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From: Chalkhills <>
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #11-37

         Chalkhills Digest, Volume 11, Number 37

                   Monday, 25 July 2005


                   in:re"Frank Hill"/5
                        Dead HIcks
                 Re: Where in Frank Hill?
                     Bozzio and Bozo
               One "e" too many, or too few
                 I'm counting out time...
                     Chalkhiller MIA
         The 60's and the 80's, Analogue Rules!!
              Mayor of Simpleton cover song


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    The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.

    Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.8c (John Relph <>).

Said the grass is always greener when it bursts up through concrete.


Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:56:32 +0200
From: "don device" <>
Subject: in:re"Frank Hill"/5
Message-ID: <007001c590ab$5197fe10$a43e4251@computer>

Dearall (inc Todd),

Personally, I translated his comment to mean a plyrythm as in 7 versus 5,
thus a cycle of (please correct me, real musicians out there) 35measure to,
erm... measure up...

MOney for me was always the example I was given of a rythm in 7/4 before I
gave up trying to understand much about music, or at least pay for doing

A slice of Uffington Horse fopr me too, please,



Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 02:03:37 +0200
From: "don device" <>
Subject: Dead HIcks
Message-ID: <007501c590ac$4efaa170$a43e4251@computer>

Me again,

ON the subject of artists discoverd too late:

Bill Hicks is someone who's career flourished and dies between the time I
left the states ''92) and well, when he died...

I watched a concert video of him on a recetnt trip to Santa Cruz (sorry JR,
didn't then know you were in the region!) and I don't know when I've laughed
so hard...

On the other hand, the concert was taped in London, so... so much for my
excuse... Just out of it I guess...


Addendum: I think I meant 35 beats, not measures, but stand toujous to be


Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:05:45 -0400
From: John Relph <>
Subject: Re: Where in Frank Hill?
Message-ID: <>

On Friday, 2005, Mr. T. Bernhardt <> wrote:
> Ain't no such
> thing as a fifth note (that I'm aware of, anyhow).

I think Frank Zappa might disagree.  That was one of the reasons he
gave up on human musicians.  Same with Conlon Nancarrow.  A fifth-note
would be 1/5 of a whole note, so one would play five notes in the same
time period four quarter notes would normally take.  But Mssrs. Zappa
and Nancarrow would take it further and do something like play 17
notes in the time usually taken by 8 quarter notes, while at the same
time having another voice play 13 notes in that same time period.
Yeah, seventeenths vs. thirteenths.  Or other rhythms equally
ridiculous.  Oy.

Check out Nancarrow's Studies for Player Piano, if you haven't already.

        -- John


Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 02:11:02 +0200
From: "don device" <>
Subject: Bozzio and Bozo
Message-ID: <007a01c590ad$58252b20$a43e4251@computer>

Sorry me yet again,

I too, met Terry Bozzio without having the slightest idea who he was when he
was a visiting artist at CalArts and I was a film student there...

Speaking of things he could (abd presumably CAN) play, is the BLACK PAGE by
Zappa, so called because at the end the rythm gets so complicated the page
becomes black...

In my ignorance, I was unable to appreciate this accomplishment at the time,
until (at the instigation of my percussionist girlfriend), I saw three
talented drummers try and play the same thing, screw it up, and have to
start again...

That said, I'd do his sis, even probably give 'Jeff Beck's Guitar Shop'
another spin before seeing another of his shows...

device out...
(I means it this time!)


Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 21:44:04 -0400
From: "J. D. Mack" <>
Subject: Hille/Hill/Elfman
Message-ID: <>

At 06:52 PM 7/24/2005 -0400, Todd B. wrote:
>John Relph once again recommended Veda Hille's "Return of the Kildeer," and
>I once again concur wholeheartedly. This is the best album from APE that
>Andy has not been directly involved in. Plus, it's got "Frank Hill" from the
>musical "Hair" on it, and that's a Good Thing.

I think the song is called "Frank Mills."

David Gershman wrote:

>Just a small clarification: Yes, Elfman did write the tunes to those
>catchy Oompa Loompa pop confections, but the lyrics were written by
>Roadl Dahl himself -- that is (seeing as he's dead), they're direct
>from the book itself, set to Elfman's music.

