...the music mailing lists I subscribe to: Chalkhills, Richard Thompson,
Camper Van Beethoven,...

Man, talking about having no new albums to discuss!  how long have
they been defunct?  Just checked the copyright on their last album,
_Key Lime Pie_ It's been 7 years now.  There is a local band here in
Lawrence, KS that reminds me of Camper, called Lou's Revenge.  I keep
slapping myself for not getting out to a show.  I was on the way to
see them play a couple weeks ago and the hood on my girlfriends car
flew open as we were driving down a busy street!  Luckily, we could
see through the little rectangles that are punched out for air flow,
and we were able to safely pull off the road.  I didn't make it to the
show though.

Also, thanks to Miles Coleman for picking up the box set for me!  I'm
eagerly awaiting its arrival.  I'm especially excited to hear Go2
because of all the talk surrounding this album lately.  It's the only
album that I have not heard in its entirety.  I also don't own BS, but
I know all of the songs on it b/c I borrowed it from a friend for
about 2 months a while back.(hi Wes!)  So the box set worked out
perfecly for me - I'll only have a duplicate copy of D&W, and a
complete collection now!

I *always* feel compelled to turn up Books are Burning when it comes
on.  Oh yeah, also the organ at the end of Ugly Underneath, which is
*absolutely beautiful*.  Too bad Bungalow is thrown in between these
two tracks.  Woah, I don't even want to go there!  We do NOT need a
third Bungalow debate in 6 months.  It's an OK song, just not up to
calibur with the other two.



Message-Id: <>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 12:44:10 -0700
From: DeWitt Henderson <>
Subject: politics/song lengths/Hitchcock/Joel

Jeff Smith, Mark Cuevas, and especially JOHN HACKNEY, RIGHT ON with your
political comments!!!  (J. Hackney - based on your comments, I'd really
recommend "How Much is Enough?" by Alan Durning, on W.W. Norton).  Re:
goings-on here being "none of their business" (foreigners) - I'll just say
this: most Native Americans have as some part of their religious beliefs (if
I'm wrong, I apologize in advance) that 'everything is connected'.  And that
applies to everything from air/water pollution to people buying mahogony
furniture to nuclear waste.  Few things happen in a vacuum these days.  And
as many have said, what WE do often affects the whole world, often in
not-so-desirable ways.

Whoever had someone at work (?) make the comments about "Towers of London":
what an ignorant *#&#&$%!!!  And someone else's comment - that this song
(and several others) were TOO LONG?!?!  You blaspheme!  No way! - in fact,
the LP version of TOL is better than the single version (see "the Compact

Ben Gott - try "Perspex Island" for a more "accesible" intro to
Mr. Hitchcock.

Billy Joel - OK, I admit it too - I especially was a fan in the 70's & early
80's, and I still am to some degree.
* ----------------------------------
| DeWitt Henderson               |
| Los Alamos National Laboratory |
| CIC-13   MS P223               |
| Los Alamos, NM 87544           |
| 505/665-0720                   |
* ----------------------------------


Message-Id: <>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:59:34 +0100
Subject: Any statistic on XTC?

Dear Chalkheads,
I subscribed this M.L. just a couple of weeks ago but, like the most
of you, I am an old XTC addict, even if in my town it is nearly impossible
to find their records!! I used to play guitar and sing their song in a rock
band and I can tell you that all young people (which had never heard of
XTC before) reacted very, very well at our concerts, in the South of Italy.
This happened expecially when we played songs from the first three
albums, which I think are the most suitable for a very first 'live' impact
with FAB THREE' genius. All guys started immediately to dance and
have real fun! This is why I do not really understand the behaviour of
Virgin Rec. in the last 5-6 years: it seems nobody 'up there' believes
anymore in the power of originality and personality in pop music, when
instead I thing the new generations would appreciate it immediately.
OK, end of tears. I got a question for you guys: is there any statistic
about the number of XTC fans all over the world and their distribution
in the different countries? Someone told me major labels usually do
such things. I mean, how many are we? Did someone ever tried to
count us? And how many in the USA, how many in the UK, etc?
If there are no statistics, what's your opinion?
-  E-mail answers to me. I'll put them on the list in a concise form. T.Y.

            ;-)       RIO, a musician from Bari (Italy)       ;-)
          P.S. Sorry for mistakes; my english is what it is...


Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:47:14 GMT
Message-Id: <>
From: jes <>
Subject: Fuzzboxes, Xenophobes, and Sticking Up For Amanda

Now, I'm going to get into a lot of trouble here because this is a message
with NO XTC content, but I got a little riled when I read the nasty
collection of words from John M. Hackney, who is probably a tenured
professor at the University of Wisconsin, my guess is he's a philosophy or
sociology specialist, disguised as a Botanist, because that is where all the
good bedwetting, bleeding heart, booger eating, tree hugging, river licking
fools go.  He took AMANDA (with all caps) to task over the question of

After he has the strange sense of humor to call Reagan And Bush "evil"
(which is the Red Flag to let you know that you are dealing with a Dogmatic
Dispenser of Democratic Diddlypoop... call 'em Evil and never, EVER explain
using truth or logic, just lies, emotion, and opinion), he then goes into a
chest thumping diatribe about how Good it is that other countries express
their disgust for American Foreign Policy.  Another classic example of how
to spot a Democrat:  Reagan was EVIL, and America Sucks.

Y'know, I probably would agree with him except for the fact that these
foreign countries, whether with or without the approval of their populace,
are MORE than happy to accept a ridiculous amount of American Foreign AID,
mostly in the form of DOLLARS.  As a Libertarian, I find it completely and
totally foolish and offensive to give money to foreign countries, but if we
are GOING to, then I can be even MORE offended when these twits who TAKE my
money tell me what a pig I am when they TAKE it.

Pardon my French, but fuck these idiots.

Xenophobic?  Me?  Guilty.  If America worked like it was SUPPOSED to, I
would defy anyone to suggest that there is a finer country.  But, right now,
it works very, very badly and needs some revolution.  AT THE POLLS.  But, of
course, we live in a country where 50% of the voters are too busy watching
Roseanne reruns and can't get off their fat asses to go vote.

Of course, since he cannot argue with AMANDA using Logic, he resorts to
insults, calling her a Mallrat, accusing her of possessing "limited
intellect," and a "limited attention span."  and then he insults Sheryl
Crow, who happens to make some mighty fine pop music.

did someone wet on your barbecue, Mr. Hackney?

I guess he must have allowed the Skinny Puppy CD to run out.  Oh well.  So
it goes.

>Jeff Smelser asked:
>Does anyone know of an XTC song where either guitar player uses a
>fuzz box?  I can't think of any.

I am betting that the final lead guitar line with the vocal in Sgt. Rock was
done on a fuzz box.  And there is a part of "Rocket From A Bottle" that
seems chunky enough to either be a Marshall at 11 or a fuzzybox.


Message-Id: <v01540b04aebfa9fcb21c@[]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 13:13:05 -0700
From: (E.B.)
Subject: Re: Sundry

>From: (Michael Kearns)
>I thought I would do my own comparison of the similar riffs in question in
>Hey Bulldog
>and Washaway... here's what I get. Both are 'linear alteration'
>progressions, and as far as I know progressions are not subject to
>copyright. It is quite possible Colin was influenced by Hey Bulldog, but I
>think to seriously suggest he plagiarized Lennon is out of line. [Etc.]

Anyway, I always figured Hey Bulldog was kinda influenced by the James Bond
theme, no? It's that chromatic thing....

>From someone:
>Have you ever read "The Worst Rock 'n' Roll Records of All Time"?  It's
>a hilarious book written by two [former] Rolling Stone writers.  In
>addition to the 50 worst singles and 50 worst albums, there's the "Worst
>Rock 'n' Rollers" section, in which Billy Joel is named the winner.  They
>do a good job of explaining why.  Check it out.

I looked at that book once. I wasn't too impressed. Basically, it didn't
seem to be the 50 "worst singles/albums," but the 50 "worst singles/albums
by artists we all like who have made other really good records." I mean, I
remember Costello's Goodbye Cruel World being listed as one of the very
worst records of all time. Come on, gimme a break. While it certainly could
be Costello's worst album, it's hardly one of the world's all-time
stinkers. I can't remember any other examples to cite, but there were
definitely others. To sum up, I wasn't impressed. However, if that was the
book which listed Chuck Berry's "My Ding-A-Ling" as the worst song ever,
then I gotta award them points for that view.  ;)


>Okay, I'll admit. I cry my eyes out everytime I hear the national anthem.

OK, I am now officially scared of Amanda.



Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:21:19 -0500
Message-ID: <>
Subject: The flames are getting higher (lyrics to bad metal song or issue 3-41?) Hmmm...

