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Subject: Chalkhills Digest #2-28


          Chalkhills Digest, Volume 2, Number 28

                 Friday, 10 November 1995

Today's Topics:

                         Re: Huh?
                  Oh Lord deliver us...
                       XTC and Love
                         Re: Huh?
               Re: Chalkhills Digest #2-27
                 Re: Who XTC Should Cover
                      lyric identify
                         doG raeD
                    Italian XTC books
     Muzak versions of XTC - anybody got 'em on tape?
                   dear god. my weapon.
                        XTC Italy
                      Andy IS god...
                         One more
           Taking one's ball and going home...
                  re: hypothetical junk
                     Double standard
                     God and Gregory
               Re: Chalkhills Digest #2-27
           The sign in the bar/New thread idea?
         Additions to the "XTC as Coverband" list

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:15:46 -0500
From: mp2@waterw.com (Jim Kee)
Subject: Re: Huh?

>From: weisrot@cscoe.ac.com (Todd Weisrock - CIS)

>>>The Fall                This Is Pop
>>>Sisters Of Mercy                Rook
>>>The Mission                     Great Fire
>>>The Cult                        Complicated Game
>Boy, I always thought of myself as a music fan!!
>Am I the only one who has only heard of one or two
>of these bands??

I put down bands that I hadn't seen people use already.  I tried to name
bands that I thought people might know.  You should see the bands I didn't
put in there due to lack of public knowledge of the band.  While I'm here I
might as well defnd some of my choices, namely SOM & the Mission.

The Sisters: I thought would be a good choice for Rook based on their song
'Torch', from Floodland.  I pictured it done in that vein.
The Mission: I figured would be a good for a couple of reasons: 1) I liked
their cover of the Kinks' Mr Pleasant & 2) Although the session ended badly,
Andy did produce the Mission single 'Hands Across The Ocean'.  I thought it
would be nice if the Mish covered an XTC song.
The Cult: I was feeling whimsical & I figured they'd feel left out if I put
the Sisters & Mish in there without them.

Later,
Jim

------------------------------

From: Gene_Yoon@brown.edu
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:58:29 -0500
Subject: Oh Lord deliver us...

>From: "Ken Salaets" <ksalaets@itic.nw.dc.us>
>
>As for me, my faith and belief in God is firm and not based on any man or
>woman's opinions.  Hence, it is not harmed by contrary expressions, nor
>for that matter, by those who may agree with me!  I am comfortable in my
>beliefs, and not afraid nor put off by those who may disagree.  It's a
>mighty big world we got going here, and it seems to me there's room enough
>for all of our ideas.

:+)

A friend of my family's who happens to be a Catholic priest once told me
that to truly "have faith" in God or any religion, you would have enough
faith in your belief to be comfortable in questioning it.  I see logic in
this.  Allegedly, JC was always questioning things.  If there is a god,
then I agree with Andy that god is within us all, and heaven is not when we
die but here in this existence if we can make it so.

>From: "David G. Shaw" <dshaw@tiac.net>
>
>I've been reading this list for two months, and have only posted here
>once before. I am very close to abandoning this whole mess -- I wanted to
>read about a band, not the list members' religious beliefs.

>From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan)
>
>BTW, if I wanted a lot of the recent messages, I would have subscribed to
>"Phenomenology'r'us", not "Chalkhills". Andy's atheism (or not), OK.
>Whether God exists? Come on... people have been arguing that for millenia -
>we're not going to settle it here.

We won't settle it in this lifetime anywhere on this planet, but that
shouldn't keep people from talking about it.  And I'm always impressed that
a lot of Chalkhills members can intelligently throw around some heady ideas
that don't necessarily relate to chord changes.  I think a lot of XTC's
music can be very spiritual, so the topic is not so out of place.  For me,
at least, it's neat to discuss religion in this context (the context of
some awesome music!) instead of in some stale stuffy church basement with
that lady with horn-rimmed glasses and bad breath who I'd see every Sunday
about twelve years ago.

But give us a new album and I'd bet all mention of Dear God in Chalkhills
would evaporate instantaneously.