On that subject - I saw CATCF tonight, and I was enthralled by Elfman's
musical settings of those lyrics.  They were all weird musical style
mashups.  One song was like Earth Wind and Fire, plus something.  Another
was like The Byrds, plus something.  But I could never figure out what
those "somethings" were - only that they were unrelated stylistically to
the main style.   His orchestrations are like that as well - often straight
foreward orchestral compositions with some bizarre instrumentation just
below the surface.  I guess what I'm trying to say is I freakin' love Danny
Elfman as a film composer.

J. D.


Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 20:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Anthony <>
Subject: One "e" too many, or too few
Message-ID: <>

Thank you, Relph-san -- yes, this is meant to be
Digested, if you find it Digestworthy -- for pulling
my "Be a mensh. Squeeze a koala." post and
substituting, per my plea, the corrected version I
sent out eleven hours later.

I misspelled Aaron Copland's surname. I added a
supernumerary "e" at the end of the first syllable. If
the faulty version had run, I had an excuse ready: I
saw Stewart Copeland's name so often in the recent
"Did or Did Not Ringo Suck" thread that a synapse
misfired and my sinistral middle finger came down on
the "e" once too often.

Andy Partridge had the opposite problem when he typed
the title of XTC's 1992 release.

Ryan Anthony
An independent Internet content provider


Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 02:09:13 -0500
Subject: I'm counting out time...
Message-ID: <BAY101-F56F8EB9B04F00A948C24BB4CA0@phx.gbl>


In Vulume II, number 36, Ian Dahlberg is correct in the sense that
musicians often  listen for "what it's supposed to sound like", rather
than strictly counting it out (here comes that  Ringo thing, again)...
It got me thinking.  (A rare phenomenon.)  A number of years ago, I
performed the role of "the Soldier" in Stravinski's, "the Soldier's
Tale".  This piece literally shifts time signatures every four or
three measures.  There were some talented counters among the
musicians.  The Clarinetist suggested we might count an entire segment
in something like 67/32.  The conductor disagreed.  She said she'd
tell us when to come in and to watch her cue.  She got her hips
rolling, her knees shaking, her shoulders, elbows, and wrists
swinging, and sure enough, she had all the time signatures going at
once so we could really see and feel how to present the information
from the page to an appreciative audience-- and then she'd nod us in.
That was some fun!  Weird and fun!   Listen to River of Orchids.  And
then listen to "Elephant Talk"   or "Thela Hun Ginjeet", by King
Crimson.  And then listen to "Knots", by Gentle Giant...

All the best!


Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:07:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ed Miller <>
Subject: Chalkhiller MIA
Message-ID: <>

Hey kidz,

Does anyone have contact with Jeff Smelser from Tucson, Arizona?  Jeff
used the monicker JDSMX back in the olden days.  He had a song on
Chalkhills Children '97 and was a frequent contributor to this list.

Thanks for any info you have.  It's good to be back.

Ed Miller


Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 11:40:12 -0400
Subject: The 60's and the 80's, Analogue Rules!!
Message-ID: <>


When a couple of you mentioned Terry Bozzio and how wonderful a drummer he
is, I just had to chime in with comments about other musicians, especially
since the musicians in question have their own link to Andy Partridge.  Let
me get to the comment immediately linked to the Terry Bozzio reference
throughout the last two DIGEST posts:  When folks mentioned Terry Bozzio
and his business as a very technical drummer, I have to agree on all
points.  Terry Bozzio definitely understood and perhaps frequently listened
to all those early Zappa improvs that included those little sped-up drum
fills, and Frank was perhaps drawn to him because he could beautifully
replicate those kinds of passages without Zappa having to speed up the
tapes too much (although he has done so on occasion in those little sound
collages between songs on, say, LATHER or in between tracks on SHEIK YOUR
BOOTIE).  Yet, I often found it a disappointment that Zappa's then current
rhythm section was used to remix and "finish" the reissued album, WE'RE
ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY.  I understand why the guys were used; when Frank
got the rights to his back catalogue, the Verve material came to him
severely worn and/or damaged, with the most noticeable damage being found
throughout the masters to WE'RE ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY, an album that I
always hoped that FZ could have realized upon gaining control of all his
music.  Now, I'm not sure whether Zappa then knew about the "baking"
process for old and somewhat decayed recordings, but Zappa chose to bring
in some of the members of his '80's Mothers configuration, but to these
ears, it sounds a bit too crisp, whereas the Mothers albums of that time
were not so studio perfect in the way you'd define "perfection" back then.
Apparently, there were some Mothers fans who felt the same way, because the
CD version of the refinished MONEY was replaced by a mastering direct from
the existing vinyl that Zappa could find on the album, a neat relic save
for the fact that we have the album only in its censored form.  I know that
my assumptions of what can be done with a classic recording to
synthetically "finish" it won't make any sense to those who are more aware
of what such a process really takes to get accomplished, but I often wonder
if the album was done this way because Zappa's own home studio had limited
capabilities and, without a big label like, say Warner Brothers behind him,
he couldn't really experiment further.  I am impressed with the remixed and
finished recording because we hear the material that should have made it to
the album, but I'm such a large fan of analogue that I wonder what that
album would have sounded like if those master tapes arrived in good shape.
On this record, Zappa was toying around with (and no doubt grandly poking
major fun at) all those headphone tricks used on albums like Hendrix's
ELECTRIC LADYLAND and the like (love that "phlanging" stereo), and similar
material showed up on the now very rare double soundtrack album, UNCLE
MEAT, which Zappa actually improved upon when the album was remastered and
reissued with restored sections of the improvs that were not on the
original, no doubt because you could only fit so much on a vinyl side.

