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Subject: Chalkhills Digest #459


              Chalkhills Digest, Number 459

                  Thursday, 27 July 1995

Today's Topics:

                       white music
             XTC getting more air time in NYC
               in defense of 1st two albums
                   Andy! You out there?
                   Re: staunch defense
                        Fav songs
                   Incarnations & such
                   Fab 4 in Philly? Yes
              More Fab 4 in Philly Evidence
                Cynical Days?  XTC.  ETC.
                       random notes
                    Video Tree Update
                Re: Chalkhills Digest #458
                        Supertramp
                     PUNK! WHAT PUNK?
                Re: Chalkhills Digest #458
                Re: Chalkhills Digest #458
                     That's "WarHOL"
                    Doh!  Top 25 list
                       Dukes photo?

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:04:22 -0500
From: wjcohen@students.wisc.edu (William J. Cohen)
Subject: white music

I'm bugged. Somebody was extolling the virtues of Drums and Wires (one of
my personal faves) and dissing White Music in the same breath. Although it
is quite a bit different from their later works, I still think its pretty
gosh darn swell. I don't know which one you've got, but I have the more
recent cd with seven songs "not on original lp", most of which are quite
good. How can you not like such gems as "Statue of Liberty", "I'll Set
Myself On Fire", "I'm Bugged", "New Town Animal..", "Neon Shuffle", and an
oh-so-funky "All Along the Watchtower"? Well, how can you? This may be pop
or instant tunes, but for seventies music it beats the heck out of
Supertramp(gag). Oh lighten up! I just feel that XTC has stood the test of
time a lot better than the "classic rock" type stuff. Or maybe I just got
sick of hearing all of those same old songs back then, having brothers in
high school and all.

Ok, like I heard this song on the radio here in Madison and I now know that
its called "Rocket" and that its on this hard to get cassette by AP. Does
anybody know if this will ever be available again? I thought it was a cool
song. That's all I got for now. Keep on truckin' - Dan

------------------------------

From: Hae007@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:23:44 -0400
Subject: XTC getting more air time in NYC

For what it's worth, one of New York's strongest FM stations (WNEW) has
switched to an "alternative" format and Dear God seems to be in the rotation.
 The way I see it, the added exposure can't hurt if they're out trying to
get a record deal.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 00:04:58 -0700
From: dahaa@primenet.com (David Haakenson)
Subject: in defense of 1st two albums

>MrTomServo@aol.com said:
>Subject: Barry Andrews must pay
>
>Along with many other subscribers, I too feel that "White Music" and "Go 2"
>are best left ignored--and I feel that 90% (at least) of the problem is the
>wonky keyboarding of Barry Andrews. Wonky keyboards have ruined many a decent
>album and band, but luckily, XTC survived long enough to oust Barry and get
>to making real music.  No doubt Barry also had an influence on the frantic
>arrangements and Andy's unfortunate vocal delivery at the time.

----
accckkhhh!! I was 18 when I bought White Music and Go 2. It was so
refreshing to have THAT available at the stores when everyone else was
purchasing all that disco crap!

You really have to have been a record buyer at that time, have to have
hated the disco movement at that time, and have to have embraced the punk
rock movement at that time to adequately appreciate XTC's first two albums.

Let me tell you: when I put on Meccanic Dancing in the college dorm room,
everone there thought they were hearing music from the devil, definitely
something so foreign and offensive that they proclaimed that it was not
even music! It was so different from music available at that time. So
groundbreaking.

It's easy to slam this stuff in light in retrospect, after nearly 20 years
have passed! Think about it. When I was listening to White Music, the
Beatles stuff wasn't even 20 years old!

These first two albums were what attracted me to the band in the first
place. And I still love them. Not as well as what followed, but they were
excellent based on what else was released at the time.

David Haakenson
dahaa@primenet.com

------------------------------

From: AngryYngMn@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:18:30 -0400
Subject: Andy! You out there?

apn@strauss.udel.edu mentioned...

>Did you know there are two AOL users who claim to be Andy Partridge?