>From: relph (John Relph)
>
>As regards covers (A Testimonial Dessert), remember that the first
>requirement was that the bands/artists involved had to love XTC in the
>first place.

There seem to be two different camps here on Chalkhills: those with a
realistic vision for another tribute album, and others with "wouldn't it be
nice" or humorous wish lists.  It wouldn't make sense, seniority speaking,
for Ray Davies to cover XTC, but "wouldn't it be perfect" if he sang
Smalltown?

I got the Verve Pipe's Pop Smear CD in the mail today.  It's very good, not
as much like XTC as I thought it would be, but solid throughout.
Combination of "classic" and "alteranative" rock sounds, almost bluesy
sometimes.  Am looking forward to their '96 release on RCA.

It's nice to see Thomas Dolby is still friendly with AP <From:
patty@gdb.org (Patty Haley) / Subject: I figured I'd go to the source>.
There apparently still exist some former associates that Andy hasn't
alienated completely.

Gene
"A mind is a terrible thing." --a former U.S. vice president

=A2       =A2       =A2       =A2       =A2       =A2       =A2
You can't buy chewing gum anywhere in Singapore.
But you can buy peppermint candy 'cause you eat it till it's gone.
    =A2       =A2       =A2       =A2       =A2       =A2       =A2

------------------------------

From: dallin@CS.ColoState.EDU (michael dallin)
Subject: XTC and Love
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:04:40 -0700 (MST)

I don't know if this was posted before, but ah, what the heck:

A few days ago, I got a promo version of the new cd compilation by the group
Love.  It is a double CD entitled "Love Stories, 1966-1972.  I was reading
through the CD booklet, and came upon the following...

"... The general folk rock and pop atmosphere combined with the dreamy
wordplay can also be heard in the music of Robyn Hitchcock and XTC and
certain "shoe-gazer" bands (Lush, This Mortal Coil, Inspiral Carpets, etc) of
the early 90's. ..."

In case you haven't heard of Love, they were an interesting late 60's/early
70's group, whose album "Forever Changes" is highly recommended (BTW, the
entire contents of Forever Changes is on the new double CD set).  All good
stuff if you are into this era of music.

Now, back to the "Dear God" debate... ;)

-- Mike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 17:12:09 -0800
From: Kevin Collins <kevcol@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Huh?

>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 15:07:36 -0600
>From: weisrot@cscoe.ac.com (Todd Weisrock - CIS)
>Subject: Huh?
>
**Several band names deleted**
>
>Boy, I always thought of myself as a music fan!!
>Am I the only one who has only heard of one or two
>of these bands??
>
>Later,
>Jim (Kee)
>

No, but you may be dating yourself!
In fairness, I am 32 but listen to many of the bands listed there.

Cheers

------------------------------

From: 7IHd <ee92pmh@brunel.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest #2-27
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 02:45:48 +0000 (GMT)

>From someone whos name I intentionally deleted...
# Subject: Please stop this
#
# You know, I was really hoping that this list would have been sick to death
# by now of this whole pointless Dear God argument, but obviously, somebody
# decided to set the whole can of worms out again. This was the only thing
# that made me hesitate joining this list, and now it appears that I should
# have stayed off. I am sick and tired of reading all these anti-Christianity
# pro-atheist messages that keep showing up. I'm also appaled that people
# would send personal attacks to a public list. It is because of this that I
# will now leave permanently, unless somebody can give me a decent
# explanation as to why I should stay on. At least I was able to do something
# good by suggesting there be a list t-shirt made.

...and the reason I deleted it is because _everyone_ is posting variations
on this message, and it's unfair to pick on just one, but this one seems to
include all the points and was near the top...

Now really, is it just me, or are the people (generalised) posting messages
such as the above flying off the handle about this thread even more than
the people who were flying off the handle when contributing to it? I don't
think there were any 'personal attacks' on the list, unless you call
disagreeing with someone an attack. I don't think there were any more
'pro-atheist' messages than there were 'pro-christian' messages. All in
all a slightly heated but fairly balanced discussion, which achieved
nothing for one simple reason: people can make their own minds up about
these things and don't need to be told. This applies to (a) any message
on the list, and (b) any message in the lyrics of a song.