Hi! You know, I almost forgot to read the 3-41 issue. It might've been better
if I hadn't. Some people were in a rather sour mood. I hope this doesn't
become a trend.

To the person who wondered why most list members liked "mainstream radio"
like The Sugarplastic and The Cardigans: Neither of these groups recieve any
kind of airplay that could be remotely termed "mainstream". The same thing
goes for list favorites Ben Folds Five, Eric Matthews, Jason Falkner, Yazbek,
Squeeze, Finn, They Might Be Giants and many of the others. These groups are
extremely lucky if they can move more than 100,000 units of their albums.
They are *not* mainstream radio material. They're too idiosyncratic.

XTC sighting: Well, during one of the the Baltimore-Cleveland baseball
playoff series games last month, Nigel Wilson of the Indians came up to bat
and what should come over the public-address system? "Making Plans For
Nigel"! I doubt this happens at other ballparks, though, since Nigel isn't a
common name here in the States.

>For the most part, yes, but eventually they'd have to tour to support their
>album, and this is where it would all fall apart.

Unless you're a new band that hasn't developed a loyal fan base yet, touring
is a rather ineffective way to significantly boost album sales. The people
who would shell out thirty bucks for an XTC concert would be the fans who had
already purchased the album being promoted. Considering XTC achieved their
greatest success in the States with Skylarking and Oranges and Lemons (two
albums they did not tour behind), launching a tour would not be integral to
achieving mainstream success. Radio, by and large, determines who becomes a
star (with exception of Phish and a few others).

Dave O'Connell
York PA


Message-Id: <>
From: Fritz Stolzenbach/HNS <>
Date: 25 Nov 96 16:43:25 EST
Subject: Ain't talkin' 'bout love

With regard to the following:

><Speaking of subject matter, as Dave supplied us with the first two:
>Pink Thing by XTC
>He's My Best Friend by Jellyfish
>Rosie by Jackson Browne...

>uhh... forget I even mentioned it (blush).

> also:
>If Stuart Could Talk- The Dickies
>You're My Best Friend And My Worst Enemy-The Blackjacks

...I remember being told sometime in the late 70s by a fellow pimply-faced
adolescent that ", you know, like, whenever KISS says the word 'love'
in their songs, that, you know, means, you know, like, their d*ck,
man... <much conspiratorial laughter>"

If that were true, I suppose you'd have to include "Love Gun," "Plaster
Caster," and about 500 other KISS songs (though admittedly they're not songs
written *to* their johnsons, just *about* them).  And, yes, this is a very
silly string.

With Much Love,
(sorry -- couldn't resist)



Message-Id: <>
From: "Simon Knight" <>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 07:44:53 +0000
Subject: All Edward Leered

Sorry if this has been brought up before.  I'm showing my low-brow
ignorance here:

I was listening to "Then she appeared" this morning and once again
was wondering who Edward Lear is.  Andy mentioned him in an
interview circa O&L and i was wondering if anyone would care to
enlighten me / give me some titles for when i next go to the library.


Message-Id: <v01550100aebfccfa5e06@[]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:55:53 -0600
From: (Mike Mills)
Subject: Sting For a Day

From AUSTIN, TEXAS, comes this from Jason Garcia:

The title of my post has nothing to do with anything contained
therein, I just thought it was funny.

>Speaking of Nick Heyward, when I heard Haircut 100's "Love Plus One"
>for the first time, my first thought was "Oh God, XTC's sold out."

Hey, I *LIKE* "Love Plus One".

Re: Washaway:  Influenced or PLAGIARIZED? (Michael Kearns)
What he said.

Re: La Sugarplastic
>I think the XTC influence is only prominent on certain songs, like
>"Polly Brown" and "Another Myself."

And let's not forget "Sheep", the beginning of which is basically "Roads
Girdle The Globe".

>While we're on the subject, has anyone else noticed how "Dear God"
>resembles the Lovin Spoonful's "Summer in the City"?


The [wrongly] much-maligned AMANDA said:
>Enough of this. Satan was evil. Hitler was evil. Mussolini was evil. Ted
>Bundy was evil. Charles Manson=evil. Reagan and Bush......on that level, I
>don't think so.

She's right, you know.  People have been making a bunch of absolute
statements lately just to create an argument. [That was probably
one of them.  Sorry.] Personally, I've been noticing a little wee bit of
immaturity sneaking in to the posts here, and Mr. Botany from Fuck U. made
the ironic comment "What are you, in third grade"?  Unfortunately for him,
he managed to make a big show of his mental age.

