Precedence: bulk
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #2-73

          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 2, Number 73

                 Monday, 19 February 1996

Today's Topics:

                    Beeswax, anybody?
                  Television Satellites
         Re: Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher...
              Re: The *Sad* One continues...
            Through the Hill -- A big suprise!
                       Scissor Man
           Comics and the XTC action thriller!
                 Andy resigned as clown.
          lyrics removed by enormous pink thing
               Re: Chalkhills Digest #2-72
               Re: My, the world looks good
               Steven Duffy (ex-Lilac Time)
          Aimee Mann's night with Andy Partridge
                Comic History, Best of '95
                      HUMO Interview
                     Favorite songs?
                     Re:Tribute tape


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The girl tribe are growing up and filling the world full with a new soul.


Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 14:14:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Wesley David Shaw <>
Subject: Beeswax, anybody?

I have access to a Beeswax CD and would be willing to trade it for
anything interesting (I've got all the normal cds) that anybody might
have in their collections. Message me if you're interested. I also have
the german bootleg "this is live" that I might be willing to part with. .
. .



Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 17:44:45 -0500
Subject: Television Satellites

Here is a little one-act television drama entitled, "Another Crock of
Plausible Satellites."

Introduction: XTOTX proposed an interpretation of "Another Satellite," asking
if it could be about Andy's shunning religion and wondering if anyone else
had ever had arrived at the same translation.

[Open on the front room of the Brady household.]
Greg: The song is about a woman who had the hots for Andy--period!  Sorry to
spoil your religious theory, XTOTX.
Marcia: I thought that it was a valid argument.
Greg: Get real, Marsh, even when Andy's being clever, he's rarely ^that^
elliptical.  XTOTX's interpretation was rubbish.
Jan: But, you guys, isn't a complex song like "A.S." much more satisfying
than one in which the message is straightforward and artlessly told?
Peter: Come on, Jan, this XTOTX (what is that, "XTC" in a mirror or
something?) is definitely seeing things where there is only darkness.
Bobby:  Yeah!  I bet this person is an English major who has gone a little
far with this interpretation!  And, as we all know, the English literature
mindset is obsessed with picking things apart and seeing rather more trees
than wood.
Cindy:  Hold on!  It's irrelevant whether XTOTX is, rightly or wrongly, an
English student.  I found the analysis quite interesting and plausible.
Peter: While Greg and I do concede that "A. S." might be about religion, why
would Andy be so secretive, writing about religion in code.  Andy ^never^
writes in code!  See, Andy calls his admirer a "satellite" [Peter points to
CD insert for Skylarking], what could be more straightforward than that?  You
like straightforward?  Then Andy's your man!
Greg: Peter, I never conceded anything.  XTOTX's interpretation was a crock.
 And I doubt that we have an English major on our hands.  This king of bad
analysis comes from not paying close enough attention in English class.
Bobby: Yeah.  If I could meet this XTOTX, I'd ask, "What's your point?"  The
whole theory was groundless.  Interpretations of lyrics do not gain validity
by subjective whim.
Cindy:  Bobby, have you been reading Woody Allen again?
Bobby: And I can just here the response I'd get from this person: "Well,
that's what it says to ME."
Jan: XTOTX's approach may have been over-analytical, but is there really a
difference between love and religion?  Someone had the hots, someone rejected
religion--isn't it all the same?
Mike: Kids, what's all the bickering about?
Greg (as the spokesman for the boys): "Another Satellite" is about a woman
who wanted Andy's brown guitar!
Marcia (acting for the girls): Its about some annoying missionaries!
Mike: What started all of this anyway?
Marcia: Here, read this.  It's from Chalkhills, you know, that list we
subscribed to right after
[Mike and Carol read XTOTX's interpretation.]
Carol: Now, kids, first of all we have to admit that "A. S." really is a
beautiful song.
Mike: The true response to rubbish like this is. . .
Carol: "Hey, XTOTX, your interpretation never occurred to me."  That's what
the original posting was all about, wasn't it?
Kids: Gee, Mom, you're right.  We're sorry we argued.
Bobby:  What's that, Tiger?  Really?  The Beatles ARE talking to ME!