The Dear God discussion would be dead by now if there weren't so many
'kill this thread' messages and messages saying the same things again
and again that the next Chalkhills is coming through practically before
you've replied to the last one.

To anyone thinking of leaving the list, I'd like to encourage you not
to, it's not usually like this and if everyone can be persuaded to
stand back and take a few deep breaths, things will get back to normal.

I have just contributed to the state of decay myself, for which I apologise.
Whatever you do, DON'T reply to this message. Email, yes, but not to the
list!

Thankyou, and goodnight.
  _
 |_)|_ *|
 |  | )||   http://http2.brunel.ac.uk:8080/~ee92pmh/
 ========

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 95 21:22 CST
From: Russ Omens <psychro@wwa.com>
Subject: Re: Who XTC Should Cover

>From: vanvalnc@is2.nyu.edu (Chris Van Valen)
>
>Here's a variarion on the "TD is Great vs. Sucks" debate and the ongoing
>theological salvos.
>
>Who should XTC cover???
>
>The rules are as follows:
>
>1) No Brian Wilson songs. (Too obvious)
>2) No B*****s. (ditto)
>3) No drum solos.
>4) No crybabies.
>5) So far they've covered only Beefheart("Ella Guru") and Dylan
>("Watchtower"), so the field's wide open.

I'm a delurker, after months of reading, I finally felt a need to chip in. I
find it amazing that we're posting and happily obsessing over a band that
(currently) neither releases records or plays live gigs! As such we
communicate our frustration and starvation in unique and myriad ways such as
devising cover lists, etc. Okay, I'm all for it, we're a small but loyal
bunch of fanatics anxiously awauting NEW TUNES. I'd like to hear xtc covers
by unexpected non-pop bands/artists like Neil Young, or Bruce Springsteen
that are popped-up by the band rather than pop covers of pop tunes. (Or here
Neil Young doing "This is pop?"  However, I'd also be intrested if this list
was expanded to include 60's covers like Itchycoo Park, Something in the
air, Fire, See Emily Play, etc. by the Dukes! (Then we could include
B*****s!)  Send those karmic vibes to Virgin/Geffen and think positively
that 1996 will be a massive year for the band and their fans (including
me---Russ Omens)

------------------------------

Subject: lyric identify
From: jd.mack@neteast.com (JD MACK)
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 95 22:38:00 -0500
Organization: Online Technologies, Inc. - Modem:  301-738-0000

O.K., I'm done sounding off about religion.  New subject:  "Senses
Working Overtime."  What are the barely-audible words spoken after the
line "but to me there very very beautiful," and also after the next
"beautiful?"

NP: "The Rite Of Spring" - the first real rock and roll album!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:32:44 -0800
From: Kevin Collins <kevcol@teleport.com>
Subject: doG raeD

Anyone try playing 'Dear God' backwards?

------------------------------

From: ZITTEL@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:39:33 -0500
Subject: Italian XTC books

manfredi@scf.usc.edu wrote:

> Also, in a literary frame of mind, at that same Tower Records I saw a
copy of an Italian book that had the lyrics to all of XTC's albums from
"White Music" to "Oranges and Lemons", in both English and Italian.  It had
an introduction in Italian that I could pick about 4 words out of.  Has
anyone else seen this book?  Do XTC have a big following in Italy?  Just
curious.<

There have been two XTC books published in Italy. The book mentioned above
is 'XTC Testi, Con Traduzione A Fronte'. It is written in Italian except
for some of the lyrics. Since I can't speak Italian I can't give any other
details. It was published in 1992. The other book is simply titled XTC. It
is written by Vittorio Azzoni and has a picture of Drums And Wires on the
cover.  It was published in 1986 by Gammalibri and is also written in
Italian.

Maybe some Italian fan out there has these books and could tell us more
about the contents.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:41:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Mark Rushton <rushton@primenet.com>
Subject: Muzak versions of XTC - anybody got 'em on tape?

>From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <ccoolidg@moose.uvm.edu>
>I heard a muzak version of "The Mayor Of Simpleton" in the Grand Union
>today. Ye Gods, is nothing sacred?