Hmm.  I'm not really in the mood to discuss XTC @ the moment. Except to
say that I heard "Earn Enough For Us" done live here in Austin by
Javelin Boot.  Not bad.  They also did a note-for-note cover of "You
Gotta Fight For Your Right To Party".  What a song.  Um, but I digress...

ANOTHER paper.  This'll be my last for a while...



Message-Id: <v01540b02aebfe4e7247c@[]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:19:08 -0600
From: (Miss Piggy)
Subject: defending AMANDA

HI guys.

I thought about doing this privately, but since *someone* on this list
decided that public humiliation was ok, then I thought maybe a little
public defense was appropriate.  So sue me.


>I get back from my two month old nephew having to be hospitalised over the
>weekend with a lun infection to find that all of the sudden I'm the Bitch
>From Hell mallrat of America just because I voiced my political views, which
>is my GODDAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I have to say that I didn't necessarily agree with everything Amanda
said in her first post, but I am truly apalled by Mr. Botany
who-ever-you-are's very insulting, public flame.  It's fine if people on
this list disagree - we can't all like everyting, and it makes it
interesting.  But personal attacks, especially on people you've never met,
and based on political views, are completely inappropriate.  Why did you
feel it was necessary to demean her intelligence based on her views - are
you saying that all people with whom you do not agree are therefore stupid?
This was what I got out of your mega-flame.  Now while political
discussions may be interesting and occasionally pertain to XTC, personal
savagery is not, and does not belong here.

Don't insult people you don't know, lest ye be on the receiving end someday.

And I can't help thinking that the non-Americans on this list must be
terribly bored with all this political crap.  I know I am, and I'm a US

That's *my* opinion, and if you don't like it, well, tough.

And Amanda, I hope you get some rest, drink plenty of fluids so your throat
gets better.  And I wish your nephew a speedy recovery.

Happy Thanksgiving!
(only in the US would we have a holidy where the object is to eat as much
as you possibly can while watching football.)


I'm a tetris-playin' fool


Message-Id: <v03007800aebfc6be37df@[]>
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:11:39 -0500
From: "David H. Schwab" <>
Subject: Re:Drums&Sugar

Patrick Adamek asked:

>    Does anyone else own a copy of "drums and wires" in which the 3rd
>song "life begins at the hop" is replaced by another song (the title I
>do not know...but might be "day in, day out" or "friday is heaven")?
>The song list states that it is in fact "Life begins..," but that song
>appears nowhere on my CD...

and then:
>This is my official apology for committing the embarrasing mistake of
>asking a question on Chalkhills without consulting the FAQ\Discography
>first.  Disregard my questions regarding the Mutant CD of Drums and
>Wires.  As explained in the Chalkhills Discography:
>CD, Virgin UK, CDV 2129 (610 490-217), 1989. front cover
>          has ``Compact Price'' stripe, back cover same as
>          original LP. track listing incorrect, does not
>          include Life Begins at the Hop as listed. reissue.
>Peace  Patrick

I read the FAQ/Dicography, but it still always seemed odd that Nigel, the
one song that most people that never heard of XTC know, was left off the
albums.  As far as the old vinyl goes this is what I have:
I had the original US LP on Virgin, and of course it had both "hop" and
"nigel".  Someone made off with my LP (and the bonus single), and it was
out of print for a while.  I picked up a new copy (on Virgin/Epic) and
"nigel" was missing, but was not replaced by anything.  Also it didn't have
the lyrics on the inner sleeve.  Then Geffin picked up the album and their
version has "nigel" but no "hop", but included the song "day in day out".
I had to buy both just to get all the tracks!  I also picked up the same
D&W CD, an import BTW, and was shocked to find the song "hop".  Now of
course the (cheeper) US Geffin version has all the songs! Oh well.

The only reason I'm writing all this is I always wondered why these two
songs, clearly popular ones, got this treatment.  Does any one know?

EB wrote:

>I know Ben Eshbach, the songwriter/leader of the Sugarplastic. He doesn't
>deny his adoration of XTC, but he also indeed will swoon equally about the
>Kinks, Eno (check the "King's Lead Hat" piano on "Montebello") and Pixies.