Well, then we know that neither one is...because Andy hates drawing any
attention to himself.  In fact, I didn't think that Andy was the type of
person who would use a computer for anything other than possibly programming
drum tracks.  Courtney Love, on the other hand, who LOVES to call attention
to herself, is alive and kicking on AOL. Not like anyone really cares.

-AYM

------------------------------

From: smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu (Stuart McDow)
Subject: Re: staunch defense
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:09:43 -0600 (CDT)

From: Thomas Long <tlong@unixg.ubc.ca>
>
> It's great to see Nonsuch picking up more support here

It's growing on me, too. I was disappointed (pardon the pun) at first
because I was expecting more of an edge. Once I got over that, I've
decided that it's a very fine album. I do wish that they would release
a dancable gituars-n-drums album, but I suppose that would be turning
back the clock, wouldn't it?

--
Stuart McDow                                      Applied Research Laboratories
smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu                       The University of Texas at Austin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:26:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: bradley e preuss <bpreus01@fiu.edu>
Subject: Fav songs

Hello children of the Partridge,

     I'm sure this has been done many, many, many times before, but I
haven't seen it and I'm curious.  I want to see what is everyone's
favorite XTC songs, so I'm going to gather together a top 25 list.  I
want everyone to e-mail their top 20 XTC songs and from that I'm going to
compile a top 25 list that I'll post.

Thanks for your cooperation,

Brad

"Bless you all of you pretty girls."

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jul 95 10:27:49 EDT
From: Todd Bernhardt <73364.1601@compuserve.com>
Subject: Incarnations & such

'Allo:

Several thoughts:

To Chris Orchard: I know I was being a trifle simplistic when I suggested
the "Andy as reincarnated 17th-century poet" thread and cited Donne and
Pope as examples -- your point about Donne is well taken, but given the
fact that the best postings are short postings, and that my access to the
net is through work and I thus need to write and post these things quickly,
lest I lose my job, I hope you'll excuse the facile label of "spiritual"
for Donne (I'm sure fans of Pope also would object to the label of
"whimsical," but let's face it, time doesn't permit a more in-depth
analysis of either poet, esp. in the context of a discussion group about a
20th-century pop band). Obviously, Donne was multi-faceted, as is our fave
songwriter. My intent was to spark discussion about the latter, not fully
interpret the former.

To Mike Faulkner: I don't know if we want to go down the path of rating
XTC's albums -- there's bound to be a lot of disagreement and bad feelings
created by a thread like that.

To Jeff L: Gotta agree with you about WHFS -- it is a truly lame station
that used to be great -- and would play the non-standard XTC toones. If
there were truth in DJspeak, NOW they'd introduce a block of songs by
saying (in typical, low-end radio voice), "HFS ... cutting-edge music ...
now, here's ANOTHER song by a commercially proven band from the early '80s
..."  And to Dan Smith -- I've also heard an HFS DJ (in a different time
slot) say, "That was Andy Patridge and XTC" after playing "Grass" and
remember yelling at the radio that "Grass" is COLIN's SONG, STUPID!! I
think that was their standard tag line, said after every XTC song.

To Arlo Leach: Here, here. I fully agree with your points about continuity,
and would go further to say that the mix on both Mummer and Big Express is
far superior to Todd's mid-range heavy mix on Skylarking. In fact, I wonder
if the "concept" that Todd imposed upon the boys made it a weaker album.
Andy has said in numerous interviews that there were several songs that he
would have liked to have seen on the album, but they didn't fit into Todd's
concept ("Terrorism," for example).

And now, before I get burnt to a crisp by you Skylarking fans, here's a
little anecdote: When Skylarking was released, I of course rushed out to
buy it and, as fate would have it, was able to take it down to the Bayou in
Washingtoon, DeeCee, where Todd R. was doing a solo show. I got there early
enuf to catch him going in for soundcheck, and he happily signed the album
(he seemed very proud of it, and was, I think, a little relieved that I
wasn't shoving a Nazz or other prehistoric album in his face to autograph
-- artists do like to be recognized for their recent work, too,
dontchaknow).