Brainstorm time!  I was wondering if anybody out there might actually be
hardcore enough to have copies of Muzak or Muzak-like rendtions of XTC songs?

I can see it now.  Some "fan" out there, with an internship at Muzak,
staying late at night dubbing wildly the schmaltzy renditions of XTC songs.
Oboes, trumpets, and violins replacing Andy, Dave, & Colin.  Hmmmm!  Come
on, fess up you!  We want the XTC Muzak Version "Tree" !!! :-)

As for the ongoing "Dear God" babble:  When I bought "Skylarking" on
cassette in 1986 it didn't have "Dear God" on it.  Still have the cassette.
Still doesn't have "Dear God" on it!  Ha ha ha ha!!!!!!

Mark Rushton, author of the: Bill Nelson WWW site:
http://www.primenet.com:80/~rushton/nelson.html
stop by and visit....

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:57:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Brookes McKenzie <RMCKENZI@smith.smith.edu>
Subject: dear god. my weapon.

[jd.mack@neteast.com wrote:]

Imagine an unthinkable for a moment: Andy
Partridge composes a song with a great chord progression, catchy melody,
and fantastic arrangement, but the lyrics go "I hate the Niggers.  Kill
All the Jews."  And imagine for a moment that he was serious.  I don't
think many people out there would consider themselves "Closed-minded"
for skipping this song each time it came on.  It simply would go
against most people's deeply held personal values.  As far as "Dear God"
goes, Andy may think what he likes, and he certainly has the right to
express it to the world, but I have have my own values, and I will not
listen to a song that I consider as offensive as the fictious song I
described.

----------------

this deeply disturbs me, as it is almost exactly the way i feel about barry
andrews' "my weapon". even leaving aside the question of whether barry is
as brilliant of a songwriter as andy (i personally don't think that he is),
AND the question of whether barry was being ironic (it doesn't seem like it
to me, but he _might_ have been, i suppose), i really don't like listening
to "my weapon" because i find it so offensive, but i think it's a cute,
catchy tune and melody. also i almost ^(lyrically speaking) resent the fact
that the song *packages* its message of sexual violence so effectively by
making it a little off-beat and harmless-_sounding_ song, but i think it's
ridiculous that one should not listen to it as a way of protecting oneself
from "catching" misogyny (or atheism). or as a protest to the songwriter
who will never know or care that you skip that song every time it comes up
on the cd. yet i do have that urge - to simply avoid dealing with the
contradictory feelings brought up by the song by not listening to it. but
surely listening to a song, and enjoying the things about it that you like,
doesn't make you a sympathizer with its politics *automatically* - or does
it? i have struggled with this question before, and the answer i always
ended up with was to listen to the song anyway. (c.f. matthew sweet's "does
she talk?" and "evangeline", and the rentals "brilliant boy", just off the
top of my head.) but i find it very interesting and worthwhile to discuss
this issue, and your point, JD, is well taken - i don't have a problem with
"dear god" because it doesn't push any of my particular buttons.

	- brookes

and he came by the way that i said i was leaving,
the way that i'd take if i really was going,
if i had a map that is why i'm delaying,
and if it wasn't in there i'd surely be staying

	- palace brothers

------------------------------

From: "Wynne, Steve" <Steve.Wynne@orbit.net>
Subject: XTC Italy
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 08:46:00 MET

In reply to Richard Manfredi's mail yesterday, unfortunately XTC like many
decent British and American bands don't have much of a following over here.
The main problem, I think is the language.
It's easy to sing along to "Saturday Night" by Whigfield (Number 1 for 7
weeks) but not so easy to understand what say "Ugly Underneath" may be
about, never mind sing to it.
So it's Europop all the way over here in sunny (well, it was) Italia, and
the last decent band to play here was February and that was REM.

Ciao for now,

Steve
An Englishman in Rome

"Spit in my face.....I'd love you for it......"

------------------------------

From: s.reule@genie.com
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 08:05:00 UTC 0000
Subject: Andy IS god...

