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From: owner-chalkhills@presto.ig.com
To: chalkhills@presto.ig.com
Subject: Chalkhills Digest #445

              Chalkhills Digest, Number 445

                   Friday, 9 June 1995

Today's Topics:

                 Re: xTc live CD for sale
                Beatles vs XTC - whatever
                       No thugs 7"
                   XTC and the Beatles
                Re: Chalkhills Digest #444
          Hi, there, & $0.02 more on the Beatles
                Re: Chalkhills Digest #444
                      Beatles 4-Ever
             Beatles perspectives--refreshing
                          F.Y.I.
                   Various conspiracies
                Belew, Fripp, Eno & Holly
                    A Beatle Responds
                     Fab 4 In Philly
                 caps, beatles, God, etc
              Fab 4, Fab 3, Bunk 5, Flexi 4
                    Drugs 'n' Such...
      Re: Chalkhills Digest #444/This Beatles Thread
                       Tapes wanted
                      In a Rut(les)

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We'll get stuck in history.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 16:40:56 -0700
From: John Relph <relph>
Subject: Re: xTc live CD for sale

Erik Anderson <aa393@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca> writes:
>
>I have an extra copy of "XTC LIVE in the USA 1980" if anyone is
>interested in buying it.

Any idea when it was recorded?  What venue?  What city?

        -- John
--
Take a crate to someone you love.
Oranges and Lemons, the new album by XTC.
Featuring "The Mayor of Simpleton".
Tastes good.  Sounds better.

------------------------------

From: AlBall@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 20:14:25 -0400
Subject: Beatles vs XTC - whatever

I have read all the hub bub brought up by my comment that as an XTC
listener, I was insulted by their comparison to the Beatles. It was late at
night when I wrote it, and really seems like a ridiculous
statement..personally I dont really give a damn about who XTC is compared
to, I am just sick of having to read so much about the Beatles.

I don't care for the Beatles. At one time I enjoyed their music, but that
was at a time when I had only a superficial knowledge of pop music. Perhaps
the Beatles became over exposed, played out, whatever, but I am just sick
of their music, and all the attention they get... it just bores me to
death!

I also believe that the Beatles popularity has meant that many great
records produced by other artists at that time where never fully
appreciated. I don't assign the Beatles credit for "inventing" pop music,
and feel that they were only part of the musical revolution which occured
in the sixties. We should look deeper to all of the people involved in
making music at that time, and recognize their contributions as well.

I find XTC a remarkably creative and ingenius band of musicians who
consistently deliver thoughtful and uplifting music that I truly appreciate
on many levels. I am saddened when they are compared to the Beatles,
because it feels like their musical accomplishments are being diminished.

Perhaps we could hear less discussion about the Beatles (after all this is
an XTC mailing list).

------------------------------

From: Oohlalune@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 23:53:42 -0400
Subject: No thugs 7"

hi there chalkhillers~!

this is the girl who promised someone on here a postal money order for a
certain "No Thugs in Our House" 7" about 2 weeks ago.  i won't bore you
with the details of my personal live, but suffice it to say that i will be
sending said money order out to you on FRiday.  i just dont' have your
email address with me at this moment, hence the chalkhills post.

please let me know if this is a problem, and thanks very much for holding
it for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love,

Oohlalune  :)

	[ Next time, hold off until you get the person's email address.
	  Thanks.   -- John ]

------------------------------

From: nilsson@etek.chalmers.se
Subject: XTC and the Beatles
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 95 14:52:42 -0000

merely amanion (AMANION@rex.mnsmc.edu) wrote:
> Pete Best: idiot for leaving band

Er, I was under the impresssion that Pete Best was kicked out of
the Beatles because the record company (Parlophone) thought he
wasn't good enough.

And then:
> Ringo Starr: no drummer

Ha-bloody-ha.

Finally, James Dignan (james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz) asked:
> Am I the only Beatles fan on this list?

No.