Last night -- the 25th -- he played here again, and I managed to catch
Prairie Prince as he was coming out after the soundcheck. Once again, I had
the lp in hand, and he was nice enuf to sign it, embellishing his autograph
with a little drawing of a time bomb! Now if I can only get the lads to
sign it ...

Still taking casting suggestions for "XTC: The Movie," by the way ...

Todd B.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:11:46 -0700
From: mgooch@scn.org (Marshall Gooch)
Subject: Fab 4 in Philly? Yes

Well, I'm dubbing a copy of this CD right now, and right before
they go into "Ball and Chain" Colin Moulding says "Thank you
Philadelphia." Plain as day. Perhaps the Wash DC show has the
same set list (possibly the 2 shows were on consecutive days)?
You can hear it for yourself. Regardless, the photo inside is
definitely a boner, as it has Barry Andrews in it...

--
|| Marshall Gooch : PO Box 23217 : Seattle, WA 98102-0517 USA ||
||     mgooch@scn.org          or        MGooch@medio.net     ||
||                 "Death to flying things"                   ||
||                             !                              ||

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 08:33:52 -0700
From: mgooch@scn.org (Marshall Gooch)
Subject: More Fab 4 in Philly Evidence

I just heard Andy say "Thank You, Philly" right at the end of
"Scissor Man." How much more evidence do we need? I believe the
show *IS* from Philly, and that the Wash DC show must have had
the same set list.
  You people probably think I have nothing better to do with my
time...and yr right.

--
|| Marshall Gooch : PO Box 23217 : Seattle, WA 98102-0517 USA ||
||     mgooch@scn.org          or        MGooch@medio.net     ||
||                 "Death to flying things"                   ||
||                             !                              ||

------------------------------

From: M Wilson <mw25@mailer.york.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:07:16 +0100
Subject: Cynical Days?  XTC.  ETC.

1) - As a punk the first time around I have to say, I thought Rick Wakeman
WAS in Green Day.

2) - Supertramp again?!  OK AngryYngMn, if you're so unappreciative of the
musical heritage of your once great nation, I'll swap you Supertramp for
Pearl Jam, Foo Fighters, NIN, Pantera and Soundgarden.  I'm never one to
pass up a bargain.  (Re: Who started the "Unplugged" tradition; it was me,
when my little brother used to play Supertramp I unplugged his stereo).

3) - I still think 'Nonsvch' is very close to being the best XTC LP -
possibly Skylarking is better - .  I don't think there is anything wrong
with 'Smartest Monkeys'; it has a slightly harder edge to it and a
'fresher' sound which I think provides a counterpoint to the quieter songs
such as 'My Bird' and 'Holly'.

Anyway now I really AM going on holiday.  That's if the rail strikes don't
mean my Sprinter's speed is reduced to a crawl.

                         See Ya,
                                 - Martin.

--
 - Martin Wilson
    University of York                    Is that my name on the bell?
     UK

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Thomas Long <tlong@unixg.ubc.ca>
Subject: random notes

 Something I've noticed not only with xTc, but a lot of bands since the
advent of the cd, is this crazed desire to fill up all 75 minutes or
whatever of the damned thing.  Invariably, what happens is a good album
is buried under a lot of half-baked ideas or material which, although
good in and of itself, takes away from the album's overall impact.
Swindon's finest clearly fall into the latter category in my books - both
Oranges and Lemons & Nonsuch could have done with a bit of prunning.
Skylarking truly is an embarassment of riches (though I would have
substituted Let's Make A Den & The Troubles for Another Satellite &
Mermaid Smiled), but I believe the album clocks in at somewhere around 50
minutes -at least 10 minutes shorter than O&L & Nonsuch, if not more.  Of
course I have no problems with bonus tracks being appended (eg Ryko's
superb job with Costello), where the continuity of the album remains.  A
few issues back, I remember someone complaining about how the mood of
Mummer was disrupted by including the bonus tracks right in the middle of
the thing... I felt exactly the same!  "Cool tunes, thanks for letting me
hear 'em, but what are they doing here?!"  Big Express doesn't seem to
suffer quite as badly because the extra songs actually compliment the
album.  Oh well, enough of this twaddle.
                                        thomas
ps from the Beatles to the Dead to Gilbert O'Sullivan to Supertramp?
   Who's next, K.C. & the Sunshine band??  Methinks we need new product
   quick.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 14:23:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Erik Anderson <aa393@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca>
Subject: Video Tree Update