Andy Partridge was in Sacramento a couple years ago and I had the
 supreme privelege of talking to him for 15 or 20 minutes.  We did
 NOT discuss Dear God!  More on this another time.

However, he also did an interview and a Q&A session over the local
 "alternative" station and in response to a caller who wanted to
 know what Dear God meant he said the following, which I taped for
 posterity:

"I was really wrestling with the dying embers of my disgust in
 christianity so...  I know, to do a pocket version of what I
 believe - There is no god, there is, ergo, there is no devil,
 there's no heaven and no hell and we have to be as good as
 possible and have as much fun down here and cause everyone else
 to have as much fun as possible and not let people scare the
 pants off you with this religious nonsense."

I'd say that's pretty clear...

Jumping in Gomorrah,
 Steve

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:08:18 -0600
From: weisrot@cscoe.ac.com (Todd Weisrock - CIS)
Subject: One more

If Dear God, or any song or act of expression, makes one re-examine
their beleifs, what's the harm?

People should be made to think about things and not just beleive them
blindly.

For some people, re-examining things will make them change what they
think, while for others it will intensify and reaffirm what they already
beleive.

As an analogy, I have explored other employment opportunities on
numerous occasions and EVERY TIME, it only makes me realize how much
I like what I'm doing right now.  It makes me think about, realize and
appreciate how good I have it.

If XTC songs provoke some thought, excellent!!!  So little does these
days.....

------------------------------

Date: 10 Nov 1995 09:41:51 -0500
From: "Ken Salaets" <ksalaets@itic.nw.dc.us>
Subject: Taking one's ball and going home...

>> It is because of <Dear God commentary> that I will now leave permanently,
unless somebody can give me a decent explanation as to why I should stay on.

Excuse my frankness, but why should that matter to us?  This is one big
playground (that has gotten rather busy of late!), and there's room enough
for everyone.  On the other hand, far be it from me to appear to dis-invite
someone of the female persuasion from playing in this sandbox, since there
are seemingly so few of you in digital form these days.

Until the band gets it together and puts out something NEW into which we can
sink our souls, all there is to do around here is to dribble on about
relatively meaningless topics, whether it be Andy's Kyrie, wish lists for TD
II, or what have you.  One wo/man's dribble is another wo/man's drool, and
without such, there'd be no Chalkhills.  Thanks to Andy the "Geomancer" for
making life interesting in the face of this blasted prolonged drought!

------------------------------

From: RandyXpher@aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:28:30 -0500
Subject: re: hypothetical junk

I can't believe I'm writing this, tired as I am of this debate.  But this
cannot pass...

>But I for one will always skip by "Dear God" on my CD, and change the
>station when it comes on the radio.  Here's why.  Imagine an
>unthinkable for a moment: Andy Partridge composes a song with a great
>chord progression, catchy melody, and fantastic arrangement, but the
>lyrics go "I hate the Niggers.  Kill All the Jews."  And imagine for
>a moment that he was serious.  I don't think many people out there
>would consider themselves "Closed-minded" for skipping this song each
>time it came on.  It simply would go against most people's deeply
>held personal values.  As far as "Dear God" goes, Andy may think what
>he likes, and he certainly has the right to express it to the world,
>but I have have my own values, and I will not listen to a song that I
>consider as offensive as the fictious song I described.

If AP wrote that hypothetical song and expressed those beliefs, I'd trash
the hypothetical album, along with the rest of my XTC collection.  I would
not be able to rationalize that one song away, or pretend that it didn't
exist (there's an irony for ya).  And if you truly find DG to be *that*
offensive, you shouldn't be able to, either.  So we're either talking about
hypocrisy or a bad analogy here, your choice.  BTW, if you can't bear
having your religious beliefs even *questioned*, I question how "deeply
held" they really are.