Cheers,

        Par

*------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 Par Nilsson * nilsson@etek.chalmers.se
    "The future's no problem / We don't care / 'Cause wherever we're
           going / We'll soon get there." - Terry Adams, NRBQ
*------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 9:58:52 EDT
From: "Paul P. Krempasky" <krempask@eden.rutgers.edu>
Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest #444

Will writes in Yet Another Beatles Fan Surfaces:

>>     I can't understand how anyone who likes XTC can say that they don't
>>like the Beatles.  The Beatles sent a whole new standard for pop music,
>>one that has evolved over time.

        Here's how it happens Will.  First you start discovering music
during the mid to late 70s.  During this time you have no older
sibling or other person to influence your musical tastes.  As a teen
during this period bent on "rebelion" you dismiss the accepted and
popular for something that better expresses your own "identity".
During this period in time the Beatles were viewed more as
"mainstream" rock than when they first emerged.  I do not deny the
Beatles' influence with XTC and others, but the past is something to
learn from and not simply replicate.  XTC has taken influences (many
and varied as we have seen discussed before on this list) and moved
forward.  They have not simply taken a formula and churned out the
same stuff time and time again.  I forget who commented on my first
post decrying the Beatles as overhyped claiming I should get to "know
thy roots", but knowing ones roots does not mean there has to be any
deification of them.

        I have now been associated with this group for about a month
and there seems to be as much discussion dealing with the Beatles as
there is dealing with XTC.  I did not come here to discuss/read about
the Beatles, I came here to discuss XTC.  I realize that no matter what
I say the Beatles talk will continue, but I for one would like to see
it cease.

Paul

PS To try to put thing more in perspective, it might help you all to
know that the first album I ever bought was Bowie's "Aladin Sane."
What about the rest of you folks, where did you start you collection?

------------------------------

From: motero@digital.net
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 10:07:30 -0400
Subject: Hi, there, & $0.02 more on the Beatles

Hello, all. I just got here, and lo & behold, my first controversy (of sorts).
        If the Beatles had remained together AND remained creative and
collaborative (a truly big "if," I grant you), they might have grown up to be
XTC! Being compared to the Beatles, as many have noted, is probably not the
worst thing you can say about a band. ... Just can't understand the fuss.
        Just by way of introduction, I first heard XTC on KIFH, Austin, TX, in
'79, I think. It was "Making Plans For Nigel," and was an arresting bit of
pop. Fast-forward to 1984, in Gainesville, FL. A friend had a copy of The
English Settlement; I said "XTC... yeah I remember them." I listened...
listened again... and haven't stopped, except to go out & get all their
albums! When Nonsuch was released, I immediately got it, and within 2 weeks,
my four year-old daughter was singing "The Ballad Of Peter Pumpkinhead" along
with me (she's got a good ear for lyrics!). There's richness and beauty and
fun in their music, and how can anyone resist that?
        Anyhow, I'm glad to be along for the ride...
        Take care, and peace.

                        Mike Otero
                        Melbourne, FL, USA

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest #444
From: Nicholas.Deakin@bbc.co.uk (Nicolas Deakin)
Date: 09 Jun 95 10:52:19 EDT

Will,
     I don't understand? Ringo has an ego?! I think it's very much the
other way round!
Nicolas Deakin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 10:39:38 -0500
From: rpowell@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Randall Powell)
Subject: Beatles 4-Ever

 While I greatly admire XTC, and look forward to any release by them, it
shows an abysmal lack of historical and musical grounding to deny the
penultimate influence of the Beatles upon ALL of modern music.  They were,
are and will be the most referenced musicians of this century for centuries
to come.  Does anyone seriously believe that Michael Jackson or McDonna
will be remembered for their MUSIC (such as it is)?!  They are marketing
entities, as so many of the current crop of bands-of-the-week are.  XTC is
a wonderful band, and I can't imagine that they would feel slighted by
being compared to the Fabs.  From New Orleans, I am, Randall Powell

Randall R. Powell

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:50:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom X. Chao" <tqc8542@is.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Beatles perspectives--refreshing

I find quite interesting the posts suggesting that we should downplay the
Beatles' influence upon XTC.  I disagree completely, yet I find it
fascinating to hear these opinions that fly in the face of the
orthodoxy.  It's refreshing to hear these perspectives.