The most definite path to joy is to introduce yourself to XTC material
without (too many) preconceived notions.  Before reading the Chalkhills list,
I had never heard the ^true^ meaning of Another Satellite.  And I won't let
that spoil my imagination.  When I'm in the mood to get one clear, unwavering
meaning from a song, I'll turn on popular radio.

--XTOTX (with a few degrees in physics)


Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 23:07:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: William HamBevan <>
Subject: Re: Thatcher, Thatcher, milk snatcher...

From: "Ken Salaets" <>

>> Okay, but isn't "Dear Madam Barnum" just a veiled reference
>>to Margaret Thatcher? ...However, I know she wasn't exactly
>>the most popular person amongst the creative community...

>Perhaps, but they sure liked her tax policies!  'Spect many more of
>them stayed put in Merry Olde England, as compared to when the Labour
>Party was in power in the '60s and '70s.

Ahem... no, actually. I can only presume that you are in favour of the
sort of tax policies that are currently being thrown into the ring by
such cretins as Dole on your side of the Atlantic. Thatcher ruined any
sense of social responsibility in this country, and it is unthinkable
that XTC were in favour of her 'let the weak go to the wall' brand of
politics: in fact, they have said as much in the past.

Aside from idiots like Phil Collins, who professed the wish to leave the
country if Labour got in again (yeah, right, Phil. Sorry to deprive you
of one of your millions, while there are people starving. Another Day in
Paradise, okay?) you could probably count on one hand the number of bands
that had any sympathy for Thatcher.

As for Madam Barnum, I can assure you that the song has nothing to do
with Thatchism. Like Barnum, the ringmaster, the 'Madam' of the song has
treated her bloke like a circus act; and has humiliated him one time too
many. So, he decides to cut his losses and leave. Simple.

And, yes, I am currently engaged in an 'English Language and Lit' course.
So let's hear nothing more of it.

You're welcome,

William Ham Bevan
Jesus College, Oxford.


Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 18:11:42 -0500
Subject: Re: The *Sad* One continues...

On 16 Feb 96 14:22:10 EST Simon Sleightholm <>

>> If anyone is interested about the request that I made for information
>> leading to the discovery of a *sadder* XTC fan than myself, I would
>> just like it to be known that I have received just such notification
>> and that there is someone out there with *far* more free time than is
>> commonly considered to be healthy. The identity of that person shall
>> remain a secret UNLESS funds to a certain value are transferred into
>> my bank account. You know who you are. <G>

I have no shame!!!  I admit it!  That person...'twas I.  I've made Online
Sounds for my AOL, and I've uploaded them into the software libraries for you
Mac-using XTC AOLers who are interested.  And for the rest of you...I have a
few other soundclips that I've made over the course of a about a year.  I DO
take requests!  Just tell me specifically what you'd like, and I'll see if I
can make it.  I have all of the albums, and I make both SND and WAV files.  I
must expend this unhealthy free time somehow...why not spend it listening to
XTC? <g>  Actually, I don't have THAT much free time, but I do enjoy making
sound clips...  Email me if inerested!

- Piriya

"Your heart is the big box of paints, and
 others, the canvas we're dealt." -- A.P.


Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 15:45:08 -0800
From: Craig Schafer <>
Subject: Through the Hill -- A big suprise!