Folks, it's been almost ten years since DG was unleashed.  Shouldn't we all
have come to terms with it by now?  Regardless of your faith or lack of
same, it's a great song, a cry of the world's pain, and a lashing out at a
concept/being (again your choice) the author blames for a disproportionate
part of it.  Accept it as such.  If you can't, why are you on this list?

disappearing again,

RC

------------------------------

From: BObannon@aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:28:37 -0500
Subject: Double standard

>>>Imagine an unthinkable for a moment: Andy
Partridge composes a song with a great chord progression, catchy melody,
and fantastic arrangement, but the lyrics go "I hate the Niggers.  Kill
All the Jews."  And imagine for a moment that he was serious.  I don't
think many people out there would consider themselves "Closed-minded"
for skipping this song each time it came on.  It simply would go
against most people's deeply held personal values.<<<

Wow, what a great point, and very well put. Thank you. There is a
heightened sensitivity today to racial issues, sexism and sexual
preferences, but a heightened DEsensitivity to the interests of
Christians. A person speaking out against racism is regarded as noble, but
a Christian speaking out against immorality or atheism is seen as
intolerant. Andy Partridge is merely utilizing his free speech in "Dear
God," but a Christian's critique of the song is called narrow-minded. These
are all major double standards, and they seem to most often come from the
so-called progressive artistic community.

To those complaining about this ongoing dialogue about God, I would say
that if you prefer discussions about XTC catalog numbers or fictitious
tribute albums (fun, I'll admit, but trivial), then perhaps you should
reconsider your priorities. The overwhelming response to this issue every
time it comes up shows how much most people are intrigued by it. Jesus said
His message would divide people, and here we are, 2,000 years later, and
His prediction is still coming true.

Bob O'Bannon
BObannon@aol.com

------------------------------

From: Martin_Monkman@fincc04.fin.gov.bc.ca
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:40:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: God and Gregory

  RE: the "Dear God" debate (which, I have noted, is getting testier
  and less popular all the time)
  -- a famous songwriter once wrote "See them fighting in the street,
  'cause they can't make opinions meet about God".  It's ironic that
  Chalkhills has become an example of the sort of intolerance that
  inspired the song's author.

  RE: Dave Gregory's contribution to XTC
  -- look closely at the cover of Oranges and Lemons.  From whose
  guitar are all the oranges and lemons spilling?  Is there a hidden
  meaning?  Of course!  The other two chaps may write all the songs,
  but without Mr. Gregory, there would be no oranges and lemons.

  Martin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:50:49 -0500 (EST)
From: James Poulakos <engjcp@gsusgi2.gsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest #2-27

I agree, Olaf; that's one of the many things that excites me about XTC's
music. I think I was one of the first to unwittingly "re-open the can of
worms" re: Dear God because I wanted to comment on Partridge's
presentation in that song of a persona that seems to be saying two things
at once. Unfortunately, I also tried to stress that it was the piece of
art (Andy's song) that was the issue here, not Andy's beliefs. Obviously
the multiple meanings suit the topic of the song, in this case, but I am
as fond of Andy's poetic conceits that toy with multiple meanings across
different contexts, such as "That's Really Super, Supergirl," where the
descriptions of the jilted lover coincide so neatly with the language and
metaphors taken from a comic book world.

Olaf Helman wrote:

"As usual, we've got Andy's great double-meaning lyrics.
'I can't believe in you'  could mean 'I don't believe
you exist'  or it could mean 'I can't trust in you to do
what you say'.

If you go for the latter interpretation (which is the one
Christians usually talk about when they use the phrase)
and combine it with the 'and us crazy humans wrote it'
line, you get the following logic:  'I can't trust in you to
do what (it says in the Bible that) you say, because you
didn't say that.'

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.  And interesting how these
two meanings parallel the two meanings of 'Dear God'
('What has the world come to?' / 'listen to me, God' )

And I think it's great that everybody interprets it
differently! Making those double meanings work so
well is part of the XTC greatness."

*-------------------------------------------------------------------
	My home page is now at http://www.gsu.edu/~engjcp/zero.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                       James Poulakos

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:18:38 -0700 (MST)
From: Big Earl Sellar <splitred@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
Subject: The sign in the bar/New thread idea?

Howdy!