I point out again, risking redundancy, that it was widely reported that
Todd and the boys kept a copy of "Sgt. Pepper's" around the studio for
reference while they were recording "Skylarking."  In fact, the label
execs wanted XTC to work with an American producer, so the boys selected
Todd Rundgren, who immediately helped Andy, Colin, and Dave subvert the
intention by making the most English-sounding record possible.
TXC

I occasionally still think about posting some of the few responses to
the Chalkhills Entrance Exam.  (Perhaps there should be an Exit Survey?)

------------------------------

Date: 9 Jun 1995 09:13:52 U
From: "Bob Sherwood" <Bob_Sherwood@cpqm.saic.com>
Subject: F.Y.I.

 F.Y.I.

     I believe a Phrygian Cap is a birth control device, but I was
unfortunately unable to find anything in the current literature that would
bear this out.  It doesn't provide the same level of protection as the
Mixolydian sponge, but if you don't know your modes you shouldn't be doing the
nasty anyway.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jun 1995 09:25:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Muller <EMuller@UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Various conspiracies

     Two (or maybe more) interesting comments in the most recent digest.
 One was Mike's (friend's) speculation that all post-Black Sea music is
drug-induced.  I suppose that's possible--look, this very message that I am
typing right now could be drug-induced, for all any of you Skylarkers
know--but what evidence is there *really* to support the idea.  Surely not
"Senses Working Overtime."  That's simply a magnificent, almost Proustian
homage to the senses.  Like an impressionist painting, a cubist Picasso, or
what have you (though perhaps not as valuable).  Must we speculate that any
evocative description of sensory experience is drug-induced?  Sometimes I
look at the snow on the mountains near where I live, and think "gee, that
looks like confectioner's sugar."  And I'm not on drugs.  Really.
     The other was from Eric (not this Eric), describing a book that makes
"cogent" arguments that John Lennon was killed by a conspiracy involving the
American intelligence establishment and Japanese interests.  I hadn't heard
about this work of scholarship, but puuuhh-lease!  Is there no conspiracy
theory that is too loopy for someone to write a book about it, or for
someone to find it cogent?  Next you'll be telling me that Peter Pumpkinhead
is about JFK!
     This digest is the best thing that has happened to me since my baby was
born.  What fun!  Keep up the great posts, folks!
     See ya!

Eric
emuller@uwyo.edu

------------------------------

From: richard.pedrettiallen@octel.com
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 10:40:32 -0700
Subject: Belew, Fripp, Eno & Holly

Dear charcoal and shilling,

I agree with the post stating that Adrian Belew may end up in a "battle of
the quirks" if he played with them but as a producer he MAY (just "may") be
okay.  I'd like to hear him produce somebody established.  I love most of
his other stuff.

I don't think Fripp would work as a producer.  Look at the wonderful things
that he did with Peter Gabriel's second solo release!  BLECH.  I read that
that is Gabriel's least favorite album, solely because of the production.
PG doesn't even perform any of that material anymore.

Eno has supposedly turned down a producer gig with XTC stating, they
"...don't need a producer."  I have the utmost respect for Brian Eno and if
he said that about me, I wouldn't seek out a producer without giving it a
try myself.  I currently produce voice over recording sessions and could
only fantisize about working with a group like XTC.  I think it would be a
tough but potentially fulfilling project.  As far as objectively producing
oneself... sometimes it's hard to see the picture when your inside the
frame.

Holly Up On Poppy is about a girl on a hobby horse... "Canter never stops"
Canter is the pace just shy of gallup.  Fascinating drivel, huh?

Cheers, Richard

p.s. I was joking about the chunky soup... jeez.

------------------------------

From: Billy2112@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 15:07:59 -0400
Subject: A Beatle Responds

Dear friends,

Of course, I consider all Beatles fans Beatles. I remember reading an
interview Andy did a few years back, and he was asked what should people be
listening to these days- of course he responded "more Beatles music" or
something of that sort.