Well, I still have only three submissions.  Others have promised to
submit footage but I have yet to receive it.  Therefore, I am placing a
deadline on all xTc Video Compilation submissions: FRIDAY AUGUST 25TH.

Afterwards, the compilation will be ready to go and I will post a sign-up
message to those interested.  I plan on creating a Video tree, meaning
that everyone will receive a copy but I'll only have to make 10-15 copies
to distribute to the BRANCHES.  The BRANCHES will then make copies for
the LEAVES.  For example, say 100 people want copies of the Compilation.
I'll create 10 BRANCHES each consisting of 10 LEAVES.  Of course, this
all presupposes that BRANCHES have two VCRs or access to dubbing
facilities.  But that will all be figured out when I post the sign-up form.

Anyway, if no more submissions come in the Video Compilation still
promises to be great.  Some cool live footage and live interviews form
will be combined with some rare videos (both new and old) as well as some
other rare "treats."  Expect to hear from me in a month or so.

Cheers,

Erik Anderson

------------------------------

From: HShea@aol.com
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:25:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest #458

hi everyone..

first off, if there are any XTC fans from St. Louis out there, e-mail me!

second, i recently dug up 50 bucks and bought "XTC demos" 2 and 4.  The 2nd
one is the "Nonsuch sessions" and the fourth one is helium kids tracks and
covers..
Now i saw someone back there talking about the helium kids one, but what
about the others??  Are they very hard to find??  What is this "exact"
company that put these things out?? Help!! What am i listening to??  I
absolutely LOVE the last 6 songs on the "nonsuch sessions."  "It's Snowing
Angels"  is on that "hello" disk by Andy Partridge.. well anyhow, i dunno.
 If anyone would like to trade me something for a dub of these two cd's,
just e-mail me!!

Thank you.

Holly Ann Cecilia Shea

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 16:17:46 +1200
From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James)
Subject: Supertramp

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, my very first album purchase
was probably "Crisis? What Crisis?" by Supertramp. Those Swindonian and
Welsh musicians, long time US bound, really had it back then, and the music
still shines. Not as brightly as that of Andy, Colin et al, of course, but
listen to a wee beauty like "Lady", "Lord, is it mine?" or "Even in the
quietest moments...". Luvly. Hodgson, Davies, Benberg, Helliwell and
Thompson. Not bad at all.

James

James Dignan, Department of Psychology, University of Otago.

Ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk St., St. Clair, Dunedin, New Zealand
pixelphone james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz / steam megaphone NZ 03-455-7807

   * You talk to me as if from a distance
   * and I reply with impressions chosen from another time, time, time,
   * from another time                     (Brian Eno)

------------------------------

Subject: PUNK! WHAT PUNK?
From: Nicolas.Deakin@bbc.co.uk (Nicolas Deakin)
Date: 26 Jul 95 12:35:29 EDT

It's interesting how Americans and British XTCers differ, on their views
about the first two albums. Brits general love the early material and
Americans persons don't!
I think this may be due to the USA and the UK moving in completely
different musical directions, round the mid to late seventies. i.e. Punk
happened in the UK, but not in the USA. Check out photos of kids of that
period. Short hair in the UK and long hippy hair in the USA.