        Howdy, everyone. I'm a new subscriber to Chalkhills and have been
rather intrigued to see what other XTC fans talk about. Being a resident of
Northern California (I mean the REAL N. Cal, as in almost S. Oreg.), I come
in contact with very few people who listen to such 'obscure' music.
Everything's country up here.
        Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience with 'Through the
Hill'. I first heard of it from a friend who lives near San Francisco. All
he knew was that Andy Partridge had been working on a project with Harold
Budd, and that there was or was going to be a CD. This kinda threw me for
loop! I mean what do Andy Partridge and Harold Budd have in common?
        I know now that it was really naive of me, but after seeing him all
those years on David Letterman's show (and more recently those silly long
distance commercials), I had come to think of him as actually being 'that
way'. You know, the befuddled old man in Buddy Holly glasses who can barely
keep up with his cue cards? It always seemed like he had just accidentally
wandered in front of the camera and didn't really know what to do.
        Yup, I bought it. Hook line and sinker. I half expected the new CD
to be some sort of comedy thing where Andy sings a few lines of a song and
good ol' Harry Budd makes some stammering wise-cracks and Andy sings some
more and blah, blah, blah. You know?
        Well, some time later my birthday rolled around and that same friend
gave me my copy of 'Through the Hill'. It was quite an eye-opener I must
say. I mean it's not the sort of thing I usually listen to, but it certainly
raises questions about what exactly lies behind that glazed stare of Harold
Budd. And now I see those Late Show appearances and long distance
commercials in a whole new light.


        Okay, sorry for the length. Keep up the good work!



Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 21:09:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "M. McHale" <>
Subject: Scissor Man

Dear Chalkhillians,

        John Hedges said in the last digest--

>Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about XTC comic book
>appearances. This has got me to thinking I should just draw my own comic
>book, sort of like a "Comic History of XTC", only with the lads dressed up
>in cheesy superhero outfits. And why hasn't anybody ever done a "Scissor
>Man" comic book? Or maybe a "Pink Thing" series, in which the villains are
>dispatched by a giant...

        Speaking of a "Scissor Man" comic book, I wonder if anyone out there
was a fan of the comic book _Doom Patrol_ in the amazing run of about 50
issues that were written by Grant Morrison.  There were some bad guys in the
first few issues of his authorship called the "scissor men," who dressed in
black and red and carried around a giant pair of (you guessed it) scissors.
"And in ran the great, red, long legged scissor man" was, I believe, a
frequently repeated quote used in connection with these nasties.  I've
always wondered whether there was a connection between the scissor men in
the comic book and the guy in the song.

        While I don't have any copies of _Doom Patrol_ in front of me, I
recall that the editor mentioned in response to a reader query that Morrison
got the idea from a fairy tale, and implied that other readers might be
familiar with it.  I racked my brains, but I couldn't recall ever being told
of these mysterious figures as a child.

        Anyhow, perhaps this is a British thing, which could explain the
connection, because Morrison came from Merry Olde England as well.  Has
anyone else heard of them?  Hello?  C'mon, I know you're out there, I can
hear you breathing...

        _Doom Patrol_ was an amazing book, one of the greatest pieces of
literature I have read, and an example of the comic book at its best.  In
fact, didn't someone in the last digest also quote Mr. Nobody?  Awww,
yeah... Man, that guy was great--so sad to see him go.

Still chewing twenty times before I swallow,
Matt McHale


Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 21:23:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Natalie Jane Jacobs <>
Subject: Comics and the XTC action thriller!

Re. JH3's idle comment about a "Scissor Man" comic book - there already
is one - or rather, one which uses "Scissormen" as characters.  Grant
Morrison's brilliant dada superhero comic DOOM PATROL features his heroes
battling weird villains with scissors for hands who speak in Burroughsian
cut-up nonsense, e.g. "The leaching will be novelistic for effacement!"
Presumably both Grant and Andy were drawing on the same source, a book of
old German fairy tales which featured a Scissor Man who punished children
who sucked their thumbs by cutting off the offending digits.

Sorry - I just had this brainwave today about playing "The Smartest
Monkeys" twelve times in a row and getting Terry Gilliam to direct, thus
resulting in "12 Smartest Monkeys," in which a bassist from Swindon
travels back in time to revive his former band's moribund career, only to
be thwarted at every turn by a mad bespectacled megalomaniac named
Ambrose Pigeon.

You can kill me now.

Natalie Jacobs
"Are we not proof that the universe is a drooling
idiot with no fashion sense?"	- Mr. Nobody


Date: Sun, 18 Feb 1996 22:09:52 -0500
Subject: Andy resigned as clown.

Dear Madam Barnum:
I put on a fake smile, and start the evening show.....