So keep using this list as an XTC forum, not a Beatle-Bashing arena. It's
hard enough being a Beatle fan these days, especially if you're under 30. But
I've scoured Liverpool, had tea with John's Auntie Mimi when she was still
with us, and learned to play the guitar because of the FF- and I wouldn't
mind trading more stories if anyone wants to fire me a line.

Bill Carroll
billy2112@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 13:16:39 -0700
From: mgooch@scn.org (Marshall Gooch)
Subject:  Fab 4 In Philly

Well, John, I think it was me who posted something about that CD.
I have a copy, it's quite good sounding, and the packaging is
good, but when I saw a picture inside w/Barry Andrews I knew it
may not be 100% accurate.
   Beatles: Most bands today would not be doing what they are
   if it wasn't for them. Like 'em or not, we'd be much less
   rich w/o them.

--
>> Marshall Gooch > PO Box 23217 > Seattle, WA 98102-0517 USA >>
>>>>  mgooch@scn.org  >>  too poor for a commerical address  >>>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:40:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: Arlea Anschutz <anschutz@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: caps, beatles, God, etc

Greetings,

        I just got my first issue of Caulkhills and I seem to have an
opinion on every subject raised, so I'll jump right in rather than lurk.

phrygian cap - Jim's right, it's a symbol for liberty.  This goes along
with 'tricolor' which is a term for the French flag ("dressed in tricolor
and phrygian cap").   The lyrics in "Then She Appeared" refer to
great events/images in history and in this one "she" seems to be
representing the French revolution.

The drug theory - I find the theory that the members of XTC started doing
drugs between Black Sea and English Settlement highly intriguing.
Their sound does change in this time period, (I like everything from
ES on, and don't really like pre-English Settlement albums) and the
lyrics become much more "visual."  I had never thought of Senses Working
Overtime as a drug-song before, but it does make sense!

The Beatles debate - The first XTC album I ever heard in its entirety was
Skylarking and it struck me as very Beatlesesque.  I have a friend who
pretty much hates all my music (mostly progressive rock), but loves the
Beatles. (Wants to have Paul's baby, etc).  I put on Skylarking and said,
"You'll like this band, they sound like the Beatles."  Of course, she
hated the album and heard absolutely no similarity to the Beatles
whatsoever. I guess it all depends on your perspective.  Personally, I
like some later Beatles albums: Revolver, Abbey Road, Rubber Soul, but
the early stuff like "I wanna hold your hand" makes me sick.  I wonder
whether some of the folk who don't hear the Beatles influence in XTC are
thinking of the early pop-crap Beatles era.  There's another parallel too
here.  The Beatles wrote better music after they started doing drugs.

"I'm an ex-catholic so I like Dear God" - One reason I got on this list
was to see whether I am the only person who thinks that the lyrics to this
song affirm, rather than deny the existence of God.  I just heard about
another wacko pronouncing that XTC is a "band of Satan" based on this
song.  Perhaps you've had this debate before, so I'll keep my explanation
short and sweet.  While protesting "I don't believe in you", the narrator
is *talking to God*, so obviously, he believes in God in spite of all his
protests.  I could go into further detail, but there's no point in arguing
if most of you have already come to the same conclusion. I can't see any
reason why this song would offend a thinking Christian. (I'm not a
Christian myself). The question of how God and evil can exist in the same
world has been debated by priests, saints, and philosophers throughout the
centuries. As for the "diamond blue", I agree with Patricia, I've always
assumed this was a reference to the cursed Hope Diamond.

Women on the net - I don't know the context of the current discussion on
this list, but I'll provide an observation which I think is probably
relevant.  I've noticed that there seem to be a large proportion of
female contributors (maybe even 50%) on the Peter Gabriel mailing list.
When I pointed this out, one of the female subscribers had the theory
that there are more women on lists where there's less flaming, and said that
she had personally unsubscribed from lists when there was more fighting
than civilized discussion.  The Gabriel list does seem to have a more
'supportive' atmosphere than some of the others.  I'll have to read more
than one issue of Chalkhills before I get a feeling for the 'atmosphere'
here.