Nicolas Deakin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:38:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher R. Coolidge" <ccoolidg@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest #458

  I used to be a huge Supertramp fan in the 70's;(I graduated from high
school in '79)in fact they were my second concert in the fall of '75 after
Stevie Wonder. I lost interest with Breakfast In America; it was too pre-
cious and poppy(not Holly Up On)for a boy who was just discovering the likes
of XTC. Their last album with Roger Hodgson(the "Logical Song" guy with the
funny voice)was one of the most unlistenable pieces of s**t I've ever heard
in my life. Like Supertramp covering the Air Supply songbook. Both Roger
Hodgson and Supertramp without him did some not-too-shabby stuff in the mid-
80's, but they've both been without a record contract for many years. I think
they're still together; there's people in their biggest fan base in Quebec
who are still waiting for their next album. Maybe they should move to Mon-
treal. They'd still pack the Forum.
  On the subject of Go 2: I prefer it to White Music which is the only XTC
album I dislike. Barry Andrews or no, it just doesn't have enough melody.
Go 2 I just find a little dodgy; I'd include "Mechanik Dancing," "Battery
Brides" and "Crowded Room" on an XTC 101 tape for the uninitiated. Maybe
"My Weapon" for shock value. Barry's wonky keyboards just didn't fit in X-
TC. I can't hear any room for them on "Drums And Wires." Let's not flame
the guy, it just didn't work. They work better as a guitar band with occa-
sional keyboard coloring from Dave or Andy as needed. As a keyboard player
myself, Barry's one of the few keyboard players who actually tries to come
up with original sounds instead of just playing presets. He needed a band
of his own, and that's where Shriekback came in.

------------------------------

From: 7IHd <ee92pmh@brunel.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest #458
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:09:31 +0100 (BST)

Responses to a load of things:

# From: Algae99@aol.com
# Subject: More staunch defense
#
# Once again I must come to the defense to those less fortunate; in this case,
# Go2.  I do not know why I like this album, but I really do.  I think it is a
# lot less cacophonic than White Music, and Andy and Colin sing in normal
# voices instead of in hiccups.  I have always thought "Red" really rocks.

Right on... "Go2" is one of the most seriously misunderstood and undeservedly
ignored should-be classics ever made. (He said pretentiously). The _whole_
_thing_ really rocks, start to finish...

# From: AngryYngMn@aol.com
# Subject: Lots of Sh... uh, stuff.
#
# Five favorite songs? Well I'm missing Go2, White Music, and Big Express, so
# I'm not sure if I'm missing anything...

I think you're missing 80% of my five favourite songs actually. 'Nuff said.
(The 20% being 'Human Alchemy', the other 80% being 'Statue Of Liberty',
'Super-Tuff' (so sue me), 'Seagulls Screaming Kiss Her Kiss Her' and 'This
World Over'.)

If anyone's keeping notes and recons that these are different from the last
time I posted 5 favourites (whenever that was), this is because I just made
them up on the spot. But I think they're about right at the moment (with
'King For A Day' a contender for a sixth). Anyway who cares? :-)

# TMBG's John Henry: Great album, and I notice a few similarities to O&L...

Great album, agreed, though I think I'd compare it more to the Dukes' stuff.
Just an idea. I've only just thought of this comparison so I won't elaborate
until I've been home and tried it.

AND NOW, sorry about the preceding waffle, but this is the one which really
warrants a reply. OK so it's probably at least half-meant as a troll, but
I'm still replying, so there:

# From: MrTomServo@aol.com
# Subject: Barry Andrews must pay
#
# Along with many other subscribers, I too feel that "White Music" and "Go 2"
# are best left ignored--and I feel that 90% (at least) of the problem is the
# wonky keyboarding of Barry Andrews. Wonky keyboards have ruined many a decent
# album and band, but luckily, XTC survived long enough to oust Barry and get
# to making real music.  No doubt Barry also had an influence on the frantic
# arrangements and Andy's unfortunate vocal delivery at the time. While I'm at
# it, I think I'll peg Barry with the troubles in the middle east, the energy
# crisis and the ongoing career of Kevin Costner.
#
# Gary

Firstly, let me state politely that I think you are talking complete and
utter trash. Barry's keyboard playing is awesome. Just go away and listen
to the keyboard intro to 'My Weapon', whatever you may think of the rest
of the song, this is hardly what I'd call 'wonky' (whatever that's meant
to mean). I wish I could play that well.