Evening show.  Concerts.  Touring.  He hates it.  The public is laughing,
but why's he crying inside?  Many people who were lucky enough to catch XTC
live before Andy's breakdown have written in saying something to the
effect, "They played so well.  Andy seemed fine.  He looked like he was
having fun.  Can't understand where this stage fright came from."  It was a
fake smile.  Ladies and gentlemen, introducing for the very last time.  I
think it was Paris, 1982.

This isn't a new interpretation, of course, but the most obvious one (to me).

Something I've wondered about Skylarking.  The continuity thing was an
afterthought devised by Todd R. *after* he heard all the demos.  So XTC
never consciously had a concept beforehand, unlike concept album pioneers
Moody Blues, who wrote songs specifically to fit the concept.  I find it
interesting that as two starkly different songwriters Andy and Colin seem
to write common thematic songs for each album: industrial/nostalgic for the
Big Express, medieval/rural for Mummer, loads of social
commentary/preaching for Oranges and Lemons, Englishness to the max for
English Settlement.  If strung together with a little creativity, any one
of these four albums could have been a loosely coherent "concept" album
like Skylarking.  Nonsuch is the only recent album where it really is a
mixed bag.  Hmm... I think I've finally discovered the reason why I'm so
luke-warm about Nonsuch.

Which leads conveniently to Eric Rosen's ideas for the next album.  A theme
sounds like an excellent idea--they've been doing that for fifteen years!
But a more succinct, tangible theme would be neat, too.  XTC has so much
material and so much talent that a small restriction like this, which would
artistically choke any other band, might just be the parameters they need
to reign themselves in from complete musical all-over-the-place-ness.
(Eew, sorry about that last sentence--that little bird who whispers the
right words in my ear just didn't show up tonight.)  Something DIFFERENT,
of course, since that's what XTC is all about.  Orchestral songs without
abandon sounds marvelous.  And don't worry about commercial suicide--XTC's
committed commercial suicide many times over, and in most cases, much to my
aural delight.



Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 00:46:19 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" <>
Subject: lyrics removed by enormous pink thing

On Sun, 18 Feb 1996 wrote:

> Subject: Senses W/Overtime and the lyric remover thingy
> The reason is this:  These devices subtract one channel from the
> other, effectively removing any sounds that appear in both channels
> at the same time.  As most vocal tracks are recorded in the exact
> centre of the soundstage, the vocals can be matched up and removed,
> leaving only the music.
> Now... the entire vocal track for Senses Working Overtime is set in
> the centre of the soundstage, _except_ for 'A striking beauty!',
> which only appears in the right channel.  This is why it's the only
> lyric that can be heard when the vocals are cut out.

On the notes to Brian Eno's _On Land_, he describes a way to broaden the
stereo image with a third speaker, wired to the positive terminals of
both channels of the amplifier. This achieves the same effect: any
information common to both channels (which centers it) is phase-cancelled
(or at least, it's eliminated--I think that's the mechanism that does
it). If that's all those devices do, you can do the same hting for the
cost of a cheap speaker (you don't need much bass, since most bass
post-1970 is centered as well).

Also: (JH3) wrote:

> Or maybe a "Pink Thing" series, in which the villains are
> dispatched by a giant...

--Jeff <>

Jeffrey J. Norman, Dept. of English & Comparative Literature
University  of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

SCENE 1: Tall men in white push red vacuum cleaners, surrounded by short
men in black with short mustaches and pushbrooms.

PS: It's an eraser you big sillies!


Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 10:34:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest #2-72

Hello Everyone,

Well Heyniger (poss. unfortunate surname!) wrote about The Lilac

Two things: They _are_ great, esp. the AP produced 'And Love For All'
and Stephen Duffy has also released an album called 'Stephen Duffy'
which features Nigel Kennedy heavily - Nigel is a greebo who plays
violin very well and has along with many things done a lot to
popularise Classical Muzic.  Go out an pick up Duffy's stuffy's from
bargain binz - that's where I got a lot of mine!!