Don't get me wrong, I _like_ this band!  I have no idea what disc I first
heard, but I know it was a "promo only" copy.  This guy I was working with
always had stuff no one ever heard of.  The little I heard sounded good,
and made me think of D&W/BS/ES XTC, which is my favorite period of XTC
music (I like the crunchy stuff best!).  I thought like, "well XTC don't
really do that stuff any more, so why not have some other band do it".  I
liked what I heard (and this was at work, so I only heard a few seconds of
a few songs) enough to remember their name.  I have not yet found any of
their disks though.  I also love the Pixies' Dolittle, since it reminded me
of that same type of XTC thing. (Mike Mills) said:
>Hey, I *LIKE* George Harrison!  (I'm also a big R.E.M. and TMBG fan.)
>Is that weird?  Like you, I enjoy scattered songs from his '70's days,and
>I think Cloud Nine is a very good album.  In particular, "When We Was Fab".
>That arrangement is EXCELLENT!  And it's the only song on the record that
>lacks the characteristic bad Jeff Lynne snare drum sound.

I always thought George wrote some of the best Beatles songs (Savoy
Truffle!).  Too bad Jeff Lynne got to produce the "new" Beatle songs.  I
remember hearing Free as a Bird on the radio, and someone not knowing what
it was said "who is this? ELO?".

PS with a name like that, I think you would have to like R.E.M.!


David H. Schwab
SGD Lutherie,
"Custom Basses and Guitars"
300 Observer Hwy. 4th FL
Hoboken, NJ 07030


Message-ID: <>
From: Paul Haines <>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 12:39:14 +1100
Subject: Day In Day Out


 Re Quinn:
     Great comeback from all the umbilical shit!!

>    Does anyone else own a copy of "drums and wires" in which the 3rd
>song "life begins at the hop" is replaced by another song (the title I
>do not know...but might be "day in, day out" or "friday is heaven")?

'Day In Day Out' my friend.I have this cd, in fact it was the very first
cd I ever bought.  Lots of copies were out there initially (in New
Zealand from 1986-90 anyway) but I think they (ie people who make the cd
not the music) have done something different now.

Haines, kiwi in Oz (one of the millions)


Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:05:15 +1300 (NZDT)
Message-Id: <v01540b00aec0b6f345e6@[]>
From: (James Dignan)
Subject: political songs/alternative/loud!

>Political stumping: An interesting song on this notion of the U.S. as
>whatever should hear, or rehear, "Evil Empire" by Joe Jackson. Very good
>song, and the lyrics describe a particular nation. I think it came out in
>'88 or so, and when I heard it, I thought "Ah! The Soviets!" Upon further
>hearing, I am not so sure. Any thoughts on this song?

agreed. Joe's very clever like that - turns what you thought the song was
about right around. "It's different for girls" is like that. The opposite
of what you think the song is about is what the song is *really* about. And
of course, the killer line (from the same album, IIRC) "Geraldine and John
- see the happy couple, so inseparable. And the beat goes on, and for
better or for worse, they are married (but of course not to each other...)"

As for good old political US bashing, I have to applaud the US for making
one of the strongest anti-US protest songs into one of their biggest ever
hits - I refer of course to Brooooos Springsteen's "Born in the USA"...

BTW - if anyone wants to hear the perfectly constructed protest song, then
I can recommend you listen to Aztec Camera and Mick Jones's awesome if
unlikely "Good Morning Britain". Even XTC rarely come up with a song that

>As far as I'm concerned, there is no such thing as alternative music
>anymore. It died when REM hit big with Losing My Religion.

Amanda, you need to sit down and listen to some more New Zealand music! :)


Deliver Us from the Elements. Drown with XTC in the ending of the song at
100 decibels...

Travels in Nihilon. The drums, the drums! (They made me deaf you know...)

Complicated Game. It's justacompla-acompla-acomplaca-aca-aca-aca...

Train running low... The clanks, the steam - a King class 4-6-0 hauling the
Cornish Riviera Express through your very own living room!

Paper and Iron. The pounding of the drudgery of daily life. Can Andy earn
enough for us?



Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:07:08 +1300 (NZDT)
Message-Id: <v01540b01aec0b7655f73@[]>
From: (James Dignan)
Subject: loud/Sting/Belew

#> From: Dave <>
#> i also really like BOOKS ARE BURNING. LISTEN to those guitar solos, over
and over, really LOUD.

believe it or not, when this came out I thought "oh no! That'll be their
last song - they're announcing to us all with this that they're breaking
up!" It had the same sort of air of finality, of "so long and thanks" that
the last few minutes of Abbey Road had.