        Sorry this got to be so long, but you've raised so many
interesting issues!  Another note: should I edit a special "short" sig
file for this list, as it mentions in the protocall?  Or do people really
care?
******************************************************************************
                                        And so with gods and men
Arlea Anschutz                          The sheep remain inside their pen
anschutz@ucsu.colorado.edu              Though many times they've seen
                                        the way to leave
                                                        --Genesis
http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~anschutz/Home.html
******************************************************************************

------------------------------

From: s.reule@firewall.edf.geis.com
Date: Fri,  9 Jun 95 20:21:00 UTC
Subject: Fab 4, Fab 3, Bunk 5, Flexi 4

Influences, you say?

I just had to surface and state that The Beatles were perhaps the best
group ever, certainly and without a doubt the most influential.  However, I
am a huge XTC fan(atic) and am equally certain that XTC is also one of the
best groups ever.  I am old and wise so you can believe me...

I also acknowledge the talent and influence, though to a lesser degree, of
The Kinks.  A good band and very clever and cool at times.

Now, the Beach Boys, well, that's a different story!  To me they are vastly
over-rated and are (were) disposable bubble-gun at best and probably not
even that.  Ack!  I can feel the flames already!  Dean?  Mike?  Remember,
as I said, I am old and wise and I know...

I also want to add my voice to the people praising No Language In Our
Lungs.  It's a truly great effort and one of the high points of Black Sea
(which has quite a few)!

Well, back into hiding...

Oh, almost forgot.  Can someone refresh my memory on this?  Are there FOUR
different colored flexi-disks of Looking For Footprints?  Three?  Two?
Thanks in advance for the info.

Steven 'Obsessed With Music' Reule
 Sacramento, CA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 18:07:37 -0500
From: lschick@magnet.com (lawrence schick)
Subject:  Drugs 'n' Such...

>his hypothesis is
>that our boys started experimenting with drugs just after
>Black Sea and before E.S

It's been my observation (since the sixties) that people who are not
themselves very creative frequently ascribe creativity in others to the use
of drugs. I think some people who don't understand creativity and the
creative process feel better about themselves if they can say, "it's not
that he's creative, it's the drugs" -- and by implication, if they took the
same kind of drugs, they'd be creative, too. (This is along the lines of
"I've got a great idea for a book but I just don't have the time to write
it.")

If Andy's a brilliant songwriter, it's because he's brilliant. Why rely on
drugs to explain it?

-- Lawrence

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 18:34:55 -0600 (MDT)
From: Big Earl Sellar <splitred@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Chalkhills Digest #444/This Beatles Thread

Howdy Chalhillbillies!

OK, I started it, I'll admit it, it's getting out of hand and I do
apologize. But still, you have to admit it's fun! :)

 Riches@Cyberstore.ca (Michael Riches) hacked out:

> Andy and Colin had a number of influences.  From The Beatles and Brian
> Wilson and The Kinks... and a number of other 60's groups... to Captain
> Beefheart.  If anything, groups like XTC should be widening our
> appreciation of diverse types of music.  I absolutely hated Captain
> Beefheart until a wiser friend of mine pointed out all the similarities and
> direct influences on XTC's early work.  Now I at least have a greater
> understanding of what Beefheart was all about.  Even if I don't like his
> music, I would never say it was "insulting" to have a band I liked compared
> to him.

Interesting perspective about Beefheart. The connection I've always made
is the fact that neither Don nor Andy are willing to be stuck in one
musical genre.

BIFIDUS1@delphi.com asked:

> Just a question. John Relph? In the credits in "The Rutles" movie?

Here, here! What's going on John? :) On another note, does BIG DAY remind
anyone else of Eric Idle's attempts to write a wedding song in the film?
(And hold it, I like Colin!)