Hugs to everyone,

Dames TWD

(Life is good in the greenhouse:XTC)
(You told me you saw Jesus, but I could only see a tree: Amber)


From: Ben Gott <>
Subject: Rerelease
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 96 07:58:00 est

Hi to everyone:

    Well, whoever said that the albums I posted were gonna be rereleased was
right! According to CDnow, the following albums will be rereleased on March
12 for $8.77 (US dollars) on CD:

    Oranges and Lemons
    Big Express
    Rag and Bone Buffet

Might this be part of the new contract? Who knows...

Until next time,

XTC SONG OF THE DAY: Life is Good in the Greenhouse


Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 09:48:36 -0800
From: Bill Wisner <>
Organization: Trailing Edge Technologies, Half Moon Bay, CA
Subject: Re: My, the world looks good

Along about a week ago, Simon Sleightholm wrote:
>How anyone can enjoy White Music and
>Go 2 but claim the main fault with Alanis as being her mannered vocal,
>I can't undertand.

I personally claim that the main fault with Alanis is her terribly
trite lyrics.  "One Hand In My Pocket" makes me want to run away and
bury my head in the sand.  XTC's lyrics are witty and insightful; they
manage to put a little world into every single song.  Morissette's
songwriting talents run more to three-minute-long "fuck you"s.

>XTC fans should, if they haven't already, check out the Icicle Works
>and the subsequent solo album by their songwriter, Ian McNabb, Truth
>And Beauty.

Seconded.  In their prime the Icicle Works recorded some amazing music.
They're long out of print in the US, though, so you're going to have
to find them as Canadian or British imports.  (Look for the "Best Of"
two disc set; the first three songs on it are all brilliant.)


Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:05:50 -0500
Subject: Steven Duffy (ex-Lilac Time)

I am another fan of Steven Duffy, and his former pop group The Lilac Time.
 Here is a little info I can add re: Duffy's solo career:  after Astronauts
appeared as the best record of 1991 (despite no US release), the group
disbanded.  I recall seeing a solo album of Mr. Duffy's in an import record
shop in NYC, on the cover of which he is standing in front of a vending
machine that dispenses the album's songs in cute and colorful wrappers.
 Unfortunately, I did not buy this album, probably due to temporary insanity.

Steven Duffy's most recent solo LP, Duffy, was released late last year, and
it is phenomenal - it rocks pretty loud (well, compared to the Lilac Time!)
is produced splendidly by Mitch Easter, and has some killer hooks, like the
ones on "Sugar High", "The Kids on Every Corner", and "Rachel".  I have seen
this album for sale in at least two music shops in Manhattan - one in
Greenwich Village and one in Midtown.  It is, however, only available as an
import.  Why???


Date: 19 Feb 96 13:49:00 EST
From: "will heyniger" <>
Subject: Aimee Mann's night with Andy Partridge

  Hello Chalkhillians -- I thought I'd forward an excerpt from an
interview with Aimee Mann in The Boston Phoenix's web site. She
mentions the night she got Andy P. onstage to sing along with her
band when she covered `Collide-a-Scope.' If this has already been
mentioned, forgive me. Thanks to John Butland (
for spotting this and sending it to the Loud Family list, where I
thieved it...

  Q: I know you've performed live with [Scott Miller of the Loud
Family]; you also toured with Squeeze, and you got Andy  Partridge
of XTC on stage in New York for the first and only time since his
nervous breakdown 10 years ago. It must take a lot of nerve to get
up and sing with the people you admire most.

 A: The Andy Partridge thing happened because I was dating the
guitarist of XTC [Dave Gregory],  who was in my band for a while.
But, okay, here's how my intensive understanding of human  nature
works to my advantage. Andy came to one of our shows, and I asked
him to play  tambourine on this XTC song ["Collideascope"] that we
were covering. I knew he had severe  stagefright, so I said, "You
don't have to sing; just play tambourine and have some fun." I knew
that he'd be all right once he got on stage; in fact, he's a bit of
a ham. So he's standing beside me  and I'm singing his song -- not
incredibly well, I might add. So I'm like, "Come on, sing along!"
Next thing you know, he's singing four times as loud as me.

 Andy's the kind of person who's afraid of being a disappointment,
because he's got so many expectations on him. You know how I got
over that? I don't care about being a disappointment!  Maybe I'll
forget the lyrics, but who cares, that happens a lot. But I think
that people can see I care about what I'm doing, and they pull for
you when they see that.