Again, I don't want to take anything away from Terry Bozzio's wizardry, but
I prefer the main drum track originally there on tracks like "Who Needs the
Peace Corps", almost sounding as if Zappa sampled sections of a Ginger
Baker drum solo.  Hey, since it is a kind of overall statement on the music
of the '60's and events of the time, it really should have remained a '60's
sounding analogue tone.  I'm still waiting for the day the Zappas allow for
a different type of remix of that album with musicians of even the present
garage and pop age to "fill in" for the missing tracks.  I'll bet any of us
on this list could name a bunch of musicians that might take the plunge and
lend their efforts on a project like that!!  Maybe even Andy Partridge
might give it a go, although he's neither a bassist nor a drummer--and, as
a lister has already pointed out, Colin does play some loose and flexible
bass riffs on so many XTC tracks.  Aw, just wishful thinking, I guess.

And, as for ideas for producer for any upcoming XTC studio effort, although
a splendid job was done on their last two APPLE VENUS albums, I thought of
Al Kooper, speaking of analogue and sometimes twisted headphone
"vibrations".  I would hesitate on approaching Kooper with the idea for
only one reason, a cover of "Making Plans for Nigel" that appears on the
Kooper "anthology", RARE AND WELL DONE.  I'm not sure whether Kooper is
paying homage or poking merciless fun at the song (a belch opens the
track), but I thought Partridge would appreciate the goofiness of it since
he's mentioned the Bonzo Dog Band as one of his influences throughout the
years.  When Kooper is good, you realize what an incredible ear he has for
details.  Yet, the 1960's studio was oh so flexible, whereas I don't notice
such similarities in the modern studio.  Adrian Belew has come the closest
of anyone in replicating the '60's analogue sound spectrum in his solo
albums.  Perhaps Adrian Belew could be recruited to do the honors of a new
XTC album, especially since Belew is a multi-instrumentalist and might
enjoy the challenge of co-writing if need be or "finishing" an arrangement
or two.  Oooh, the possibilities!!

Oh, and if I'm seriously incorrect in my Zappa assumptions, please let me
apologize to the Zappa fans and the legacy of FZ himself.  I am a large fan
of Zappa and have almost obsessively supported all his reissue campaigns,
although I do have my favorite albums, as they appeared on vinyl and *NOT*
as yet on CD, with examples being far too numerous here to talk about on an
XTC list.  I just had to say what I've said here when someone brought up
Terry Bozzio or any Mothers members, which did also include Adrian Belew,
whom I've seen live numerous times with sheer delight!!



Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:24:03 -0500
From: David Holtz <>
Subject: Mayor of Simpleton cover song
Message-ID: <>
Organization: Liberation Media


Bob Nanna's City On Film (ex Braid / ex Hey Mercedes) has done a great
cover of Mayor of Simpleton on this indie release:

THE CITY ON FILM "Little Informal EP" (limited to 200)

Thought it might be wirth mentioning.

David Holtz
Creative Director


Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:09:26 +1000
From: "Andrew Gowans" <>
Subject: Ouch!
Message-ID: <BAY103-F22467C158D15F2A236832AC9CD0@phx.gbl>

Hi Folks,

Todd - thanks for the smackdown...Ouch!

Like I said, I'm terrible at that sort of stuff.

I'd still prefer to listen to Money over SV's guitarotechics.

Signing off for an indeterminate period out of embarrassment.



End of Chalkhills Digest #11-37

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