The reason Barry left the band was precisely that he didn't have enough
influence for where he wanted to go. I don't think he was 'ousted'. I may
be wrong, but he's too much of a nice guy (trust me, I've met him) to just
fall out with the rest of the band and get thrown out.

Personally, when I first got 'Go2' the thing I liked most about it was the
keyboards, and the standout track was 'Super-Tuff'. This jogged my memory
about Barry's solo single 'Rossmore Road' which I'd heard on the radio a
few years before, and which (to my mind) proves beyond all reasonable doubt
that Barry is, in fact, a complete genius. Maybe at times a misguided one,
but when he's on form he's brilliant.

For anyone in London who's still not convinced, pop along to the Dublin
Castle in Camden on the evening of Sunday 30th July, where you will find
Mr. Andrews, complete with accordion (and backed with sitars and digeridoos
and other weird things), fronting Shriekback, playing mostly-new material
and generally being one of the most original bands you're ever likely to
see. Trust me on this one, whatever Shriekback may have been like in the
past, they're currently brilliant. (And incidently, at the last gig they
were supported by a band called Pod, from Swindon. What's going on here?)

"Don't take this so personally Chief, it's nothing personal... We're not
here to fight you. We're here to transmit a virus... called the future."

Phil
  _
 |_)|_ *|
 |  | )||   http://http2.brunel.ac.uk:8080/~ee92pmh/
 ========

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 16:21:11 PDT
From: John Relph <relph@presto.ig.com>
Subject: That's "WarHOL"

"Jeffrey with 2 f's Jeffrey" <jenor@csd.uwm.edu> writes:

>>I know that the subtitle ("Andy Paints Brian") refers to Eno. But what's
>>he got to do with this *particular* song? Does anyone know? I can only
>>think that it's a reference to the slightly Enoid keyboard work.
>
>I've always thought the "Andy" in question was Warhol rather than
>Partridge, the idea being repetition, "Factory," etc. (Of course, it's
>probably both Andys, actually...).

Hi!

Nope.  It's Andy Partridge does a song in the style of Eno, late
seventies.  Probably inspired by _Taking Tiger Mountain (by Strategy)_
or _Here Come the Warm Jets_.

wendyc@idirect.com (Wendy Cottrell) writes:
>
>Andy is extremely sexy because he possesses the most attractive quality in
>a man - INTELLIGENCE!

I find that particular quality quite attractive in women as well.

mallende@Phoenix.kent.edu (mark allender - king of the universe) opines:
>
>i can't speak for MTV's Unplugged, but i'd have to say the real roots of
>the unplugged phenomenon lie with the Violent Femmes.

Perhaps, but they had almost no impact on MTV and the current
"acoustic/unplugged" fad.  Almost certainly inspired by the 1989 XTC
Acoustic Radio Tour.

        -- John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 23:35:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: bradley e preuss <bpreus01@fiu.edu>
Subject: Doh!  Top 25 list

Ahem...while riding home from the bookstore I realized that asking for
everyone to tell me their top 20 XTC songs was a little too much because
it'd be a hell of a time figuring out the top 5 from that...
So, instead of everyone sending me their top 20, if you could send me
your top 10 songs I would appreciate it....

Thanks again,

Brad

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 95 8:14:28 -0400
From: "Greg O'Rear" <jgo.systems@mhs.unc.edu>
Organization: UNC
Subject: Dukes photo?

Check out http://www.adp.unc.edu/~jgo/dukes.gif.  Has anyone done a better
job?  I don't have the greatest scanner stuff here; I'd like to think that
it's possible to make the photo more visible.  Who are these guys, anyway?
--
Greg O'Rear                    Computing Consultant IV, Novell CNA
ADP, Univ. of North Carolina   E-mail: jgo.systems@mhs.unc.edu
440 West Franklin Street       Phone: (919) 962-0821; FAX: (919) 962-0900
Chapel Hill, NC  27599-1150    WWW: http://www.adp.unc.edu/~jgo/

------------------------------

End of Chalkhills Digest #459
*****************************

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