Re: Sting. Yeah, sure he gets pompous at times, and he gets pretty dodgy
lyrically. His great gift is that he is primarily a bass player. His songs
are nuilt around the bass in such a way that they seem catchier than they
really are. Um, perhaps I'd better explain that. If a guitarist had written
"Fortress around your heart" or "We work the black seam" (Sting's best 2
solo songs, IMHO), then there would have been a distinct, definite chord
structure throughout the songs, and the catchiness of the most melodic
piece would have been lost in the whole. However, they stand out in sharp
contrast to the chordless structure that surrounds them in Sting's
compositions. The same is true with the biggest hits from the Police. Try
humming the verse from Roxanne, or De dododo de dadada (perhaps their most
sensible lyric?:) and you'll see what I mean. In fact, can anyone even
*remember* the verse from De doo...? And if you do (do), do you think it
sounds suspiciously like "Making Plans for Nigel"?

BTW: the new album from the Muttonbirds has a track on it called "Ten feet
tall". Before you ask - no, it's a different song.

>>[Here] is the second album of [Adrian Belew's] I've bought and listened
>>to [_Young
>>Lions_ being the first], so am I in for a treat when I build up his back
>>catalogue? Can anyone recommend his bestest? Thanks...

>Well, in my opinion, you have the two worst ones! :)

>My favorite is Twang Bar King (out of print, I believe), followed by Lone
>Rhino (also out of print, I believe). Happy hunting. For pure pop, Mr.
>Music Head might be the one to go with (POSSIBLY out of print??). Also,
>his new one, Op Zop Too Wah, is his best album in years. It's a bit
>erratic (lots of tiny snippets of songs), but it brings back his original
>guitar histrionics, which really excite me. I enjoy Belew much more when
>he's wearing his Hendrix hat rather than his McCartney/Emitt Rhodes hat,
>myself. Many of his later lyrics come off awfully soft and saccharine to
>me. Give me guitar squalls! ;)

Heh! It had to happen didn't it! I'd suggest that you go for the new one,
Op Zop Too Wah, or (if you can find it) the sadly out of print Inner
Revolution. Avoid Twang Bar King, which is an unfortunate sideways move
(see? I told you it had to happen!). Unfortunately, the first three solo
albums (Rhino, King and Desire Caught by the Tail) don't exist on CD, and
never have AFAIK, but a "best of" of them called "Desire of the Rhino King"
does. It's also definitely worth checking out his work with King Crimson,
especially Thrak.


Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:24:22 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <>
From: (Michael Kearns)
Subject: Just Looking For Footprints

John Yuelkenbeck writes:

>Does anybody else think the music theorists don't have a clue as to what
>they are talking about, but are just being pedantic to impress us?

Yuk! I hate that word 'pedantic'. :-)  HEY! I do too have a clue, and
sometimes two... but that's all they are. Clues. Pieces of the puzzle. I
hope my pendantic, often corrective ramblings are tempered somewhat; I
usually try to convey my thoughts and feelings about what the musical
devices seem to actually _do_ (IMO) for the songs in question. I can see
where my blabbering may have got me into trouble here though... please
understand that my 'authority' on certain things musical results merely from
a strongly ingrained pyscho-acoustical 'perceptual grid' I use from time to
time in my quest for more clues.

>I liken in to those fellow students
>that rambled on about the great use of form or structure within certain
>poems. That's cool enough, and that knowledge can certainly enhance the
>pleasure derived from the poem, but I always felt that these people often
>couldn't appreciate the work from a non-technical, gut level instinct form
>of appreciation.

I know the type. As for me, I spend enormous (to me inordinate) amounts of
time wallowing in the visceral impact of XTC's music and living with the
shrapnel. With XTC my study has only just begun, and I look forward to
someday sharing the results (transcriptions mainly) with anyone whom I
haven't turned off with my counterfeit bookishness. BTW, I graduated with a
music degree, but I remember the gist if not the exact words of my Form &
Analysis professor who taught me to only analyze what you can actually hear.
Easier said than done; written scores offer plenty of escape routes for
those who would ignore this important admonishment.

>I prefer a combo of each, I suppose.

Would you like to add cheese to that for 20 cents? :)

>I like the final
>chord of "Farmboy" regardless of whether it is a suspended teriary harmonic
>third feldspar diminished.

YES!!! (LOL)

I can't flame anyone who is this honest, objective, and funny to boot!


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