Also,  MENTE@aol.com strangely argued:

> So comparing XTC to the Beatles is sort of like comparing the Wizard of Oz
> to Jesus or the Buddha.

Whoa, hold it! Didn't John get in deep doo-doo over saying something
similar? ;) But, *THIS* is exactly my point: can someone *please* explain
to me why the Beatles are invoked in this manner? And this is hardly the
first time I've heard it.

C'mon, they were a MUSIC GROUP! And not a particularly dynamic one at
that. The closest you could come to them being "groundbreaking" is Sgt.
Pepper's, and I've already argued that point a few times with people
(read: UFO Club/Syd Barrett/the Amsterdam-Nepal connection in late '50's).
If you invoke this sort of messianic posturing to, say, Coltrane or Bach,
then maybe you'd have a point, but four guys in bad haircuts?

Look, to compare: I'm an unabashed Who-freak, the worst, slimiest, most
brag prone music fans in the world (and we love it!). I'm going into my
17th year of being an enormous fan (in more ways than one!). I have
*never* said to anyone that the Who were worthy of any sort of idoltry
over and above the fact that they were a *great* band. I have never met a
Beatles fan who can keep themselves that low. I had an argument once with
a girl about "She's Leaving Home"'s aeolidian (sp?) cadences: her
argument, musical genius "God, they were so great!"; my argument, listen
to any fifties doo-wop and you'll hear the same musical expression a few
dozens times.

> Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain,

Indeed. Later...
EEEEEE         Big Earl Sellar                  | "The truth as you want to
EE              splitred@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca |  hear it? I can't do that.
EEEE            mersh@tibalt.supernet.ab.ca     |  You couldn't afford me."
EE                                              |  Keith Moon (R.I.P.)
EEEEEE                                          |

------------------------------

From: ZITTEL@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 20:47:13 -0400
Subject: Tapes wanted

Hello.
I was wondering if anyone has on audio or video tape any of the concerts
that Dave Gregory did with Aimee Mann? I would be very interested in
obtaining copies. I have much XTC to trade so please let me know.

I am also looking to purchase or trade for a copy of the bootleg CD called
Last Live Show. Please e-mail me.

Collectors notes: One of the most recent XTC concerts to appear on tape is
the show they did in Athens, Georgia (at a place called the B&L Warehouse)
on April 24, 1981. The show is about 75 minutes long. The sound quality is
pretty good.

A radio show CD to look out for is Rock Over London from 4/23/92. Andy has
been on this syndicated radio show several times and this time he co-hosts
the entire show. It has a stock number of 92/16. It would probably be
easier to try to get a taped copy. I can be of help if anyone is
interested.

Another radio show to look out for is called Rick Dees On The Line. It is
also a syndicated show. On 6/19/89 they featured King For A Day from their
acoustic radio tour. It was taken from their performance on radio station
K.I.S.S.. This song has been on the bootleg K-Rocking In Pasadena.

And finally, I don't see the point in trying to debate XTC vs. the Beatles
or the Kinks. They are all great bands! Andy openly admits to being
influenced by the Beatles, Kinks, Brian Wilson, and many of the great
sixties bands when he was growing up.

Feel free to e-mail me. More next time. Jim.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 17:57:33 PDT
From: John Relph <relph@presto.ig.com>
Subject: In a Rut(les)

BIFIDUS1@delphi.com writes:
>
>Just a question. John Relph? In the credits in "The Rutles" movie?

Well I've never seen this particular movie, and I really don't know
who it is, you see, and I may be a big fan of XTC, but I know one
thing and that's I'm not he.

Pardon me, I'm having a hairball.

And now for something completely different:

  **   ENOUGH WITH THE BEATLES ALREADY!   **

And by the way, I've updated the Live Appearances page in the
Chalkhills Archives.  If you have any information to add, please send
in now (on the back of a twenty dollar bill).

        -- John
--
D.A.R.E. to Keep Kids Off TELEVISION!

------------------------------

End of Chalkhills Digest #445
*****************************

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