 COUNTESS CHOCULA <PALM1624@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu> (love that handle)
hacked out:

> You know, I was really hoping that this list would have been sick to death
> by now of this whole pointless Dear God argument, but obviously, somebody
> decided to set the whole can of worms out again. This was the only thing
> that made me hesitate joining this list, and now it appears that I should
> have stayed off. I am sick and tired of reading all these anti-Christianity
> pro-atheist messages that keep showing up. I'm also appaled that people
> would send personal attacks to a public list. It is because of this that I
> will now leave permanently, unless somebody can give me a decent
> explanation as to why I should stay on.

Then, jd.mack@neteast.com (JD MACK) hacked:

> Yes I can.  I'm not going to get in to any religious debates, though
> I've been sorely tempted by some of the bone headed things said by
> supposedly "open-minded" people in this digest.  But I for one will
> always skip by "Dear God" on my CD, and change the station when it comes
> on the radio.  Here's why.  Imagine an unthinkable for a moment: Andy
> Partridge composes a song with a great chord progression, catchy melody,
> and fantastic arrangement, but the lyrics go "I hate the Niggers.  Kill
> All the Jews."  And imagine for a moment that he was serious.  I don't
> think many people out there would consider themselves "Closed-minded"
> for skipping this song each time it came on.  It simply would go
> against most people's deeply held personal values.  As far as "Dear God"
> goes, Andy may think what he likes, and he certainly has the right to
> express it to the world, but I have have my own values, and I will not
> listen to a song that I consider as offensive as the fictious song I
> described.

Although the logic of these arguments are IMVHO somewhat silly (I can't
see the argument of DEAR GOD as being the same as "I hate God"), the
point raised is valid. This is a list about a band, a beat group, and not
about theological discourse done largely by people with no real
intellectual background in the area (myself included).

I remember seeing a Giles cartoon with a bartender pointing to a sign
saying NO RELIGION OR POLITICS SPOKEN HERE while staring at a man who
just decked a fellow drinker. The caption: "I wasn't talkin' no religion
or politics. I just punched him."

Despite my anarchist political beliefs (let's *not* discuss that, shall
we), I move that the good Mr. Relph terminate this round of the DEAR GOD
discussion, to save us all bandwidth, lower our collective blood
pressures and get back to the important thing here: this wonderful little
beat group that we all love. If y'all wanna go to private flame-wars
(alt.music.xtc.dear_god.kill.kill?) then go ahead. But I think we could
all use a break.

So, I put forward an idea for a new thread, especially in light of the
Mayor of Simplton muzak notice: Where is the strangest place you've heard
XTC playing.

(Tracy, please stay. This is a wonderful list, honestly!)

Winter must be coming: everyone's cranky. Later...
EEEEEEE Big Earl Sellar - splitred@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
EE 	"Now some men will drive to the edge of nothing
EEEE 	 So they can take a peek at the great abyss
EE  	 Some men avoid love like it was a plague or something
EEEEEE 	 So they can leave the seat down when they piss." - John Hiatt

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:42:38 -0600
From: vanvalnc@is2.nyu.edu (Chris Van Valen)
Subject: Additions to the "XTC as Coverband" list

New material for XTC to cover:

Iggy Pop "Lust For Life"
NIN "Head Like A Hole"
The Who "A Quick One" or "Happy Jack"
Primus "Wynonna's Big Brown Beaver"
D. Bowie "TVC 15"
Killing Joke "Kings and Queens"
Procol Harum "A Salty Dog"
King Crimson "Cat Food" (An Instant Classic!!)

BTW, would this be a solution to XTC's contact problems with EMI? I mean,
they wouldn't have to worry about a copyright on their own pieces if they
did covers. Maybe I'm just blowing smoke. If so, please forgive my
ignorance.

An aside to "Upside Down Phil": whenever I used the initials "TD" I was
refering to Testimonial Dinner", not Mr. Dolby. I don't know about anyone
else. Sorry to be confusing. I'll  try to spell everything out in the
future.

Finally, a question:

Does anyone in NYC(pref. Manhattan) knopw where I can get a copy of "Drums
and Wireless" and, more importantly, the cd singles (excluding
"Pumpkinhead") from "Nonesvch"? All the places I check, the guys look at me
like I'm from Mars (I'm actually from Saturn1)

Take care,

CV

Your heart is the big box of paints.

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End of Chalkhills Digest #2-28
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