  The rest of the interview can be found at:

  Check out the rest of the magazine at:

cheers! --Will


Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 10:54:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Comic History, Best of '95

John H. Hedges (a.k.a., on Sat, 17 Feb 1996, wrote:
>Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about XTC comic book
>appearances. This has got me to thinking I should just draw my own comic
>book, sort of like a "Comic History of XTC", only with the lads dressed up
>in cheesy superhero outfits. And why hasn't anybody ever done a "Scissor
>Man" comic book? Or maybe a "Pink Thing" series, in which the villains are
>dispatched by a giant...


Okay, with that out of the way and about 6 weeks late:

Six Fave Albums I Bought In 1995 (alphabetical by artist)
The Beatles "Revolver" (may not be eligible -- I got the cd to replace
   the lp I bought 20 years ago)
Van Morrison "Days Like These" (the latest studio album)
Searchers "Greatest Hits" (a nifty collection of the 1963-67 hits by
   another wonderful Merseybeat band who did time in Hamburg and The
   Cavern Club [on Rhino])
Matthew Sweet "100% Fun" (and indeed it is!)
Waltons "Cock's Crow" (Canadian pop band, in a similar vein to Crowded
   House and Michael Penn; a reliable source tells me they used to
   cover "Earn Enough For Us")
XTC "Drums and Wireless" (the BBC sessions)



Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 13:52:30 -0800
From: relph (John Relph)
Subject: HUMO Interview

Say hey!

Tim Van Holder (also unknown as Zastai) <>
has submitted his translation of an interview which was originally
published in the Belgian magazine _HUMO_ around the time of the
release of _Nonsvch_.  The article is entitled "XTC: `We Were First'",
and was written by Serge Simonart.  It's a little long to post to
Chalkhills directly, so you can find it in on the Chalkhills Web Site

Thank you Zastai!

	-- John

Deliver the nursery and curse the teachers.
Speed nourishes a criminal in this age.


Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 19:54:33 -0500
Subject: Favorite songs?

John E. Daley wrote about his all-time favorite songs of XTC.  And no, I
believe there can not possibly be any one song that everyone can agree on.
 But what good taste you have in terms of XTC songs! "Mayor of Simpleton,"
"Life at the Hop," and "Sacrificial Bonfire" are songs that I truly enjoy as
well.  One song that I like (that no one else seems to like) is "Omnibus."

Jeffrey Norman ( listed Soul Coughing's "Ruby Vroom" as one
of the CDs in his CD changer.  How IS that album, anyway?  Are those guys any
good?  It's just that when I heard "Screenwriter's Blues", the guy's voice
sounded remarkably like a  young poet I heard about a year ago, whose name
was Joseph Wood.  He read at a poetry reading at Border's Books and Music in
Rosemont, Pennsylvania in the summer of '94 and his poetry also sounds a lot
like the lyrics of Soul Coughing ("Los Angeles beckons teenagers to come to
her on buses...").  Anyway, that is how I became interested in this group.
 Are all their songs just recitations without a tune, just him talking?
I'd like to know ... for it strikes that personal note within me....


Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:22:10 +1200
From: (James Dignan)
Subject: Re:Tribute tape

Natalie Jane Jacobs <> wrote:

>As a fellow frustrated SKYLACKING contributor, I wholeheartedly endorse John
>Christensen's suggestion that we put together a Chalkhills tribute tape. I
>have the feeling that something like this has been done before, but with the
>amount of XTC material out there, and the collective creativity of
>Chalkhillians, it isn't like we're going to put out a carbon copy of the last
>effort (if there is one). Is anyone else interested in this? It sounds like a
>lot of fun.

This sort of thing was done recently on the Robyn Hitchcock list, and the
resulting 2 tapes (180 minutes of covers) was not only very enjoyable to
make, but very enjoyable to listen to as well.


James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago.

Ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand
pixelphone / steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807

   * You talk to me as if from a distance
   * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time,
   * from another time                     (Brian Eno)


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